UCI - Cardiology Scandal

[lub-dub]

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Any recent news on the unlicensed/uncertified card chief Narula at UCI? Is he still there?

 

[ubuntu]

Any recent news on the unlicensed/uncertified card chief Narula at UCI? Is he still there?

Wish I'd known about this before I applied there. I would appreciate if folks can share information about other such scandals, which, unsuspecting and uninformed guys like me, may not know about.

 

[atsai3]

Wish I'd known about this before I applied there. I would appreciate if folks can share information about other such scandals, which, unsuspecting and uninformed guys like me, may not know about.

This is not new. The OC Register published its "UCI cardiology heads uncertified" story last year (12/22/05).

The men who run UCI's cardiology program, Jagat Narula and Mani Vannan, have not been certified by the American Board of Internal Medicine either in internal medicine or in cardiology. Most cardiologists meet those prerequisites before setting up a practice.

In addition, neither Narula, the division chief, nor Vannan, the associate chief, have California medical licenses. They are among a small group of doctors who practice in the state under a legal provision intended to give universities flexibility in hiring professors temporarily. They are licensed in Pennsylvania.​

Subsequent articles describe Vannan's exit: "Trust is critical for UCI" (2/16/06) and "UCI cardiology executive quits oversight role" (2/16/06).

Narula's 83-page curriculum vitae is available on the web: click here. One could argue, as UCI Dean Thomas Cesario did (in the article), that Narula was a good choice despite his lack of board certification. To me the more interesting scandal is how Cesario's children obtained employment at UCI, as described in this Los Angeles Times article: "UCI Execs' Families Got Jobs at Med Center" (2/8/06).

The younger Cesario helped get his eventual boss hired at UCI before he had a job there.

Thomas Cesario said his son brought him the resume of Jagat Narula. He gave it to the search committee that hired Narula as cardiology division chief in November 2003.

Eleven months later, Narula hired David Cesario.

When Narula was hired, UCI already had a physician with the same electro-cardiology specialty as David Cesario. That doctor, Michael Brodsky, said Narula pressured him to quit as soon as Narula arrived. He said he believed the reason was to make room to bring in the dean's son.​

Regards,
-AT.

 

[ubuntu]

It begs the question: Why did not a guy with such distinctive career record take the Cardiology boards after his fellowship at MGH?

 

[tibor75]

Yeah, this kind of information being out in the open would be useful.

I interviewed for Cards at Baylor in 2002, completely oblivious to the fact that the Chief there Dr. Robert Roberts (who was confirmed as a jerk to me in conversations I had with him later when he lied to me about how the match worked) was on probation from any human research given past IRB transgressions.

 

[idiotpathic]

dr narula i believe cannot be certified in internal medicine as he does not have an internal medicine residency from usa. he has completed internal medicine and cardiology from india. he then completed cards from mass gen. he is board eligible in cards. but cannot give the cards boards as he doesnt have internal medicine board. he did his im and cards from AIIMS - which is the most competitive medical school in the world.

he is way way way way super qualified for the post. there are no qs regarding that.

dont know about the employment scandal.

 

[lub-dub]

Yeah, this kind of information being out in the open would be useful.

I interviewed for Cards at Baylor in 2002, completely oblivious to the fact that the Chief there Dr. Robert Roberts (who was confirmed as a jerk to me in conversations I had with him later when he lied to me about how the match worked) was on probation from any human research given past IRB transgressions.

Yeah...Baylor Card program is on the downfall now...with that kind of scandal and the divorce from Methodist Hosp. Most of the people there are jerks from my personal interactions. I am glad I didn't rank it at all....

 

[lub-dub]

It begs the question: Why did not a guy with such distinctive career record take the Cardiology boards after his fellowship at MGH?

I heard that he's mainly good in bench research and not so competent in clinical practice. Perhaps he's afraid that if he fails the boards, geeee, that would look really bad!

 

[pillu]

I heard that he's mainly good in bench research and not so competent in clinical practice. Perhaps he's afraid that if he fails the boards, geeee, that would look really bad!

I believe what idiotp.. said is correct. If you are not board certified in IM, you can not sit for cardiology boards.

 

[joti]

I heard that he's mainly good in bench research and not so competent in clinical practice. Perhaps he's afraid that if he fails the boards, geeee, that would look really bad!

Many academic programs are infact headed (PD) by bench work guys. It is a reallly sad situation that the bench work researchers train the clinical fellows. One of the fellows in a big name program told me if the bench work guys are coming for clinical rounds they would spend 30-45 mts with each patient. Guess what!!!!!!!! they finish the rounds by midnight. I heard one of the top academic program is inititating some projects in this direction to separate the clinical acedemicians from the bench work academicians.
Once again I am not against bench work guys. There contribution to the cardiology research is immense. However I dont understand the logic of these guys training a full fledged clinical speciality.

 

[idiotpathic]

I heard that he's mainly good in bench research and not so competent in clinical practice. Perhaps he's afraid that if he fails the boards, geeee, that would look really bad!

with due respect, i really feel that any board exam is not at all difficult to pass provided u study enuf for a few months. and i dont think seeing his achievements - he wud have a problem passing it. althoh i do appreciate the subtle dark humor in ur post🙂

 

[CCMD2005]

This post was most probably written by some pin-headed resident attempting to dissuade others from applying/interviewing at the program. Thus improving her/his chances of gaining acceptance.
-CC

 

[golytlely]

Anyone who would take any creedence to this unliscensed deal is a total nut job. THE ONLY reason to apply to UCI is Guys like Narula, there are plenty of exceptions at every institution. To get a california liscense requires nothing special other than an insane amount of paper work, and if Irivine doesn't require one for practice, who cares. BELIEVE me, a guy who has done as much for the field as narula, is beyond qualified.

Dont believe the hype.

 

[fusefanjay]

I guess, according to the previous post, that I must be another one of those "nutcases" who would prefer to do residency directed by someone board certified in their field, and preferably at a medical center that isn't being investigated by the FBI for their complacency in dozens of deaths in their transplant program. Face it, UCI has had some issues with hiring, promotion, and administration of their medical center.

 

[DrIM]

Just look at the CV of this person.Jagat narula CV. If you are matured person and know some thing in the field, you won't be posing any questions about certifications. This guy composes questions for some certification exams. For him passing a cards board is a big deal?

For him to gt certified in Cards is he has to through Internal medicine Residency then IM board certification then cards board.

This is not required for peopple who are exceptional. I suggest you to go through his CV.

Go to your PD or Chairman ( Who are from cards background) ask them about Jagat Narula.

 

[indiamacbean]

no comment one way or the other but why would you EVER put your DEA number in a public document that might end up on the internet?

 

[tum]

no comment one way or the other but why would you EVER put your DEA number in a public document that might end up on the internet?

wow apparently you can get your dea # without being board certified : )

 

[kkpandey]

Just look at the CV of this person.Jagat narula CV. If you are matured person and know some thing in the field, you won't be posing any questions about certifications. This guy composes questions for some certification exams. For him passing a cards board is a big deal?

For him to gt certified in Cards is he has to through Internal medicine Residency then IM board certification then cards board.

This is not required for peopple who are exceptional. I suggest you to go through his CV.

Go to your PD or Chairman ( Who are from cards background) ask them about Jagat Narula.

Nobody is as great as the CV might look like!
Process and procedure must be the SAME for everybody.
He is the guy who stole my paper and put his name on it so that he can present the paper at ACC, publish it and make his spurious CV look thicker. I give him the credit for being a student at AIIMS in India. However, thieves can be found anywhere!! Beware.

 

[DrIM]

KKPandey,

I don't know your background. Can you post your credential here. He became Editor in chief for new Imaging Magzine from ACC. If you know some thing about ACC and to be founding Editor-in-Chief answers all your stupid doubts. Don't discuss his competence. You are saying he stole your paper. it must be a joke of century.

DrIM

 

[punjabiMD]

KKPandey,

I don't know your background. Can you post your credential here. He became Editor in chief for new Imaging Magzine from ACC. If you know some thing about ACC and to be founding Editor-in-Chief answers all your stupid doubts. Don't discuss his competence. You are saying he stole your paper. it must be a joke of century.

DrIM

well... the "not-being-BC-able-in-cards-without-an-IM-residency" thing sounds like an awful loophole for foreign-trained MDs.

although-
I can say one thing is for sure... in order to be a member and post on sdn, you don't have to be able to type proper grammatical English.

oh, and the "he stole my paper" thing? not an unreasonable statement, it happens all the time within the "holy" world of research...

 

[tibor75]

Looks like this liar surfaced elsewhere after being thrown out of UCI.

http://www.internalmedicine.osu.edu/cardiovascular/8517.cfm

 

[howelljolly]

Is it just me, or is that a hokey picture? The bio is written (as my post is) with lousy grammar. Makes the whole thing kinda scary..... as if he hacked the website to give himself an iron-clad alibi for the latest revision of his CV.

 

[tibor75]

Is it just me, or is that a hokey picture? The bio is written (as my post is) with lousy grammar. Makes the whole thing kinda scary..... as if he hacked the website to give himself an iron-clad alibi for the latest revision of his CV.

actually the more interesting thing about the picture is that it's not original. It's the same picture found in this article when the bum was at Irvine:

http://images.google.com/imgres?img...tbnw=96&prev=/images?q=mani+vannan&um=1&hl=en

I guess OSU didn't even bother to get a new picture for their website.

 

[dragonfly99]

Wow, calling this doc a "bum" seems like strong language...I mean overly strong. I think he's probably quite good at reading echos, and I doubt he'd have any trouble passing the cardiology board exam. However, what I find very surprising is that the UC Irvine would have hired either one of these docs, knowing that both of them don't have the required training to get a California medical license. I mean, it is just very strange. Of course you could hire someone for a straight lab/research job in this situation, but why would you even hire someone for a clinical position if he/she can't get a California license. It seems that this was very much a misstep on the part of the medical center.

One thing the newspaper article mentions is that there were ten...yes TEN...other hospitals in the county that had more cardiac patients than UC Irvine. That is pretty off the wall. I wonder whether they are doing better now?

 

[ucladukes]

Looks like this liar surfaced elsewhere after being thrown out of UCI.

http://www.internalmedicine.osu.edu/cardiovascular/8517.cfm

I am a little dissappointed in the general disrespect shown on this thread which I have periodically glanced at over the past year or so. To my knowledge, in an academic medical center, faculty are allowed to practice under an institutional license. This exception is made because, obviously, a giant in the field is not expected to redo their residency training in the US (if they are to practice in an academic institution). I don't know much about Dr. Vanan, but I cannot believe people have an issue with Dr. Narula. He is very well respected by the academic cards community,

 

[DrIM]

Bummers only can question his credentials. Ask your program director or your chair about Narula.

Billgates doesn't need a bachelors degree now to develop a software.

 

[DrIM]

Read following: Even after that if you think he is incompetent, you are are saying everyone in ACC, AHA, NIH and rest of cardiology field are dumbs.

Jagat Narula MD, PhD, FACC, FRCP [Edin, Hon]
Jagat Narula completed his cardiology training in India at the All India Institute of Medical Sciences, Delhi, and relocated to Massachusetts General Hospital and Harvard Medical School in 1989. After fellowships in heart failure,transplantation, nuclear cardiology, and cardiology research, he joined the Massachusetts General cardiology faculty. In 1997, he moved to Hahnemann University School of Medicine in Philadelphia. At Hahnemann, he was the Thomas J. Vischer Professor of Medicine, Chief of Division of Cardiology, and Vice-Chairman of Medicine. He joined University of California, Irvine in 2003 as Professor of Medicine Chief, Division of Cardiology, and Associate Dean for Research.

Dr. Narula is involved in clinical and basic research in the fields of heart failure and atherosclerosis, with major emphasis on development of novel noninvasive imaging techniques. He has made vital contributions to the imaging of apoptotic cell death in heart muscle, and to the imaging of atherosclerotic plaques that are vulnerable to rupture. His research is not limited by any one imaging modality; rather, Dr. Narula uses integrated imaging approaches for better identification of cardiovascular pathology. His research is funded, in part, by grants from the National Institutes of Health.

Dr. Narula has authored more than 300 research publications and edited 20 books and journal supplements. He has been awarded "Best Young Investigator" on several occasions by the Cardiovascular Council, the Society of Nuclear Medicine, and the American Society of Nuclear Cardiology. He serves on various committees of the American Heart AssociationHe has been an Associate Editor of the Journal of the American College of Cardiology and Editor of Heart Failure Clinics of North America. .