UCD vs. UCSD

[Buddha]

I recently got admitted to UCSD from the acceptable pool and have to decide between UCSD and UC Davis. I know that UCSD has the higher ranking and is probably more well-known outside of CA than UCD, but I have a few concerns about UCSD stemming from rumors that circulate around the boards (please clear these up for me), primarily about the traditional curriculum/high number of lecture hours and the competitiveness (gunners). Coming from an engineering background, I learn better by problem solving than memorizing. My education was also based on cooperative work, a contrast to the hyper competitive habits of some students in my premed classes. In addition, I am an older student and UCSD seems to attract younger and more traditional applicants. Any feedback, especially from current medical students, would be greatly appreciated.

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[Alexander99]

I recently got admitted to UCSD from the acceptable pool and have to decide between UCSD and UC Davis. I know that UCSD has the higher ranking and is probably more well-known outside of CA than UCD, but I have a few concerns about UCSD stemming from rumors that circulate around the boards (please clear these up for me), primarily about the traditional curriculum/high number of lecture hours and the competitiveness (gunners). Coming from an engineering background, I learn better by problem solving than memorizing. My education was also based on cooperative work, a contrast to the hyper competitive habits of some students in my premed classes. In addition, I am an older student and UCSD seems to attract younger and more traditional applicants. Any feedback, especially from current medical students, would be greatly appreciated.

First off, congrats. I don't know much about Davis' program but I can share my views on UCSD's from what I've heard from current students, faculty, etc.

1. UCSD is more like undergrad in that you go lecture, you take or get notes, and you get tested--we're not problem based

2. High number of lecture hours is insignificant cause there are great lecture notes (taken by professional note-takers) so you can go to all or none of the lctures and still excell, depending on how much of an independent learner you are

3. Gunners--there is no reason to believe UCSD has any more gunners than any other MD school in the U.S. (with the exception of Hawaii maybe which probably has less gunners than most schools in the U.S.)

4. Older students--not sure what the average age of the class is but it's not really all that young. Some of the current students I work with entered med school in their mid to late 20's.

I think what it comes down to is whether research, academic medicine, or a highly competitive residency is where your main career goals are. I'd have to argue that if any of those are your goals, UCSD should be the better choice.

The one thing I do know about UC Davis is that they are primarily known for producing lots of primary care physicians. If you're thinking of primary care, I don't think it matters too much. You might want to pick Davis if they have problem-based learning. UCSD is ranked in the top 10 for primary care as well though, just so you know.

 

[viking]

that's the stupidest **** i've ever heard. go to ucsd.

 

[Buddha]

that's the stupidest **** i've ever heard. go to ucsd.

First, thanks Alexander for the feedback. To viking, I'm assuming you're basing your opinion on the ranking of the school. Do you have anything constructive to say?

 

[viking]

not just on the ranking. I'm looking out for you buddy. UCSD will open up more doors for you, no matter what you want to do. location is better as well. rankings are not important when you are comparing schools within 10 or 20 spots; but they are when you compare UCSD and Davis. if you're too idealistic you might make some choice you regret. I wouldn't even hesitate to go to UCSD over DAVis. and don't listen to the bull**** that UCSD is only good for academic medicine. it is; but it produces a hell of a lot of primary care doctors. also many people who want to be primary care doctors when they enter school realize that this may be very boring and financially unrewarding, so they choose a specialty. ucsd does not seem to be a good school for people who are weak. they will break you and you'll get disillusioned and psycho

 

[Alexander99]

ucsd does not seem to be a good school for people who are weak. they will break you and you'll get disillusioned and psycho

You sound like you've been hitting the chronic a bit. Am I right?

 

[IndianaBones]

Hi there! Torn between Davis and UCSD? What an admirable and wonderful position you have found yourself in! You will undoubtedly get an excellent medical education at either of these schools, so your push/pull factors will probably relate to such factors as environment, location, resources, peace of mind, etc.

I attended UCSD a while back as an undergraduate, and lived with three UCSD medical students for 4 years, so I had a pretty good inside look at their experiences. (They're all in amazing, highly coveted residencies right now). I saw a lot of camaraderie, contrary to popular belief, and the class itself was very friendly and supportive of one another. UCSD is a stone's throw from some awesome nightlife (Pacific Beach...Downtown...etc) and my roomies engaged in tons of fun social events all the time (also contrary to the perception that UCSD attracts the boring, asocial cookiecutter nerd whose mommy and daddy will disown and/or dismember them if they don't become M.D.s.).

La Jolla is gorgeous, as is most of S.D. and the campus/medical center facilities are top notch. I had to get stitches at UCSD's Thornton Hospital last week (unfortunate surfing mishap) and it is the most amazing, state of the art hospital I have ever set foot in! (Oh yeah, that reminds me...no beach in Davis). I believe Davis' facilities are still under construction and you'll have to do some commuting to landlocked Sactown. From what I saw of the Davis med school, it was about 1400 square feet. SD is far more spread out and you feel less isolated and detached from the rest of the campus (and the rest of civilization for that matter).

All in all, both are great schools (as are all UC's) and since you will spend the majority of your time studying, and since studying is studying whether you are in Davis, San Diego, or anywhere else, I would base my decision on where I would be happiest spending my precious down time.

Oh yeah, one more plus about UCSD: ME as your crazy classmate! (I dropped my Davis acceptance like a bad habit when UCSD gave me the green light). As for your concerns about age, there are currently many older students at UCSD SOM, so I don?t foresee any problem in that regard for you.

To sum up: If I were you, Buddha, I'd be all over UCSD like a cheap suit.

Good luck either way, and congratulations!

 

[viking]

i do not hit the chronic or anything under 18. that was just impression i got at ucsd. it's just stupid that someone even thinks about this choice. like that one guy who chose irvine over sd. he is going to be pissed at his choice in about 3.5 years

 

[cbc]

You're speaking like a fool. Both UCD and UCI have slightly better matchlists than UCSD. If you need help reading a matchlist, I'm sure you can do a search. General rule is, compare the orthopedics, opthamolology, dermatology, ENT top university programs > those specialties at community hospitals or primary care at top univ programs > primary care at community hosp. Things can confusing because some choose Loma Linda over Yale based on location/family/marriage but you get the gist.

And if you are looking for research opportunities, you can forget it. Approximated 96% of medical students will not do any research, and maybe 1% may be lucky enough to do something considered significant (such as publication).

Go read about residency and medical careers before you make comments. And to OP, I challenge to say UCD may have a better name to non-medical university faculties (such as patients, IMGs, nurses, etc) than UCSD out in the midwest and east, just because UCD has been a science university for over 100 yrs whereas UCSD is still young (~30 yrs old).

i do not hit the chronic or anything under 18. that was just impression i got at ucsd. it's just stupid that someone even thinks about this choice. like that one guy who chose irvine over sd. he is going to be pissed at his choice in about 3.5 years

 

[CalBeE]

i do not hit the chronic or anything under 18. that was just impression i got at ucsd. it's just stupid that someone even thinks about this choice. like that one guy who chose irvine over sd. he is going to be pissed at his choice in about 3.5 years

Things don't feel the same when you're actually making the decisions yourself. You get to a point where you really look past the perceived reputation of the schools and start to look at the intangibles...I'm sure many will agree.

 

[bewitched1081]

Look at SD's match list from years before this one..i think you will see it matches better than davis / irvine. However, a match is only as good as the match it is for a person.. some people dont' want to be ENT..this last years class was more into physc. Honestly tho, Davis was pretty pathetic when i interviewed there, and very unprofessional. Nonetheless, go there..so there's room for more of my friends 🙂

what's with all this hostility?

 

[bewitched1081]

anyway, this thread has turned out to be somewhat useless because half of the posts were written just to bash ucd. ive actually come across people who seem to turn red in the face when you talk about ucd because for some reason they didnt get an interview or something when they thought they should have. the difference in reputation between ucsd and ucd is not as clear cut as some have mentioned. the point is that you're most likely going to have to go by what you know on this one. just think back on your interviews and the impression that you got from each school.

 

[Jalby]

IN defense of Davis, the first two years are set up as great as they possibly can be. It's an organ system curriculum, which a lot of schools have been changing to. It's Pass/Fail, which reduces the competition level. It has tests every 5-8 weeks, instead of every 2 weeks. It has ~20 hours of lecture a week. It has cut out some of the stuff that no longer is relevant to modern medicine. There are a lot of reasons that people could pick it over UCSD.

The biggest things UCSD has over UCD is name, ranking, location, and research. As shocking as it might seem, I would be happier at UCSD due to the location, because that is huge for me.

 

[VCMM414]

And if you are looking for research opportunities, you can forget it. Approximated 96% of medical students will not do any research, and maybe 1% may be lucky enough to do something considered significant (such as publication).

Dunno where you are getting your 96% figure from.

Over >40% of my med school class is currently doing some sort of research, and another 10-20% is abroad for various medical opportunities. Truth is, all this talk of having no time for other things in med school is pure bs. Just a bit of smart time management, there is time enough to do anything one would want.

Regardless of matchlist quality, SD offers more and superior research opportunities should that appeal to anyone.

 

[cbc]

That 96%is just an approximation with from observation not real data. Obviously with schools like Stanford that forces one to complete a research project as part of the curriculum, different students will have different experiences. Nearly none of my classmates do research before step1 during school. Many do some during the summer, but you can travel to anywhere during those 2 months off to do it. Like I said, most people, if they do research at all, will accomplish nothing significant enough (publish more than 1 paper as 1st or 2nd author) to have an impact on getting residency.

I have looked at previous years, and I maintain my position about the matchlist. The reputation of ucsd thrown around is over-exaggerated. Everyone here is only using USNews to judge reputation. I dare you compare ucsd's matchlist to Stanford, UCSF, JHU and you'll see ucsd's reputation does you no better compared to other California schools. Like I said, UCD has been a huge science university before your grandparents were born, while UCSD opened around the time of our birth. To put things in perspective, for anyone who actually religiously checks usnews rankings outside of California, UCSD is just some school that is ranked somewhere below USC in the 35s and a bit above UCD in USNews undergrad ranking, which is what most people know about anyway, the undergrad rep (try asking a nurse if he/she thinks Georgetown med is better than Washington U. I'm sure 7/10 you'll get Georgetown).

I bet most of you do not know the USNews law rankings of UC Hastings vs UCD vs NYU. I also bet most of you do not know the graduate electrical engineering ranking USNews reputation of UCSB vs UCSD vs Columbia. You throw this USNews rep around like it matters to anyone else except premeds who use it to gauge where they should apply, when this same ranking has little to do with how successful one actually will be on the residency match, medical career, or to the eyes of your patients and colleagues (at least not UCD vs UCSD).

Dunno where you are getting your 96% figure from.

Over >40% of my med school class is currently doing some sort of research, and another 10-20% is abroad for various medical opportunities. Truth is, all this talk of having no time for other things in med school is pure bs. Just a bit of smart time management, there is time enough to do anything one would want.

Regardless of matchlist quality, SD offers more and superior research opportunities should that appeal to anyone.

 

[cbc]

To the OP:

My point is, the reputation of UCD vs UCSD will have zero tangible difference on having an impact on residency, your career, or the eyes of your patients and colleague. However, if you were choosing between UCSF/Harvard vs UCSD/UCD, I'd tell you that the difference in their reputation will have some impact on getting the residency of your choice. Believe me if you want.

 

[VCMM414]

That 96%is just an approximation with from observation not real data. Obviously with schools like Stanford that forces one to complete a research project as part of the curriculum, different students will have different experiences. Nearly none of my classmates do research before step1 during school. Many do some during the summer, but you can travel to anywhere during those 2 months off to do it. Like I said, most people, if they do research at all, will accomplish nothing significant enough (publish more than 1 paper as 1st or 2nd author) to have an impact on getting residency.

Actually, my school does not require us to do research (nor does Stanford, afaik; Stanford folks often take 5 yrs to finish med school because they CHOOSE to do research projects, not because they must). It is my experience that many students at top 20 schools choose to do some research during med school, whether or not their schools require it as part of the curriculum. Also, as far as bolstering CV for residency, it is not necessary to have published MORE than 1 paper, though that would certainly be nice. Go to the residency forums here, especially the more competitive ones; many have said that any research is better than none (and having published is better than not). Plus, for some people (me?), the process of research is enjoyable enough even without the added benefits of bettering residency chances.

Also, while it's true that you can do research anywhere during the summer, it is often preferable to do research at your own institution should you be unable to complete the research during the summer. This way, it'll be more convenient to complete your research at a later time, especially if your med school offers research time as electives (mine does).

I have looked at previous years, and I maintain my position about the matchlist. The reputation of ucsd thrown around is over-exaggerated. Everyone here is only using USNews to judge reputation. I dare you compare ucsd's matchlist to Stanford, UCSF, JHU and you'll see ucsd's reputation does you no better compared to other California schools. Like I said, UCD has been a huge science university before your grandparents were born, while UCSD opened around the time of our birth. To put things in perspective, for anyone who actually religiously checks usnews rankings outside of California, UCSD is just some school that is ranked somewhere below USC in the 35s and a bit above UCD in USNews undergrad ranking, which is what most people know about anyway, the undergrad rep (try asking a nurse if he/she thinks Georgetown med is better than Washington U. I'm sure 7/10 you'll get Georgetown).

Actually UCSD has quite an international reputation (in parts of Asia at least, specifically Japan, Taiwan, and Singapore) in the biological sciences, specifically molecular bio and neurosciences. The same cannot be said of UCD. This is reputation for scientific research though, not medical education. And you are right, UCSD's matchlist cannot compare with UCSF or JHU, but no one was claiming that to be the case in the first place.

I bet most of you do not know the USNews law rankings of UC Hastings vs UCD vs NYU. I also bet most of you do not know the graduate electrical engineering ranking USNews reputation of UCSB vs UCSD vs Columbia. You throw this USNews rep around like it matters to anyone else except premeds who use it to gauge where they should apply, when this same ranking has little to do with how successful one actually will be on the residency match, medical career, or to the eyes of your patients and colleagues (at least not UCD vs UCSD).

NYU is very well known in law, dunno about the three engineering programs you've listed.

 

[VCMM414]

To the OP:

My point is, the reputation of UCD vs UCSD will have zero tangible difference on having an impact on residency, your career, or the eyes of your patients and colleague. However, if you were choosing between UCSF/Harvard vs UCSD/UCD, I'd tell you that the difference in their reputation will have some impact on getting the residency of your choice. Believe me if you want.

Sorry didn't see this before posting my last post. I think this is definitely true. Reputation differences (as far as residency goes) are small enough here that it shouldn't be the deciding factor between these two schools. However, research opportunities are definitely more abundant at UCSD (especially in certain biological fields), which may or may not be important to the OP.

 

[cbc]

And in response to kenshinoro's statement to look at past years, I'll give concrete information/data. In the 2003 match, 7/92 UCI med graduates successfully completed the early match. Not only is that higher than UCSD, but that is the highest # in the entire California state that year.

So, viking, students from which school(s) are actually regretting after 3.5 years?

(The early match is for highly competitive residencies, and it is early so that if you are not accepted you will still have time to scramble and/or rank less competitive specialties).

 

[VCMM414]

And in response to kenshinoro's statement to look at past years, I'll give concrete information/data. In the 2003 match, 7/92 UCI med graduates successfully completed the early match. Not only is that higher than UCSD, but that is the highest # in the entire California state that year.

So, viking, students from which school(s) are actually regretting after 3.5 years?

(The early match is for highly competitive residencies, and it is early so that if you are not accepted you will still have time to scramble and/or rank less competitive specialties).

I am nitpicking here... but there are 5 specialties to the early match, one of which is neurology. It is definitely not a competitive match.

 

[cbc]

I have to agree with VCMM that one probably can benefit more from being at UCSD for research opportunities. At the same time, both UCD and UCSD have nationally acclaimed researchers, so picking UCD does not limit one to the having less competent PIs. As a medical student, you can easily obtain a research position with the Chair of cardiology, who is probably more competent and famous than most researchers at UCSD. However, UCSD does have more numerous famous researchers than UCD on average.

I'm here responding because I feel sad when some people pick schools based on ill-informed decisions. Either UCD or UCSD are superb places to be. However, if you choose UCSD or UCD based on your own personal preference, at least base the decision on correct reasons. If one says, location matters to me more and I like the urban SD, so I select UCSD, then that's a perfect choice. But to say, I want to match better so I want to go to UCSD regardless that my family is in Sacramento and I love it there, is an ill-informed decision, and it'll be sad to see someone make that choice.

 

[size_tens]

And in response to kenshinoro's statement to look at past years, I'll give concrete information/data. In the 2003 match, 7/92 UCI med graduates successfully completed the early match. Not only is that higher than UCSD, but that is the highest # in the entire California state that year.

So, viking, students from which school(s) are actually regretting after 3.5 years?

(The early match is for highly competitive residencies, and it is early so that if you are not accepted you will still have time to scramble and/or rank less competitive specialties).

Are you trying to imply that because of this statistic UCI is the best med school in California? The quality of the match list at UCI is nowhere near those of the more highly ranked Cali schools. I agree that the quality of medical education probably isn't that different between UCSD and UCD. I'm a current undergrad at UCSD and one of the med school professors actually told me that he thinks the medical education at UCSD isn't that great. In fact he compared it quite closely to his alma mater, SUNY Buffalo. For me the deciding factors would come down to research oppurtunities and location. I don't think anyone would be foolish enough to argue that Davis/Sac are in any way better than San Diego. Someone mentioned that Davis is an older school. So what? UCSD is a far superior institution for scientific research. Thanks to its abundant NIH research funding UCSD is a top 20 med school according to US News, and Davis just barely cracked the top 50 this year. Of course if location and reserach aren't deciding factors for the OP, then it probably wouldn't make much of a difference either way.

 

[jlee9531]

i know of many people deciding between these two schools and the environment at davis is such that there are students that choose davis over sd, irvine, la and even sf. even in the current group, i met someone who chose davis over sf because he is more of a non-trad and felt that he would do best at davis instead of sf.

if you are concerned with reputation, davis's rep will grow over the years. just like how usc's rep has grown over the years as well. the admin at davis are doing what they can to make their school the best it can be. i believe the environment at davis is an amazing thing and its a strong thing to fit in somewhere so that you can flourish as a student.

so in the end, all im saying is...its not a sin to pick davis or sd. its not that rare. its where you find the best fit.

 

[cbc]

I am implying UCD and UCI have slightly better matchlists than UCSD, yet with inconsistencies between years and student interests all 3 are more like the same. That is all.

Someone "foolish" who would select Sacramento over SD would be people who grew up or have family in Sacramento/Bay Area, or certain people from Fresno or Merced area who enjoy the rural over urban living.

First of all, we were speaking of "reputation" and age matters in that sense. Second, it is not thanks to the NIH funding UCSD is high ranked on USNews. There are other factors USNews particularly picked to rank, such as scores of applicants, clinical reputation of institution, etc etc. Even the consideration of NIH funding is flawed, for it is not NIH funding/sq ft of lab but total NIH. If JHU and UCSF were anywhere the size of Havard Medical School's 16 independently affiliated hospitals then Harvard wouldn't even come close to being the top. Stop referring to USNews rankings as though that's all you know, not even the methodology. If UCSD is so much farther superior, why is their undergraduate ranking not much higher than UCD (both are more known for their sciences by the way)? Will you say selecting UCSD over UCD for undergrad will give you far higher advantage in research opportunities (if you say yes, you are lying, and the OP knows this)? This is becoming a discussion of USNews rankings, which is stupid.

VCMM, are you arguing for the sake of arguing? Neurology is the only non-competitive speciality. The rest are ENT, ophthamology, neurosurgery, urology, plastic surgery, and some consider radiation oncology as well. Let's just say not many students from any UC picked neurology, which is true.

Are you trying to imply that because of this statistic UCI is the best med school in California? The quality of the match list at UCI is nowhere near those of the more highly ranked Cali schools. I agree that the quality of medical education probably isn't that different between UCSD and UCD. I'm a current undergrad at UCSD and one of the med school professors actually told me that he thinks the medical education at UCSD isn't that great. In fact he compared it quite closely to his alma mater, SUNY Buffalo. For me the deciding factors would come down to research oppurtunities and location. I don't think anyone would be foolish enough to argue that Davis/Sac are in any way better than San Diego. Someone mentioned that Davis is an older school. So what? UCSD is a far superior institution for scientific research. Thanks to its abundant NIH research funding UCSD is a top 20 med school according to US News, and Davis just barely cracked the top 50 this year. Of course if location and reserach aren't deciding factors for the OP, then it probably wouldn't make much of a difference either way.

 

[VCMM414]

VCMM, are you arguing for the sake of arguing? Neurology is the only non-competitive speciality. The rest are ENT, ophthamology, neurosurgery, urology, plastic surgery, and some consider radiation oncology as well. Let's just say not many students from any UC picked neurology, which is true.

😛 Sorry about that. I said I was nitpicking. I don't think rad oncology is an early match though, nor is urology. I thought early match = SF Matching Program, or is there another one? SF Match consists of neuro, neurosurg, ophthal, otolaryn, and plastics.

 

[cbc]

Urology has its own early match that is independent of the sf match or NRMP. Early match is considered to be matches that are not NRMP and results are announced early. I don't know the intricacies of the radiation oncology match, but I know they are also independent of NRMP.

Seriously though, to OP. Pick UCD vs UCSD med like you'd pick them for undergrad. Sincerely, as I look back that's how I would be weighing these medical schools. The grapevine souljah advised in a previous thread to ask 4th yrs, and I agree with him. Listen to senior college students regarding picking undergrads over other high school students. The same concept applies here: listen to 4th yrs/interns regarding picking med school over other college students.

😛 Sorry about that. I said I was nitpicking. I don't think rad oncology is an early match though, nor is urology. I thought early match = SF Matching Program, or is there another one?

 

[voltron77]

I recently got admitted to UCSD from the acceptable pool and have to decide between UCSD and UC Davis. I know that UCSD has the higher ranking and is probably more well-known outside of CA than UCD, but I have a few concerns about UCSD stemming from rumors that circulate around the boards (please clear these up for me), primarily about the traditional curriculum/high number of lecture hours and the competitiveness (gunners). Coming from an engineering background, I learn better by problem solving than memorizing. My education was also based on cooperative work, a contrast to the hyper competitive habits of some students in my premed classes. In addition, I am an older student and UCSD seems to attract younger and more traditional applicants. Any feedback, especially from current medical students, would be greatly appreciated.

Congrats Buddha on getting into both UC Davis and UCSD. First off, go with what is right for you. Both are great schools and you will get a great education at either UCSD or UC Davis. Second, try talking to students from both schools if you can and compare their experiences and thoughts. Best of luck to you at either UCSD or UC Davis!!!

 

[Buddha]

I never intended for this thread to get so heated, but I still appreciate all the feedback.

To address some of the things mentioned before: I interviewed in both schools in early Sep., so in the whirlwind of the application process, I only faintly remember my impressions of the schools. In addition, at both schools, students were preparing for exams, so I only met one at UCSD and none at UCD. I was hoping to get more feedback from current students at UCSD (I know a few at UCD, and all have been very happy with the program) to dispel some of the rumors I have heard.

I have a pretty good idea that I want to do a surgery specialty (most likely orthopedics). Although I'm not crazy about doing research (I have 4+ years under my belt in engineering), I realize that I may have to do some clinical research to be competitive in my field. My impression is that UCSD does have the advantage in opportunities.

I also mentioned that I am an older applicant and Davis seems to have an environment more suitable for nontraditional applicants than UCSD. In addition, other than location, I really haven't heard any complaints about UCD. (BTW, jlee, I met you at the 2nd visit at Davis. My friend and I were the two grumpy old applicants who sat at the same table as you and showed up a little drunk to the pizza event -- it was my friend's birthday.)

In terms of location, SD is definitely more appealing than Davis for me. However, according to the UCSD student I met at my interview, they really didn't have all that much time to enjoy SD (please let me know if it's otherwise). I also have some family in the Bay Area and none in southern CA.

 

[LoneCoyote]

I'll tell you a few reasons why I am very happy to be going to Davis in the fall. I am not going to comment un UCSD because I did not apply there. It was not somewhere that I saw myself being happy for the next 4 years. San Diego is a nice place to visit but I could not see myself happy living there. Not that Davis/Sac is the greatest place in the world, but I like being an hour from the Bay Area where my family and friends are, and to have easy access to hiking, biking, and all of the stuff that Tahoe has to offer if I want to drive a bit in the other direction. Davis is a true college town and I think it will be a very chill, friendly place to be in school.

What I liked about Davis:
- the older, more non-trad feeling to the student body
- the comraderie that seemed to exist between the students
- the student run clinics
- the fact that the 4th years who spoke to us at second look had really good things to say about the clinical training they had received and felt that they were better prepared than other students they had seen on away rotations
- the administration which seems focused on growing Davis' rep nationwide
- the med center is awesome and you see all the stuff that comes in from north of Oakland to the Oregon border
- the P/F curriculum
- the new college system they are implementing to promote more unity between the classes and with faculty
- the match list looked good and it is NOT all primary care; many people match well in specialties
- research opportunities seem to be there if you look for them and it seems there is less competition to get them than at other school from what the students told me

In the end I don't think you can go wrong with either one. Go where you will be happy. Davis' reputation is very good and when my parents have mentioned where I am going to doctor friends of theirs in the Northeast and in San Francisco their responses have been "that's a great school." So I really do not think that is a liability as some of the other posters have made it out to be. Good luck with your decision 🙂

 

[Eraserhead]

This thread is exhausting to read.

In the end, I just felt like UCSD would turn me into a bitter, unhappy, souless med student whereas Irvine would leave me a well-matched med student with a big smile on my face (and with interests and accomplishments unrelated to med school).

Talk to students at both Davis and SD, at SD on interview day they hand you two students and the rest don't or won't really comment on the school. You have to go out of your way to get the story and a variety of opinions. Everyone was studying at the lunch at SD, they often have exams every 1-2 weeks which is more often than most medical schools.

I would choose based on location and interest in research career and fit with the environment, not rankings.

 

[cbc]

Jalby, if you had between USC and UCSD only, which would you pick, and why? Just curious. By the way, the UC tuition increase has recently been established to be 30% for next academic year, less than planned/speculated.

 

[VCMM414]

I have a pretty good idea that I want to do a surgery specialty (most likely orthopedics). Although I'm not crazy about doing research (I have 4+ years under my belt in engineering), I realize that I may have to do some clinical research to be competitive in my field. My impression is that UCSD does have the advantage in opportunities.

I kinda wonder about this. UCSD is known for its strong BASIC SCIENCE research, but as far as clinical research goes, I dare say that both Davis and SD will offer you plenty of opportunities. I don't think SD has the clear upperhand here.

 

[Jalby]

In the 2003 match, 7/92 UCI med graduates successfully completed the early match. Not only is that higher than UCSD, but that is the highest # in the entire California state that year.

You guys don't hold the claim of having the highest number of early matches that year. In 2003 we had 16/150 match early, a higher % and number. I'm sure UCSF or Stanford beat both of us.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=64194

PS, I had mislabeled the title of the thread. It is 2003 and not 2004.

 

[Jalby]

Jalby, if you had between USC and UCSD only, which would you pick, and why? Just curious. By the way, the UC tuition increase has recently been established to be 30% for next academic year, less than planned/speculated.

USC without a question. I know a ton about both schools, and UCSD's location is better than USC's, but I wouldn't be happy at UCSD with all that they have to go through. But on a side note, I probably fit into the catagory of people that would do better in a grading first two years as far as class rank. But USC also matches better than UCSD, and I wouldn't want to be in a place that is as conservative as UCSD. My current rankings of California schools right now, if I got into them all and was applying this year is:

UCSF>UCLA>Stanford=USC>UCI>UCD>UCSD>Loma Linda

UCSF is #1 because it's the best in almost every way
UCLA I would choose because of location and the new curriculum they have and cost. Their third and fourth year rotations arn't that great, though.
Stanford I would choose solely on name. I don't like the location or the facilities, and USC could top it because I'm not sure the name would accomplish what I want from a school.
USC for many reasons listed by me
UCI over UCD because I like So-cal a lot. UCI also trains you real well for the boards.
UCD because the was they school is set up is almost as good as you can do the first two years (same for UCSF, USC, and probably UCLA)
UCSD I would choose for location only
Loma Linda I would choose to stay in Cali. I would probably get kicked out for fornication outside of marriage and EtOH, though.

 

[Eraserhead]

I kinda wonder about this. UCSD is known for its strong BASIC SCIENCE research, but as far as clinical research goes, I dare say that both Davis and SD will offer you plenty of opportunities. I don't think SD has the clear upperhand here.

I agree on this point too!

 

[cbc]

Surprised Stanford and USC are at the same level to you. The facilities are probably equal, but Stanford's matchlist is much better, not sure if it's the students or the school reputation that caused it though.

You can assume I attend UCI, but about their early match, I read a claim by someone previously and just believed it. I actually wasn't certained whether that was true or not, and didn't even know USC has that many early matches.

 

[Jalby]

I was shocked USC did that well that year, too. I'd choose USC over Stanford because I love Los Angeles, and USC would garuntee me a spot here whereas Stanford wouldn't.

 

[cbc]

I'll have to agree and say you are correct about the latter.

I was shocked USC did that well that year, too. I'd choose USC over Stanford because I love Los Angeles, and USC would garuntee me a spot here whereas Stanford wouldn't.

 

[dentate_gyrus]

I agree on this point too!

Because UCSD is home to several of the largest ever NIH awards for clinical investigation I was curious about this assertion. I did a search on pubmed.
Assuming many clinical publications would have the word "clinical" in them i searched for "clinical and uc davis" as well as "clinical and ucsd".
Davis = 22 hits
UCSD = 640 hits

This obviously is not the whole story, but it is probably representative.
Davis is a good school on a national level, but in broad terms of clinical and basic research it really is not in the same league as UCSD, or UCSF, USC and UCLA. And will not have chance to meaningfully compete for the next decade or so. That just isn't what UCD does well right now. As long as UCD keeps poaching faculty from other UC medical schools, bringing in the outside talent once it has developed in a more competitive setting (i.e. Dr Wilkes from UCLA), they will continue to improve.
UCD didn't work as a term because apparently the university college of dublin outproduces uc davis in contributions to medical research (check the first 20 hits).
Incidentally, I liked UC Davis when I interviewed there. It did not seem that the horizons were as broad there. The new med school facilities will be exceptional when they are built.

 

[VCMM414]

Because UCSD is home to several of the largest ever NIH awards for clinical investigation I was curious about this assertion. I did a search on pubmed.
Assuming many clinical publications would have the word "clinical" in them i searched for "clinical and uc davis" as well as "clinical and ucsd".
Davis = 22 hits
UCSD = 640 hits

This obviously is not the whole story, but it is probably representative.
Davis is a good school on a national level, but in broad terms of clinical and basic research it really is not in the same league as UCSD, or UCSF, USC and UCLA. And will not have chance to meaningfully compete for the next decade or so. That just isn't what UCD does well right now. As long as UCD keeps poaching faculty from other UC medical schools, bringing in the outside talent once it has developed in a more competitive setting (i.e. Dr Wilkes from UCLA), they will continue to improve.
UCD didn't work as a term because apparently the university college of dublin outproduces uc davis in contributions to medical research (check the first 20 hits).
Incidentally, I liked UC Davis when I interviewed there. It did not seem that the horizons were as broad there. The new med school facilities will be exceptional when they are built.

Wow. Seems like I really underestimated the extent of clinical research at ucsd. However, like you said, this method may not show the entire picture. A quick search under "clinical and ucsf" yields 1152 hits, while "clinical and ucla" yields 3653. I don't think anyone is ready to argue that ucla does more, or better, clinical research than ucsf.

 

[dentate_gyrus]

Wow. Seems like I really underestimated the extent of clinical research at ucsd. However, like you said, this method may not show the entire picture. A quick search under "clinical and ucsf" yields 1152 hits, while "clinical and ucla" yields 3653. I don't think anyone is ready to argue that ucla does more, or better, clinical research than ucsf.

actually some departments at ucla were notably better than ucsf in the recent past. a few years back ucla's clinical research publications were among the most referenced in the country. greatly eclipsing ucsf in cardiology (if I recall).

from the numbers i think an overestimation of uc davis' capabilities was made, rather than underestimation of ucsd.

 

[Jalby]

I did a search for "michael jackson and clinical" and it beat the **** out of UCLA and UCSF with 210,000 hits. Maybe he is doing some good stuff at the neverland ranch.

 

[jlee9531]

I did a search for "michael jackson and clinical" and it beat the **** out of UCLA and UCSF with 210,000 hits. Maybe he is doing some good stuff at the neverland ranch.

x1000!!!

yeah can't really go by hits on a search engine.

 

[madcadaver]

At the same time, both UCD and UCSD have nationally acclaimed researchers, so picking UCD does not limit one to the having less competent PIs. As a medical student, you can easily obtain a research position with the Chair of cardiology, who is probably more competent and famous than most researchers at UCSD. However, UCSD does have more numerous famous researchers than UCD on average.

As CBC points out, UCD has extremely renowned faculty members in general medicine, interventional and preventative cardio, FP, many surgical specialties (particularly general surg, vascular, and onc), optho, and these are just off the top of my head. There are certainly a lot more.

To choose against UCD based on the fact that quality research opportunities would be quite ridiculous. Like any medical school, if you want to do research you find something that you're interested in and you ask around about it, I've never heard of a faculty member at UCD not want to have a med student involved in their lab or clinical research. I didn't get significantly involved in research until my fourth year but found it quite easy to sign onto a project in my area of interest and am now looking forward to first-author publications and conference presentations.

A more tangible difference between med schools is the extent to which students are encouraged or forced to get involved in research. UCD has traditionally not done much forcing, with its primary care background. However, in the last few years the level of encouragement has grown a lot and is in my opinion becoming a more well-rounded med school (see our 2004 match list for evidence to this fact). Furthermore, UCD is considering some kind of required "senior research project". I have no idea whether this will pan out or not.

Maybe someone from UCSD can comment further on how this is handled there, as I don't know anything about it.

Good luck with your choice and for heaven's sake don't let US News or some yahoos on a message board make it for you.

MadC

 

[Buddha]

One last bump... I have to make a decision today and was hoping I could get some last opinions. I just visited UCSD this weekend and it resolved my issues with the competition within the school (which didn't seem nearly as bad as I had thought) and the number of lecture hours (since many students seem to be quite selective about which ones they attend). I'm still concerned about the differences in curriculum and how the 3rd and 4th years compare at the two schools.

 

[Eraserhead]

One last bump... I have to make a decision today and was hoping I could get some last opinions. I just visited UCSD this weekend and it resolved my issues with the competition within the school (which didn't seem nearly as bad as I had thought) and the number of lecture hours (since many students seem to be quite selective about which ones they attend). I'm still concerned about the differences in curriculum and how the 3rd and 4th years compare at the two schools.

Hmmm, when I visited SD I realized these two things as well. Its not as bad as the rumors make it out to be, but the reality of the situation is I think you really do have to learn more uneccessary material, mandatory lectures or not you still have that hour of lecture to memorize (and they seem to really focus on memorize and test but not much else). Most students I talked to did seem concerned about the class means being too low, or about their scores being to low to keep up with the means, and similar issues and this didn't seem to be the case at other medical schools (even others with the H/P/F system). Personally, I don't want to have to care THAT much about the mean score, I would sort of like to just worry about myself next year.

Is Davis P/F? I don't know about Davis's curriculum but I would imagine it to be very different. What's the daily schedule like? What do students say about their stress level and how often they have tests?

 

[LoneCoyote]

Is Davis P/F? I don't know about Davis's curriculum but I would imagine it to be very different. What's the daily schedule like? What do students say about their stress level and how often they have tests?

Davis is pass/fail. It goess to H/P/F for the clinical years. There were 2 exam blocks per quarter, I believe. Overall, the students seemed very unstressed, though I am sure stress level rises a bit at exam time.

Here's a link to the curriculum:
http://medocs.ucdavis.edu/curriculum/index.cfm

It sounded good to me, a mix of PBL and traditional. I have more specific notes on the hours at home, but that probably won't help you make a decision today.

As for the clinical experiences the 4th years said they felt they were better prepared than students at other schools when they went out on away rotations. They said they usually carried more patients than students at other schools and, as a result, felt well prepared for residency. They said the clinical faculty was good. No one really had any complaints other than that 3rd year is tough, but that is true anywhere. The student who led my tour at second look said that working in the student clinics the first two years made her feel much more prepared and comfortable when she started her 3rd year. You also have the option of doing some of your third year rotations at other hospitals if you want, like at Travis Air Force base, the VA, and at Kaiser in Sacto, I believe.

 

[Jalby]

Davis's first two years are set up great. All other things aside, Davis should be able to get you a better board score in a much more relaxed environment than you would get at UCSD.

 

[UCSBMed1]

Davis is pass/fail. It goess to H/P/F for the clinical years. There were 2 exam blocks per quarter, I believe. Overall, the students seemed very unstressed, though I am sure stress level rises a bit at exam time.

You can say that again! Neuro! Endo! Path! Arghh...

 

[Eraserhead]

One more thing about UCSD, I think when you are considering the supposed environment there, consider what type of person you are and how you respond to your environment Personally, I know myself to be pretty cupable and succeptible to the moods/stress of classmates around me and I feel like I'd get caught up in the competition if it is there. If everyone else in my class is worried about a test, I'm going to get worried too. If you are stronger in this way, and can do your own thing regardless of the neuroticism of the masses I'd say it probably won't affect your happiness level there. To state the obvious again, its all what you make of it... and I sort of decided I probably wouldn't make the best out of what SD offers.