UCSF v Wash U v Vanderbilt v Michigan

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mass-premed66

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Edit: Thank you so much for all your input. It’s really helped guide my thought process. Especially now with step 1 being pass/fail, I’m going to value prestige a bit more. I’m waiting to hear from 5 more schools and will make a decision then.

Hey guys!

I'm very grateful to have these choices at this point in the cycle and although I'm still waiting on a few more T10/20 decisions I would like to start giving up spots and narrowing down my choices. It's easy for me to get lost in the weeds when making big decisions so all input is welcome!!

I'm hoping to enter into a competitive speciality and possibly academic medicine although my exact path is still fuzzy. Although I'm from CA, I've been on the east coast for several years and would be happy to end up living there in the end. I’d like to be close to my support systems although none of these options offer that outright so its less of a concern right now.

UCSF
Pros:
  1. Prestige/reputation (which does matter to me)
  2. Opens doors for academic positions
  3. Loved the commitment to social justice and an emphasis on health disparities
  4. Clinical Education is #1 by far
Cons:
  1. Support system isn’t close by, from SoCal whereas a lot of other students could easily go home for the weekend.
  2. Older facilities
  3. Likely to be one of the more expensive options
  4. I really dislike SF
  5. Daunting move back west
Wash U
Pros:
  1. Potential for scholarship (haven’t heard yet)
  2. Connected really well with students on interview day, liked the vibe a lot
  3. Cheap COL means not living in a shoebox
  4. Small class size
  5. Also great for academia
Cons:
  1. New curriculum, probable growing pains
  2. City feels segregated
  3. St. Louis is further than the rest from any support system
Vanderbilt
Pros:
  1. Full tuition scholarship
  2. Short preclinical
  3. Loved Nashville
  4. Vibed decently well with the school
Cons:
  1. Lower ranked
  2. Also preclinical might be too short?
  3. Not diverse
  4. Not a super reputed hospital system
  5. Matches to NE residency?
Michigan
Pros:
  1. Also potential for scholarship although haven’t heard yet
  2. Loved interview day and connected equally well with students as at WashU (they took me out after my interview and let me stay an extra night)
  3. Short pre-clinical
  4. Pretty much can take classes at home via videos and flexible online quizzes (I learn best like this)
Cons:
  1. Maybe 1 yr preclinical too short?
  2. I don’t know if the “Big 10” campus feel is for me
  3. Not as diverse of a patient population
  4. Large class size

Overall, I’m finding it difficult because I vibed best at Wash U and Michigan but care about the prestige of SF. Its also hard to turn down graduating with no debt although financial aid isn’t settled yet at all places. Also I'm worried about things I haven't even thought to think of, am I missing some consideration?
Thanks for your help!
 
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All these schools are great so I would go to one of the places that gives you a scholarship. I’d also argue that the shorter the preclinical education the better. It just frees up more time to do electives, research, take time off to study for boards, etc. That extra time is extremely useful if you end up applying for a competitive specialty or want to explore multiple specialties.


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How important is money for you? Would you take a full scholarship to wash u, vandy, or Michigan over 250k loans are UCSF?

In these cases I don’t think prestige is a huge issue, especially if the money is so different across schools.


I made a similar decision last year with UCSF PM me if you want
 
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Currently at UCSF.
It’s amazing here. We have p np for 3rd year clinical, which means less stress. We can easily match back to UCSF for residency. Both clinical and basic science research = world class. Lots of night life in the city, unlimited bars, clubbing, art, and food! What’s the estimated cost for each? Honestly, if you know you will regret not choosing Ucsf, go to UCSF. Prestige really matters in academic medicine.
 
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jessicajonesharvard said:
We have p np for 3rd year clinical,
Click to expand...

Just a heads up that Vandy also does this. Something I would definitely consider adding to your pros list for both schools.

I think the Vandy full scholarship is really hard to turn down. Full disclosure, I really fell in love with Vandy on interview day, but I think they really have the perfect curriculum, a strong/close-knit culture, and good location.

For me, the one school on your list that I would feel tempted to pick over it for prestige reasons is UCSF (this might not be totally logical. It is based on the sentiment I've seen on here that T3 or T5 are somehow uniquely strong in reputation even above the rest of the T20.). That being said, I get the sense that you didn't feel as much of a fit there (your pros are practical/logical things, whereas your cons are all more direct quality of life/happiness factors). If all else is equal, then sure, why not go for the more prestigious option? But it seems like you have more serious reservations about UCSF--given that, plus the scholarship, I'd go with Vandy. I don't think you'll have any problem matching in the NE, especially since you live there now and can point that as evidence of your desire to return.

Edit: I also interviewed at WashU and enjoyed my visit. I'm sure I'd be happy there, but I wasn't impressed by any particularly unique features of their program. I share your concerns about being the first class with a new curriculum. I did not interview at UMich.
 
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The difference in prestige isn’t enough to matter as you can still match at top places coming from any of these places. The only caveat I’ll add is if you want to be at UCSF, Brigham, or MGH for residency then going to UCSF will likely be more helpful (Harvard institutions and UCSF really have quite a bit of back and forth). That said, I think picking a medical school based on wanting to match at one of three institutions is probably not the best criteria - it’s four years of your life, so set yourself up for success but don’t blow it being blinded by the future.

I’d therefore balance the most affordable option and the one you liked best, which would seem to be Vandy.

Good luck with the decision!
 
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I went to a T-10, and I'm a resident at another T-10 that heavily recruits from other T-20s. This **** is all inbred. All of the T-20s, for the most part, are relatively interchangeable once you've gotten in.

1yr v 2yr preclinical doesn't matter - you can handle the work, you're a fxcking rockstar that's why they accepted you.

"connecting with the student body" only kinda matters - you will see much of the same tropes of people at every med school, especially among this tier of school. You will find your clique of friends - almost everyone does.


The things you should ultimately care about when you pick a school are:

1) Location - are they close to people you care about? can you still do the hobbies you care about? Is it easy to date and meet people (esp if you are LGBT or a POC)?

2) Clinical year - these are the only grades besides the USMLE that matter at all. try to go someplace pass fail

3) Debt - academic medicine pays peanuts. Go someplace that will minimize your debt load and ideally should try for a low COL area so you don't end up borrowing a **** ton just to keep a roof over your head.



Everything else is bull****. Your opportunities for matching are not appreciably different from any of the schools mentioned, and your potential for growth and achievement is literally limitless. Congratulations on your hard work.
 
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Lexdiamondz said:
I went to a T-10, and I'm a resident at another T-10 that heavily recruits from other T-20s. This **** is all inbred. All of the T-20s, for the most part, are relatively interchangeable once you've gotten in.

1yr v 2yr preclinical doesn't matter - you can handle the work, you're a fxcking rockstar that's why they accepted you.

"connecting with the student body" only kinda matters - you will see much of the same tropes of people at every med school, especially among this tier of school. You will find your clique of friends - almost everyone does.


The things you should ultimately care about when you pick a school are:

1) Location - are they close to people you care about? can you still do the hobbies you care about? Is it easy to date and meet people (esp if you are LGBT or a POC)?

2) Clinical year - these are the only grades besides the USMLE that matter at all. try to go someplace pass fail

3) Debt - academic medicine pays peanuts. Go someplace that will minimize your debt load and ideally should try for a low COL area so you don't end up borrowing a **** ton just to keep a roof over your head.



Everything else is bull****. Your opportunities for matching are not appreciably different from any of the schools mentioned, and your potential for growth and achievement is literally limitless. Congratulations on your hard work.
Click to expand...


Can you expand on this? How significant is T3 vs. T5 vs T10 vs T20 for matching? People seem to think there is a difference between T3 and T20 for example
 
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Go with the scholarship to Vandy, but work U Mich to match... the stress of debt is hard to understand in the abstract, but can't be overemphasized. That 250k will end up being 350-400k with interest. Also haven't seen it mentioned here, but I'd be as impressed (if I were a residency director) by someone getting a full ride to Vandy as with someone paying full freight to UCSF. Hopefully there is an artful way of working that fact in your CV.
 
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Just based on what you put on your list, if WashU also offers a full scholarship, it sounds like you would go there because of prestige, the good vibe with the other students, and the COL. You can match anywhere coming out of WashU. If however you don't get a scholarship at WashU, I think Vandy would be the better choice.

Also, just curious, what makes UCSF the #1 clinical education?
 
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Hard to make the case that the .4 means much when you look at the match lists between the two. And if you compare all four schools’ lists, hard not to conclude that Vand/WashU win. Though people pick and choose what is/is not a worthy metric to compare schools by so at the end of the day OP you gotta go with your gut like everyone else is doing here—where would you regret not choosing?
 
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blax34 said:
Hard to make the case that the .4 means much when you look at the match lists between the two. And if you compare all four schools’ lists, hard not to conclude that Vand/WashU win. Though people pick and choose what is/is not a worthy metric to compare schools by so at the end of the day OP you gotta go with your gut like everyone else is doing here—where would you regret not choosing?
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I agree that the only way to decide is based on gut feelings and I asked myself precisely this question which school would I regret not choosing. However, in terms of the metrics, 0.4 difference on a scale of 5 is not nothing. Some people might very well regret not picking a school that has 4.2 over 3.8 or 3.8 over 3.4. Again it’s whether you really care about that ranking not whether the ranking really provides any meaning.
 
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Don’t overthink this. All those schools are great and will offer you every opportunity. Go with whoever offers the best deal financially. If they’re very close then go with wherever you want to live/felt best to you. Personally I’d rather be poor in Nashville or St Louis then poor in SF or NYC even though I love SF.
 
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I went to a top med school in a big city and into a very competitive specialty. Met people from all 4 of those schools on the interview trail who went on to match at great programs, and all these schools themselves have great residency programs (definitely in my field, surely in almost all others). Point is you can't go wrong with any of them, so go to the place you like the most. I'd be miserable at UCSF and didn't even apply there for med school or residency. I loved my med school but hated every second of living in a big city. I don't think it's worth the cost or lifestyle sacrifice to go to a school in a place you wouldn't be happy in when you have other options.

If you haven't had any clinical training, your perception of who has the best clinical training is meaningless. All of those schools will have great clinical training. If you think Vanderbilt medical center is not super reputed, you have no clue (I don't mean this disparagingly, as you haven't had any experience).
 
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Lexdiamondz said:
Everything else is bull****. Your opportunities for matching are not appreciably different from any of the schools mentioned, and your potential for growth and achievement is literally limitless. Congratulations on your hard work.
Click to expand...

This poster's points sum it up, imo. Unless one of the others offers you a full ride in a location you like as much or more, then go with Vandy. Once you're among the top, it's easier for you to jump around in between different top places. Might as well do it for free since in academic medicine, you're going to take a paycut. Easier to make those decisions when you have less debt weighing you down.

Take the 300k+, after interest, you're not spending and buy yourself something nice. Congratulations!
 
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