UCSF vs. Harvard (REACH Scholarship)

[boeufetbeurre]

Hey all, I've had the unbelievable fortune to be accepted to a few medical schools this cycle, but UCSF and HMS are without a doubt my top choices, and I genuinely cannot make the decision myself. So here goes the breakdown.

UCSF
Pros

• I love the weather, SF Culture is probably more of a fit (although I've only been to Boston for the interview and liked it)
• My long term SO (4.5 years) loves it there much more than I do, and I love her.
• Her family is nearby, and they have been an important support system for us both
• I like UCSF's mission, and coming from a very poor background in the deep south lets me connect consistently with the roots of what pushed me to medicine in the first place.
• Clinical Education is #1 by far
• Full P/F completely unranked all 4 years
• When there is down time, there is a greater diversity of activities to fill my time and indulge in hobbies.

Cons

• Extremely Expensive, I have essentially no money and my family has no wealth, so everything that will be paid, will come from financial aid and loans. (I haven't seen UCSF's aid yet, but I know it wont beat HMS)
• I know I will want to do residency at UCSF/Stanford, but I want the experience of living on the east coast for a while, and to understand that regional culture.
• While their research is amazing, the only place that is better is HMS, and HMS has some specific labs that deeply interest me that UCSF does not.
• I haven't heard much positive about new bridges curriculum

Harvard
Pros

• I will receive full financial aid plus a REACH scholarship, which should cover most things from full tuition to a portion of COL, and Boston has a lower COL than SF, so I could live better, for less.
• The prestige is cool, and while its not a really motivating factor, me going to Harvard means a whole lot more to the people in my neighborhood as well as my sister and family than UCSF.
• They have longer dedicated Step study time, which is DEFINITELY important, and likely a major factor in how their Step average is crazy high when compared to UCSF
• More research opportunities in areas that I am specifically interested in, although I will probably take on work in a new field as well.
• I want to be an academic for the rest of my life, and I have heard that going to HMS will do you quite a lot of favors if academia is your goal in the long run.
• A place that is totally new and different excites me (could be a con idk)
• I liked the pathways curriculum quite a bit.

Cons

• I've never dealt with real cold, so Boston's winter weather is not exactly exciting to me
• My SO has a negative opinion of Boston, and I can't imagine going through this journey without her, although she may join me if I decide on HMS.
• My SO wants to work in product dev, and I'm not sure if there are nearly as many opportunities there for her as there are in the Bay area.

Summary: Just skim the bullet points. I guess the main problems are the unknown unknowns that I should be considering. Is the difference between UCSF and HMS even a big deal at all? Am I ascribing too much value to HMS's power in the academic world? Its extremely tough.

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[meronebib]

I would go where the money is - so, Harvard. Winters in Boston aren't that bad compared to Chicago and others. It will be a fun, once in a lifetime experience for you and your SO to learn a new area. And Harvard won't prevent you from returning to Stanford/UCLA in the future. Congratulations!

 

[desert_tortoise]

My long term SO (4.5 years) loves it there much more than I do, and I love her.

This is so cute, I love it and the fact that you are thinking of each other in this decision (I know it's a tough one!)

 

[boeufetbeurre]

This is so cute, I love it and the fact that you are thinking of each other in this decision (I know it's a tough one!)

Thank you, and honestly it is such a tough one because of how much she loves the bay area (I do too but I'm willing to forgo for a few years at harvard). Plus I am terrible at bringing this up, because we both have sacrificed insane amounts to be together considering we were long distance for the majority of our time together. My real issue is just trying to figure out if Harvard is truly worth her sacrifice for me. When they're giving me so much money and a chance to support us both while she searches for a job, it is very hard to put that down.

 

[desert_tortoise]

Thank you, and honestly it is such a tough one because of how much she loves the bay area (I do too but I'm willing to forgo for a few years at harvard). Plus I am terrible at bringing this up, because we both have sacrificed insane amounts to be together considering we were long distance for the majority of our time together. My real issue is just trying to figure out if Harvard is truly worth her sacrifice for me. When they're giving me so much money and a chance to support us both while she searches for a job, it is very hard to put that down.

I really identify with your dilemma as I am in a VERY similar situation with my SO (my own Help Me Decide post will likely be up in the next little while so we can commiserate together, my friend). So first, please know you are not alone! Unfortunately, I am not as familiar with UCSF as I am with Harvard so I really can't give a good analysis of the comparison between the two and I also don't think it's my place as Internet Stranger to tell you what I think is best. I think my first piece of advice would be to maybe wait and see what UCSF's financial aid situation is. I am unfamiliar with their policies/history of financial aid so perhaps another person can speak more closely on this topic, but there could be a chance they could increase their offer if you mention the scholarship you're getting from Harvard? Second, it might really help to talk closely with your SO about each option. You could kind of run a few scenarios together and see what she thinks of each outcome (staying in Bay Area vs long-distance vs moving out to Boston at some point). I know it is VERY tough to bring up, but I think if you have 4.5 years together, this sort of conversation will allow you to grow as a couple and look to the future together. In terms of UCSF vs Harvard, all I know is that UCSF currently has the highest ranking on the Residency Director ranking system (source: Reddit thread where someone copied/pasted from a more official source) so I do not think you would limit yourself in any way at either institution 🙂 Good luck, my friend, I am sending de-stressing vibes your way!

 

[dodolol21]

My long term SO (4.5 years) loves it there much more than I do, and I love her.

This is huge. Go with the SO. She's probably going to serve as a huge source of support and motivation for you throughout medical school. Personally, I'd be miserable away from mine for that many years. Hopefully, the financial aid at UCSF works out to where it's not too much more expensive, and your SO could also split your rent/COL.

 

[boeufetbeurre]

I really identify with your dilemma as I am in a VERY similar situation with my SO (my own Help Me Decide post will likely be up in the next little while so we can commiserate together, my friend). So first, please know you are not alone! Unfortunately, I am not as familiar with UCSF as I am with Harvard so I really can't give a good analysis of the comparison between the two and I also don't think it's my place as Internet Stranger to tell you what I think is best. I think my first piece of advice would be to maybe wait and see what UCSF's financial aid situation is. I am unfamiliar with their policies/history of financial aid so perhaps another person can speak more closely on this topic, but there could be a chance they could increase their offer if you mention the scholarship you're getting from Harvard? In terms of UCSF vs Harvard, all I know is that UCSF currently has the highest ranking on the Residency Director ranking system (source: Reddit thread where someone copied/pasted from a more official source) so I do not think you would limit yourself in any way at either institution 🙂 Good luck, my friend, I am sending de-stressing vibes your way!

Thank you! I will definitely be waiting to see what UCSF's financial aid looks like to make any major decision. If i were to attend HMS I'd have to take a stats course (prob some online course over the summer so no big deal there). I kind of rushed and made the mistake of saying "IM GOING TO HARVARD" because I was super excited and the selfishness glossed over the reality of my decision, but luckily I didn't make any official decision. Saying that did NOT go over well as you can imagine. I do see that UCSF has a better RD score, and more than half the class matches in California and about half at UCSF alone, which is in line with my ultimate goal of being in california with her. I suppose it will come down to financial aid, although I'd be hard pressed to believe that UCSF can match HMS. Also some uncomfortable conversations need to be had.

 

[camnewton1]

I also agree that you should wait to hear from financial aid from UCSF. While they are known to be expensive, they are also very generous with need based aid from what I've heard. Considering the financial background you describe, I would venture to guess your COA at UCSF will not be more than ~100k in loans. But wait for it before making a decision!

 

[boeufetbeurre]

I also agree that you should wait to hear from financial aid from UCSF. While they are known to be expensive, they are also very generous with need based aid from what I've heard. Considering the financial background you describe, I would venture to guess your COA at UCSF will not be more than ~100k in loans. But wait for it before making a decision!

Yeah I am 100% waiting for the finaid to go through, I personally lean to HMS, but may capitulate to my SO if UCSF isnt too expensive.

 

[ihaveagf]

I love UCSF (will be attending there in the fall) but seriously... Harvard full ride man..... it's a FULL RIDE! 🙂 On the other hand, "Full P/F completely unranked all 4 years", is that true for the 4th year too? Because that's amazing... How would that affect our match list?

 

[boeufetbeurre]

I love UCSF (will be attending there in the fall) but seriously... Harvard full ride man..... it's a FULL RIDE! 🙂 On the other hand, "Full P/F completely unranked all 4 years", is that true for the 4th year too? Because that's amazing... How would that affect our match list?

It is full PF even for clinical afaik for our year, so no AOA or anything anymore. I’m unsure about things like subinternships but it’s probably not a big deal. At HMS the grading is full P/F for M1-M2, then you get grades that are essentially meaningless as they only send grades for your chosen specialty in the Match.

 

[carrots28]

You have to ask yourself if your SO is someone you intend to be in a long term relationship/marry before making life decisions. If so, then I would have an open discussion with your SO. I had the same discussion where we ultimately decided I take the full scholarship which was too good to pass up especially since we both would have to work off a gigantic loan. My SO ultimately stayed behind for career reasons.

 

[CorallyPink]

It is full PF even for clinical afaik for our year, so no AOA or anything anymore. I’m unsure about things like subinternships but it’s probably not a big deal. At HMS the grading is full P/F for M1-M2, then you get grades that are essentially meaningless as they only send grades for your chosen specialty in the Match.

Only the first 3 years are pass/np. Fourth year isn't. The school still hasn't gotten rid of AOA. It was recommended by students, but hasn't been passed yet. However, I believe AOA will be gone eventually at UCSF. I vote for Harvard because of the full ride. However, if UCSF gives you good financial aid, choose UCSF. Financial aid should be out before second look for UCSF!

 

[ihaveagf]

Only the first 3 years are pass/np. Fourth year isn't. The school still hasn't gotten rid of AOA. It was recommended by students, but hasn't been passed yet. However, I believe AOA will be gone eventually at UCSF. I vote for Harvard because of the full ride. However, if UCSF gives you good financial aid, choose UCSF. Financial aid should be out before second look for UCSF!

Btw, I think the UCSF financial aid package comes out early April, which is much earlier than the second look day

 

[boeufetbeurre]

Only the first 3 years are pass/np. Fourth year isn't. The school still hasn't gotten rid of AOA. It was recommended by students, but hasn't been passed yet. However, I believe AOA will be gone eventually at UCSF. I vote for Harvard because of the full ride. However, if UCSF gives you good financial aid, choose UCSF. Financial aid should be out before second look for UCSF!

Oh man, sorry, I was going by what the 4th year told us on interview day! I'm definitely leaning towards HMS regardless, the money just makes it even better.

 

[Walter Raleigh]

You might ask UCSF if they could match Harvard's financial aid. If not: how important is that relationship with your SO, as weighed against hundreds of thousands of dollars in loans and Harvard's prestige?

 

[Wahkoon]

UCSF will not match aid from other schools; they are entirely need based and do not give any merit money.

@boeufetbeurre I made an identical choice (UCSF vs HMS w/ REACH) minus the SO. I eventually decided on HMS due to the reasons you listed in your post (cost and experiences on east coast), however having a SO in the picture definitely changes things.

First, I wouldn’t rush into you decision. Wait for your aid packages, both of which should arrive early April. If you have high financial need, you should also receive a sizeable package from UCSF, although HMS’s changes to aid this year in addition to REACH will be impossible to beat. Second, HMS revisit is open to SO/spouses, so I think you should at least consider going together and getting a better feel for Boston. Once you have definitive numbers, I would have a serious discussion with your SO. Turning down HMS w/ scholarship isn’t crazy if you and your partner would truly be happier in SF.

Best of luck!

 

[boeufetbeurre]

UCSF will not match aid from other schools; they are entirely need based and do not give any merit money.

@boeufetbeurre I made an identical choice (UCSF vs HMS w/ REACH) minus the SO. I eventually decided on HMS due to the reasons you listed in your post (cost and experiences on east coast), however having a SO in the picture definitely changes things.

First, I wouldn’t rush into you decision. Wait for your aid packages, both of which should arrive early April. If you have high financial need, you should also receive a sizeable package from UCSF, although HMS’s changes to aid this year in addition to REACH will be impossible to beat. Second, HMS revisit is open to SO/spouses, so I think you should at least consider going together and getting a better feel for Boston. Once you have definitive numbers, I would have a serious discussion with your SO. Turning down HMS w/ scholarship isn’t crazy if you and your partner would truly be happier in SF.

Best of luck!

As with most things, I'm remaining very patient with this decision and waiting for financial aid mostly. I highly doubt, especially with HMS's new policy, that UCSF will give me better aid in an area that cost 20% more to live in. Additionally I've had a ton of long conversations with my SO and she seems to be accepting of Boston and could see her starting her own career there in the short term until its MBA time. I think if she had some specific things lined up in SF I would absolutely be willing to go in the interests of our collective career, but as it stands, I am the one with the definite path, and she will be able to make her own way in Boston without much friction. For now, I lean strongly towards HMS. Thank you so much for your thoughtful consideration of my situation and advice!

 

[jessicajonesharvard]

Just curious, what is considered "a very poor background" for UCSF financial aid? Like combined parents' wage 25-40k a year?

 

[boeufetbeurre]

Just curious, what is considered "a very poor background" for UCSF financial aid? Like combined parents' wage 25-40k a year?

I’m sure anything below like 80k a year is considered lower income for a place like HMS or any top tier medical school. I’m not going to spout my or my families finances all over a public forum, but if you get full pell grants or other low-income supplemental grant you’d have an indication that you’re very low income compared to your peers. 25-40k is also really low especially on the 25k side.

 

[965978]

Think long and hard about giving up what is essentially a full ride to Harvard. I know that relationships are important but you need to consider the fact that 10, 15, 20 years from now, it could really damage your relationship if a voice in the back of your head keeps on telling you that you would have been debt free and could have gotten a Harvard medical degree.

 

[elderflowers]

The REACH scholarship is an amazing opportunity! I would really urge you to take it. Who knows, you may both end up loving Boston. And if not, it's only 4 years and you can go off to the west coast afterward. I took the REACH scholarship last year so I can really only speak about HMS, but let me know if you have any questions 🙂