UCSF vs. HMS

[pleasehelpme111]

Hi everyone, so grateful to have these choices even though it is such a tough decision. I would love the input mostly from attending academic physicians (I respect everyone’s opinions but I really want to get the viewpoint of those on the path I am aiming for)

With that said, I am hoping to become an academic physician with a large part of my productivity devoted to research and teaching, hopefully in a surgical subspecialty of some kind (likely pediatric). I’m from Cali originally then did undergrad and gap years in the Midwest, but would like to end up on either the east or west coast at a premier medical center for residency.



HMS

Pros:

• Its HMS
• Incredible hospitals, best research in the country
• Opens doors for academics
• Bias for MGH/BWH residencies

Cons:

• So expensive: would result in loans of about 200-250k

UCSF

Pros:

• Great research as well as clinical training
• Good for matching back to UCSF and other top Cali programs
• Also opens doors for academics, though not nearly as much as HMS

Cons:

• Curriculum is more new, seems like it still has quite a few kinks and the students complain about Step1 integration
• Facilities are old
• Public, so funding may be dwindling
• Feel like the reputation may be slipping?
• Still expensive, would result in around 100k of loans

I also have the option of attending a Top 20 school with a full tuition scholarship or Yale with no aid. The pro for attending a T20 school with that price is just that: the incredible price. But because I really want to be doing research and teaching with the best of the best, I think it is probably best for me to try and get elite pedigree so that no doors are closed for me in the future.


The full tuition scholarship at the T20 school is definitely enticing, but it would not put me in the upper tier of schools which I know academics is usually so infatuated with (along with access to the best of the best in terms of mentors and research).

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[younggotti]

You’re overpowered m8. Congrats on these amazing choices.

In my humble and inexpert opinion I don’t think there’s much difference in the opportunities you’d get from UCSF vs Harvard. UCSF is by no means losing repute (it’s regarded as super elite anddesireable and will likely be so for a long time). Either would likely give you your choice of residency/access to an academic career.

I do wanna know why you’re writing off the full CoA at Yale. It also sounds like a great opportunity

 

[pleasehelpme111]

You’re overpowered m8. Congrats on these amazing choices.

In my humble and inexpert opinion I don’t think there’s much difference in the opportunities you’d get from UCSF vs Harvard. UCSF is by no means losing repute (it’s regarded as super elite anddesireable and will likely be so for a long time). Either would likely give you your choice of residency/access to an academic career.

I do wanna know why you’re writing off the full CoA at Yale. It also sounds like a great opportunity

Thanks, sorry I meant that I got no aid there so I would pay full COA (edited)

 

[#thriving]

Wondering what the other top 20 is with a full ride...

 

[arabet]

imo take the T20 with full COA (if you like the school in general). While there will be a slight bump for Harvard/UCSF, going to any T20 school is more than good enough to get you to the same place in the end. Harvard/UCSF residencies will be fully within reach from a T20.

that being said, I wouldn't consider UCSF too expensive at 100k. Harvard seems to be about what most med schools will cost without aid

 

[deleted962973]

Would you mind listing what the other T20 on a full ride is? Is it a T20 with more regional or national recognition?

 

[libertyyne]

Congrats, there is no wrong choice,and I am not the expert you are looking for. However, UCSF has more research dollars compared to Harvard Med. It has more than double the number of NIH funded PI's.

That being said, I would personally take the Free deal and run with it especially considering it is from a t-20. The reason is , it will allow you to take risks with your career that you otherwise might not be able to, take massive paycuts to do more research without batting an eye etc.

I would also explore this website and look at the specific departments or fields you are interested in and look at funding for those fields to diffrenciate on a finer level.
Ranking Tables of National Institutes of Health (NIH) Award Data 2017

 

[lalalallala]

HMS is definitely not worth 200-250k prior to interest in my eyes. T20 is still a very, very good school. You could always try to match at UCSF or HMS for residency. I don't see any reason why a T20 would limit your life options, especially considering many people end up not wanting to go into academic medicine due to the hours/pay. Many people at T20s match in their top, competitive choices. Also I feel like you are putting a bit too much weight into ranks - you say UCSF may be slipping? From what T3 to T5 or T10? Your success in academic medicine will depend on how you do. Don't put yourself under a mountain of debt for a few rankings spots.

 

[Quantal Reasoning]

T20 without a doubt. My goodness, you would be crazy to turn that down. Show me a T20 that can't match anywhere they want.

 

[Wahkoon]

Congrats, there is no wrong choice,and I am not the expert you are looking for. However, UCSF has more research dollars compared to Harvard Med. It has more than double the number of NIH funded PI's.
View attachment 252660


That being said, I would personally take the Free deal and run with it especially considering it is from a t-20. The reason is , it will allow you to take risks with your career that you otherwise might not be able to, take massive paycuts to do more research without batting an eye etc.

I would also explore this website and look at the specific departments or fields you are interested in and look at funding for those fields to diffrenciate on a finer level.
Ranking Tables of National Institutes of Health (NIH) Award Data 2017

That’s not true. The research funding for Harvard is unclear because it is broken down by hospital (MGH, BID, BWH, BCH, DFCI). Together they are easily #1 in funding. I’m fact, if MGH opened its own school, it’s research funding would instantly be T10.

 

[libertyyne]

That’s not true. The research funding for Harvard is unclear because it is broken down by hospital (MGH, BID, BWH, BCH, DFCI). Together they are easily #1 in funding. I’m fact, if MGH opened its own school, it’s research funding would instantly be T10.

Im not sure if you are correct. Considering

 

[ReggieVeggie]

Im not sure if you are correct. Considering
View attachment 252687View attachment 252688

I may be looking in the wrong place, but this seems to support Wahkoon's claim. This shows that MGH would be 10th or 11th on your previous list by itself (depending on if you add those two rows together).

 

[libertyyne]

I may be looking in the wrong place, but this seems to support Wahkoon's claim. This shows that MGH would be 10th or 11th on your previous list by itself (depending on if you add those two rows together).

The issue was not with his claim that the spinoff would put it in t20 category, rather the funding. But I stand corrected. If you do add MGH, BW and harvard you would equal UCSF.

 

[Wahkoon]

Im not sure if you are correct. Considering
View attachment 252687View attachment 252688

The way that the structure of HMS was explained to me was that the 5 hospitals have a lot more autonomy than at other schools. Rather than having a "Harvard Medical Center" they are more of a group of hospitals associated with HMS. Because of this, NIH funding isn't listed under HMS, it is listed individually under the individual hospitals. Looking at the 2018 hospital funding at BRIMR.org shows their funding.

 

[lalalallala]

I understand why yall are clarifying the funding to support claims, but for OP I really don't think this is relevant. You don't need the highest amount of NIH funding - you just need a good lab or PI for you to work with that is hopefully well connected.

 

[Wahkoon]

OP, you mentioned a full tuition scholarship at a T20... that's just tuition and not COA correct? Depending on where it is, all other expenses aside from tuition could also add up to near $100k.

What is really important to you? You didn't really mention anything about fit. You will easily be able to match anywhere in the country from UCSF or Harvard (and likely the T20 if your Step 1 is solid). I think if cost is very important to you, UCSF would be best: funding is fine; reputation is not slipping; and a lot of money is being spent on new facilities (Mission Bay and renovation of Parnassus).

 

[differentiating]

UCSF

Pros:

• Great research as well as clinical training
• Good for matching back to UCSF and other top Cali programs
• Also opens doors for academics, though not nearly as much as HMS

Cons:

• Curriculum is more new, seems like it still has quite a few kinks and the students complain about Step1 integration
• Facilities are old
• Public, so funding may be dwindling
• Feel like the reputation may be slipping?
• Still expensive, would result in around 100k of loans

In my experience at UCSF:
- doors are wide open for academics
- depends on what you mean by old facilities; Parnassus is older (though as mentioned, is undergoing renovations), but hospitals like Mission Bay are shiny and new
- I haven't heard of any issues with funding or reputation? On the residency trail, being a UCSF student was definitely a major plus

I know nothing about HMS in particular since I didn't apply there, but I don't think there's much of a prestige difference between HMS/UCSF/Stanford if that's your concern, at least on the West Coast. I agree that you should also take into account fit & cost if you can't make the decision, and that it's worth considering the other T20 if it's a huge savings at a still-strong program.

 

[CorallyPink]

For UCSF, I have talked to current first, second, and third years. The third years seem unhappy with the curriculum since they were the first class with the new curriculum. However, the school has made significant changes to improve the Bridges curriculum. Talking to MS1s, most of them are happy. For example, they are adding some multiple choice (although not graded) into the curriculum to help students prepare for step 1. Graded tests are all still free response questions though. UCSF historically has never focused on step 1 and their average step 1 score each year is a little lower than schools of the same ranking. On the positive side, their clinical training has always been top-tier. Even the MS3s (although they are unhappy with the pre-clinical curriculum) say that the clinical training is amazing. I wouldn't be too worried about the new curriculum since you'll be the 4th cohort. I hope this information provides a little more information for you!

I would say go to a school you'll be most happy at. I know the loans you may need to take to go to Harvard/UCSF seems like a lot, but you will be able to pay it back. If there isn't one school that screams "this is the one" at you though, choose the T20 with a full scholarship. All of them are great choices. Best of luck choosing!

 

[camnewton1]

OP you say that for UCSF, you'd have to take out about 100 k in loans. This is actually a very reasonable amount and especially considering UCSF's stature in medicine; while you definitely will have tremendous opportunity coming from the T20 a school like UCSF will open even more doors, especially for academic medicine. Would you have to take out loans to attend the T20 for cost of living? If so there is most likely going to be a very negligible difference and I'd vote UCSF!