UCC vs. SJB vs. Ponce

[medoplasty]

Hi,

I have applied and been accepted to all the medical schools in Puerto Rico. Are there any current students or others out there who can give their opinions on the three schools? Pluses, minuses?

Thanks in advance

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[Belleza156]

Hi,

I have applied and been accepted to all the medical schools in Puerto Rico. Are there any current students or others out there who can give their opinions on the three schools? Pluses, minuses?

Thanks in advance

BTW there are 4 medical school in Puerto Rico, not 3. Most of those 3 at this point are more or less the same. UCC has a "stronger" program than SJB, but SJB had an 85% match rate this year whereas UCC was in the 70's. Ponce has been on some sort of probation period due to an NIH grant that was mishandled. So more or less in that sense they are all the same. What is going to make the difference is in your learning style. Each of the 3 schools you mentioned are different in that sense. SJB is systems based, so you take all the biochem, anatomy, histology, etc. for each system at once in stead of having a full anatomy course, a full biochem course and so on.

I would assume they would have told you that in your interview??

UCC has the standard program, which is a full length class, and within the class they'll break down the systems. At UCC you are able to study more on your own, in fact it's better for you because they give waaaaay too many classes which otherwise interfere with your study time outside of glass, i.e. if you go to all classes you may not have enough time to study for them. This is however, a pretty standard occurrence in all medical schools, including the schools in the states. Ponce I believe has more mandatory classes, which can just become a pain if you are behind on material.

All in all, they are all more or less the same. If you aren't looking to secure a residency in PR then to you are they are all pretty much equal. The older the institution, the easier it is to get a residency in PR. However, there are like 400 medical students graduating in PR every year and believe me there's prob less than 60 residency spots, so odds are you are applying for residency in the states.

Which school did you get a bette vibe with?

 

[medoplasty]

Hey,

Thanks for the reply. I am from the mainland, so there are only 3 schools for me 🙂.

I liked the vibe of UCC only because it seemed more sociable and had more of a University vibe to it. Its facilities also seemed a little bit more modern than SJB. Can you comment on the general atmosphere (social, academic, etc) at UCC vs. SJB?

So you are saying that SJB gives too many classes and that UCC gives you more time to study? Do you know if those match rates are just for this year, or does SJB regularly match more students? And by "stronger" program what are you referring to?

I am basically choosing between SJB and UCC now (don't want to go to the other side of the Island). Do you attend one of the schools?

F*ck that's a lot of questions, sorry. Thanks again.

 

[Belleza156]

Hey,

Thanks for the reply. I am from the mainland, so there are only 3 schools for me 🙂.

I liked the vibe of UCC only because it seemed more sociable and had more of a University vibe to it. Its facilities also seemed a little bit more modern than SJB. Can you comment on the general atmosphere (social, academic, etc) at UCC vs. SJB?

So you are saying that SJB gives too many classes and that UCC gives you more time to study? Do you know if those match rates are just for this year, or does SJB regularly match more students? And by "stronger" program what are you referring to?

I am basically choosing between SJB and UCC now (don't want to go to the other side of the Island). Do you attend one of the schools?

F*ck that's a lot of questions, sorry. Thanks again.

That is a lot of questions, I'll just PM you to answer them

 

[HirsuteAnthony]

That is a lot of questions, I'll just PM you to answer them

I would love to read the answer to those questions, if you're willing to share on the board! Thanks!

 

[evilbooyaa]

Main question to ask - Does going to a PR school turn you into an international student? If not, then kudos on getting into medical school.

If it does, I recommend that you go to school in a non-international med school, (preferably) MD or DO.

 

[nade0502]

Main question to ask - Does going to a PR school turn you into an international student? If not, then kudos on getting into medical school.

If it does, I recommend that you go to school in a non-international med school, (preferably) MD or DO.

Agreed

 

[HirsuteAnthony]

Main question to ask - Does going to a PR school turn you into an international student? If not, then kudos on getting into medical school.

If it does, I recommend that you go to school in a non-international med school, (preferably) MD or DO.

That's only a question to ask if you're ignorant of basic geography.

 

[evilbooyaa]

That's only a question to ask if you're ignorant of basic geography.

Thanks for your input. Luckily it's not knowledge of geography that would be involved in answering this question, HairyTony. Glad to see you're still wasting internet bandwidth.

I googled it and it seems like 3 of the PR schools are equal to any other US medical school. The only warning people seemed to have was to know spanish fluently, which I assume OP does. Therefore, OP, congrats on your med school acceptance.

 

[HirsuteAnthony]

Thanks for your input. Luckily it's not knowledge of geography that would be involved in answering this question, HairyTony. Glad to see you're still wasting internet bandwidth.

I googled it and it seems like 3 of the PR schools are equal to any other US medical school. The only warning people seemed to have was to know spanish fluently, which I assume OP does. Therefore, OP, congrats on your med school acceptance.

Identification of state/country boundaries is an element of geography. Are you really going to disagree with that?

You're making yourself look less and less informed with each post.

 

[xrevision]

I would say that being accredited by the LCME is more important in this case with puerto rican schools vs geography. That is, even if they were in a U.S. territory but not LCME accredited it would be like going to school outside the country. In this case they are accredited by the LCME, however, the recent "closure/non-closure" of a school in Puerto Rico calls into question their clinical training. OP I would go to a school with a long history of getting accredited, and not the one thats currently in the appeal process and had their MS3's scrambling for spots across the country.

 

[evilbooyaa]

I would say that being accredited by the LCME is more important in this case with puerto rican schools vs geography. That is, even if they were in a U.S. territory but not LCME accredited it would be like going to school outside the country.

This is the point I was making. Pick LCME accredited schools above all else. If the LCME accredited a school in India I would recommend students to go to it (if they could deal with the language barrier). San Juan Bautista is on Probation currently, There are schools in the US that are also on probation, such as SUNY Upstate, UTSA, Marshall in WV. There are many schools that also have preliminary accreditation. However, all of these schools seem to be on track for accreditation or likely to get their stuff sorted out.

http://www.lcme.org/directry.htm

Pick a school on this list, regardless of geography, is what I would recommend.

Thanks xrevision for putting my point in more specific terms.

 

[HirsuteAnthony]

This is the point I was making. Pick LCME accredited schools above all else. If the LCME accredited a school in India I would recommend students to go to it (if they could deal with the language barrier). San Juan Bautista is on Probation currently, There are schools in the US that are also on probation, such as SUNY Upstate, UTSA, Marshall in WV. There are many schools that also have preliminary accreditation. However, all of these schools seem to be on track for accreditation or likely to get their stuff sorted out.

http://www.lcme.org/directry.htm

Pick a school on this list, regardless of geography, is what I would recommend.

Thanks xrevision for putting my point in more specific terms.

Good point. I reacted the way I did to your posts because I might be going to a Puerto Rican school and I get defensive when people imply that I'll be a foreign graduate. But I know your intentions were good so I apologize for being hostile.

(Also you did say I'm a waste of internet bandwith lol but I probably deserved it)

 

[evilbooyaa]

Good point. I reacted the way I did to your posts because I might be going to a Puerto Rican school and I get defensive when people imply that I'll be a foreign graduate. But I know your intentions were good so I apologize for being hostile.

(Also you did say I'm a waste of internet bandwith lol but I probably deserved it)

👍 An apology on the internet? Hell hath frozen over it seems.

I hadn't looked up what PR med schools were in terms of international vs non-international, so I can understand you getting defensive if you thought I was insinuating you were essentially going to a Caribbean school.

As for the waste of internet bandwidth comment, I apologize for that. Last I remember your username, I was butting heads with you in some other topic that I can't remember and can't be assed to go look up.

Anyways, best of luck with this admission cycle, and as long as you can deal with the language barrier of Spanish, then I would give a PR medical school a good look.

 

[Siggy]

Just want to make sure... because my head hearts reading this... all ya'll realize that PR is a US territory, right?

 

[xrevision]

I know a little bit about the school on probation because a few displaced students ended up at my institution. In essence, they are on probation while they go through an appeal process which could end up either way. What this means is that the school could still end up closing. For MS 1-2 the students I've talked to said that some had older MCAT scores and might have to end up studying for it in order to reapply to medical schools all over again, because transfers just generally don't happen below MS3. If your school goes belly-up when you're an MS4 this means that you might have to start over as MS3 at a different institution, as no schools will accept somebody for half a year and grant them a degree in the institution's name. The problems go on and on at a school that could potentially lose accredidation.

 

[ReeseC]

I know a little bit about the school on probation because a few displaced students ended up at my institution. In essence, they are on probation while they go through an appeal process which could end up either way. What this means is that the school could still end up closing. For MS 1-2 the students I've talked to said that some had older MCAT scores and might have to end up studying for it in order to reapply to medical schools all over again, because transfers just generally don't happen below MS3. If your school goes belly-up when you're an MS4 this means that you might have to start over as MS3 at a different institution, as no schools will accept somebody for half a year and grant them a degree in the institution's name. The problems go on and on at a school that could potentially lose accredidation.

My understanding is that SJB lost probation, appealed in court, and probationary status was given back a month or two after the initial loss. They then had another full visit the following February (2012) and in June, the LCME decided to maintain accreditation on probationary status. The appeals process is over. They are accredited and are working to address any and all concerns of the LCME to maintain that accreditation.

I'm in a similar position as the OP. I've been accepted to Ponce and UCC and anticipate acceptance to SJB (Basically... I'm jumping through some hoops to get a letter from my registrar about General Bio in relation to the Advanced bio classes I took) but I figure if they were flat out going to reject me, the would do so without asking me for this letter.

I think I'm leaning SJB for various reasons, I believe Ponce is probably the most well respected and has the most resources, and I don't feel like I know anything about UCC. In any case - I really appreciate any input thrown into this thread!

Thank you!
~Reese Cargioli

 

[xrevision]

Right, and part of the reason they lost accredidation in the first place was questionable clinical training due to the hospital going bankrupt. Not sure I would put my future and $200000 at risk here if I were accepted to other schools. Their reputation is tarnished.

 

[ReeseC]

Right, and part of the reason they lost accredidation in the first place was questionable clinical training due to the hospital going bankrupt. Not sure I would put my future and $200000 at risk here if I were accepted to other schools. Their reputation is tarnished.

But that's not the end of the end of the story. You are correct that part of the loss of accreditation was due to the SJB Hospital, however, the fact that SJB school of medicine did not own the hospital seems to always be lost. Another important thing to consider is that the old SJB Hospital (not owned by the SJB SoM) was bought by a branch of hospitals called Menonitas. And menonitas will be working in collaboration with SJBSOM. Did give people an idea - I went to interviews with my parents and we grabbed dinner a Puerto Rican couple who were friends with one of my parents friends. When we mentioned that the SJB hospital was bought by menonitas, the response was, "Menonitas?! Those are really good hospitals."

The fact that the SJB Hospital was part of the accreditation loss makes me feel better because it was a hospital that was not owned by the school and is know owned by a top notch puerto rican hospital. If SJB couldn't get their act together, they would not have been put on probation in June, they would have lost accreditation again.

I really appreciate your concern. There is a small level of concern I have as well in choosing SJB. However, it seems to me that SJBSOM has come out as a much better school due to the accreditation sanctions they've faced.

 

[evilbooyaa]

Just want to make sure... because my head hearts reading this... all ya'll realize that PR is a US territory, right?

Yes. However, having a med school on a US territory does not mean it is a lock to be LCME accredited (which everyone has agreed is the most important thing). I don't know how applicable this article is, but it is/was an issue at some point a few years ago.

http://www.valuemd.com/main-foreign-medical-schools-forum/189427-med-schools-territories.html

 

[HirsuteAnthony]

I'm personally leaning towards Ponce for a number of reasons. First, many would argue it has the best reputation of the 3 PR schools listed in this thread. It's the oldest of the 3, it's been LCME accredited for the longest, and people claim that it has the highest first time USMLE pass rate of the 3. Second, Ponce seems to be more open to students whose first language isn't Spanish. (UCC seemed kinda biased against such students.) Third, Ponce has the best research connections of the 3...they have partnerships with mainland med school research institutes such as the "Moffitt Cancer Center & Research Institute" of University of South Florida and the National Cancer Institute. Ponce gets the most research funding of the 3 aforementioned PR schools. Also, Ponce has a PhD program in biomedical sciences whereas UCC and SJB don't offer PhD's.

That said, I'm eager to learn more about all 3 schools because I want to make the most well-informed decision I can. Like Reese, I appreciate all input.

 

[ReeseC]

I sent this PM out and I figured I'd share it hear. These are the reasons I'm leaning towards SJB. HirsuteAnthony makes good points about research and PhDs... but I honestly am not interested in research or getting a PhD. I understand that it is a requirement to do summer research, so I will (and who knows?! Maybe I'll like it WAAAAY more than I think), but I didn't do it in undergrad, and I don't anticipate being a research physician.
-----------------------------------------------
More legit reasons:
- Systems based approach to learning. Rather than learning anatomy, histology, physiology, etc separately, you learn all of them for each system at the same time. So you would learn respiratory anatomy, histology, etc all around the system. I think, for me, this would be easier and a better way of learning.
- My understanding is Ponce has midterms and finals while SJB has exams every two weeks. Not only do they have more frequent exams, but all of their exam questions come from the NBME (the people who write the step). So every two weeks you're basically taking a mini STEP exam and becoming more ready for it when it counts. (Of course the drawback is that you don't get to keep test and definitively know what questions you got wrong - though you do get to know what topics you didn't do as well on)
- SJB is $10,000 less per year. That's a savings of more than $40,000 over the course of the four years when you factor in interest costs. Add another $70,000 in savings if you opt for the 5-year MD at Ponce. Obviously, this savings is worthless if SJB loses accreditation, but I really don't think they will let that happen.
- Students at SJB have all the textbooks in digital format that they share. That equals BIG savings in text book purchases.
- The hospital that took over the old SJB Hospital is very well respected on the island (Menonitas)

More superficial reasons:
- The first 2-years of Med School or spent largely in lecture halls. The lecture hall at SJB is FABULOUS! Comfortable chairs, great projector and TVs, and well air conditioned. The lecture hall at Ponce was your typical classroom. Uncomfortable desks, small space, lo normal. I would much rather spend 2-years in SJB's lecture hall over Ponce's.
- Alright alright.... we both know "Ponce es Ponce and lo' demas es parking" and "If you can dream it... it's real in Ponce" but that doesn't change the fact that Caguas>Ponce. Granted, it's farther from the beach, but in terms of flying and driving - it's better connected.
- Students at SJB have textbooks in digital format that they share. That equals BIG savings in text book purchases.

 

[rompebielas]

I sent this PM out and I figured I'd share it hear. These are the reasons I'm leaning towards SJB.
- Alright alright.... we both know "Ponce es Ponce and lo' demas es parking" and "If you can dream it... it's real in Ponce" but that doesn't change the fact that Caguas>Ponce. Granted, it's farther from the beach, but in terms of flying and driving - it's better connected.
- Students at SJB have textbooks in digital format that they share. That equals BIG savings in text book purchases.

You hit the nail on the head with the Menonitas/SJB relationship. I don't think many people realize how beneficial this is going to be considering the power of Menonitas and its hospitals in Cayey, Aibonito etc. I would be more concerned about UCC since they are still having some issues and I've heard their tuition has skyrocketed.

and btw, Ponce > all

 

[IhopeforMD]

You hit the nail on the head with the Menonitas/SJB relationship. I don't think many people realize how beneficial this is going to be considering the power of Menonitas and its hospitals in Cayey, Aibonito etc. I would be more concerned about UCC since they are still having some issues and I've heard their tuition has skyrocketed.

and btw, Ponce > all

I spoke to a student from UCC and she informed me that UCC had the accreditation visit in feb. and it went well. They got accredited for 4 more years, though its not listed on the LCME site yet.

But yes, their tuition did increase a significant amount!!

 

[ReeseC]

I would be hesitant to believe the UCC student. When the LCME visits, they compile a report and then the LCME decides accreditation in June-Ish. The point being - the LCME hasn't met to make those decisions yet. She may be confident (as SJB students are) but she simply cannot know that right now.

 

[IhopeforMD]

I would be hesitant to believe the UCC student. When the LCME visits, they compile a report and then the LCME decides accreditation in June-Ish. The point being - the LCME hasn't met to make those decisions yet. She may be confident (as SJB students are) but she simply cannot know that right now.

She told me she asked an administrator as well. Maybe she just thinks they got accredited, though, because the visit went very well. That could be it. I will call and ask either way.

 

[rompebielas]

Remember each school has its own bias! I go to RCM and encourage students to come here. If you ask people on the island the preference is almost always RCM and Ponce in that order. I moved from Ponce because you can't beat the tuition here!

 

[ReeseC]

Remember each school has its own bias! I go to RCM and encourage students to come here. If you ask people on the island the preference is almost always RCM and Ponce in that order. I moved from Ponce because you can't beat the tuition here!

I don't doubt this for second. If RCM accepted me (impossible... Because I'm not from the island) I would be there in a second! Unfortunately, the "prestige" of Ponce doesn't outweigh the other benefits i see in SJB. But OH how I wish RCM took non-islanders!!!

 

[HirsuteAnthony]

I really wish Ponce were located in Caguas. Specifically, I wish there were a place like Los Prados in Ponce. Anyone know of anything similar in Ponce??? I like the idea of living in an apartment building in a gated community.

 

[IhopeforMD]

I'm personally leaning towards Ponce for a number of reasons. First, many would argue it has the best reputation of the 3 PR schools listed in this thread. It's the oldest of the 3, it's been LCME accredited for the longest, and people claim that it has the highest first time USMLE pass rate of the 3. Second, Ponce seems to be more open to students whose first language isn't Spanish. (UCC seemed kinda biased against such students.) Third, Ponce has the best research connections of the 3...they have partnerships with mainland med school research institutes such as the "Moffitt Cancer Center & Research Institute" of University of South Florida and the National Cancer Institute. Ponce gets the most research funding of the 3 aforementioned PR schools. Also, Ponce has a PhD program in biomedical sciences whereas UCC and SJB don't offer PhD's.

That said, I'm eager to learn more about all 3 schools because I want to make the most well-informed decision I can. Like Reese, I appreciate all input.

Were you already accepted at Ponce? Which other PR schools were you accepted at, if you don't mind me asking? 🙂

 

[HirsuteAnthony]

Were you already accepted at Ponce? Which other PR schools were you accepted at, if you don't mind me asking? 🙂

Sent you a PM 🙂

 

[IhopeforMD]

Sent you a PM 🙂

Just wrote back! 🙂