UCLA and UPENN

[chandnim]

---

Members don't see this ad.

hi everyone,
i needed a lil help from students currently studyin at UCLA or Upenn.
i am a foreign trained dentist applying for the PPID n PASS program.
the university wants us to answer questions for the application process.
one of the question being why i want to join UCLA/UPENN for the PPID/PASS program.
i researched and collected information regarding this but was hoping to talk with someone who can provide me information about things like
1) why do you think UCLA/UPENN is better than other schools offering DDS programs.
2) what are the simulation labs like in ur school.
3)how is the curriculum different from other schools
4) in what ways are you encouraged to e a part of research projects and how does the process of taking up a research project work?
5) whatever other information you can provide me with for the above question.
i really hope someone can step forward and help me out with this
thank you so much

 

[PickMe]

i dont know much about UCLA but i can answer some things about penn. a lot of students like the PASS program because it is only 2 years at penn, rather than 3 at other schools. the simulation lab at penn is nice, but is only used in 1st and 2nd year courses, so you would not be using it as a PASS student. i personally think that its only really helpful at introducing different types of preparations, and as a foreign trained dentist, you would not benefit much from using it because you are already familiar with the preps and concepts. i cannot answer how the curriculum is different from other schools because i only went to 1 school. you will get ample clinical time, with requirements of about 30 crowns, 15 canals in endo, 7 arches of removable, and many restorations. research is generally done between first and 2nd years of dental school, and after that no one will push you into a reserach project. however, if there is a certain department that you are interested in, you can talk to faculty and try to get in on their research. one thing that is nice about penn's pass program is that you become fully integrated into the class, the pass students are not separated from the rest of the class (with the exception of some preclinical work). downside is that it is ridiculously expensive. good luck!

 

[dental1234]

I'm a current UCLA student

UCLA is not better for all its reputation. Its in a good location with a big name undergrad and I think that's the main advantages. If you want to specialize it is good because of its reputation. If you want to do general go somewhere else because you will not get the experience you want.

The sim labs and clinic labs are always very dirty and stuff is breaking down all the time. We are constantly running out of supplies and we as student are responsible for the clean up as well. its not very high tech.

curriculum is pass no pass which is great. there are some really good teachers but also an equal amount of bad ones who don't know how to write test questions. We went through a major curriculum change and everything is a mess. There are a lot of Bull Sh. courses you have to take quarter after quarter that are MASSIVE wastes of time. You have to write essays. ESSAYS is dental school!!!!!!

UCLA loves research so if you want to do it you are encouraged but you are on your own to try and find a professor to work with.

I think the admin doesnt care about students and just care about covering their own butts. there is a constant fight between students and faculty rather than working together. Because you are PPID you wont have to deal as much with all the overachieving, super competitive, immature, "gunners", that they accept as D1s. Also because of all the specialty programs you don't get to do anything. It's all referred to the grad clinics. When you have you grad clinic rotations (oral surgery, perio, etc) you don't get to do anything really just glorified assisting. Since you are already an international dentist then you probably already have good experience compared to the rest of us so that might not matter much to you. At UCLA you are your own receptionist which is really stressful. I would love to go to a school where they scheduled and confirmed the patients for you but here that is all up to you and its a HUGE headache

 

[charlestweed]

The sim labs and clinic labs are always very dirty and stuff is breaking down all the time. We are constantly running out of supplies and we as student are responsible for the clean up as well. its not very high tech.

What’s wrong with cleaning up your own mess? If you don’t want to clean up the lab, then try not to create a lot of mess when doing the lab works.

There are a lot of Bull Sh. courses you have to take quarter after quarter that are MASSIVE wastes of time. You have to write essays. ESSAYS is dental school!!!!!!

Have you ever wondered why so many UCLA students do well on the NDBE part 1? It’s probably because of these repetitive courses.

UCLA loves research so if you want to do it you are encouraged but you are on your own to try and find a professor to work with.

When I was at UCLA, research was the requirement for graduation. At first, I thought it was a stupid requirement. But when I decided to specialize in the beginning of my 3rd year, I realized that having done a research project was a huge plus.

I think the admin doesnt care about students and just care about covering their own butts. there is a constant fight between students and faculty rather than working together.

They actually care. They don’t just kick the students out of their program if the students struggle academically. They find tutors to help the students. The school agreed to give my patient a 50% discount for his 3 unit bridge so I could graduate on time.

At UCLA you are your own receptionist which is really stressful. I would love to go to a school where they scheduled and confirmed the patients for you but here that is all up to you and its a HUGE headache

At least at UCLA, you don’t have to do a lot of crowns to graduate. Most students graduate on time.

Because you are PPID you wont have to deal as much with all the overachieving, super competitive, immature, "gunners", that they accept as D1s.

UCLA students are not a bunch of "gunners". The reason UCLA students study very hard is they assume that all of their classmates are smarter than them. They don’t know how hard it is to pass a class. They study hard simply because they want to stay away from being at the bottom of the class, the group of students who get the “NP” or “failed” grades.

It is meaningless to have a lot of good EPRs (or honor passes).

 

[dental1234]

Well things have changed.

I clean up after my mess and a lot of people dont. You think it's fair that I clean up after them too?

The curriculum is totally different so you can't compare to when you were here. It's not the repetition. There are straight up bullsh classes like behavioral sciences where you have to write essays about you feelings.
The reason ucla does so well on boards is because everyone wants to specialize. They study for months with whatever resouces they can get. The school doesn't help with this. It's all up to the student. It's also because all ucla cares about is DAT and GPA. Obviously if you do well in these you are smart and will do well on the boards. The poster is PpID. as a PPID you won't be accepted unless you score above a 90 on part I.

 

[charlestweed]

Well things have changed.

I clean up after my mess and a lot of people dont. You think it's fair that I clean up after them too?

The curriculum is totally different so you can't compare to when you were here. It's not the repetition. There are straight up bullsh classes like behavioral sciences where you have to write essays about you feelings.
The reason ucla does so well on boards is because everyone wants to specialize. They study for months with whatever resouces they can get. The school doesn't help with this. It's all up to the student. It's also because all ucla cares about is DAT and GPA. Obviously if you do well in these you are smart and will do well on the boards. The poster is PpID. as a PPID you won't be accepted unless you score above a 90 on part I.

According to a couple of recent UCLA grads, things have not changed much….. same old lab, old clinic, tough removable prosth requirements, limited number of patients, parking problem etc.

Of course, it is all up the student. The school simply creates the environment for their students to excel. For example, the P/F curriculum helps eliminate competition among the classmates and allows students to have more time to study for boards and do research.

There’s nothing wrong with selecting the students with high GPA and DAT scores. The school admin want to make sure that the students they select are able to survive the tough dental curriculum at UCLA.

You complain about having to call your patients to schedule the dental appointments. Well, many schools (ie USC, my ortho program) also make the students do the same thing. I consider this a good thing. I worked harder because of this. I learned how to communicate better with my patients better because of this. It helped improve my English speaking skills (as you know, English is not my first language). A student wouldn’t be able learn much and less likely to succeed in life if he/she went to a dental school that spoils the students and does everything for them.

 

[dental1234]

I guess you didn't hear about the curriculum overhaul. That's because the first class experiencing the new curriculum are just new 3rd years.

 

[xhamburgersamx]

Did UPENN get a new sim lab because the old one used to be called the "dungeon"

 

[dental1234]

hi everyone,
i needed a lil help from students currently studyin at UCLA or Upenn.
i am a foreign trained dentist applying for the PPID n PASS program.
the university wants us to answer questions for the application process.
one of the question being why i want to join UCLA/UPENN for the PPID/PASS program.

getting back to your question here is what you say about why you want UCLA. To do research, to specialize, to go into academics/teaching, to get a masters/phD. that's what they really care about

 

[allover]

Well things have changed.

I clean up after my mess and a lot of people dont. You think it's fair that I clean up after them too?

The curriculum is totally different so you can't compare to when you were here. It's not the repetition. There are straight up bullsh classes like behavioral sciences where you have to write essays about you feelings.
The reason ucla does so well on boards is because everyone wants to specialize. They study for months with whatever resouces they can get. The school doesn't help with this. It's all up to the student. It's also because all ucla cares about is DAT and GPA. Obviously if you do well in these you are smart and will do well on the boards. The poster is PpID. as a PPID you won't be accepted unless you score above a 90 on part I.

so this whole go to UCLA to specialize then is nothing but a self fulfilling prophecy.

 

[dental1234]

so this whole go to UCLA to specialize then is nothing but a self fulfilling prophecy.

You could say that. The attitude around here is that General Dentistry isn't "good enough". It's viewed almost as a "default" for not being able to get into a specialty. This kind of thinking is contagious and people feel obligated to do a specialty not to be outdone or looked down upon by their peers.

 

[chandnim]

thank you for all your answers. theyve been a great help. i had one more question : are the dentsim labs and virtual reality labs the same thing or are they two different labs for diff purposes??

 

[Charmm]

UCLA people, how much time do you get to study for the boards?

 

[allover]

You could say that. The attitude around here is that General Dentistry isn't "good enough". It's viewed almost as a "default" for not being able to get into a specialty. This kind of thinking is contagious and people feel obligated to do a specialty not to be outdone or looked down upon by their peers.

80% of dentists are GP. fine by me! and ill be one of them!

 

[whlee84]

I believe virtual labs and dentsim labs are the same thing. UPenn's dentsim lab is small, but helpful in the first 2 years of school. To answer your question, I don't think it has been renovated anytime within the last 5 years, and it's still located in the "dungeon"

 

[senpai]

You could say that. The attitude around here is that General Dentistry isn't "good enough". It's viewed almost as a "default" for not being able to get into a specialty. This kind of thinking is contagious and people feel obligated to do a specialty not to be outdone or looked down upon by their peers.

Sounds like you're a little bit bitter about your experience at UCLA right now. I feel the same way about my dental school and I'm sure that everyone at some point during their dental school experience has those types of feelings as well. My siblings that went there said there were times when they wished they hadn't gone there bc of the intense curriculum, but in the end they made it into their specialties, not because they felt they had to impress anyone else, they generally had a desire to pursue their perspective fields, and are now very happy with their original decision to attend UCLA. I am sure you'll feel the same way at some point down the road...

to answer another question...

UCLA people, how much time do you get to study for the boards?

UCLA students get 0 additional weeks off to study for boards. Pretty amazing that the majority scores above 90 with having to study on top of the intense classload and still score so high...

 

[charlestweed]

You could say that. The attitude around here is that General Dentistry isn't "good enough". It's viewed almost as a "default" for not being able to get into a specialty. This kind of thinking is contagious and people feel obligated to do a specialty not to be outdone or looked down upon by their peers.

When I first started dental school, I didn’t plan to specialize but it was hard not to think about specializing when I was surrounded by these highly motivated classmates and roommates 24/7. Without such motivation, I wouldn’t be able to have the kind of lifestyle that a lot my GP colleagues wish to have.

 

[charlestweed]

UCLA people, how much time do you get to study for the boards?

Because of the P/F, there is no pressure to work hard to be on top of the class. Many students skip classes and use the time that they save to study for board. I usually skipped most of early morning classes and woke up at 10-11 AM so I had a lot of energy and time to study for the board. I spent about 3 months to study for the NDBE I. I even had time to read the review materials twice and do the old exams 2-3 times. The first 2 years were actually very easy for me. I didn’t like the 3rd and 4th years because I had to wake up early to treat patients …and it was very stressful to find patients to fulfill the requirements.

 

[dental1234]

Sounds like you're a little bit bitter about your experience at UCLA right now. I feel the same way about my dental school and I'm sure that everyone at some point during their dental school experience has those types of feelings as well. My siblings that went there said there were times when they wished they hadn't gone there bc of the intense curriculum, but in the end they made it into their specialties, not because they felt they had to impress anyone else, they generally had a desire to pursue their perspective fields, and are now very happy with their original decision to attend UCLA. I am sure you'll feel the same way at some point down the road...

to answer another question...

UCLA people, how much time do you get to study for the boards?

UCLA students get 0 additional weeks off to study for boards. Pretty amazing that the majority scores above 90 with having to study on top of the intense classload and still score so high...

Yes well I know people come in with a specialty in mind and that great. Its great even if you decide while in school and keep your options open. I just don't like the way general practice is looked down upon. Anyways they don't give you time you just have to find time. People find time and usually just don't schedule much patients during the summer after 2nd year much to the chagrin of the faculty. the classes arent that many and most of the time is alotted to scheduling patients. There is no deadline to take the boards at UCLA but they tried to put one in place. I think they will put one in place once the boards are p/np because then it wouldn't matter how well you do. I think this is a good thing.

 

[dental1234]

Because of the P/F, there is no pressure to work hard to be on top of the class. Many students skip classes and use the time that they save to study for board. I usually skipped most of early morning classes and woke up at 10-11 AM so I had a lot of energy and time to study for the board. I spent about 3 months to study for the NDBE I. I even had time to read the review materials twice and do the old exams 2-3 times. The first 2 years were actually very easy for me. I didn't like the 3rd and 4th years because I had to wake up early to treat patients …and it was very stressful to find patients to fulfill the requirements.

its pass no pass but there are EPRs. They are pretty much honors that are given to the top 10% OF EVERY class you take at UCLA. Some people are EPR crazy and love to brag about them. Trust me, there is plenty of competition. They keep track of class ranking but they just don't tell students what the ranking is. When you apply to a specialty the student affairs dean writes a LOR for you and in the letter they at least hint at if not outright report what your class ranking was. I'm assuming they would only do this for people in the top of the class because they wouldn't want to report your ranking if it is unimpressive. Also the UCLA specialty programs have access to these EPRs so they would matter for in house specialties.

 

[charlestweed]

its pass no pass but there are EPRs. They are pretty much honors that are given to the top 10% OF EVERY class you take at UCLA. Some people are EPR crazy and love to brag about them. Trust me, there is plenty of competition. They keep track of class ranking but they just don't tell students what the ranking is. When you apply to a specialty the student affairs dean writes a LOR for you and in the letter they at least hint at if not outright report what your class ranking was. I'm assuming they would only do this for people in the top of the class because they wouldn't want to report your ranking if it is unimpressive. Also the UCLA specialty programs have access to these EPRs so they would matter for in house specialties.

Yes, only UCLA specialty programs know about this "secret" class rank but other schools' specialty programs don't. This is why more than half of the UCLA students get accepted to specialty programs every year…not just UCLA's top 10%.

 

[dental1234]

Yes, only UCLA specialty programs know about this “secret” class rank but other schools’ specialty programs don’t. This is why more than half of the UCLA students get accepted to specialty programs every year…not just UCLA’s top 10%.

they key is that in the LOR they "hint at" your rank basically giving admissions committees a range. Not such a secret. Obviously just because you aren't in the top 10% it doesn't mean you have no shot of getting in specialties. You can do poorly/average in classes at UCLA but have a great board score.

 

[charlestweed]

they key is that in the LOR they "hint at" your rank basically giving admissions committees a range.

Not really! I was just an average student in my class and the dean, the ortho program director, and my research mentor still gave me very good LORs. The school wants every student to specialize so they write good LORs for everybody….only UCLA specialty programs know which student is the top student who has the most # of EPRs.

Obviously just because you aren't in the top 10% it doesn't mean you have no shot of getting in specialties. You can do poorly/average in classes at UCLA but have a great board score.

This is exactly my point. There is no need to compete against your classmates (unless you really want to go to UCLA specialty program)….good board score is all the UCLA students need. To get the invitation for interviews, the students at other schools would have to have both: high class rank and high board score.

 

[dental1234]

Not really! I was just an average student in my class and the dean, the ortho program director, and my research mentor still gave me very good LORs. The school wants every student to specialize so they write good LORs for everybody….only UCLA specialty programs know which student is the top student who has the most # of EPRs.


This is exactly my point. There is no need to compete against your classmates (unless you really want to go to UCLA specialty program)….good board score is all the UCLA students need. To get the invitation for interviews, the students at other schools would have to have both: high class rank and high board score.

of course they write good LORs for everyone. You missed my point. The point is that if you are in the top of the class they will mention that as another added bonus. They won't mention you rank if it is not impressive.



Students don't need to compete but people still do. They give Dean's List Awards to those who get 10 EPRs in a school year. They give a award to the person who is #1 in the class every year. There is OKU where you need to be in the top 15% of your class and then they consider other things. All these awards will definitely look great on a CV and they all depend on you doing better than everyone else.

 

[charlestweed]

Students don't need to compete but people still do. They give Dean's List Awards to those who get 10 EPRs in a school year. They give a award to the person who is #1 in the class every year. There is OKU where you need to be in the top 15% of your class and then they consider other things. All these awards will definitely look great on a CV and they all depend on you doing better than everyone else.

Then they are wasting their time because an average student like me can get just as many interview invitations from the specialty programs as the ones who receive a lot of EPRs and Dean List awards. I know because I went to the same interviews that these top guys went to.

 

[dental1234]

charles. did they have "the nuggets" when you were a student?

 

[dr63]

Friendly information for applicants for UCLA PPID Program:
I have recently graduated from UCLA PPID program. Well, I have learned a lot in that program, mostly in restorative, removable prosth and general dentistry. The school did not have sufficient number of patients, which made me to advertise a lot, and bring some of my patients. However, I did graduate on time and had no problem regarding that. So UCLA PPID program might be good for general dentists. But, if you are planning to apply for the residency, I DO NOT recommend the UCLA PPID program at all. It might be the opposite for the domestic students, but does not work for international ones. First of all, they don't accept their own PPID students in their own residency programs, which is unlike most of other schools. The director of ortho program has stated few times that they have no position in their program for the PPID students. Also, at UCLA School of dentistry, they don't treat their foreign students and the regular ones equally. Some faculties even belittle the PPID students. Their system is pass, fail and honors/ EPR, even if you get 20 EPRs and honors in the 2 years, they still wouldn't write you good recommendation letters, as they do for their regular students. As they might think the domestic students are better because they might have received 40 honors in the 4 years!!!!!! Specially that the NBDE is pass and fail now, I think it is really important if your school would rank you, give you good recommendation letters or accept you in their residency programs. In our class none of the PPIDs got accepted in OS, ortho or pedo!!! However all the other applicants who applied to these specialties got in. I think this is unfair!

 

[ToothbrushBuddy]

Did UPENN get a new sim lab because the old one used to be called the "dungeon"

Yes, we are currently using the latest in virtual dentistry, called Simodont, it's pretty neat. Also, we are all very nice to each other and do not have "gunners" because you don't have to be absolute top of your class to specialize from Penn. At Penn we are graded which is good if you want to specialize. I am very glad I came to Penn so far.