UCSF vs. Pacific?

[t2thDr14]

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I've been accepted to both UCSF and Pacific.

For a long time I've dreamed about going to Pacific because of how happy and wonderful everyone is - students, faculty, administrators, and alumni. Plus they have fantastic facilities, which of course they should have since it's a private institution.

However, I'm getting more enticed at the idea of going to UCSF, where the program is 4 years instead of 3, and is P/F instead of traditional grading... which translates to me as having an easier time learning the material. Plus they have are full of resources, and have a great professional community of medicine, nursing, pharmacy, and physical therapy combined with dentistry.

I want to keep my options open in terms of specializing, so I want to rock the National Boards. I'm afraid Pacific's curriculum is so rigorous that not only is it difficult to do well in the didactic classes, but there isn't enough time to study and prepare for the Boards.

Do you have some insights or opinions on comparisons of the schools? It seems like students coming out of UCSF are happier now than they were decades ago. Pacific also has a new dean... which concerns me, since a bunch of my dad's friends who were faculty there under Dugoni have suddenly stopped being faculty there.

Any and all comments welcome! Thanks!!

 

[GRAD]

I didnt even get an interview to Pacific, i think my app was a liitle too late, or else i just wasnt good enough. Anyways, i dunno, but i think that if i did get into UOP, i woulda gone there cause its only 3 years. thats another year to finally be stress free. But UCSF is supposed to be a great school too! I think if especially you wanna be a GP, go to UOP.

 

[nate28]

Forget those two, go to UCLA!! 😉

 

[bl1ndfolded]

I'm having the same difficulty deciding between UCLA and UOP.

BUT...if I were choosing between Pacific and UCSF, I would definitely pick Pacific. It seems as though their faculty and students are much happier and their facilities are definitely nicer than SF's. Also, my impression of UCSF was that they focus a little more on research and not as much on the clinical aspect compared to UOP.

I'm also thinking about specializing and although I know it will be hard at UOP to study for the boards and do well...I don't think the difficulty level is going to be much worse than at any other school. Either way you're gonna have to do super well.

Also...the 3 year program is definitely something that entices me, since I am planning on specializing, that one year off is a plus. I guess it might not matter when you're looking at 8 years specializing compared to 7, but whatever.

 

[crazy_sherm]

I had the same choice to make between UCSF and UOP. I ended up going with UOP because I felt I would more comfortable in the environment. While UCSF didn't rub me in the wrong way, I didn't feel excited about the prospects of attending when I went to my interview. UOP on the other hand made me excited about starting school again. I'm also a non-traditional student, going back 5 years after undergrad, so I the 3-year aspect was pretty attractive.

As for specializing, I would think UCSF has a better didactic curriculum. I like how the classes are integrated into streams as opposed to the traditional style still being used for most classes at UOP. Having the first summer off is a real bonus as far as studying for boards. I know a lot of the D1's at UCSF took them during the summer before school started back up.

We didn't get as much time off and had to study for boards on top of our other classes, though the school worked with us to move some classes around to free up an afternoon here and there. That's one thing at UOP that I'm very happy about, the faculty is very receptive to our input and is willing to make adjustments mid-year to improve our experience. I ended up with a 92 on Part I, not bad considering I don't plan on specializing. I'm sure the gunners are scoring higher than that. It's not impossible to specialize at UOP, about 10% of each class makes in not including GPR/AEGD.

One thing you may also consider is since you'll graduate 1 year earlier is that some highly competitive specialties like OS and endo don't always accept students right out of dental school. During that extra year you can do a GPR/AEGD or OS internship to which will probably increase your chances over having a couple higher points on your NBDE part 1. Just something to think about.

Feel free to PM me if you have any specific questions. Good luck with your choice, it won't be a bad one either way.👍

 

[t2thDr14]

Thanks for the honest and thoughtful input everyone, especially Crazy Sherm. =) I really appreciate it!

I'm pretty sure I'll be going into GPR after graduating anyway, to get more clinical experience with more medically compromised and more challenging cases anyway. I've heard that specialties like to see students who have had GPR/AEGD experience =). Do you have any idea what the percentage of students at UOP or UCSF go into GPR/AEGD after graduating?

I love the atmosphere at UOP too. The students and faculty there have a way of inspiring applicants and prospectives to do well in school, and turn out to be a great person. That’s one of the reasons I worry about finalizing plans with UCSF. I might always be wondering what it would have been like to go to UOP.

I don’t mean to sound degrading to UOP’s students but this is just a sort of hypothesis I’ve come up with after visiting the school many, many times. While I love the humanistic environment, I have the feeling that most students are happy because they are from dental families, know they want to GP, and are only concerned with doing enough to pass. As long as they pass the classes and pass the Boards (no matter their score) they’re happy… cuz in the long run, the scores won’t really matter anymore. Am I off?

I’m concerned about the 3 year program and its level of intensity. Having classes everyday pretty much 8am-5pm, with evening clinics 6-9pm doesn’t sound like it leaves much room for a social life. Is there any time to have fun and enjoy yourself? Or how about fitting in time for research and community service… stuff that specialties like to see too? I know you (Crazy Sherm) said you aren’t particularly interested in specializing, but maybe you know some people who are planning on specializing? I’m assuming that the stuff you need to do for specializing, you also need to do to get into GPR and AEGD. Is that wrong?

And with UOP’s new dean, do you (Crazy Sherm) know if Ferrillo is planning on changing anything from how Dugoni ran things?

Sorry for the long message. I really appreciate your insight!

 

[pine88]

Warning, anecdotal evidence to follow. Please do not scold me:

I just talked to a UCLA alum friend of mine who was back in town from his endo residency in Pennsylvania. He had heard I decided to go to UoP, and said congrats, it's a great school, and that his specialty program loves UoPers. There were a few already in the program, and one more coming next year. In his experience, the UoP alums have been clinically competent. I've been a little nervous because I heard that UoP doesn't place many of it's graduates in specialties, but he said on the contrary, many people specialize coming out of UoP.



As for UCSF, I don't really know much about it 🙂

Good luck with your decision

 

[nate28]

Warning, anecdotal evidence to follow. Please do not scold me:

I just talked to a UCLA alum friend of mine who was back in town from his endo residency in Pennsylvania. He had heard I decided to go to UoP, and said congrats, it's a great school, and that his specialty program loves UoPers. There were a few already in the program, and one more coming next year. In his experience, the UoP alums have been clinically competent. I've been a little nervous because I heard that UoP doesn't place many of it's graduates in specialties, but he said on the contrary, many people specialize coming out of UoP.



As for UCSF, I don't really know much about it 🙂

Good luck with your decision

I remember Dr. Yarborough saying that about 20% of each class applies for some kind of program after graduation, and just about all of them get in. What's nice about UOP is that they don't have an endo program so the students get some experience w/ root canals.

Then I've never heard of a UCSF student not getting into a specialty if they wanted to specialize. They might have had to move across the country, but they got in.

 

[t2thDr14]

Thanks for everyone's input! =)

 

[PDizzle]

It is difficult to answer this because you will have to find someone who has a high degree of personal experience with both schools, which is very rare, so you are kinda on your own here. 🙂

I can say nothing about UoP outside general common knowledge(3 yrs instead of 4, faculty much nicer and willing to work harder for you, more expensive, etc).

I've talked to many D 4's and current UCSF residents (some from UoP!) and the general thing is, if you want to specialize, you can do it at either school. You have to nail the NBDE part I with a low to mid 90's and get good letters of rec. UCSF's pass/fail will have no bearing (I.E. the lack of class rank). Look at other schools that pass/fail: UCLA, Harvard!

I have not seen the facilities at UoP so have no comparison, but UCSF seems fine. Pre-clinic is great. We all have LCD's to see the instructors. Everything works. No leaky ceilings. I mean, what do you really want in a pre-clinic facility? You want it to be shiny? My hand pieces work, I'm good to go.
I've spent a little time in actual clinic and it seems OK too.


My only complaint about UCSF is that it is a bit disorganized but in their defense, it is a new curriculum and they are working out the bugs. I couldn't be happier at UCSF.



Bottom line, you can't go wrong with either school. Congrats on getting into both of them.

Good luck on your decision.


PDizzle

 

[thedudeabides6]

I don’t mean to sound degrading to UOP’s students but this is just a sort of hypothesis I’ve come up with after visiting the school many, many times. While I love the humanistic environment, I have the feeling that most students are happy because they are from dental families, know they want to GP, and are only concerned with doing enough to pass. As long as they pass the classes and pass the Boards (no matter their score) they’re happy… cuz in the long run, the scores won’t really matter anymore. Am I off?


And with UOP’s new dean, do you (Crazy Sherm) know if Ferrillo is planning on changing anything from how Dugoni ran things?

Sorry for the long message. I really appreciate your insight!

I can assure you that people in the school definitely want to do well and succeed in classes (well, most people that is). I think you might have gotten this feeling that people aren't too concerned with grades, because the students are not competitive at all. Everyone helps the other students, but people do want to do well, and there are still plenty of people that plan on specializing.

As far as Dean Ferrillo, he is big on technology. He is planning on making the clinic paperless soon (he says by this July, but I am skeptical). Other than that, I don't know of any major changes that he has planned. It is not like he is going to completely turn around a very successful program.

 

[djeffreyt]

I didn't quite have to pick between UCSF and UOP. I got my UOP interview early and heard very early from UCSF when they first started handing out interviews...but by then, I had several interviews and decided to reject the UCSF interview because I knew I wanted to go to UOP...luckily I got accepted.

Anyway, I actually think that the clinics at UCSF and UOP are about equal...there are differences, but both are very nice and well kept...and UCSF has a view instead of a basement. I didn't like the pre-clinicla facilities at UCSF as much though.

I think the curriculum for didactic at UCSF is probably more interestingly arranged than UOP's more standard format. It is one of the reasons I liked both UCSF and UNLV...their curriculum format. However, the 3 year program, extremely friendly nature, and atmosphere of fun that UOP possesses won me out in the end.


Also, I've spoke with both Dr. Furrilo and Dr. yarborough at some length about if there are any major changes to come to UOP with the new dean. Both assured me that there would not be any major changes at the detriment of the students...who know if it will be true, but I believed them...course I believed in Santa Clause for a long time without proof too.

 

[Denticized]

The toughest choice ever man!

I know that you already know everything about both programs but I am just gonna tell you how I feel. At uop given that you have to finish everything in just three years it is difficult to do well on the board(s) in order to specialize.
I think (from what everybody says) that UCSF is better for specializing but if you want to become a GP, man, go for UOP in a heartbeat and don't even think about CF since it takes only three years and you'll be equally skilled.

 

[Lemming]

Anyway, I actually think that the clinics at UCSF and UOP are about equal...there are differences, but both are very nice and well kept...and UCSF has a view instead of a basement. I didn't like the pre-clinicla facilities at UCSF as much though.

The one important piece of information that everyone overlooks is that makes the clinics completely different is that UCSF has every specialty known to the modern world. This comes into place when are in the clinics and you want to do any type of extractions, perio, endo etc. When you go to a school with specialty clinics that scarf up all of the specialty area cases, you are left with what????...fill and drill. Simply put, if you want to be a GP, you are going to get much more repetition, exposure and experience performing complicated cases (and even non-complicated ones). So go to UOP or any school without specialties if you want to be a GP. If you want to specialize, maybe a school with all the specialty areas might be better. Shiny instruments and fancy equipment mean nothing if the school can't provide the property cases and repition of these skills to properly train you.

 

[t2thDr14]

Thanks guys! For a while now I was leaning towards UCSF, because it's almost half of UOP's price tag, it has a professional community, opportunities for research and specialties, and they have a great curriculum (P/F, two ISOs/wk, streamlined).

But the environment at UOP is just so great, and I feel like there's always this glow about the people who end up going and graduating from there. =P

Hehe, I just got the acceptance from Harvard on Friday... which kinda throws everything into a bit of a whirlwind. 😕

What to do what to do... I'm pretty sure I still want to stay in California, but maaann... it's HARVARD! 😀

 

[in her drawer]

What to do what to do... I'm pretty sure I still want to stay in California, but maaann... it's HARVARD! 😀

Congrats, man. Although, Harvard is just a name and it wears off eventually...

 

[djeffreyt]

Don't forget to enunciate the first "a" with a throaty, low tone and slightly drop the hard-"r". As in "I go to Haaavard."

I agree. Harvard is a name and a great school...UOP is also a great name and a great school...in the end, no one really cares. No one in my family or any of my friends ever asked any of their dentists what schools they went to, until of course I started my trek towards dentistry...now my family asks all their dentists...but they still could care less.

 

[t2thDr14]

Thanks guys. It's too bad I'm still torn. 🙁 Been chatting with peoples from UCSF and UOP, so I've heard great things about both schools. I don't know why it's just so hard to make a decision and stick by it.

Here's a link I found to another thread of the same topic... for those who might be interested.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=346716