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I will be interviewing at these two places soon for OMFS...did anybody do externships or applied here before...can anyone tell me more about the two programs...thanks
UF: Gainesville and Jacksonville
- Thread starter High Desert Doc
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Jacksonville is a pretty decent program. They have strong faculty and teach a very wide scope of procedures. I think that with time it will overtake Miami's program in terms of reputation.
G'ville has some "serious" issues... Some faculty personalities there are a little more "suspect" than usual. Nevertheless its still a half-way decent program. There is something to be said about what you make of a program as well... I know some grads of their program and they turned out to be excellent surgeons.
Bottom line... make the most of your interviews. If you like the places then rank them accordingly. The rest is out of your control.
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Don't know much about Gainesville...
Jxnville: Great overall program. Heavy trauma, good craniofacial w/Steinberg, good oncology w/Fernandes, hopefully improving orthognathics and dentoalveolar w/new addition of Vega.
Disadvantages: I heard Fattahi is leaving which will cut back on cosmetics. Not affiliated w/dental school and has suboptimal dentoalveolar experience. Also, must relocate or commute during a big chunk of med school to Gainesville which can be a real pain in the ass. Plus, I hear Rui Fernandes will most likely be starting a fellowship in H+N oncology which may dilute your cancer experience as a resident.
I still think this is a powerhouse program and with some improvements over the next few years, I believe this program has the potential to become a top-5 program...
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Where is Fattahi going?
I agree in that this has the potential to be a very strong program. When I externed, it was a 4 yr program. The drawback that I saw was dentoalveolar. Very little. Very little 3rds and implants, but a ton of trauma, cosmetics, craniofacial, and, now, cancer.
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What programs are now considered to be the Top 5 (or 6 if your including UT southwestern)?
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Common question and all up for debate... but, I'll still put in my 2 cents. In no particular order, my top 6 would be:
UAB
Parkland
Louisville
Shreveport
Oregon
New Orleans (before the hurricane, from what I hear, still goin strong, just in transition)
I think UAB, Parkland, and Shreveport are shoe-ins, the others could be subtituted by programs like KY, Houston, San Antonio, Baylor, and maybe 1 or 2 others I'm overlooking... But, again, you have to realize this is a subjective opinion, all depends on what you're looking for in a program. The ones I listed are for overall scope, intensity of training, and reputation...
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I would be very wary of Jax. Steinberg is a great surgeon and has a good reputation but he is a little strange. I externed there many moons ago when they were still affiliated with G-ville and the Jax portion of the program was a total dog. That being said, they have a great crew there now. A place like that can just change so quickly. Don't go to G-ville. Bottom line.
As far as top five, it really depends on what you want. All of the places above are great, but for different reasons. You really need to sit down and decide exactly what you want out of a program, ie trauma heavy, dentoalveolar, cancer, etc. and see which program offers that. Almost none are "full scope", even Parkland, so look carefully. The only one that would probably qualify as truly full scope is Shreveport. Most are lacking something. For example San Antonio, where I was a resident for a time, is lacking in cancer and cleft surgery. Did that bother me? No because they were very strong in orthognathics and did a bit of cosmetics which were good for me. Plus the director and faculty were very pro-resident. Definitely try and guage that aspect of a program as you can't emphasize it enough. Places like UAB have enough horror stories to fill a book.
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spoke to someone (who spoke to someone) who is at Jax. They said Fattahi isnt going anywhere. I hope that's true. Any word on other places where there are potentially similar changes happening?
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I heard Ed Ellis was leaving Parkland.
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That was just you dreaming.
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Hey, one of our red shirts told me today that he had originally gotten an interview at Jax a few weeks ago, he accepted it. Then later they called him and told him too many people had accepted their interview and now he was axed from their list and couldn't come!
What gives!
That is shady city. I would give that poor receptionist a piece of my mind.
What gives!
That is shady city. I would give that poor receptionist a piece of my mind.
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When I heard Fattahi was leaving my PD called Rui and got the real story. Fattahi is going no where. He's staying put in Jax....
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Same thing happened to me -- invited for an interview, then waitlisted, then yesterday I hear I'm invited for the "last spot remaining" if I'm interested.
(In Napoleon Dynamite voice) "Gawsh! Idiots!"
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Yeah, doesnt surprise me at all. When I got my interview, and I called to confirm in less than 24 hours, I was told "I dont know if there are any left, we may be full"l. Then when the long pause, due to my disbelief ended, I disturbingly asked, "I got an email last night that said I had been selected for an interview," she said yeah, "we have had alot of people respond." Uh......no **** you have, you just invited applicants for an interview, of course people are going to respond. Well, I ended up getting the "last spot".
The best thing is, I now cant go because of conflicting dates. I feel like just no-showing on interview day. That would probably come back to haunt me though.
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I agree that doesnt sound fair, but don't no show. That only hurts another person applying.
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The screwed me over and took away my interview too. Screw them over for me and tell them you are not going 1 day prior.
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The screwed me over and took away my interview too. Screw them over for me and tell them you are not going 1 day prior.
But that doesnt screw the program. It screws some other dental student trying to GET an interview
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If they offer you an interview then they should honor it PERIOD. If they treat you like s*** off the bat when most programs are kissing your a$$ what do you think they will do to you once you have swallowed their hook?
When I went to UF, Jax was not a good program but anyones estimate. FYI: I interviewed for OMFS in 2004. The UAB grads they have recruited are both great individuals (based on externing at UAB), Steinberg has a rep for being pecular like a previous poster mentioned (on the Jax swat team if I recall correctly) Did Fahtatti do a cosmetic fellowship? Anyway, I'd recommend caveat emptor, the latest and greatest isn't always as advertised. Go with one of the previous posters top 6..........
When I went to UF, Jax was not a good program but anyones estimate. FYI: I interviewed for OMFS in 2004. The UAB grads they have recruited are both great individuals (based on externing at UAB), Steinberg has a rep for being pecular like a previous poster mentioned (on the Jax swat team if I recall correctly) Did Fahtatti do a cosmetic fellowship? Anyway, I'd recommend caveat emptor, the latest and greatest isn't always as advertised. Go with one of the previous posters top 6..........
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Yeah, dude. I externed at Jax a few years ago. Program was shady. They didn't have Rui Fernandez back then, and was just turning into a 6yr. They did a lot of "big" surgeries, with Steinberg's craniofacial stuff and Fattahi's cosmetology. I'm sure adding Fernandez's Oncology only added to that. They were very weak in dentoalveolar, including implants. The chief was about to graduate and had only done a handful of implants (one handful).
Fattahi did Evans fellowship in Ohio
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I never post on this, but I happened to go to UF for dental school. It's funny how word gets around, but it's never very accurate. Gainesville is actually an excellent program, ask any dental student who went there. After the interview trail you realize that every program has strengths and weaknesses....including your own. Gainesville is great for private practice oral surgery. NONE of the attendings are leaving in the next 5-6 years....at least not Dolwick if that's what you're wondering. You'll be hard pressed to find another program that does as much orthognathic. They also run sedation clinic 5 days a week, they're assoc. w/ a dental school so you don't have to do a bunch of point and pull crap...the dental students see all the trolls....you see pts w/ medicaid and ones that pay. They used to be weak in trauma, but they are a level 1 trauma center now...so trust me...they do plenty. They also have Dolwick who is known by all the old school boys...he's awesome, laid back, specializes in TMJ, orthognathic, and some craniofacial. They don't do much malig path, but a lot of benign. Oh yeah...and new this year, they starting paying their residents all 6 years and opened a new 4 year position. Let's put it this way. Last year I applied to 18 schools, got 18 interviews, went on 9, ranked 5-6 and ranked at my #1.....Gainesville happened to be my #2 choice....it's a solid program, just depends on what you want. I hope this is helpful. I just hate all the rumors you hear out there...most are so far from the truth. Ya'll will start to realize this on your own the more you visit programs. As for Jax, I externed there, but it was 2 years ago....at that time it has some great strengths and some very very big weaknesses. They're great at the big stuff, but so weak at the basics. Scant dentoalveolar. But things may be different now.
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damn...
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I would guess LSU New Orleans or Parkland for mandibles since they do ALL mandibles (ENT & Plastics don't do mandibles at these institutions). At least that's what I heard about LSU, and it could have changed since the flood.
Oral surgery is definately the leading practitioner in mandible fractures. Occlusion is key and nobody knows occlusion better than dentists. I often laugh when I see a panorex of a mandible done by ENT/Plastics. I saw a patient with a mandible fracture who was numb after her surgery (by ENT) but not before. The panorex showed a large recon plate with all 6 bicortical screws through the nerve.
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If you haven't had a patient that is "numb" after surgery, then you haven't done many ORIFs of the mandible.
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At Missouri-KC, we do all the mandibles as well. Not quite as many as Parkland and LSU-NO, but we do about 150-175/year (the number is increasing because we just starting taking 100% face call at another level 1) and we open about >90% of them (which is the true measure of mandible trauma experience because some places treat a lot of them closed). The number is fairly high considering we take 2 residents per year though as opposed to 4-5.
I agree that OMS treats mandible fractures better than ENT or Plastics. i've spoken to ENT residents at AO meetings who say that it takes them 1-2 hours to get arch bars on (as opposed to 20-25 minutes) and it seems like they are more interested in getting anatomic reduction of the bone segments, even though the occlusion might be off.
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Yeah, we still take all mandibles. Same trauma agreement as Charity. We wire at least 1-2 (more in the summer) mandibles a night. Most get plated.
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I can't tell you how many panorexes I've looked at (ORIF'd by plastics or ENT) and just shook my head.....They don't care nor do they understand occlusion; they just care that the bones are put together. I've talked to ENT's and they admit they have no clue about occlusion. It was horrible at Charity (where it's resident run) because there was no faculty for ENT to have an opinion on the matter. The residents would just reduce the fracture.....ORIF it....no arch bars....and call it a day.
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Of course I've numbed some mandibles, but not from ALL of my screws being through the nerve.
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I am writing "Patient Instructions for Follow-up Mandibular MMF Management" to insure continuing immobilization and early diagnosis of osteomyelitis and delayed union:
1. Baseline panorex one week post-op to assess bone fragment approximation
and maintainence of occlusion.
2. Special oral hygiene instructions: brushing; flossing; chlorhexadine rinses; application of wire wax; lip care; instruct patient to report pain, fever, reddness, bleeding or foul taste in mouth.
3. Weekly assessment of edema, wire irritation and MMF stability.
2. Wire adjustment as needed to maximize immobilization.
3. Panorex and mandibular palpation to verify progression of union to schedule MMF removal.
Are there any additions or changes for clarity or accuracy? ValMoor
1. Baseline panorex one week post-op to assess bone fragment approximation
and maintainence of occlusion.
2. Special oral hygiene instructions: brushing; flossing; chlorhexadine rinses; application of wire wax; lip care; instruct patient to report pain, fever, reddness, bleeding or foul taste in mouth.
3. Weekly assessment of edema, wire irritation and MMF stability.
2. Wire adjustment as needed to maximize immobilization.
3. Panorex and mandibular palpation to verify progression of union to schedule MMF removal.
Are there any additions or changes for clarity or accuracy? ValMoor
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Not bad. But if you have a busy clinic and you don't have time to go through all that nonse you could just think...
Any malocclusion?
Any pus from the fracture site when i squeeze on it?
Any swelling still?
Any mobility of the teeth or segments?
Are the arch bars or MMF loose?
If you answer no to all of the above you can have them out the chair in 20 seconds. 🙂
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are you referring to ivy loops? or imf screws?
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This is all fine for academic discussions, but less useful for the, 'real world,' I fear... What, 'cream of society,' trauma patient is going to attend weekly follow-up appointments? Or follow oral hygiene instruction properly? Furthermore, what evidence is there that good vs. poor oral hygiene has an impact on the rate of osteomyelitis or delayed union? Prompt treatment and antibiotics, or the lack thereof, are probably more prognostic
What's the difference between a panorex at 1 week vs immediately post-MMF? What benefit would a panorex at 4 or 6 weeks offer in determining your ability to remove MMF? You won't get much in the way of union showing up at that time on a radiograph. A good clinical exam and demonstable lack of segment mobility is a more appropriate definitive criterion for MMF removal.
Lastly, our osteomyelitis patients don't tend to show up in the first few weeks. It's the totally non-compliant ones who end up snipping their MMF on their own and disappearing for 2-3 months and show up complaining of pain or swelling. Or get their ass beat again and show up with a fracture in a totally new place...
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Ah, the Turkish IMF special... Apologies in advance to any people of Turkish descent who may be offended by such a statement. I am merely repeating what I heard it described as once...
Not to be confused with the Italian shower, whereby one slaps an extra coat of underarm deoderant on in lieu of a soap & water shower in the morning... Similar apologies to persons of Italian origin...
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I'm actually unsure as to what Jediwendell was referring to with regards to horror stories at UAB. During the 6 months I've been here, I've had an awesome experience w/regards to scope, variety, and getting along with residents and attendings. I know the other 2 interns seem to feel pretty much the same way. Maybe Jedi heard some rumors I was not aware of, but I'm really happy with everything so far...
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Anyone know anything about the programs in NYC (ie. strengths, weaknesses, reputation). I"m new to the OMFS world and am just starting to research different programs and externships. THanks
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For how long has UAB been taking 3 residents?
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I believe this will be the 4th year...
