UCSD w/scholarship vs Top 3 Schools

[toastytoastie]

I know this is such a hackneyed topic--I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry!! Hoping to get some clarity here.

As an OOS applicant with no determined financial need, I received a partial tuition scholarship from UCSD (I will be responsible for only ~$7k of tuition/year). Although living expenses are not covered, my SO has been accepted to a graduate program at UCSD, and would be able to cover most (not all, but definitely a significant chunk) of housing/food/etc. I am interested in pursuing academic medicine, and am strongly considering switching into MD/PhD after second year.

However, I have also been accepted to Harvard, Hopkins, and Stanford. Because I will not receive financial aid, or minimal aid at best, I worry about the burden of debt I will carry at these programs, especially because I don't know if I will ultimately switch to MD/PhD. On the other hand, I feel like these programs' names will be advantageous in the pursuit of an academic position, should I choose to go that route.

Does anybody have any insight?

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[felixthegirl]

I would ask the other 3 schools if they could offer any aid and explain that you would prefer to go to x school but financially are better off going to UCSD. You may be able to get some aid elsewhere. Ultimately though, go with the money. The lack of debt will significantly reduce stress later on.

 

[TheSummit]

UCSD is a very good school and should have no problem in helping you succeed in pursuing a competitive residency. I would save the trouble of a long distance relationship and save money, and go to ucsd.

 

[GoPelicans]

I would work the other schools for aid as much as you can. Ask any student gearing up to apply to residency, a top ~5 school gives you a HUGE leg up compared to even the average top 20. This is important if you are serious about an academic career.

As for your relationship, keep in mind most non-married couples drift apart in medical school. We all like to think that ours will be the one that stands the adversity of medical school, but the stats don't lie.

 

[toastytoastie]

I would work the other schools for aid as much as you can. Ask any student gearing up to apply to residency, a top ~5 school gives you a HUGE leg up compared to even the average top 20. This is important if you are serious about an academic career.

Thanks for your input! Do you think an MD/PhD would attenuate the disparity between lower and top tier schools at all?

 

[darkjedi]

If you plan on going academic, the top 3 will get you much further than UCSD can. Even though HMS and Stanford don't have much merit-based aid, they still offer need-based. Have they released their financial aid packages yet?

Thanks for your input! Do you think an MD/PhD would attenuate the disparity between lower and top tier schools at all?

If anything the tier amplifies the disparities for MD/PhDs

 

[toastytoastie]

If you plan on going academic, the top 3 will get you much further than UCSD can. Even though HMS and Stanford don't have much merit-based aid, they still offer need-based, have they released their financial aid packages yet?

They have not, but based on my parents' assets, I'm not hopeful. I didn't qualify for aid in undergrad for all four years, and their assets have increased since then. Further, they won't be filling out their taxes until June, and so I won't be able to get the FAFSA/Need Access app submitted in time to compare packages.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

If you plan on going academic, the top 3 will get you much further than UCSD can. Even though HMS and Stanford don't have much merit-based aid, they still offer need-based, have they released their financial aid packages yet?


If anything the tier amplifies the disparities for MD/PhDs

Is this really the case? UCSD is a top 15 school.

 

[toastytoastie]

Is this really the case? UCSD is a top 15 school.

Not to mention the Scripps affiliation?

 

[toastytoastie]

As for your relationship, keep in mind most non-married couples drift apart in medical school. We all like to think that ours will be the one that stands the adversity of medical school, but the stats don't lie.

We're that sickeningly disgusting couple that got together in high school. He followed me to undergrad, and we're engaged, hoping to get married this summer. So I'm pretty hopeful about our prospects 🙂

 

[darkjedi]

Is this really the case? UCSD is a top 15 school.

Not to mention the Scripps affiliation?

Don't get me wrong, UCSD is a great medical school/institution, it's a different world at places like HMS/Stanford/JHU in specific regard to research. If you were just focused on getting into a good residency, especially one locally in San Diego, then UCSD is probably your best bet. But if you want to open doors for a research career, you will likely have more opportunities at the top 3.

 

[toastytoastie]

Don't get me wrong, UCSD is a great medical school/institution, it's a different world at places like HMS/Stanford/JHU in specific regard to research. If you were just focused on getting into a good residency, especially one locally in San Diego, then UCSD is probably your best bet. But if you want to open doors for a research career, you will likely have more opportunities at the top 3.

Ok, thanks for the reply!

 

[alpinism]

If you plan on going academic, the top 3 will get you much further than UCSD can. Even though HMS and Stanford don't have much merit-based aid, they still offer need-based. Have they released their financial aid packages yet?


If anything the tier amplifies the disparities for MD/PhDs

Agreed.

UCSD is a great school in great location, but its not a top tier med school. This becomes even more important when considering PhD programs.

If you're seriously considering MD/PhD programs and have already been accepted to the above schools, money shouldn't even be an issue. MSTPs will pay for med school regardless. Even if you end up doing straight MD, you should have no trouble paying off loans within a few years of graduating residency.

At this point, the only reasons to go to UCSD would be to stay with your SO or because you need the extra money to maintain a certain lifestyle.

Otherwise have fun at Stanford.

 

[toastytoastie]

Agreed.
If you're seriously considering MD/PhD programs and have already been accepted to the above schools, money shouldn't even be an issue. MSTPs will pay for med school regardless. Even if you end up doing straight MD, you should have no trouble paying off loans within a few years of graduating residency.

So Stanford only starts funding after MS2, so I would probably have to take out ~$150k in loans before securing funding. Which maybe isn't a big of a deal as I'm making out to be in my head, but those loans will accrue interest for the remaining 6 years of the MD/PhD + residency.

 

[deleted648172]

Damn girl, wish I was in your position. (the med school offers).

Money: MD/PhDs pay you a stipend, and pay for your tuition. From a monetary standpoint, at UCSD, you pay $7Kx4 = $28K + another ~$40K for rent and living expenses = $68K. At the top3, your tuition, rent/living expenses for year 1 are about $70K, and assuming you get into the MD/PhD program, then you MAKE $30K per year. So from that standpoint, Top 3 MD/PhD win economically.

Love: Your sweetheart will be waiting for you for your 8 years of doctoral training in Harvard. The average marriage in the US is 7 years. You are in a profession that has been identified as one with higher than average divorce rates. It would be foolish to think that leaving your hubbie for that amount of time would not have a negative effect on your marriage. UCSD wins for matters of the heart.

Long-term Career: I work in research (at Hopkins), and I know dozens of MD-PhDs. Few of them went to top 3, and most of them did their PhD during their residency. To add to that, fellowship gives you another chance to enter into academic medicine. Really, in the beginning of an academic career, you'll want to publish a few or several papers, find an area of research you enjoy, and then write a training grant for it. I think all of that has more to do with your ability, and the mentors you find. You will have 4-10 years to build this career! so I believe that an academic career can be made from any academic institution. Also, doing a PhD before you even do residency?! how will you know that living donor kidney transplant research, or HCV immunology is your "thing" when you haven't even done internship?

oh yeah: congratulations!

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

So Stanford only starts funding after MS2, so I would probably have to take out ~$150k in loans before securing funding. Which maybe isn't a big of a deal as I'm making out to be in my head, but those loans will accrue interest for the remaining 6 years of the MD/PhD + residency.

Have you spoken to MSTP students and/or professors from UCSD?

 

[toastytoastie]

Have you spoken to MSTP students and/or professors from UCSD?

The Dean of MD Admissions is going to call me this week, and I'm currently talking to the MSTP coordinator, but I should definitely reach out to students! Good idea.

 

[toastytoastie]

Damn girl, wish I was in your position. (the med school offers).

Money: MD/PhDs pay you a stipend, and pay for your tuition. From a monetary standpoint, at UCSD, you pay $7Kx4 = $28K + another ~$40K for rent and living expenses = $68K. At the top3, your tuition, rent/living expenses for year 1 are about $70K, and assuming you get into the MD/PhD program, then you MAKE $30K per year. So from that standpoint, Top 3 MD/PhD win economically.

Love: Your sweetheart will be waiting for you for your 8 years of doctoral training in Harvard. The average marriage in the US is 7 years. You are in a profession that has been identified as one with higher than average divorce rates. It would be foolish to think that leaving your hubbie for that amount of time would not have a negative effect on your marriage. UCSD wins for matters of the heart.

Long-term Career: I work in research (at Hopkins), and I know dozens of MD-PhDs. Few of them went to top 3, and most of them did their PhD during their residency. To add to that, fellowship gives you another chance to enter into academic medicine. Really, in the beginning of an academic career, you'll want to publish a few or several papers, find an area of research you enjoy, and then write a training grant for it. I think all of that has more to do with your ability, and the mentors you find. You will have 4-10 years to build this career! so I believe that an academic career can be made from any academic institution. Also, doing a PhD before you even do residency?! how will you know that living donor kidney transplant research, or HCV immunology is your "thing" when you haven't even done internship?

oh yeah: congratulations!

Thanks for this! I'm definitely concerned about prematurely "deciding" what I want to do before I experience it.

 

[TheRhymenocerous]

Congratulations on being in such an impressive predicament! You must be so excited!

Does your SO have any other grad school options?

 

[toastytoastie]

Congratulations on being in such an impressive predicament! You must be so excited!

Does your SO have any other grad school options?

He's got University of Michigan (where I also have an acceptance--waiting to hear back on merit), Columbia (closest would be Harvard/Hopkins/Penn if I get in), and SUNY Stony Brook.

 

[MaybeDr]

First of all congrats on your acceptances. Having gone from a serious relationship in person to a long distance one for a couple of years I do NOT recommend it. I would say screw the scholarship and go to HMS if you two were together for 6 months or something. It seems you are in a relatively seriously relationship. Hell it sounds like in the end you will be saving more than 7k in tuition if you stay. Especially if you live together.

Also let's be real here. La Jolla is absolutely beautiful.

I personally would choose UCSD. But also make sure you will not resent your significant other for making that decision.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

The Dean of MD Admissions is going to call me this week, and I'm currently talking to the MSTP coordinator, but I should definitely reach out to students! Good idea.

It'd be good to know where previous MSTP students from UCSD have ended up. That can definitely give you some insight. Also, talk to students (MD and MD/PhD) who have similar research interests/goals as you. Perhaps UCSD is very reputable in the field(s) you are focused on.

 

[Greenberg702]

If you plan on going academic, the top 3 will get you much further than UCSD can. Even though HMS and Stanford don't have much merit-based aid, they still offer need-based. Have they released their financial aid packages yet?


If anything the tier amplifies the disparities for MD/PhDs

I think she was referring to her PhD reducing the gap between herself and MD only applicants from top 3 schools, which is true. While the disparities may be amplified between an MD/PhD from HMS and an MD/PhD from a lower ranked school, an MD/PhD from a lower ranked school certainly closes the gap between themselves and a pedigreed MD only residency applicant. If you look at neurosurgery matches at tipy top programs its often super pedigreed MDs with a couple of mid-tier MD/PhDs thrown in. Some have gone as far as saying that a PhD with basic science pubs = AOA in the residency match (although I think neither UCSD nor HMS have AOA). I'm sure that if you rock the boards and clinicals, you'll be able to match anywhere in any specialty with an MD/PhD from UCSD.

 

[VitaminVater]

If you're looking to go into academia/MD-PhD, then the Top 3 are your best options.
HOWEVER, if your intended research field is in chemistry/chemical biology/therapeutics, then UCSD is comparable to HMS due to the multiple institutions it's affiliated with and the pharma presence in La Jolla/SD.

 

[Narmerguy]

If you are seriously going to get married to this person and are possibly doing an MD/PhD (i.e. 7-8 years) I would go to UCSD. Not sure what would happen after 7-8 years of long distance but I imagine it can't be good.

 

[North meets South]

It'd be good to know where previous MSTP students from UCSD have ended up. That can definitely give you some insight. Also, talk to students (MD and MD/PhD) who have similar research interests/goals as you. Perhaps UCSD is very reputable in the field(s) you are focused on.

Figured it might be a fun exercise, so I did a quick gander at UCSD vs Stanford (since it's the closest of the 3 to UCSD)

UCSD:

2013
Postdoc - Seattle
Delaying residency for one year
Psychiatry - Columbia
Ophthalmology - USC
Radiation Oncology - UT Southwestern
Neurology - Stanford
Ophthalmology - Rochester
Radiation Oncology - UCSD
Pathology - UCSD
Pediatrics - Pittsburgh

2014
Internal Medicine - UCSD
Radiology - UC Davis
Pediatrics - University of North Carolina
Psychiatry - Yale
Internal Medicine - UCSD
Pathology - Brigham & Women's
Internal Medicine - University of Washington
Pediatrics - Stanford
Pediatrics - University of Washington
Pathology - Penn

Stanford:

2014
Pathology - UCSF
Psychiatry - UCSF
Anesthesia - University of Washington
Postdoc at Stanford
Neurology - UCLA
Dermatology - Mayo

2013
Internal Medicine - Johns Hopkins
Radiation Oncology - Stanford
Med-Peds - Brigham & Women's/Children's
ENT - Vanderbilt
Plastics - Brigham & Women's
Radiology - UCSF
Pediatrics - Children's Hospital Boston
Dermatology - Mass Gen
Internal Medicine - Stanford
Psychiatry - Columbia
Pathology - Stanford
Radiology - Penn
Dermatology - Stanford

I agree with Narmerguy though, 8 years is a long time

 

[North meets South]

.

 

[Salt Salt]

Best of luck with the decision!

My two cents: stay with your fiancée. Having a significant other by your side (as in, physically present for you) will go a long way to reducing the stress of medical school. Same with the money you'll save.

Ultimately, UCSD is a good enough school that I don't think you'll have any troubles matching into the residency of your choice.

 

[nyy233]

First off: congrats! You're in an amazing situation (this is a tough, but good problem to have!)

Here's my perspective as a 4th year med student having just finished up applying to a competitive specialty. I come from a middle tier medical school (definitely not as solid as UCSD) and didn't feel as though I was at a disadvantage in terms of my competitiveness compared to individuals from the top tier schools. You'll have to work your ass off wherever you go if you want to be successful.

Medical school can be rough, and it's great to have a support network to get you through it. Couple that with a great city, great weather, and minimal debt? C'mon! I can't speak to the research aspects, but I say go for UCSD. In my opinion, you're sacrificing little (if anything) in terms of potential as a residency applicant (assuming you'll continue to work hard, etc) and gain so much in terms of happiness, QOL, etc!

 

[tiedyeddog]

Do UCSD, that's an awesome deal. I was going to switch to MD/PhD after my second year but the first two years of tuition made this too costly.

I would make sure they will allow you to do this, however. Some programs explicitly do not allow internal applicants.

 

[tenniseagle92]

You're in such an awesome position, you should be so proud of yourself! I think you need to do what a lot of people are saying and consider the whole package here.

HMS/Stanford/Hopkins are incredible institutions, but UCSD is also a fantastic school. I am entering this Fall too so I can't speak to the rigor of med school, but I can imagine having your long-term S/O there with you will be an incredible support system. When you factor in the financial disparity here, UCSD has clear advantages. You are obviously a brilliant, highly motivated person, and you will undoubtedly excel wherever you go.

I say go with your gut on this one. As a personal plug, as someone who lives in Boston I can say La Jolla sounds pretty dreamy after this Northeast winter. If I so much as see another snowflake fall, I'm going postal.

 

[JW2020]

I wouldn't listen to random strangers telling you how your relationship is going to end up. Personally, I'd take the money and a chance to be with your SO at an excellent medical school in arguably the most beautiful region of the US. Would you eventually recover from the debt if you went to Stanford/harvard/hopkins? Of course. But why take out extra loans and jeoparize a relationship that matters to you if you don't have to? Again to reiterate, UCSD is an excellent school that many would kill to attend; you will have plenty of opportunities in academic medicine if you end up there.

 

[deleted648172]

I'd also be a little thoughtful about the MD-PhD. It is very difficult to be both clinical and research (and have a family) when you are all growed up. At the end of your training, clinical work will pay you much better, and research funding will be hard to get. If you wanted to do research alone (for flexibility sake, or QoL), you could just do a PhD and have 4 additional years to become an assistant professor! If you want to do clinical work (for high & stable income), you could just do an MD and get residency over with sooner to become an attending! If you do both, you get the worst of both worlds and none of the flexibility, QoL, nor high/stable income.

I feel like MD-PhD is the classic "eat your cake and have it too" situation for smart/capable people.

I feel that an MD-MPH is a better deal than MD-PhD (depending on your research interests? basic or outcomes). b/c it takes only 1 year! so maybe see if that interests you, and if UCSD has it? Heck, you could take a year off from UCSD and do an MPH at Hopkins/Harvard/Stanford. I have (long-distanced) coupled friends who do that.

 

[Microglia]

Check with each school about the prospects of internally applying to the MD/PhD at the end of first year. Some schools allow it, some don't, some place more stringent req's on it than others. Usually it is still a competitive application, but you're given a little more slack since it's a 100% matriculation. Why didn't you apply MSTP from the start? Have a good answer.

I'm at a top 10 MSTP and I have a high opinion of UCSD, if it helps..

 

[BradyC]

UCSD, hands down. It is a top 15 school that will position you to do whatever you want for the rest of your life. You will be essentially debt free and will have your S/O as your support system during the tough times. This is a no brainer.

As an adult non-traditional applicant I can speak from experience on living with/without debt. Trust me. It makes a huge difference once you are paying your bills on a monthly basis. I speak from experience. I think on here people can sometimes be rather flippant when it comes to just going with the debt because it can be paid off with your future physician salary. That is obviously true but you only live once, and the flexibility this scholarship $$$ from UCSD opens up for you and your future family is unbelievable. You are clearly brilliant and motivated. Nothing is going to hold you back from reaching your goals. Take the money, beautiful weather and run all the way home. Best of luck.