UCSF v Duke Med

[qwerty518]

Hi Everyone- I posted not too long ago about making my school list and now I have surprisingly been accepted to my two reach schools!

I am still waiting on financial aid packages from both (I expect to know soon) but I would really like to hear others' opinions on the above medical programs. I feel I can't really go wrong with either, but both have such unique pros.

Duke:
Became my top interest when applying
Much closer to my family and support system.
Unique curriculum that allows for a competitive residency application
Research is important to me as I will most likely want to specialize in a competitive specialty (derm, plastics,surgery)
Area is more familiar and its rural(ish) location is more within my comfort zone as I have lived in NH my whole life and never in a very urban area like SF (I can be pretty skittish)
I vibed with students and faculty the best during my interview day- they seemed really happy to be there it seems the school really values balance and student feedback.
COL much better
Weather

UCSF
Was my dream school all throughout undergrad (not sure if I just gave up on that dream and that's why it wasn't 1 during my cycle)
Location- super cool and new area but soooo expensive
priority of social justice and public health
More diverse patient populations
advertised their generosity in financial aid more than other schools
highly ranked in research AND clinical care - the name carries an impressive reputation, especially within the medical community and looks like it could open more doors for me as I do have an interest in women's health


My reservations w UCSF
High state bias- what will it mean coming from NH where my family and friends are the farthest away they could be? Will I be an outsider in the community already there for so many students? I come from my rural state university and a lower-middle class family- will I fit with the students here?
Expense
Location- climate and urban setting is something that could overwhelm me
Got along great with faculty but other applicants and students didn't vibe with me as well- elitist energy


I really am interested to hear everyone's thoughts and advice in general- not so much which one I sound more interested in because I am honestly very conflicted. Thanks so much in advance!!



Reservations of Duke
Is duke more in my comfort zone, and thats why I am leaning towards it - I understand that this something I need to personally reflect on but still...... help
is UCSF the better opportunity for my professional success? Is it the better program?
I have heard in the past there can be a toxic academic environment- this was from a family friend who heard this YEARS ago though.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[throwaway01564]

UCSF, T3 school

 

[MadRadLad]

UCSF is the bigger name but everything else points towards Duke. The culture/atmosphere at UCSF a little stuffy and elitist in several residency programs/departments as well. In some residencies/fellowships they have been known to be malignant or at least extremely workhorse-y, but that can be true with many systems. I know less about Duke in that regard but my friends there seemed fairly.

Duke is a great school and will definitely get you where you want to go, it's not like you're picking between a top 5 and a top 50. If you are set on going to Cali long term, UCSF is the better choice. Don't underestimate having a closer support system, Duke isn't close to NH but it's way closer than SF is. And as you said, SF cost of living is insane.

Good luck and you have two great choices.

 

[allseasons]

UCSF, T3 school

I swear we’re just making up Ts at this point hahaha

 

[allseasons]

Isn’t Duke a T10? Or at least close to it. They’re ranked #3 on us news this year and while I know that doesn’t inherently mean they’re viewed that highly in the medical community there usually some correlation (nyu ranked #2 on us news last year, but it’s standing within the med community has improved to the point where it’s borderline a T10 now)

Duke won’t close any doors for you anywhere. Unless you’re interested in residency in California (esp ucsf ucla or stanford) I doubly going to duke would hinder you in any way in the future.

If you want to do derm or plastics and more involved in private practice/cosmetics duke may even be the better option for marketing purposes as it’s sports standing has given it nationwide recognition, while very few outside of the west coast would have heard of ucsf.

My dream school was always penn, but getting into ucla has helped me realize the importance of sports branding. Penn isn’t really known outside of the northeast (not to a very significant degree anyway) but pretty much everyone everywhere has heard of ucla and knows it as a good school.

 

[JohnJacobJingleheimer]

Isn’t Duke a T10? Or at least close to it. They’re ranked #3 on us news this year and while I know that doesn’t inherently mean they’re viewed that highly in the medical community there usually some correlation (nyu ranked #2 on us news last year, but it’s standing within the med community has improved to the point where it’s borderline a T10 now)

Duke won’t close any doors for you anywhere. Unless you’re interested in residency in California (esp ucsf ucla or stanford) I doubly going to duke would hinder you in any way in the future.

If you want to do derm or plastics and more involved in private practice/cosmetics duke may even be the better option for marketing purposes as it’s sports standing has given it nationwide recognition, while very few outside of the west coast would have heard of ucsf.

My dream school was always penn, but getting into ucla has helped me realize the importance of sports branding. Penn isn’t really known outside of the northeast (not to a very significant degree anyway) but pretty much everyone everywhere has heard of ucla and knows it as a good school.

Dude, these people splitting hairs saying UCSF is ranked better or has the better reputation are cracking me up. Both are top schools whose names carry all the prestige in medicine one can benefit from. Nothing between these schools' names and reputations alone will open a door that the other cannot. I fully believe that pedigree matters, but are we kidding here? They're both top ten schools, now **** off with your "T3", as if that's actually a thing. Both are such good programs that I would take ranking and reputation out of the equation and compare from there. Personally, I'd go wherever is cheaper. Congrats on the awesome choices.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

Dude, these people splitting hairs saying UCSF is ranked better or has the better reputation are cracking me up. Both are top schools whose names carry all the prestige in medicine one can benefit from. Nothing between these schools' names and reputations alone will open a door that the other cannot. I fully believe that pedigree matters, but are we kidding here? They're both top ten schools, now **** off with your "T3", as if that's actually a thing. Both are such good programs that I would take ranking and reputation out of the equation and compare from there. Personally, I'd go wherever is cheaper. Congrats on the awesome choices.

True in the sense that both schools will have all the doors open. However, UCSF has been considered the elite of the elite schools along with Harvard and Hopkins for a very long time.

 

[JohnJacobJingleheimer]

True in the sense that both schools will have all the doors open. However, UCSF has been considered the elite of the elite schools along with Harvard and Hopkins for a very long time.

Right, I just think the difference only matters insofar as bragging rights. Not something that I, personally, would base my decision on. I think both names will sit well with PD's and score you the maximum number of prestige points you can earn. So yes, people in medicine might know you go to the school that CURRENTLY holds the #1 spot on the PD rankings list; however, I'd be willing to bet my current acceptances (far more valuable than money lol) that this will change in the next 4 years. Duke having the more nationally recognized name in terms of lay prestige, will not; therefore, even the bragging rights of attending UCSF start to pale.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

Right, I just think the difference only matters insofar as bragging rights. Not something that I, personally, would base my decision on. I think both names will sit well with PD's and score you the maximum number of prestige points you can earn. So yes, people in medicine might know you go to the school that CURRENTLY holds the #1 spot on the PD rankings list; however, I'd be willing to bet my current acceptances (far more valuable than money lol) that this will change in the next 4 years. Duke having the more nationally recognized name in terms of lay prestige, will not; therefore, even the bragging rights of attending UCSF start to pale.

Once you finish med school, no one brags about it anymore lol.

 

[JohnJacobJingleheimer]

Once you finish med school, no one brags about it anymore lol.

Yeah, I'd imagine people stop giving af even before then. We're all just caught up in the excitement about our A's and which schools were going to that it is, currently, the center of our universe. The excitement will fade and everyone will stop caring lol. I just think a top 10 is a top 10 and they all kinda max out in terms of how much of a leg up they can give you for residency match. That's why I got a laugh out of someone referring to UCSF as a T3 and using that as justification to choose UCSF. I just think the difference between a "T3" and T10 is largely intangible.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

Yeah, I'd imagine people stop giving af even before then. We're all just caught up in the excitement about our A's and which schools were going to that it is, currently, the center of our universe. The excitement will fade and everyone will stop caring lol. I just think a top 10 is a top 10 and they all kinda max out in terms of how much of a leg up they can give you for residency match. That's why I got a laugh out of someone referring to UCSF as a T3 and using that as justification to choose UCSF. I just think the difference between a "T3" and T10 is largely intangible.

Basically once you click that commit button, this rush of prestige and superiority starts to go away slowly. However, OP did mention it’s their dream school. So I advise that OP consider UCSF a bit more now.

 

[qwerty518]

Thank you both so much! I really appreciate both sides- I am really hoping financial aid may make this an easier decision

 

[sousa7]

UCSF easily. The community is SF is very welcoming and diverse imo

 

[BritainKittenMittens]

If you don't want to match to CA, it doesn't matter between the 2. If UCSF has more prestige, it's only slightly. Duke has a big name in medicine and a much bigger name outside. I wouldn't factor in prestige between these two.

 

[allseasons]

If you don't want to match to CA, it doesn't matter between the 2. If UCSF has more prestige, it's only slightly. Duke has a big name in medicine and a much bigger name outside. I wouldn't factor in prestige between these two.

Yea, I have family abroad, literally on the opposite side of the world, that recognized UCLA. They had no idea what Penn was and no one around me or anywhere else I know of has ever even heard of WashU. The whole "prestige/recognition" thing is a lot bigger than just US News.

 

[throwaway01564]

Yea, I have family abroad, literally on the opposite side of the world, that recognized UCLA. They had no idea what Penn was and no one around me or anywhere else I know of has ever even heard of WashU. The whole "prestige/recognition" thing is a lot bigger than just US News.

I relent that the difference between UCSF/Duke is probably small, but name recognition within family doesn't mean anything lmao. In medicine, WashU is 100% a bigger name than UCLA and that's not based on US News. Penn is bigger than both.

 

[MadRadLad]

If "prestige" is your thing, UCSF is maybe slightly more prestigious in medicine but Duke is going to be more knowledgeable in every other community like business/law/engineering and to the layperson due to bball.

Realistically this is not going to make a big difference other than the west coast vs southeast regional biases.

 

[allseasons]

I relent that the difference between UCSF/Duke is probably small, but name recognition within family doesn't mean anything lmao. In medicine, WashU is 100% a bigger name than UCLA and that's not based on US News. Penn is bigger than both.

oh yea, I'm not debating that at all. I also wasn't saying you should use lay recognition to choose med school.
I just personally enjoy lay recognition, despite the rankings. You are absolutely right about standing in the medical field, but my point was just that, to me personally, I don't care solely about standing in the medical field.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

Yea, I have family abroad, literally on the opposite side of the world, that recognized UCLA. They had no idea what Penn was and no one around me or anywhere else I know of has ever even heard of WashU. The whole "prestige/recognition" thing is a lot bigger than just US News.

Based on that, one should go to Dartmouth over Pitt…

 

[i-doctor]

I’d go to where it’s cheaper and you come out at the end with less debt. You’ll thank me in 8-10 years. I feel for you though. How can anyone turn down UCSF?
(My situation thankfully didn’t reach a dilemma. I got accepted at Univ of Mich and decided that was it. Perfect, In-state tuition. Then I got a II at HMS. Holy crap. I of course went through with it. Didn’t get accepted. Whew.)
I’m an attending now.

 

[allseasons]

Based on that, one should go to Dartmouth over Pitt…

That was actually the example I typed out right before I saw your comment of what one shouldn't do haha.
But no, I wasn't suggesting that one should actually base their decisions solely on lay prestige. It's just a nice added factor if you care about it. I'm sure for Dartmouth vs OSU or Boston, it would be a difficult decision for many (at equal cost anyway).

 

[BritainKittenMittens]

I relent that the difference between UCSF/Duke is probably small, but name recognition within family doesn't mean anything lmao. In medicine, WashU is 100% a bigger name than UCLA and that's not based on US News. Penn is bigger than both.

Lay prestige does matter if you want to use your medical degree outside of practicing medicine. If you want to go into public policy, business/consulting/pharma, people are going to be top private schools. Now I'm not saying you should factor in lay prestige more than prestige in medicine, but I'm saying that the UCSF's minor bump is inconsequential here when compared to Duke. Unless you want a slightly better shot at UCSF/CA residencies (and some Harvard-affiliated ones which seems incestuous with UCSF), I'd start factoring in other things.

Please note that I was arguing your exact points in another post of UCSF vs UW. But that applies a lot less with Duke.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

Lay prestige does matter if you want to use your medical degree outside of practicing medicine. If you want to go into public policy, business/consulting/pharma, people are going to be top private schools. Now I'm not saying you should factor in lay prestige more than prestige in medicine, but I'm saying that the UCSF's minor bump is inconsequential here when compared to Duke. Unless you want a slightly better shot at UCSF/CA residencies (and some Harvard-affiliated ones which seems incestuous with UCSF), I'd start factoring in other things.

Please note that I was arguing your exact points in another post of UCSF vs UW. But that applies a lot less with Duke.

I don’t think it’s a bump or whatnot, as I-doctor put it how can anyone turn down UCSF. In medicine, UCSF has this amazing allure. Don’t ask me why lol.

 

[Sea Otter]

As an attending, I have no idea where any of my colleagues graduated from medical school or where they completed residency. Just throwing that out there. Both are awesome choices and you can do any specialty from either. If it were me I’d go with the cheaper option.

 

[deleted1065184]

1) Look at the curricula and see which you like more. For example, when I was in the process I loved the vibes at Yale but knew that all the freedom and flexibility would be bad for me lol. 2) Follow the money once the aid comes in. 3) Duke is closer, but not close enough that I think it should be a major factor (imo). It'll be a plane ride regardless.

It's blowing my mind that people are trying to find a way to split them up wrt prestige lol. Also, the way you felt you did or didn't vibe with students during the interview is not very helpful because many of them won't be your classmates and in general it's just not indicative of what your experience will be.

What I really wanna emphasize, which I hope will alleviate stress, is that you cannot make a wrong decision here. You're in an awesome position. When you start in the fall, there will probably be times when you're in the trenches and you're wondering if you should've gone elsewhere. That's normal, it's just stress lol. But either decision you make is the right decision.

 

[obiwan]

Yeah, I'd imagine people stop giving af even before then. We're all just caught up in the excitement about our A's and which schools were going to that it is, currently, the center of our universe. The excitement will fade and everyone will stop caring lol. I just think a top 10 is a top 10 and they all kinda max out in terms of how much of a leg up they can give you for residency match. That's why I got a laugh out of someone referring to UCSF as a T3 and using that as justification to choose UCSF. I just think the difference between a "T3" and T10 is largely intangible.

Agreed. The obsession of where medical schools and residencies rank relative to each other exists only in these forums of SDN and not in the clinical world. There is no difference between UCSF and Duke. They are literally tip of the spear schools. You will be able to match into HSS for orthopedic surgery or Mass Eye and Ear for ENT or whatever specialty you desire coming from either school

This decision should really come down to cost of tuition and would the OP rather live in the Bay Area or RDU bearing in mind the 125% increase in COL

 

[MadRadLad]

I don’t think it’s a bump or whatnot, as I-doctor put it how can anyone turn down UCSF. In medicine, UCSF has this amazing allure. Don’t ask me why lol.

It's easy to turn down UCSF if you have other big name options with better culture, pay, Bay Area COL, etc. Decisions aren't made in a vacuum. UCSF is a great place but as with any of the top schools it's got elite programs in several areas and some areas not as much. That's not that different for Harvard, Hopkins, Stanford, etc. If you are picking between them all your decision should 99% be dictated by location.

 

[i-doctor]

In regards to prestige, it’s all a mirage anyway. In the future when you’re out in private practice, the general public outside of California doesn’t know much about UCSF….
Here in the Midwest, if I told a patient I trained at UCSF, they’d probably say oh ok, how did you like living in S.F.? If I told them I went to Duke Med School, they’d probably say wow, you must be smart.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

In regards to prestige, it’s all a mirage anyway. In the future when you’re out in private practice, the general public outside of California doesn’t know much about UCSF….
Here in the Midwest, if I told a patient I trained at UCSF, they’d probably say oh ok, how did you like living in S.F.? If I told them I went to Duke Med School, they’d probably say wow, you must be smart.

Prestige really never applies to patients, because all they want is to get better. In law, clients don’t care if their lawyer went to a t14 law school. Prestige really only matters to those who will decide whether to hire you or promote you..

 

[deleted1065184]

Prestige really never applies to patients, because all they want is to get better. In law, clients don’t care if their lawyer went to a t14 law school. Prestige really only matters to those who will decide whether to hire you or promote you..

And nobody is going to hire somebody who went to UCSF over somebody who went to Duke, or even have preference for it...unless maybe if the employer is in California. But same wrt an employer in North Carolina having a bit of a bias for Duke. And even then, they'll care about residency so much more.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

And nobody is going to hire somebody who went to UCSF over somebody who went to Duke, or even have preference for it...unless maybe if the employer is in California. But same wrt an employer in North Carolina having a bit of a bias for Duke. And even then, they'll care about residency so much more.

Who knows… it’s all very subjective anyway.

 

[obiwan]

Prestige really never applies to patients, because all they want is to get better. In law, clients don’t care if their lawyer went to a t14 law school. Prestige really only matters to those who will decide whether to hire you or promote you..

In academia, the prestige of your medical school matters diddly squat in your being able to be promoted from associate professor to assistant professor and so on. In private practice, it matters even less. Your residency has an exponentially greater impact on your career trajectory. Thats why when it comes to USCF and Duke, its fruitless exercise to debate the prestige of said school since they are already at the top of the pack