UCD vs. Trinity - Any opinions?

[PT2MD]

Hey folks...considering Ireland as an option for studying overseas. Does anyone know where I can learn about any of the differences between UCD and Trinity? Thanks in advance.

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[leorl]

There isn't too much difference -

Trinity is more a closed community with a lot of history and tradition. UCD not so much, it's open-plan and further from the city centre. They're attached to different hospitals. In clinical years, Trinity students get to stay more in their Dublin-affiliated hospitals and only have to travel for placements elsewhere during the GP rotation. I think UCD (and RCSI) have to do more traveling. You could view this as a good thing, but can be quite inconvenient and costs money.

UCD students receive a masters in obstetrics ( I think) when they're done. So instead of the traditional MBBchBAO, their obstetrics portion is a Masters.

 

[pattycanuck]

There isn't too much difference -

Trinity is more a closed community with a lot of history and tradition. UCD not so much, it's open-plan and further from the city centre. They're attached to different hospitals. In clinical years, Trinity students get to stay more in their Dublin-affiliated hospitals and only have to travel for placements elsewhere during the GP rotation. I think UCD (and RCSI) have to do more traveling. You could view this as a good thing, but can be quite inconvenient and costs money.

UCD students receive a masters in obstetrics ( I think) when they're done. So instead of the traditional MBBchBAO, their obstetrics portion is a Masters.

UCD does not grant a MAO (Master in the Art of Obstetrics) to undergraduate grads - still the traditional MB,BCh,BAO degree.

In regard to travelling for UCD students, you travel to rural rotations, however, the department/hospital you are working with compensates you after with your submission of receipts or else has something already in place. You generally get to stay at a B&B close to the hospital. At UCD, your 3-4 month summers (during your clinical years) are used for doing electives back in the US. These are purely on your ownus and are not associated with the university -they do not offer 'electives' like some of the other Irish universities I gather.

 

[leorl]

even those who do "offer" electives - they're very limited. There may be affiliations, but there will be like 1 person in the class who gets it based on who was on the waiting list first 🙂. Trinity has one with Columbia I think (up to 10 people), and possibly one with JHU & Mayo. However, most students end up trying to find their US electives on their own anyway.

Anyway, with regard to the MAO I'll have to check on that. I was told this by a current 4th year student, but I don't know if it's automatic or whether it's optional.

 

[Mr. McDuck]

I believe UPenn has something set up with RCSI and UCD (or maybe it's PSU 😕 ). But, the rotations available are pretty crappy. They're all super sub-specialties that won't help you in getting a residency, like pediatric gastrointestinal pathology (not quite that bad, but almost), lol.

Anyway, don't most US places want you to be in your last year before they let you do electives?

 

[Mr. McDuck]

Anyway, with regard to the MAO I'll have to check on that. I was told this by a current 4th year student, but I don't know if it's automatic or whether it's optional.

On the course outline, it says MBBchBAO, but you could be right.

 

[pattycanuck]

On the course outline, it says MBBchBAO, but you could be right.

For sure no MAO - it is the BAO offered!

I think it is still the same for the 4 UCD scholarships:

1) Kansas - the Harry Hynes Scholarship - 4 places - 4/52 of surg (vasc or trauma), 4/52 hem/onc I/OPD (my wife had one of them)
2) UPenn - 2 places - trauma??
3) Penang, Malaysia - 2 places - general everything
4) Australian GP scholarship - 2 places

 

[Mr. McDuck]

Well, I read the PDF they have on the website (UPenn), and you can choose from like 8 different rotations. But, they are all pretty worthless for getting into a residency, really. I was unaware of the Kansas thing. I'll have to check that out.

I'll probably set up my own rotations, but do you know anything about doing rotations before the final (summer of the final) year? Can you do any between your 3rd and 4th med years?

Oh, and I know it's definitely the BAO, I just didn't want to sound like I knew everything, since I haven't even started yet, whereas you're a grad.

 

[leorl]

There are some you can do - obviously, having connections helps. For instance Billy, you could do an elective with that vascular surgeon friend of yours at any time. Even if the university's policy is that they only accept final years, they can sometimes be bent if you use connections.

For those unlucky enough to not have any connections, you may have to wait for the summer before your final year. However, there are some places which will let you do electives before final year - (ie. a lot of people go to the New York schools (Mt. Sinai, SUNYs) and California programs. However, these electives cost money and while it may be fine for someone not from the US, the thought of paying hundreds - thousands (including plane, accommodation, elective cost, etc.) to do an elective in your own country really makes US students shy away from them. That's certainly what put me off, I wasn't about to pay a lot to do an elective in my own country. But I found some of the others who aren't originally from the US did pay what I consider to be quite an exorbitant amount.

I would enquire about electives early though when you get ready to do them. And it requires a lot of internet research to find out eligibility, etc. And if you have connections, for god's sake, use them (and offer to help your friends out too 🙂 ).

 

[Mr. McDuck]

Yeah, that's probably what I'll do. He has said I can come back and work with him every summer if I want.

Also, I just checked the UPenn site again, and I guess as the electives fill up, they remove them, because now it's got a LOT more than it did a few months ago. There are like 48 some electives now, whereas before, there were probably 20. They have probably every internal medicine subspecialty (strangely, though, they don't list general (I) med.). They do have just about every surgical subspecialty, however, including general surgery.

But, they want you to finish all your cores first, which makes sense, so I doubt you could do any before your final year. Still, it makes for a good opportunity to get great LORs from well-known docs.

The application (which lists the electives):
http://www.med.upenn.edu/globalhealth/documents/ApplicationFormClinical102006.doc

The general requirements and application process:
http://www.med.upenn.edu/globalhealth/intl_students.shtml

 

[pattycanuck]

UPenn - are you specifically talking about the UCD scholarship spots or UPenn electives in general - two different things.

BTW, that is cool with the BAO thing - you've proven that you know a number of things about UCD via your previous posts so I have no problem with your comments and backing them up... and you haven't been there yet 😀

EDIT: All of the above scholarships - you'll have to apply to the UCD MFO and write a page essay saying why you want that elective.

 

[pattycanuck]

I'll probably set up my own rotations, but do you know anything about doing rotations before the final (summer of the final) year? Can you do any between your 3rd and 4th med years?

Depending on how UCD has structured it now ...

In general, most places wont let you do clinical work unless you are in your clinical years back in your home program > 1 day.

Otherwise, it is just an observership and some Irish schools may not consider those worthwhile credit and some may. It is still something you can put onto your CV regardless.

You may want to consider research as a possibilty during your academic/didactic summers and pump out some papers ... this is a big positive for some of the bigger residency programs and should get you some interviews especially if you publish 🙂

 

[Mr. McDuck]

Good idea on the research. I intended on doing some, but it would be good to get a couple publications out of it. Also, I think I'm going to do that BMedSc thing. I dunno how much it will help, but I don't feel like taking an extra year to get the BSc, when programs probably won't know the difference, or care much.

Also, that info was from UPenn's Global Health international students electives thing, so I'm just talking about UPenn electives in general, not specific scholarship spots.

 

[pattycanuck]

Good idea on the research. I intended on doing some, but it would be good to get a couple publications out of it. Also, I think I'm going to do that BMedSc thing. I dunno how much it will help, but I don't feel like taking an extra year to get the BSc, when programs probably won't know the difference, or care much.

Also, that info was from UPenn's Global Health international students electives thing, so I'm just talking about UPenn electives in general, not specific scholarship spots.

It doesn't take a year for the UCD BScMedSci - it is basically a summer research project (read as literature review) and that is it - no real research needed unless you want to do it. This takes place over a summer. To be honest, and for NA residency sake, the certificate is not worth the paper it is written on.

If you decide to do in while it med school or stay after grad, you can complete a MSc via one of the basic medical science departments (ANAT/PHGY/MICR, etc) in one year; I gather that is what you were referring to?

 

[Mr. McDuck]

It doesn't take a year for the UCD BScMedSci - it is basically a summer research project (read as literature review) and that is it - no real research needed unless you want to do it. This takes place over a summer. To be honest, and for NA residency sake, the certificate is not worth the paper it is written on.

If you decide to do in while it med school or stay after grad, you can complete a MSc via one of the basic medical science departments (ANAT/PHGY/MICR, etc) in one year; I gather that is what you were referring to?

Well, that is what I was referring to, but in the med handbook it lists it as a BSc, with the MSc being available once you are graduated. I dunno. If it isn't really worth it, my time might better be spent doing research that will lead to a publication or something.

Right now, I'm just worried about getting accepted. Everytime I think about my application (especially my PS), I get worried that I blew it. 😳 My grades are good, but I didn't really talk about why I want to go to Ireland. I kind of focused on the question they asked without thinking too much about the other points. I hope I didn't shoot myself in the foot.

 

[PT2MD]

One of the reasons I ask is I'm trying to identify the pros-cons of the various Atlantic Bridge Schools. The obvious rate-limiting factor for me is my MCAT but I've got a ton of clinical and extracurricular experience.

I am willing to shell out $75+ for a shot at these schools particularly because my wife and I have a strong affinity for Ireland, but I want to make sure I'm not totally outgunned. I personally feel I would do well at any school I attend, but getting the adcomms to feel the same...well.

Thanks for the input thus far. Any additional thoughts would certainly be appreciated.

 

[leorl]

Billy, you have an undergrad degree already, right? You could argue the case for an MSc then, if you've already done an undergrad BSc/BA. One of my friends (taking 2 years off for the olympics) is doing that, with a view to get a Masters for the research year/s. I think they list Bsc because most people in the traditional sense haven't done an undergrad degree yet

 

[Mr. McDuck]

True. I love this forum. Everyone is so helpful. 🙂

 

[Rasmustown]

Hey folks...considering Ireland as an option for studying overseas. Does anyone know where I can learn about any of the differences between UCD and Trinity? Thanks in advance.

Simple! Visit www.ucd.ie and then visit www.tcd.ie

 

[PT2MD]

Simple! Visit www.ucd.ie and then visit www.tcd.ie

Cute...but I was asking more for opinion vs. url addresses. Looks like I'm settling in on Trinity. We'll see how it goes. Thanks for the (substantive 🙄 ) replies.

 

[Mr. McDuck]

You're settling on Trinity, as in you know you're going there already? Or, are you only going to apply there?

 

[PT2MD]

You're settling on Trinity, as in you know you're going there already? Or, are you only going to apply there?

No actually just applying to Trinity. It would be nice to have the choices to make but at this point having applied to several local schools already, I can probably only foot the bill for one international school right now.

If I'm able to gather an additional $75, I'll throw my hat into the UCD ring as well.

 

[Arb]

I would suggest applying to UCC instead. School is as good (I feel it's actually better) and I think you'll have a better chance in getting an acceptance since fewer people apply there.

 

[PT2MD]

It looks like Galway doesn't participate in the Atlantic Bridge process. Anyone heard good or bad things? I've heard the city is nice.

http://www.nuigalway.ie/med/

 

[leorl]

The city is nice 🙂 a little small, but NUIG is a beautiful campus and people are nice! Maybe call them directly and ask about the process for international applications, if they do accept them.

 

[Who M.D.]

For sure no MAO - it is the BAO offered!

I think it is still the same for the 4 UCD scholarships:

1) Kansas - the Harry Hynes Scholarship - 4 places - 4/52 of surg (vasc or trauma), 4/52 hem/onc I/OPD (my wife had one of them)
2) UPenn - 2 places - trauma??
3) Penang, Malaysia - 2 places - general everything
4) Australian GP scholarship - 2 places

One of the final year students I know was on a UCD scholarship to San Diego to do a Trauma elective. Not sure if this is additional to the above four, or if it replaced one of them.

 

[pattycanuck]

One of the final year students I know was on a UCD scholarship to San Diego to do a Trauma elective. Not sure if this is additional to the above four, or if it replaced one of them.

There was a strong contingent of people (grads and students) that went to San Diego ... so maybe something new has come up since my time 🙂

 

[leorl]

california is always a popular choice. It seems some of the Cali schools do not require you to be in final year to do electives. However, it takes some money (ie. flying there, cost of rotation, cost of living/accomodation)