UCLA vs UCSF

[tooth decay]

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hmm but the way i see it..is that really a problem with the school? or is it a problem of the students? the school wont teach me to cheat...some students come in wanting to cheat their way through so they will, whether they go to ucsf, ucla, harvard, or the moon. so does this make the school "more immoral"?

(as for "no insults intended." give me a break-im no dim-wit, but non-the-less, apology accepted.)

Well as far as the UCLA orthodontics residency program is concerned, it is clearly the school's fault. One cannot get in with a large "donation" unless someone in the school's administration allows it. As far a cheating by students, you are right that the burden of behavior lies with the students. But I dare say that the school's involvement in the latter can be the competitive environment it fosters and the neglect of enforcing ethics codes amongst the students.

(P.S. - I do not like the using the term dim-wit, though I must say that I do enjoy dim-sum when I can)

 

[Khala Jaan]

Well as far as the UCLA orthodontics residency program is concerned, it is clearly the school's fault. One cannot get in with a large "donation" unless someone in the school's administration allows it.

yes this is definitely concerning. i was unaware of this situation.

(P.S. - I do not like the using the term dim-wit, though I must say that I do enjoy dim-sum when I can)

lolll in the future i shall use dim-sum 😛

 

[sacjumpman]

True, but I thought it was funny that at our schools presentation by the UCLA dean, he said that UCLA is the #3 school in the nation for research funding (#1 after hopkins? don't know what happened to #2). Then again, I don't know what types of research he was including.


At the UCSF interview, they really pushed the opportunities available. This includes many dual degree programs, as well as the option for a business certificate or something from USF if you don't want to spend an extra year or two. I don't remember them discussing this at UCLA

Hey harjay,

While Dr. Bibb was talking I was jotting down some notes. She specifically mentioned the following dual degrees: MS in oral biology, PhD, MBA at Anderson (5 year DDS/MBA dual degree), and a Masters in Public Health.

I didn't catch the details, but just thought I'd throw that in there in case you were interested.

 

[Fonz]

Well I'm not sure about UCLA but I remember UCSF talking about their many community clinics and how you get placed in a few of them to treat patients in rural areas. I think that is a cool experience to be out there in the boonies doing dentistry for a bit. It sounds like a good break from the usual and you are really helping people in need. I know ther probably isnt too much to do out there but I guess you can hang out with your classmates or do some outdoorsy stuff which I am into.

 

[in her drawer]

oh and the other concern i have is, in your experience (speaking to those who are ucsf students), have the ucsf professors been treating you as peers? of course i understand there may be a few exceptions but im talking about the overall campus set-up..is it supportive or not? are the students helping each other and working together or is there a lot of student rivalry and competition?

Everything's great here. I haven't had any problems with treatment from the professors. As for competition, I wouldn't say we have that. What we do have are a lot of self-motivated people. Speaking of which...I gotta go motivate myself to study!

 

[Fonz]

Everything's great here. I haven't had any problems with treatment from the professors. As for competition, I wouldn't say we have that. What we do have are a lot of self-motivated people. Speaking of which...I gotta go motivate myself to study!

I think the main thing people are taking about here is the treatment of students in the clinic. Like they they don't trust you with certain cases and/or belittle your abilities. That's what I've heard at least.

 

[UCSF2012]

I think the main thing people are taking about here is the treatment of students in the clinic. Like they they don't trust you with certain cases and/or belittle your abilities. That's what I've heard at least.

I don't think I'd trust myself or any dental student in America, either.

 

[Khala Jaan]

yes i agree...i believe they can encourage students to do better while praising your good qualities and getting visibly excited about a student's performance. so while yes, they wont "trust" us per say, they can encourage us to move forward and check our work and it wont feel as bad.

I think the main thing people are taking about here is the treatment of students in the clinic. Like they they don't trust you with certain cases and/or belittle your abilities. That's what I've heard at least.

 

[Mach band]

I think the main thing people are taking about here is the treatment of students in the clinic. Like they they don't trust you with certain cases and/or belittle your abilities. That's what I've heard at least.

IMO, if you do your homework, meaning be prepared for the procedure planned for the day, it's highly unlikely that the row instructor will mistreat you. On the other hand, I agree that there are very few profs that will only see/listen to what they want to see/hear. This is definitely irritating to some students me included. I would think this exists at most schools. We have different professors throughout the week. So if you have problem with one particular professor, it's only one or two sessions per week. If this is the case, you can sign up to do emergency to work around the problem. Or you can schedule a endo/pros patient that session to avoid working with the prof. I don't see it as a big issue. I mentioned before, and I'm saying it again, if there is a problem, it is the student. No school is perfect, one needs to see the big pluses and work around to small minuses.

 

[Fonz]

IMO, if you do your homework, meaning be prepared for the procedure planned for the day, it's highly unlikely that the row instructor will mistreat you. On the other hand, I agree that there are very few profs that will only see/listen to what they want to see/hear. This is definitely irritating to some students me included. I would think this exists at most schools. We have different professors throughout the week. So if you have problem with one particular professor, it's only one or two sessions per week. If this is the case, you can sign up to do emergency to work around the problem. Or you can schedule a endo/pros patient that session to avoid working with the prof. I don't see it as a big issue. I mentioned before, and I'm saying it again, if there is a problem, it is the student. No school is perfect, one needs to see the big pluses and work around to small minuses.

ok well what about many cases being referred to the specialty programs. I was told that it is hard to find good cases because the specialties try to take them all. BTW I'm getting all my info on UCSF from GPRs at the clinic I volunteer at. There are 4 of them all recent UCSF grads from '07. I really only got the opinion from two of them and I'll talk to the other two on thursday I hope. Its just that NONE of them really said that they LOVED the school and one person practically hates the school. I asked if he had to make the choice again would he choose UCSF and he said 'no' without hesitation.

 

[dentstd]

ok well what about many cases being referred to the specialty programs. I was told that it is hard to find good cases because the specialties try to take them all. BTW I'm getting all my info on UCSF from GPRs at the clinic I volunteer at. There are 4 of them all recent UCSF grads from '07. I really only got the opinion from two of them and I'll talk to the other two on thursday I hope. Its just that NONE of them really said that they LOVED the school and one person practically hates the school. I asked if he had to make the choice again would he choose UCSF and he said 'no' without hesitation.

makes me wonder if it's hatred for the intensity of the dental curriculum tranferred to the school. I knew from the start that I'd hate any school I go to. in medicine, you get mocked regardless of teh school you go to.

 

[Fonz]

So I talked to one of the other resident today and she said UCLA is probably a better school than UCSF. She noted about the changing staff and the interim dean would make things a bit disorganized. All of the reisdents talk about how UCSF is not a good school if you want to do general dentistry. You don't get many good cases because the specialties take them from you. They really try to set students up to do a specialty but they are good at it though. I can imagine UCLA is similar in that regard too.

 

[lnsip9reg]

i second in her drawer's opinion about UCSF, i'm enjoying it here. we have our complaints of course, but what school doesn't? i don't think it's anything more than a little commiseration between classmates 🙄

regarding UCLA's "scandal", it won't affect you all by the time you graduate in 2012. do people even remember that far back? doubtful. there'll be other school's with cheating scandals by then anyway, so chill

in her drawer and i are wrapping up our first quarter here, one more exam! i don't know about other schools, but having ISO is great! we're still in class for 32hrs a week, so it's not as if we're slacking. but a little time to rest and collect oneself? priceless 👍

 

[Mach band]

So I talked to one of the other resident today and she said UCLA is probably a better school than UCSF. She noted about the changing staff and the interim dean would make things a bit disorganized. All of the reisdents talk about how UCSF is not a good school if you want to do general dentistry. You don't get many good cases because the specialties take them from you. They really try to set students up to do a specialty but they are good at it though. I can imagine UCLA is similar in that regard too.

When I was 2nd year, couple of four years told me that they hated our school and how the clinic was run as well. They said similar things as you mentioned. Now that I've been in clinic for two quarters, I can tell you (again) that it is the student not the school.
I don't think post grads take patients away from pre-doc students. For Endo, they don't let you do second molars. For pros, they don't let you work on cases that require opening vertical dimension or changing occlusion. I think those are the only exceptions. Everyday we have 2-4 endos/pros/perio (each) floating on the floor. The pros lists are always long and the Endo/Perio are paged frequently. You can see how many cases predoc students work on. I feel very fortunate for that. Everytime we have a question, there's someone for us to get second opinion.
UCSF is not set up to gear students away from general dentistry. I think it's very balanced between both worlds. Whichever direction you choose or will choose, you will be fine here if you put in your effort.
PS: I'm not saying that I LOVE this school because, for me, LOVE is for something else. But I'm happy and enjoy being here.

 

[rsalasv]

Whoa, I've NEVER heard ANYONE complaining that they had trouble finding patients at ucsf....

Anyways, I'm a D1 here and I chose to come over Columbia and UPenn and am loving it here! I just finished my first quarter and think I learned more during the past few months than I did during most of undergrad, haha.

UCLA's probably a great place, but I don't like the fact that it's not a true pass-fail system. Other than that, they're both top schools!

 

[UCSF2012]

I'm not crazy about the letters of commendation. They take place of rankings and achieve close to the same thing as grades.

 

[ucla4lifer]

Whoa, I've NEVER heard ANYONE complaining that they had trouble finding patients at ucsf....

Anyways, I'm a D1 here and I chose to come over Columbia and UPenn and am loving it here! I just finished my first quarter and think I learned more during the past few months than I did during most of undergrad, haha.

UCLA's probably a great place, but I don't like the fact that it's not a true pass-fail system. Other than that, they're both top schools!

What do you mean UCLA is not a true pass/fail system? Last time I looked it was UCSF that has the high pass/pass/fail system not UCLA.

 

[winlin]

What do you mean UCLA is not a true pass/fail system? Last time I looked it was UCSF that has the high pass/pass/fail system not UCLA.

We have pass fail for sure...and our honors or high pass don't matter at all, it's just to boost your self-esteem if it's low. For the most part UCLA P/NP amounts to trying to score 75% for the majority of classes, a few 70%s for some classes, and maybe one 80% in one class that wasn't too bad. Hopefully that helps.

 

[charlestweed]

UCLA has Honor Pass aka EPR (exceptional performance report), Pass, NP, and Marginal Pass (for those who barely pass or failed and then passed the makeup exam). The top 8-10 performers in the class will receive honor pass (EPR). If a student has7-8 EPR’s in a quarter, he/she will be on the Dean’s list for that quarter…..and this will help the student (well, not a lot) if he/she wants to specialize in the future. This was 9 years ago….it may be different now.

 

[Lodo]

a couple questions: what does "passing" mean at UCSF and UCLA? (is it anything above 50% or does it vary from class to class? is it the same for both schools?) secondly, UCSF gets a long summer break after the first year while UCLA students only get like 2 weeks, right? how long is the summer break after the first year at UCSF summer anyway?

 

[dat_student]

UCLA has Honor Pass aka EPR (exceptional performance report), Pass, NP, and Marginal Pass (for those who barely pass or failed and then passed the makeup exam). The top 8-10 performers in the class will receive honor pass (EPR). If a student has7-8 EPR's in a quarter, he/she will be on the Dean's list for that quarter…..and this will help the student (well, not a lot) if he/she wants to specialize in the future. This was 9 years ago….it may be different now.

We don't have the dean's list anymore.

 

[dat_student]

True, but I thought it was funny that at our schools presentation by the UCLA dean, he said that UCLA is the #3 school in the nation for research funding (#1 after hopkins? don't know what happened to #2). Then again, I don't know what types of research he was including.


At the UCSF interview, they really pushed the opportunities available. This includes many dual degree programs, as well as the option for a business certificate or something from USF if you don't want to spend an extra year or two. I don't remember them discussing this at UCLA

I've certainly enjoyed research opportunities & scholarships & grants at UCLA. In the past yr and a half, I won ~26,000 dollars in scholarships & grants, including one for my own research project. So UCLA certainly has a ton of research opportunities.

 

[dat_student]

UCSF owns the healthcare reputation in Cali. Aside from dentistry, it has 3 other schools: medicine, nursing, and pharmacy. It tops the list in US News in all three of of these fields. Somehow, I don't think the school'll slack off in dentistry. The board of trustees won't have that. Plus, the NIH seems to believe very highly in UCSF, because they give the most money to them.

UCLA needs more defending than UCSF. UCLA has name recognition because it's a full university and has a sports team. Lots of students go there, including more high scorers.

UCLA has NIH money & good funding too. I just won an NIH grant 🙂

 

[dat_student]

i think ucla is cool for undergrad since you have more time to party and go the game, my dental students at UCLA says the experience is hell and that you have no life and she said she just want to get out of here

You must study even if you go to the easiest dental school in the country, whichever that may be. Here at UCLA, I have had time to be involved in committees, go to heatlth fairs, meetings, seminars, do research, watch a ton of movies, theme parks & a ton more. There are so many movie theaters in westwood. I must pass at least 3 of them every time I go to school. I can't resist the temptation of watching good movies whenever I get a chance loooooooooooool

 

[Fonz]

UCSF owns the healthcare reputation in Cali. Aside from dentistry, it has 3 other schools: medicine, nursing, and pharmacy. It tops the list in US News in all three of of these fields. Somehow, I don't think the school'll slack off in dentistry. The board of trustees won't have that. Plus, the NIH seems to believe very highly in UCSF, because they give the most money to them.

UCLA needs more defending than UCSF. UCLA has name recognition because it's a full university and has a sports team. Lots of students go there, including more high scorers.

Yeah but reputation is kind of a silly thing to go on. I think when it comes to dentistry no one knows or cares where people have gone to school it seems. If you want to talk about reputation I think UCLA has UCSF beat because majority of the general public doesn't know anything about health care schools and their academic reputation. There are many people who haven't even heard of UCSF even in CA. UCLA is known across the nation (yes because of sports and big undergrad too). My friend told me that if he had the choice between a UCSF dentist and a UCLA dentist he would choose the UCLA dentist because of general reputation. He is a UCD E.E. grad who lives in the bay area and if he doesn't know anything about UCSF's health care reputation then what is the likely hood the general population would?

 

[UCSF2012]

Yeah but reputation is kind of a silly thing to go on.

I'd be cautious about making statements like this, as it could discredit your entire argument. Reputation has as it bases history and track record. Those form the entirety of determining any institution's quality.

People who have not picked up an issue of US news will not know that UCSF is higher ranked. In fact, they won't know the general quality of any school. UCLA will have name recognition to more of the general public because of undergrad and sports. UCSF will have better rep to the general healthcare population because of its US News rankings. UCLA will have better rep in dental admissions because more high scorers go there. I'm just one of the minority who prefers UCSF for one reason of another, and Kaala Jaan's one of the few others. I do notice that our AA is dropping this year. It's dropping for most schools, but ours by a bit larger increment unless admissions steps it up for the 2nd batch of acceptances.

And patients don't care about rankings, as they know nothing of where dentists went until AFTER they're already at the clinic. They also often don't have a choice of where to go, because there's a shortage.

UCLA's a fine institution, but I knew from the start I wanted UCSF.

 

[Khala Jaan]

I'd be cautious about making statements like this, as it could discredit your entire argument. Reputation has as it bases history and track record. Those form the entirety of determining any institution's quality.

People who have not picked up an issue of US news will not know that UCSF is higher ranked. In fact, they won't know the general quality of any school. UCLA will have name recognition to more of the general public because of undergrad and sports. UCSF will have better rep to the general healthcare population because of its US News rankings. UCLA will have better rep in dental admissions because more high scorers go there. I'm just one of the minority who prefers UCSF for one reason of another, and Kaala Jaan's one of the few others. I do notice that our AA is dropping this year. It's dropping for most schools, but ours by a bit larger increment unless admissions steps it up for the 2nd batch of acceptances.

And patients don't care about rankings, as they know nothing of where dentists went until AFTER they're already at the clinic. They also often don't have a choice of where to go, because there's a shortage.

UCLA's a fine institution, but I knew from the start I wanted UCSF.

for myself, i am going for factors aside from their name recognition...when I went to ucla, they were very excited for future changes including the integration of their classes and free time in our schedules...when i went to ucsf's interview, i found they had already had this implemented in their curriculum/schedule (i also asked my sis, and she said they too had this system--i know its strange that we havent had these convo's before, but hte truth is i did not have any articulated questions to ask my sis before applications and interviews)...there are other factors...but im still waiting to be admitted...then ill make my lists and start adding up the points 😛

 

[Fonz]

I'd be cautious about making statements like this, as it could discredit your entire argument. Reputation has as it bases history and track record. Those form the entirety of determining any institution's quality.

People who have not picked up an issue of US news will not know that UCSF is higher ranked. In fact, they won't know the general quality of any school. UCLA will have name recognition to more of the general public because of undergrad and sports. UCSF will have better rep to the general healthcare population because of its US News rankings. UCLA will have better rep in dental admissions because more high scorers go there. I'm just one of the minority who prefers UCSF for one reason of another, and Kaala Jaan's one of the few others. I do notice that our AA is dropping this year. It's dropping for most schools, but ours by a bit larger increment unless admissions steps it up for the 2nd batch of acceptances.

And patients don't care about rankings, as they know nothing of where dentists went until AFTER they're already at the clinic. They also often don't have a choice of where to go, because there's a shortage.

UCLA's a fine institution, but I knew from the start I wanted UCSF.

Well before meeting with some grads from UCSF (as I mentioned before) UCSF was my dream school ever since high school. Even after hearing how they weren't happy with it I was in denial because I didn't want to hear bad things about the school that I put on a pedestal for so long. I guess I should have added that you need to know what the reputation is for and how that relates to what you want to do. If you just want to do GP then high research and heavy academic/didactic reputation is probably not for you. If you want to do specialty, research, and teaching then that school will be good for you. I guess you can either view reputation in terms of what it means as a student in that school and what it means to potential patients. Yes that statement is wrong because I didn't mention how it applied to me. Actually one of the GPRs said it to me (not those words exactly) after I told him that reputation is one of the reasons I wanted to go to UCSF but I wasn't interested in specialty. He pointed out that it would be better to go to a more clinical school rather than going to UCSF for its reputation of research and academics.

 

[Suren911]

Two pages of debates and I'm still unsure which is better - UCLA or UCSF. What's the verdict, folks? We should take a poll.

 

[Fonz]

Two pages of debates and I'm still unsure which is better - UCLA or UCSF. What's the verdict, folks? We should take a poll.

I think no one can say one is better than the other. It is a matter of personal preference. You can still make a poll just to see if more people on sdn would choose one school but that won't mean it is the better school.

 

[Suren911]

^I realized that. Each school has its own qualities the other doesn't. I guess I was just curious of a general concensus.

 

[UCSF2012]

^I realized that. Each school has its own qualities the other doesn't. I guess I was just curious of a general concensus.

You won't find an answer. No student can ever know of a school's relative quality to another school. They can know how many specialists a certain school produces, and they tend to go to those schools.

 

[Lodo]

a couple questions: what does "passing" mean at UCSF and UCLA? (is it anything above 50% or does it vary from class to class? is it the same for both schools?) secondly, UCSF gets a long summer break after the first year while UCLA students only get like 2 weeks, right? how long is the summer break after the first year at UCSF summer anyway?

can someone answer me this one? thanks🙂

 

[hattrack04]

can someone answer me this one? thanks🙂

I can answer the first question for UCLA: a passing grade varies from class to class. It may be 60% in one class, or 70% in another

 

[dat_student]

Two pages of debates and I'm still unsure which is better - UCLA or UCSF. What's the verdict, folks? We should take a poll.

You must figure which is better for you. For some people, UCLA is better. For some people, UCSF is better. For some people, other dental schools are better. Talk to students. Visit each school again. Talk to the faculty. Then make a decision & don't look back. I love UCLA. It has created great opportunities for me and honestly I believe I've learned a lot. There are a lot of professors that I really like.

 

[dat_student]

a couple questions: what does "passing" mean at UCSF and UCLA? (is it anything above 50% or does it vary from class to class? is it the same for both schools?) secondly, UCSF gets a long summer break after the first year while UCLA students only get like 2 weeks, right? how long is the summer break after the first year at UCSF summer anyway? can someone answer me this one? thanks🙂

You pass operative dentistry when you are able to do an operative procedure on a patient without harming the patient. You pass pharmacology when you know enough to not kill your patients. You pass oral pathology when you can diagnose oral diseases. That's passing. Who cares about the percentage? If you study you pass. Based on what I've heard 87-88 of the 88 students graduate from UCLA. One word of advice: don't aim too low. You shouldn't be thinking about just passing before even going to dental school. Do your best. Learn as much as you can. Try to build a good foundation for your future & don't worry about anything else. The rest will happen automatically.

 

[Mach band]

a couple questions: what does "passing" mean at UCSF and UCLA? (is it anything above 50% or does it vary from class to class? is it the same for both schools?) secondly, UCSF gets a long summer break after the first year while UCLA students only get like 2 weeks, right? how long is the summer break after the first year at UCSF summer anyway?

At UCSF, passing grade for science courses are 70 and 75 in some courses. A few courses will give you letter of commendation if you score 90 or above. Pre-clinical and clinical exams are different. They grade you in many different areas. If the mistake is severe enough, they will fail you. For example, if your crown is high in occlusion, that is an automatic fail to some professors while others may give you a NS. If you get enough NS, you will fail. Some pre-clinical courses will give you a number while you only get a P or NP for clincal exam. It's more for the requirement. Your daily work on patient, however, is graded on scale of 1 to 5. The summer is almost 3 months. Hope that helps!

 

[Lodo]

Thanks Mach band!