UCSD vs Pitt

[LaDottoressa]

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I'm trying to decide between Pitt and UCSD. While I know these x vs y threads are a bit silly I've spent many hours debating my feelings and just feel like I'm going around and around in circles.

Pitt:
+Progressive curriculum (vs traditional at UCSD)
+ H/P/F, on percentage (vs UCSD on a curve)
+ Amazing hospitals (actually don't know anything about SD's hospitals, anyone?)
+ Low cost of living
+ 6 weeks for boards (vs 4 weeks at UCSD)

UCSD: (as Ca resident)
+ In an amazing (and warm) city
+ Should make it easier to get a CA residency (?)
+Don't have financial info yet, but presumably cheaper (although I have good aid from Pitt, so it won't be as stark as the numbers appear. but I woulnd't be dependent on Pitt coming through with aid each year.)

Unfortunately I don't have friends/family in either city. (So I wonder if UCSD wins in that round, because it will be easier to lure visitors to San Diego?)

I'm not particularly driven in a certain direction yet, but my potential interests include neurology/psychiatry/pediatrics/ER/derm. (Yes, I know they all have very little in common, but they're all appealing for various reasons.)

My number one criteria for picking is that I want to go to the most supportive, happy environment that I can.

Anyone want to chime in?

 

[BananaSplit]

Just a few factoids for you to consider:

UCSD's H/P/F is based on a curve, Honors grades go to the top 10-15%, and the fail line is almost always set at 65% or 70%. I have never heard of a prof moving the fail line above 70% and if anything, the curve is to ensure that new professors who write exams that are too difficult do not end up flunking the entire class. In other words, the curve system exists so that the fail line can be moved lower than 65% or 70% in the case of an extraordinarily difficult test, not to fail a certain percentage of students.

Boards study time. The Student Council is working on changing amt of time for board study. Can't promise you any changes, but the second years who just took the boards managed to get more board study time than last years students by switching some of their classes around.

San Diego has a couple of hospitals. I wouldn't say any of them are world-renowned. We certainly don't have an MD-Anderson or a Sloan-Kettering, but we do have very high quality hospitals where patient care is awesome. Admittedly, University Hospital in Hillcrest is unremarkable, but we have one of the best VA hospitals in the country on campus. Thornton Hospital is the most patient-friendly and beautiful hospital I have ever seen. It looks more like a five-star hotel than a hospital.

Neuro is religion at UCSD. If you're interested in any type of neuro research: Alzheimer's, stem cell regeneration of central neurons, learning, etc. this is a great place to do it. You can do research with faculty with co-appointments at Salk, Scripps, and Burnham Institutes. Basic neurology is extremely well-taught here by Mark Kritzchevsky; he's won the Kaiser Teaching award so many times that he is no longer eligible to be nominated.

I can't really speak about the other specialties you're interested in because I have yet to interact with profs from those departments.

As for the supportive, happy environment, I know that UCSD has a reputation for being malignant, and I've heard stories from previous classes about how unsupportive the administration was in the past, but I haven't heard many complaints from the 1st and 2nd years. We have two new deans: Dr. Kelly and Dr. Moutier who are both quite responsive to student concerns and needs. There is a multi-layer advising system so that in your first year, you have four advisors: an OSA advisor, a big sib, a fourth year mentor, and a faculty advisor, so that if you have any questions, one of these people will have the answer.

Anyhow, I think you should go with your gut or if you have the cash and the time, maybe you should visit the schools again. There are about 40 first years- soon to be second years - who are doing research here this summer and we'd be happy to hang out with you.

Please let me know if you have any questions.

 

[GiantGiantsFan]

Try this website. You can pick up to three schools and compare them, based on student surveys:

www.amsa.org/premed/medsurvey/

 

[LaDottoressa]

UCSD's H/P/F is based on a curve, Honors grades go to the top 10-15%, and the fail line is almost always set at 65% or 70%. I have never heard of a prof moving the fail line above 70% and if anything, the curve is to ensure that new professors who write exams that are too difficult do not end up flunking the entire class. In other words, the curve system exists so that the fail line can be moved lower than 65% or 70% in the case of an extraordinarily difficult test, not to fail a certain percentage of students.

So you don't feel like having the top honors deal makes anyone more competitive with classmates, less willing to help, etc?

Boards study time. The Student Council is working on changing amt of time for board study. Can't promise you any changes, but the second years who just took the boards managed to get more board study time than last years students by switching some of their classes around.

Can i ask for more details on how that worked? How much time did they end up getting?

San Diego has a couple of hospitals. I wouldn't say any of them are world-renowned. We certainly don't have an MD-Anderson or a Sloan-Kettering, but we do have very high quality hospitals where patient care is awesome. Admittedly, University Hospital in Hillcrest is unremarkable, but we have one of the best VA hospitals in the country on campus. Thornton Hospital is the most patient-friendly and beautiful hospital I have ever seen. It looks more like a five-star hotel than a hospital.

What year are you? If you're on rotations now can you comment on the atmosphere in the hospital towards med students and teaching, etc?

Neuro is religion at UCSD. If you're interested in any type of neuro research: Alzheimer's, stem cell regeneration of central neurons, learning, etc. this is a great place to do it. You can do research with faculty with co-appointments at Salk, Scripps, and Burnham Institutes. Basic neurology is extremely well-taught here by Mark Kritzchevsky; he's won the Kaiser Teaching award so many times that he is no longer eligible to be nominated.

This is definitely one of the reasons I'm super excited about UCSD. 🙂

I can't really speak about the other specialties you're interested in because I have yet to interact with profs from those departments.

As for the supportive, happy environment, I know that UCSD has a reputation for being malignant, and I've heard stories from previous classes about how unsupportive the administration was in the past, but I haven't heard many complaints from the 1st and 2nd years. We have two new deans: Dr. Kelly and Dr. Moutier who are both quite responsive to student concerns and needs. There is a multi-layer advising system so that in your first year, you have four advisors: an OSA advisor, a big sib, a fourth year mentor, and a faculty advisor, so that if you have any questions, one of these people will have the answer.

How many people per class? Does it feel like a pretty cohesive group or pretty segmented?

Can you comment on the tutoring program. That seemed like a big asset.

Anyhow, I think you should go with your gut or if you have the cash and the time, maybe you should visit the schools again. There are about 40 first years- soon to be second years - who are doing research here this summer and we'd be happy to hang out with you.

Unfortunately I'm lacking in both cash and time so I'm dependent upon the kindness of strangers like you. 🙂 And as for my gut, well, it tells me something different every day!

 

[LaDottoressa]

Try this website. You can pick up to three schools and compare them, based on student surveys:

www.amsa.org/premed/medsurvey/

Thanks for the link. I had actually already looked there and was disappointed that only 4 UCSD students had responded so I didn't feel like I could take the feedback as seriously as I would have liked.

 

[GiantGiantsFan]

I will be an MS1 next year at Pitt. Did you get a chance to attend Second Look weekend? I did, and I have mainly nice things to say about Pitt. The student body seems supportive, and didnt come off as being clichy. The administration seems supportive. The new Dean is very research oriented, and he has been successful in driving up Pitt's research funding and name in general. Like UCSD, Pitt is a top place for neuro/psych. They have a Neuroscience Concentration program that looks really cool. PM me if you would like more info on this aspect of Pitt. Their curriculum, which is in a block schedule format, is very popular among their students.

One of the things I like most about Pitt is its constant self-evaluation and self-revision. The administration regards student input very highly and adjusts its curriculum accordingly. They revised the curriculum just two years ago, and the changes have been very popular among students. I think that their continual reform shows that Pitt cares about their students' learning and is really striving to improve its medical education.

My only reservation about Pitt is the city. I have spent this past year in Los Angeles, and I have definitely enjoyed the sunny weather. I will miss this at Pitt. Some students seem to like Pittsburgh and some seem to dislike it. It is a blue-collar city; it didn't seem very cosmopolitan to me. On the positive side, at least it is near the East Coast (close to my home region), and it is big. It also has CMU nearby, so it cant be that dull.

 

[jennben4]

this is a recent post and obviously you weren't holding both places to start with. was one of the two a waitlist offer? is so, which one? just curious as i am still eagerly awaiting a positive outcome off the pitt waitlist. 🙂 sorry i have no useful input for you, other than a very self-serving "choose ucsd." i obviously love pitt, but i know nothing about ucsd...

 

[LaDottoressa]

I will be an MS1 next year at Pitt. Did you get a chance to attend Second Look weekend? I did, and I have mainly nice things to say about Pitt. The student body seems supportive, and didnt come off as being clichy. The administration seems supportive. The new Dean is very research oriented, and he has been successful in driving up Pitt's research funding and name in general. Like UCSD, Pitt is a top place for neuro/psych. They have a Neuroscience Concentration program that looks really cool. PM me if you would like more info on this aspect of Pitt. Their curriculum, which is in a block schedule format, is very popular among their students.

One of the things I like most about Pitt is its constant self-evaluation and self-revision. The administration regards student input very highly and adjusts its curriculum accordingly. They revised the curriculum just two years ago, and the changes have been very popular among students. I think that their continual reform shows that Pitt cares about their students' learning and is really striving to improve its medical education.

My only reservation about Pitt is the city. I have spent this past year in Los Angeles, and I have definitely enjoyed the sunny weather. I will miss this at Pitt. Some students seem to like Pittsburgh and some seem to dislike it. It is a blue-collar city; it didn't seem very cosmopolitan to me. On the positive side, at least it is near the East Coast (close to my home region), and it is big. It also has CMU nearby, so it cant be that dull.

I definitely agree with you. I have been impressed with how seriously Pitt takes self-improvement and it is a HUGE reason I am interested in their program.

I did not get to attend 2nd look weekend. Can you please share your impressions of the students and the atmosphere? (either here or PM me)

 

[LaDottoressa]

this is a recent post and obviously you weren't holding both places to start with. was one of the two a waitlist offer? is so, which one? just curious as i am still eagerly awaiting a positive outcome off the pitt waitlist. 🙂 sorry i have no useful input for you, other than a very self-serving "choose ucsd." i obviously love pitt, but i know nothing about ucsd...

UCSD was a waitlist offer. I wish you luck with the Pitt waitlist regardless of what ends up happening with me. 🙂

 

[hapkidochic]

a bit about pitt...

i just finished up my first year here. i'll admit we definitely had some bumps with the new curriculum, but as someone has already mentioned, the administration is extremely responsive to student comments and things will likely be much smoother for the incoming class and beyond.

About the specialties you're interested in...Western Psych is right across the street, EM is one of Pitt's strongest specialties, and we have one of the best children's hospitals in the nation. You can't really go wrong. To be honest, i really don't know much about our neuro program, but i can say that our neuro class was one of the best classes we had all year.

Board study is actually 6 weeks plus some. We get 6 weeks off, to use however you'd like. You can use it all for board study, or you can take boards a little early and get a bit of a vacation after. But preceding these 6 weeks is a class called ICS, which is only a few hours a day and is dedicated to presenting integrated PBL-style cases to help prepare you for boards. The usefulness of ICS has been debated, but regardless, the afternoons during ICS are free time for board study.

I'm from san francisco so i was also concerned with how likely it would be to match at a cali residency. Pitt students match all over, including cali. When looking at match lists, keep in mind that most UCSD students are from cali and are more likely to want to stay in cali; their matchlist will reflect this. Pitt, on the other hand, has students from all over, not all of whom are dying to match in cali, so its match list geography is more diverse

one last thing...with the new curriculum, we start rotations early. We'll begin our rotations in the second week of May of our second year. No one at pitt will be able to comment on how good/bad this is because my class will be the first to experience it. But i'm looking forward to it.

hope that helps!

 

[LaDottoressa]

Oh man, the pressure is on -- I need to decide tomorrow.

When I make a giant list of pros and cons, I think on paper Pitt has more of what I want. HOWEVER UCSD would cost me $10k less per year. Are the things that I have a better feeling about with Pitt worth $40k (plus more once I pay interest)?

I'm leaning towards saying they're not. Of course, if I end up miserable at UCSD then clearly the $40k would have been worth it. But philosophically I beleive that everyone is as happy as they're going to be based much more on personality and outlook than circumstances.

If I'm unsatisfied with UCSD I can at least comfort myself knowing a concrete reason why I chose it. If I'm unsatisfied at Pitt, well then I just made a mistake. And like I said above, I think I'm going to be relatively equally happy or unsatisfied either place.

So that's what the logical part of my brain is telling me. The other part of me says you should just take a risk and go with your gut on Pitt.

Any last words of wisdom?

 

[LaDottoressa]

Just curious, it looks like the poll is turning out 2-1 UCSD. How come?

 

[criminallyinane]

There are a lot of people on this board who want very badly to get into Pitt. If you're lukewarm about it, go to UCSD and save yourself the money. You'll make someone very happy who really wants to go to Pitt.

I have heard that SD students have a ton of classtime which would piss me off, so I would choose Pitt for the curriculum, but it sounds like you're looking for reasons to choose SD, so just... choose it. Like you said, it'll work out in the end.

The poll is probably favoring SD because it's more highly ranked (by one whole spot, but this board lives and dies by rankings) and also because of the location.

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

Oh man, the pressure is on -- I need to decide tomorrow.

When I make a giant list of pros and cons, I think on paper Pitt has more of what I want. HOWEVER UCSD would cost me $10k less per year. Are the things that I have a better feeling about with Pitt worth $40k (plus more once I pay interest)?

I'm leaning towards saying they're not. Of course, if I end up miserable at UCSD then clearly the $40k would have been worth it. But philosophically I beleive that everyone is as happy as they're going to be based much more on personality and outlook than circumstances.

If I'm unsatisfied with UCSD I can at least comfort myself knowing a concrete reason why I chose it. If I'm unsatisfied at Pitt, well then I just made a mistake. And like I said above, I think I'm going to be relatively equally happy or unsatisfied either place.

So that's what the logical part of my brain is telling me. The other part of me says you should just take a risk and go with your gut on Pitt.

Any last words of wisdom?

Go with UCSD. It seems to be somewhat stronger for neuro than Pitt. If you were interested in immunology, I would say do Pitt, since it is one of the very best in the world for certain fields of immunology (organ transplantation, cancer). But since you want neuro, and it seems you just like UCSD, go ahaed and do UCSD.

 

[LaDottoressa]

There are a lot of people on this board who want very badly to get into Pitt. If you're lukewarm about it, go to UCSD and save yourself the money. You'll make someone very happy who really wants to go to Pitt.

I have heard that SD students have a ton of classtime which would piss me off, so I would choose Pitt for the curriculum, but it sounds like you're looking for reasons to choose SD, so just... choose it. Like you said, it'll work out in the end.

The poll is probably favoring SD because it's more highly ranked (by one whole spot, but this board lives and dies by rankings) and also because of the location.

I wouldn't say I'm looking for reasons to choose UCSD. More like, I'm trying to justify not going to the school I like more (Pitt) for $ reasons and it's hard to know how money should fit into the equation.

 

[LaDottoressa]

Go with UCSD. It seems to be somewhat stronger for neuro than Pitt. If you were interested in immunology, I would say do Pitt, since it is one of the very best in the world for certain fields of immunology (organ transplantation, cancer). But since you want neuro, and it seems you just like UCSD, go ahaed and do UCSD.

Wow, I think it's really interesting that I'm coming across as biased towards liking UCSD cause it's really the opposite.

Relating to the rest of your post, are you under hte impression it matters what fields the school you attend is strong in? (Something I've been trying to figure out and it seems like most people say no...)

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

Wow, I think it's really interesting that I'm coming across as biased towards liking UCSD cause it's really the opposite.

Relating to the rest of your post, are you under hte impression it matters what fields the school you attend is strong in? (Something I've been trying to figure out and it seems like most people say no...)

If you want to do research, I think it's very important. If you are interested in purely clinical, it probably is a factor to consider but not that important. Pedagogy has little to do with research.

 

[MiesVanDerMom]

That is too funny. I love pittsburgh but could CMU be any more boring? Elitist Nerdsville. I know, my husband went there. Pittsburgh is awesome though if you're not a Coastal type. Or a Western type or a Midwestern type. We're an aquired taste. Like Iron City Beer and pierogies....

 

[secretasianman]

Just a few factoids for you to consider:

UCSD's H/P/F is based on a curve, Honors grades go to the top 10-15%, and the fail line is almost always set at 65% or 70%. I have never heard of a prof moving the fail line above 70% and if anything, the curve is to ensure that new professors who write exams that are too difficult do not end up flunking the entire class. In other words, the curve system exists so that the fail line can be moved lower than 65% or 70% in the case of an extraordinarily difficult test, not to fail a certain percentage of students.

Boards study time. The Student Council is working on changing amt of time for board study. Can't promise you any changes, but the second years who just took the boards managed to get more board study time than last years students by switching some of their classes around.

San Diego has a couple of hospitals. I wouldn't say any of them are world-renowned. We certainly don't have an MD-Anderson or a Sloan-Kettering, but we do have very high quality hospitals where patient care is awesome. Admittedly, University Hospital in Hillcrest is unremarkable, but we have one of the best VA hospitals in the country on campus. Thornton Hospital is the most patient-friendly and beautiful hospital I have ever seen. It looks more like a five-star hotel than a hospital.

Neuro is religion at UCSD. If you're interested in any type of neuro research: Alzheimer's, stem cell regeneration of central neurons, learning, etc. this is a great place to do it. You can do research with faculty with co-appointments at Salk, Scripps, and Burnham Institutes. Basic neurology is extremely well-taught here by Mark Kritzchevsky; he's won the Kaiser Teaching award so many times that he is no longer eligible to be nominated.

I can't really speak about the other specialties you're interested in because I have yet to interact with profs from those departments.

As for the supportive, happy environment, I know that UCSD has a reputation for being malignant, and I've heard stories from previous classes about how unsupportive the administration was in the past, but I haven't heard many complaints from the 1st and 2nd years. We have two new deans: Dr. Kelly and Dr. Moutier who are both quite responsive to student concerns and needs. There is a multi-layer advising system so that in your first year, you have four advisors: an OSA advisor, a big sib, a fourth year mentor, and a faculty advisor, so that if you have any questions, one of these people will have the answer.

Anyhow, I think you should go with your gut or if you have the cash and the time, maybe you should visit the schools again. There are about 40 first years- soon to be second years - who are doing research here this summer and we'd be happy to hang out with you.

Please let me know if you have any questions.

that fail line looks awfully high... do you know what the means usually are for your class?

 

[lord_jeebus]

that fail line looks awfully high... do you know what the means usually are for your class?

it varies a lot by subject but for a test with a fail line at 65 or 70 the mean is usually in the mid 80's.

Often classes have high means on the early tests (high 80's) and performance on later tests like the final are lower (mid-to-high 70's).

Overall I think the expectations for a Pass are fair.