UCLA VS Columbia VS UMich

[Aree]

---

Members don't see this ad.

Financial aid is similar in all three (no Geffen scholarship). Not entirely sure about a lot of things career wise, but I'd say I'm leaning towards surgical specialties. Also interested in research and entrepreneurship in medicine. All in all, I think the school that provides the most opportunities/opens the most doors would be ideal as it'll help me explore and figure out exactly what I want to do.

UCLA

Pros

• From LA, so family and friends are in the area. Strong support network.
• Highly ranked, strong reputation around the country but especially in CA
• Having talked to students, there doesn't seem to be any lack of opportunities
• Great weather, nice city

Cons

• Traditional curriculum. They are changing it but I am not sure if it'll be this year and affect me or next year. If it affects me it's nice that it's a new and updated curriculum but we'll be the guinea pigs
• Because of the traditional curriculum, there seems to be less time for research compared to P&S and UMich but apparently first two years are relatively chill so there's ample free time
• Don't teach to the step but the students I talked to didn't think it was a big deal as a good amount of that prep is on the individual anyways
• Match list seems pretty good to me but I've heard people say it's not as good as the school's ranking. Plus in 2019 the one thing I noticed was that neurosurgery match was only 1 compared to 6 which could be due to a variety of factors but interesting nonetheless.

Columbia

Pros

• New curriculum. 1.5 yr preclinical. Allows more time for research compared to UCLA
• Highly ranked, strong reputation around the country
• People seem to think there's some sort of magic that happens that'll get you matched to surgical specialities that doesn't happen at other places. Still not sure/convinced how true that is as surgical match lists are similar between here and UCLA for instance
• Highest step score of the three (240 compared to 230. Is that a lot?)

Cons

• NYC. I've visited a couple of times and I was not a big fan. I'm more of an introvert and worried that I'll find the environment overwhelming
• Don't know anyone there and far from family and friends. Lack of support network
• Despite the previous two, if people think that there is a clear and definite advantage of attending here then I wouldn't want to hold myself back from that. Part of me thinks it could be a cool experience that results in my growth as an individual. But the practical side of me thinks med school is stressful enough and there's no need to add extra stress if I don't have to

Michigan

Pros

• Had a phenomenal interview experience there. Everyone was incredibly kind and cool. People seemed very supportive.
• Highly ranked, but not as high as the other two
• one-year pre-clinical which is what Harvard does and if Harvard does it everybody else should too right? (lol)

Cons

• one-year pre-clinical with almost no summer break before jumping into rotations which sounds brutal to me
• Brutal and long winters
• Far from support network

Where I'm at: Have narrowed it down to UCLA and Columbia and leaning towards UCLA (but still thinking about UMICH as well). Mainly because I don't see any practical differences in prestige, match lists, opportunities, etc that justify the overwhelming challenge that may be moving to NYC. Also, I don't quite understand the buzz around these shortened preclinical curriculums. Does the extra 4-5 months that one spends finishing up UCLA's preclinicals while one at Columbia moves on to clinicals really make a big difference?

Thank you so very much all for your thoughts and opinions!

 

[Rachapkis]

UCLA seems to be the right choice here. Fit and the support of friends and family mean quite a lot. The prestige difference between the schools is immaterial. Whether you match into surgery or not will depend on your STEP scores and the reviews you receive from your rotations.

 

[here2help]

UCLA!!! Seems to be the best choice given the bullet points you’ve listed for each of the three schools.

 

[crimson-cat]

Just a note, you can think of the accelerated curriculum as shifting around when you have your happy time. In traditional programs, the first year is often pretty chill, but 3rd year (clerkships) is obviously rough. Accelerated programs have a fairly intense first year, rough second (clerkship), and happy/chill third. The question is do you want your freedom at the beginning of med school, before you know what the hell you want to do with your life, or your third, when you know what clinicals are, know enough to be useful in clincal labs/projects, and can focus on differentiating yourself. I feel like the only thing that could be worse than a 1 year pre-clinical is a 2 year preclinical. On the flipside, I'd probably have different feelings about 1st year if I was enjoying a chill curriculum and LA weather instead of in hustling in Boston

 

[puahate]

Kinda sucks UCLA didn't give you anything.

 

[lalalallala]

I am voting for UCLA.

1. if you don't like NYC then going to a school in NYC is going to be rough. The environment is overwhelming so I see no reason to add stress to a busy 4 years if you don't have to.

2. UCLA is a great school. People say all kinds of things about which school gives you the edge for a competitive speciality but it's all conjecture since you don't know what people wanted to do. I think the school that will give you the best shot at a surgical speciality is the one where you fit and feel the most supported. That's not the same school for everyone.

3. The one year pre-clinical sounds really brutal at Mich. I know other schools do this, but personally I think it just sounds super tough. I think 18months+ is the way to go.

 

[Gilakend]

Just to comment on Michigan (since I just finished their second look).

1. M1 is somewhat challenging but made easier due to flex time quizzing. I personally know a now M2 who would go out very often (~3x per week) during almost all of M1. If you take your quiz on Friday you have the whole weekend off. This is what I plan on doing every week.

2. Next year they are having less quizzes leading to 1-2 quiz free weeks per month.

3. Next year they are adding more breaks, about 5 3-day weekends, a week for thanksgiving, 2 weeks for Christmas, and 2 spring breaks (one in March and one in May) and then a 6 week summer.

However, I agree with everyone else. UCLA seems like best fit, just giving you the most info to make your decision.

 

[taylor316]

Just to comment on Michigan (since I just finished their second look).

1. M1 is somewhat challenging but made easier due to flex time quizzing. I personally know a now M2 who would go out very often (~3x per week) during almost all of M1. If you take your quiz on Friday you have the whole weekend off. This is what I plan on doing every week.

2. Next year they are having less quizzes leading to 1-2 quiz free weeks per month.

3. Next year they are adding more breaks, about 5 3-day weekends, a week for thanksgiving, 2 weeks for Christmas, and 2 spring breaks (one in March and one in May) and then a 6 week summer.

However, I agree with everyone else. UCLA seems like best fit, just giving you the most info to make your decision.

These points were announced at the mich slw? They said they will be quizzing less?

 

[Gilakend]

These points were announced at the mich slw? They said they will be quizzing less?

Yep, they are between either quizzing every other week (2 quiz free weeks per month) or just lowering the number so they’ll have at least 1 quiz free weekend a month. But regardless, there will be less.

 

[rball]

I would recommend UCLA-your happiness and performance in school is paramount.

If all else were equal, yes Columbia would give you an edge in matching into a surgical subspecialty. First they have a significantly stronger track record in these fields. Second, going to Columbia (or even UMich) opens up another region for you come match time. Going to UCLA means that you will be a lifelong CA resident, and it will be very difficult to convince program directors that you are willing to leave and spend 4+ years outside CA. If you are an exceptional candidate this wont be a problem, but if you are just a good/above average candidate this will be a factor. On the other hand if you go to UMich or Columbia, you will have opened up the midwest or east coast respectively, and you can still make a compelling case that you would like to come back to CA. Opening up as many regions as possible is important because surgical subsp are so compettive, and PDs dont want to waste interview slots on individuals they dont think will want to go there. Away rotations are typically not as effective anymore at opening up regions.

That being said, it sounds like you will be significantly happier at UCLA. It is still a great school with a great reputation, and if you absolutely kill it there, you can match into any surgical subspecialty.

If you liked Columbia equally I would highly recommend going there because it would make your life easier. But because it seems you wouldnt be happy there and would much prefer UCLA, UCLA is the way to go.

 

[Trollest]

I feel like OP's subconscious wants to go to Columbia.

You would save a lot by staying home. So I'd vote UCLA as well. NY is expensive dude and you would have no family support.

 

[titanswreath]

UCLA seems the easy choice but as someone who left So Cal to the East coast i have no regrets. There was an initial transition stage but ultimately it helped me grow and opened up experiences i would never have had otherwise.

 

[Aree]

I would recommend UCLA-your happiness and performance in school is paramount.

If all else were equal, yes Columbia would give you an edge in matching into a surgical subspecialty. First they have a significantly stronger track record in these fields. Second, going to Columbia (or even UMich) opens up another region for you come match time. Going to UCLA means that you will be a lifelong CA resident, and it will be very difficult to convince program directors that you are willing to leave and spend 4+ years outside CA. If you are an exceptional candidate this wont be a problem, but if you are just a good/above average candidate this will be a factor. On the other hand if you go to UMich or Columbia, you will have opened up the midwest or east coast respectively, and you can still make a compelling case that you would like to come back to CA. Opening up as many regions as possible is important because surgical subsp are so compettive, and PDs dont want to waste interview slots on individuals they dont think will want to go there. Away rotations are typically not as effective anymore at opening up regions.

That being said, it sounds like you will be significantly happier at UCLA. It is still a great school with a great reputation, and if you absolutely kill it there, you can match into any surgical subspecialty.

If you liked Columbia equally I would highly recommend going there because it would make your life easier. But because it seems you wouldnt be happy there and would much prefer UCLA, UCLA is the way to go.

Thanks very much for your thorough response. I don't disagree with you, but as someone who would like to end up in CA long term, I have heard over and over again that you have better odds of that happening if you stay in-state. I have talked to multiple faculty members at UCLA who straight up told me that it's much harder to come to CA out of state, just as it is more difficult to go from CA to the east coast. And my interviewers at east coast schools who were from CA also told me that their efforts to recruit faculty from UCLA have not been effective for the most part as those people don't want to leave CA. I am thinking of being in academic medicine in CA eventually and it seems to me that setting up a network of connections at UCLA would be an effective way of going about that. What do you think?

 

[Aree]

I feel like OP's subconscious wants to go to Columbia.

You would save a lot by staying home. So I'd vote UCLA as well. NY is expensive dude and you would have no family support.

Haha not really true. I think I originally made the mistake of not caring much about location when I selected schools to apply to but after visiting places realized that it actually can be very important.

 

[Aree]

Thanks again everyone for your replies! Definitely struggling big time with this decision lol. I hope I can make the right decision in the end

 

[dodolol21]

This feels like a pretty easy decision for UCLA. I'm like you in that I'm reaaaally not the NYC type, and am glad to be probably staying near my family/SO in hometown for school as well. cost and prestige are nonfactors, and if you wanna live in CA, why not live in CA for the next 4 years and also simultaneously improve your adds at staying in CA for the years after (residency and then academic practice). No need to delay the gratification lol. I also wouldn't worry too much about Step since if you are hard enough worker to get into these schools you will do just fine on step given strong individual effort.

to summarize, the only real con I'm seeing is a traditional curriculum vs 1.5 year at Columbia. IMO, this is wayyyy minor compared to everything else. I'm sure real medical students would also agree that curriculum shouldnt be a huge factor in deciding since mostly your just gonna be using UFAP Pathoma Sketchy Boards and Beyond etc. and probably not attend lecture anyways. Hope this was helpful 🙂

 

[rball]

Thanks very much for your thorough response. I don't disagree with you, but as someone who would like to end up in CA long term, I have heard over and over again that you have better odds of that happening if you stay in-state. I have talked to multiple faculty members at UCLA who straight up told me that it's much harder to come to CA out of state, just as it is more difficult to go from CA to the east coast. And my interviewers at east coast schools who were from CA also told me that their efforts to recruit faculty from UCLA have not been effective for the most part as those people don't want to leave CA. I am thinking of being in academic medicine in CA eventually and it seems to me that setting up a network of connections at UCLA would be an effective way of going about that. What do you think?

The first part of your comment Is partially true. Yes if you have lived on east coast your entire life, have family there, went to school there, it will be harder to come to CA.

However in your case, if you are from CA and have lived there almost your entire life, have large support system there, etc, and you go to a cream of the crop type school like Columbia, you will not have a hard time convincing residency directors you want to come back home. Take a look at residency rosters for surgical subs at UCSF, UCLA, Stanford and you will see that a ton of these students come from top schools outside of CA such as Columbia. In these fields your goal is to match into the best program possible if you want to end up practicing in CA, and you maximize your odds of doing that at a place like Columbia that churns out top matches in every surgical subspecialty. You also maximize your odds of simply matching into any program in a surgical subspecialty, for the reasons I outlined in my previous post.

In fact the 2nd part of your comment kind of highlights my point: east coast programs know how difficult it is to recruit people from CA, so when they see an applicant who is a lifelong CA resident, they will be more hesitant to extend an interview offer unless that applicant is exceptional. I’ve seen this phenomenon play out firsthand time and time again.

That being said, my advice still stands to go to UCLA. You seem to really want to go there and seems like you would be much happier there, so I would highly recommend it. All of what I said is a moot point if you dont perform well in med school (plus life is too short to spend 4 years at a place you dont enjoy). So go to UCLA, focus on obliterating the boards, churning out multiple pubs, forming connections and getting AOA, and you will do just fine matching into any surgical subspecialty you want to.

 

[pbsdrinkingwhale]

UCLA!!