UCLA (Geffen Scholarship) or Harvard (Reach Scholarship)

[3YellowRoses]

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Hi!! I have been debating between these two schools and my time is running out to decide. I am incredibly grateful to be in this position, and I know that both options are a blessing. I want to make sure that I make the best decision for myself.

Background: I want to work at the intersection of medicine, public health, and education. I am not sure what I would like to specialize in. I want to have a high impact in my career and life. My family is in California, so I think I may eventually settle in California. First-gen, grew up low-income (better financially now), Latina (immigrant family from Mexico)


UCLA (went here for undergrad)
Year 1= pre-clinical
Year 2= clinical rotations
Year 3= discovery year, where you can get a masters or do a project within a pathway (global health, social justice, etc)
Year 4= clinical rotations + electives

Pros:
-Full ride= tuition and cost of living covered= no debt and ~7.2-9k invested per year while in med school. freedom to use my degrees however I want since no debt (go into primary care or do non-profit or global work)

-Third year is the discovery year, where I can get a masters or do research (Can get my MD and MPH in four years!! *only 4 years if I do it at ucla, and it is also covered by my scholarship)

-Beach/warm weather

-community/network there (college friends, best friend from high school, partner)


-anti-racist and social justice oriented curriculum and projects


-relatively easy to visit family (1.5 hour flight to Sacramento)


-A third of students are also first-generation.


-I would be able to live in the Boulevard (BEAUTIFUL, NEW grad housing apartments in Brentwood)


Cons:
-not as highly ranked as Harvard (ranked 13 for primary care and 19 for research). Maybe will have fewer doors open in academia/research/global work? But maybe I will open any door I want to walk through.

-do not gain experience and personal growth from living in a new area

-need to drive for year 2 and 4 to clinical sites. I hate driving in LA.

Middle: flexible classes (some are required and some are optional + recorded). Appreciate the flexibility, but I like talking to other students, it helps with my learning. There are also small groups/case-based learning.





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Harvard
Year 1= preclinical
Year 2= clinical rotations
Year 3= three months of courses, then research
Year 4= continue research, and do a four-month capstone project



Pros:
- the big name= no door would ever be closed to me. Not if I do international or government work. #1 for research and #9 for primary care.

- two-ish years to do research with top-tier faculty (although it is annoying to pay for tuition and fees to do research, I should be getting PAID to do work)

-flipped classroom (love this learning style)!! ***Possible con: attendance is required

-experience living outside California and in Boston, great for personal growth

-public transportation is pretty good

-manageable debt, so my career decisions won’t be driven by debt

-I really like that it is a student city, with great schools

-my friend who had done global neurosurgery research there for two years says the collaboration and work is just on a different level





Cons:
- debt, but it is only 20k TOTAL for 4 years (normally, it is 404k 🤯). Very very doable.

-It is COLD. In general, do not enjoy being cold. Grew in California, went to UCLA for undergrad

-It is far from home, so I would not see my family very often. Maybe three times a year bc breaks are not super common, would take 11 hours door-to-door, and it would be very expensive. I have young nieces and nephews, and my parents are older (nearing retirement)

-it is dark and overcast for months (a student shared this)

-have dorms for first year. Great for making friends, but still a small space to live in

- If I wanted to get my MPH, I would need to do 5 years whereas, at UCLA, I could do it in 4.

-felt out of place during the interview day with the other interviewees (the actual interviewers were great. not sure if I am just psyching myself out. Was very very tired that day)

-did not feel connected to current students in Latinos in Medicine Student Association (LMSA) when I went to one of the student diversity events



Summary: Do I go to my alma mater and enjoy warm weather + beach, built-in support system, and relatively easy access to my family OR do I take my chance to go to Harvard Med School and experience living on the east coast

 

[mangowolf]

Something you did not mention as a con for HMS is the lack of diversity amongst both faculty and the patient population. I know many people may recommend Harvard because it’s hard to look past the name, but I also think that it is important for you to find a place where you will be supported as a FGLI/Latina person & I can share what I know about HMS with respect to that experience. I made a similar decision as you (UCSF vs HMS) and ultimately will be attending UCSF for reasons of fit, proximity to family, differences in the student body between the two schools, and much much more. Happy to chat more in DMs if you’d like!

 

[JoyFairy]

Something you did not mention as a con for HMS is the lack of diversity amongst both faculty and the patient population. I know many people may recommend Harvard because it’s hard to look past the name, but I also think that it is important for you to find a place where you will be supported as a FGLI/Latina person & I can share what I know about HMS with respect to that experience. I made a similar decision as you (UCSF vs HMS) and ultimately will be attending UCSF for reasons of fit, proximity to family, differences in the student body between the two schools, and much much more. Happy to chat more in DMs if you’d like!

I'd like to second this. I worked at HMS in one of their flagship community health programs/rotation sites for a few years and had the privilege to engage with faculty and medical students. The lack of diversity in patient population and faculty is a significant issue... especially if you're interested in working with marginalized communities and or feeling supported as an underrepresented student. If HMS ends up being right for you, I'd recommend being intentional about developing a strong external support system. My DMs are open!

Also, if you decide to join #GeffenGang, we can be well-supported, URM/LI classmates lol 🙂

Edit: typo

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

You don’t turn down Harvard if the debt is similar (unless you hate the East coast or have family concerns). If it’s for Hopkins or UCSF that’s one thing but I can’t imagine turning it down for ucla.

 

[mangowolf]

You don’t turn down Harvard if the debt is similar (unless you hate the East coast or have family concerns). If it’s for Hopkins or UCSF that’s one thing but I can’t imagine turning it down for ucla.

This is the opinion of someone who only cares about prestige lmfao and may not value things like community, mental health support, happiness, family, relationships, TRUE commitment to caring for underserved communities, etc. there are TONS of reasons to turn down Harvard and people who say so otherwise are absolutely misguided (and probably may not have had the experience of being a FGLI/URM individual in a predominantly white, wealthy space).

It is not like we are comparing Harvard and a low-rate MD school either, it is UCLA for god's sake, and OP has already expressed a desire to match back to California. There are lots of good reasons to choose Harvard over UCLA and there is nothing wrong if OP decides to go that route. But saying that one should not turn down Harvard just because it doesn't cost more - that's just a totally ridiculous opinion.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

This is the opinion of someone who only cares about prestige lmfao and may not value things like community, mental health support, happiness, family, relationships, TRUE commitment to caring for underserved communities, etc. there are TONS of reasons to turn down Harvard and people who say so otherwise are absolutely misguided (and probably may not have had the experience of being a FGLI/URM individual in a predominantly white, wealthy space).

It is not like we are comparing Harvard and a low-rate MD school either, it is UCLA for god's sake, and OP has already expressed a desire to match back to California. There are lots of good reasons to choose Harvard over UCLA and there is nothing wrong if OP decides to go that route. But saying that one should not turn down Harvard just because it doesn't cost more - that's just a totally ridiculous opinion.

But I did say family and implied being miserable (“if one hates the East coast”)

 

[JoyFairy]

But I did say family and implied being miserable (“if one hates the East coast”)

If that was your implication, your comment lacked the nuance to adequately convey your point. "Hating the East Coast" doesn't cover lacking support as a low-income/URM student, curricular preferences, or any of the other reasons for choosing UCLA over Harvard. Someone might chose a T20 East Coast school over UCSF for reasons beyond "loving the snow".

The point of this thread is for folks to provide useful tidbits that might helpful as OP makes their decision. That's why @mangowolf and I are raising specific points for OP's consideration (i.e. support), rather than simply stating one school is better than the other. There isn't a "right" or "wrong" answer, here. It's all about OP's priorities, which might be different from mine or yours or anyone else's -- and that's okay.

 

[Dogruffle01]

If your heart is set on UCLA then go UCLA.

From the looks of it you are leaning towards primary care, coming from a low ses background, I can say 90% of your patients are gonna care about only one thing when it comes to seeing the doctor … the bill.

Prestige is nice, but it seems like that is the only strong reason for Harvard and you have 15 other reasons for UCLA.

Go to Cali and be the best Dr. you can be…

Set Your Heart Ablaze 🔥🔥🔥

 

[ujsc]

If that was your implication, your comment lacked the nuance to adequately convey your point. "Hating the East Coast" doesn't cover lacking support as a low-income/URM student, curricular preferences, or any of the other reasons for choosing UCLA over Harvard. Someone might chose a T20 East Coast school over UCSF for reasons beyond "loving the snow".

The point of this thread is for folks to provide useful tidbits that might helpful as OP makes their decision. That's why @mangowolf and I are raising specific points for OP's consideration (i.e. support), rather than simply stating one school is better than the other. There isn't a "right" or "wrong" answer, here. It's all about OP's priorities, which might be different from mine or yours or anyone else's -- and that's okay.

He/she lacked the nuance, what point is that? If there isn't a right or wrong answer why are you attacking him/her for making his point known. Very unprofessional to do so in this forum. So what if he/she believes in the prestige of the school as a determinant? The original OP wouldn't be asking if they were 100% sure, would they?

 

[JoyFairy]

He/she lacked the nuance, what point is that? If there isn't a right or wrong answer why are you attacking him/her for making his point known. Very unprofessional to do so in this forum. So what if he believes in the prestige of the school as a determinant?

My comment was not an attack on Vox, rather respectful disagreement with the unilateral way in which Vox presented their point. In my opinion, there’s a helpful way to discuss the potential impacts of the prestige difference between HMS and UCLA without suggesting it would be laughable to choose UCLA.

I stated that Vox’s point lacked nuance in reference to their statement that “if you hate the East Coast” was somehow equivalent to the multitude of factors that could make OP “miserable”. I also explained that in my post.

I don't want to derail OP's thread, so I'll leave it at that.

 

[4pf]

I do agree that a lot of the pros point to UCLA besides ranking. However, if you grew up in Cali and plan to return, this may be a unique opportunity for personal growth to experience a different institution and region of the country. You may not like it, and if so you can match back to cali in 4 years. You may love it, and choosing the more adventurous option could have a transformative impact on your life. Just something to consider, good luck in your decision!

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

It really comes down to what your priority is. If you think the next four years should be absolutely focused on your future career, HMS is your definite choice. If you want the comfort of life you already know, then arguably UCLA is a good compromise.

 

[Apple Jacks]

UCLA based on what you seem comfortable with/most happy with.

 

[riversong33]

First of all, congratulations!!! We love to see our low-income, first-gen queens thrive in this field. You should be incredibly proud of yourself and I have no doubt your community is equally proud of you. Based on your pros and cons, I think it's important to note that medicine is full of folks who do tend to place a lot on name-recognition, and Harvard Medical School is definitely higher-raked like you said. You'll experience soooo much personal growth from stepping outside of your comfort zone for a brief time while also having the chance to learn from top-tier faculty on a whole other level that not many folks can say they had the chance to do. Plus, you can ALWAYS return to CA after school because absolutely no door will be closed to you. One of my closest mentors (URM, now an attending physician at UCLA who greatly advocates for diversity and social justice) actually attended HMS and continually tells me how much she loved her experience at Harvard, and how much mentorship and support she felt she had at Harvard once she was in, and how fully transformative her experience was. Reach for the stars, my friend!! Good luck <3

 

[throwaway5818]

Tbh, from many attendings I've spoken to, graduating with an MD from Harvard will give you an extraordinary advantage when it comes to residency, fellowship, future jobs, and the respect of colleagues in this (occasionally name-based and networking-based field). Don't limit yourself! UCLA is a great school and won't close doors; however, Harvard is just in a whole different league. Two of my friends who are MS2s now at Harvard both picked HMS over the Geffen scholarship and don't regret a thing. They can see that Harvard students have literally so many advantages, even on away rotations (which by the way, if you plan on matching back in CA, you will have ZERO issues bc the world is your oyster at this point 🤣).Once you're no longer a premed, but an actual medical student with a voice, you'll see how much easier it is to advocate for yourself when you have Harvard by your name. Also, the diversity issue is an issue in medicine as a whole, not just at Harvard. If you attended the second look at UCLA, then you know from the anti-racism and URM panels, there were quite a few unanswered questions (which honestly left me questioning whether or not I was just being appeased). Just remember that not everyone in the school (students, faculty, or visiting staff) will have the same priorities as you, so it's up to you to get the best education you can, expand your network at one of the most elite programs in the world, and bring back those skills to your home.

 

[crimson-cat]

Come from a similar background and had a similar choice and ended up going HMS. I think you're impressions are pretty spot on tbh. If you're optimizing for happiness, UCLA may be the move. If you're optimizing for maximum possible career success, HMS is certainly the move. However, if you're trying to maximize your personal success, you'll want to ensure you're in a place you feel you can succeed. Boston/HMS certainly can be a strange adjustment for people from different backgrounds and more supportive institutions. It really can't be overstated about how unfair of an advantage having the "@HMS" email, the Harvard ecosystem, and the Harvard resume line is though. Feel free to DM with any questions