UMDNJ vs Columbia??

Started by akarobie
Get help with your application

Use all the free resources available to you from SDN: articles, guides, expert advising, forums discussions, and school research.

Browse articles Compare schools My application plan Read Interview Feedback
Practice for interviews Ask an Advisor
A

akarobie

Full Member
10+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Hi!
I know this has been dealt million times but I wanted to start new thread and listen to the fresh new advices from current dental students and pre-dents from sdn. I was set to go to Columbia and I already sent my $2000 deposit. Then, last month I got an acceptance from UMDNJ which is my state school. It's been almost 2 weeks that I struggled with this decision. I searched and read all the threads and asked every dentists I know and everyone had different opinions. I need to make my decision by this Wednesday. I have been dealing with this problem and it gave me real headache. I really liked both school. They both had pros and cons. It is really tough choosing dental school. Can you guys give me some fresh advices regarding two schools? I will really appreciate your advices. Thank you.😀
 
i would choose the cheaper one and my state school. Don't let $2000 get in your way.
 
Cheaper school unless it's one of the big players. Columbia's a big player.
 
General rule of thumb is that, unless your state school is UCLA, UCSF, Michigan, Stony Brook, or UNC, you should go to Harvard/Columbia/Penn even though your state school is cheaper.
 
denniss1 said:
General rule of thumb is that, unless your state school is UCLA, UCSF, Michigan, Stony Brook, or UNC, you should go to Harvard/Columbia/Penn even though your state school is cheaper.
Click to expand...

Why do you think of that?
 
wigglytooth said:
ask yourself this: do you want a more clinical program or a more didactic program? besides cost, I see this as the fundamental difference between the two schools.
Click to expand...

If I wanted to specialize, do you think didactic program and pass/fail will give me better chance to specialize since board 1 is so much important in the process?

Thank you for advices guys. I really appreciate you all!!😉
 
umdnj will be MUCH cheaper for you, in terms of tuition and living costs (its not cheap, but hey, its not nyc). yes, umdnj i think stresses more clinical aspects, the classes are mostly separate from med students. columbia i think is more didactic. i believe they throw you into the mix with columbia med students' classes, so i'd say overall there's a lot of intelligent minds and overachievers there (not to say umdnj doesn't also have them!). columbia might carry a bit more weight with its name when/if you want to specialize.
good luck.
 
akarobie said:
If I wanted to specialize, do you think didactic program and pass/fail will give me better chance to specialize since board 1 is so much important in the process?

Thank you for advices guys. I really appreciate you all!!😉
Click to expand...

the heavy didactics of columbia (yes you take classes with the med students) might help you do better on the boards, but the criticism here is that it takes away from your clinic time. how can you know that you really like perio without seeing a ton of perio cases and comparing them with your experience with other types of cases? i'm not saying you won't get any clinic time, but i'm very strong on the "i gotta do it to know i love it" thing. ask yourself how you feel about this.

also, people specialize from all schools, just columbia has a higher amount. is it their teaching style? is it the types of students they attract? we probably won't know for sure ever.

pass/fail may take some pressure off, but they still keep track of how you do against everyone else. when it's time for a dean's letter, you could get a recommendation or a "high" recommendation based on your status.

lots of food for thought, but in the end, go with your gut.
 
do you want to specialize? if you dont you can just pass all the classes (which is not that hard) and devote most of your time to clinical training at Columbia.
if you do want to specialize: I dont know how is at UMDNJ but if they are asking you to spend all the time doing clinical stuff do you have enough time to didactically prepare for boards.
if you want to specialize you can do it in either place too. however i find it easier to study hard when i am surrounded by motivated hard working people. if most people were going out frequently and i was stuck at home i would be miserable. but that is just me. what is your personality?
also the price is important. you have to ask yourself if you would rather have an experience of living in nyc for 4 years or have a nice house earlier in life. for me personally the life experiences are more important and i had some really awesome ones in nyc already (i am a first year). what do you want?
also did you like people at one school significantly better? i would consider that too

good luck with your decision!

pm if you have any questions about columbia
 
I do wanna specialize but I'm not sure since I'm just pre-dent.
Here's info that I gathered from each school,

class size: 75 vs 85-90
grade: honor/pass/fail vs rank
clinic chair: don't know vs each will get their own chair 3rd and 4th year
cost: 293k vs 226K (This numbers are according to school 4yr school budget sheet, I think both schools have overestimated the room and board cost but it's more convenient to compare the price)
science class: w/ med vs only dent
location: washington heights (not so great) vs worse than washington heights (omg)
 
For UMDNJ, on the topic of location: you can live in a nearby town and have an ordinary suburban lifestyle. At least, that's what I'm planning to do.

I've been told that some of the nearby towns have a lot of social and cultural opportunities.
 
akarobie said:
I do wanna specialize but I'm not sure since I'm just pre-dent.
Here's info that I gathered from each school,

class size: 75 vs 85-90
grade: honor/pass/fail vs rank
clinic chair: don't know vs each will get their own chair 3rd and 4th year
cost: 293k vs 226K (This numbers are according to school 4yr school budget sheet, I think both schools have overestimated the room and board cost but it's more convenient to compare the price)
science class: w/ med vs only dent
location: washington heights (not so great) vs worse than washington heights (omg)
Click to expand...

regarding location: you dont have to live in washington heights. (then only time you would spend in washington heights would be while you are in classroom or lab) actually ~1/3 of our class doesnt. however the rent will prob be higher (unless you get super lucky) if you live in a nicer part of the city.
 
Oh, man.....this decision is way too hard.....
When I think this decision is gonna follow me forever, it freaks me out!
I really like both schools.....OMG just show me the way~~
 
This isn't recommended unless you have alot of money and like to waste it...
but if thats the case for you then just pay the deposit at both schools and you will have 3 more months to decide! 😀




akarobie said:
Oh, man.....this decision is way too hard.....
When I think this decision is gonna follow me forever, it freaks me out!
I really like both schools.....OMG just show me the way~~
Click to expand...
 
If you want to specialize, I think it's worth going to the better (maybe more expensive) school because it's not like you can't pay it off.

Columbia's area doesn't phase me, I already go to school in the ghetto lol.
 
denniss1 said:
General rule of thumb is that, unless your state school is UCLA, UCSF, Michigan, Stony Brook, or UNC, you should go to Harvard/Columbia/Penn even though your state school is cheaper.
Click to expand...

Never listen to this guy. 👎

Go to your state school and laugh your way to the bank.

jb!🙂
 
jackbauer! said:
Never listen to this guy. 👎

Go to your state school and laugh your way to the bank.

jb!🙂
Click to expand...


Yup, I already did.😉
It's always tough choice and time is running out quickly.
I wish I could run with those money and never look back. Overall, clinical education and moneywise handsdown to UMDNJ, but grading honor/pass/fail will give me some pressure off for me (not much I guess), rep and time of preparing board and extra $2000 deposit goes to Columbia.
Tonight, my family is gonna have a big family meeting so maybe tomorrow I'll know my decision. It's like I'm Brett Favre to make a decision "Should I retire or not?". jk😛
 
akarobie said:
Yup, I already did.😉
It's always tough choice and time is running out quickly.
I wish I could run with those money and never look back. Overall, clinical education and moneywise handsdown to UMDNJ, but grading honor/pass/fail will give me some pressure off for me (not much I guess), rep and time of preparing board and extra $2000 deposit goes to Columbia.
Tonight, my family is gonna have a big family meeting so maybe tomorrow I'll know my decision. It's like I'm Brett Favre to make a decision "Should I retire or not?". jk😛
Click to expand...

We don't have Honors/Pass/Fail at Maryland, but I can't imagine it taking that much pressure off. There are 3 types of dental students:

1) gunners shooting for all A's so they can specialize
2) students stressing out all the time for A's, but will be GP's
3) students not very stressed, and are more concerned with getting through school and developing hand skills

The Honors/Pass/Fail system is not all that different from grades. I'm assuming you get honors if you get an A, pass for a B or C, and fail if you get below C. So you're really not eliminating much of the competition, b/c those students in groups 1 & 2 above will still be stressing to get the "honors" grade. But, if you're like me, you're happy to be in group 3 😎

best of luck in your decision.

jb!🙂
 
i dont know how is at your school jb but i feel like having pass fail system at columbia takes away a good amount of stress. this is because there is a good % difference btw pass and honors. so one class i kind of screwed up and i know i cannot honor anymore so i just need to pass it. if it was ABC system i would still have to work for that B...this way i can work for C and no one will know that 😉 because it is just going to say P on my transcript. I feel I can afford myself few Ps while I feel having few Cs on the transcript wouldnt look the same.
 
shamrock84 said:
i dont know how is at your school jb but i feel like having pass fail system at columbia takes away a good amount of stress. this is because there is a good % difference btw pass and honors. so one class i kind of screwed up and i know i cannot honor anymore so i just need to pass it. if it was ABC system i would still have to work for that B...this way i can work for C and no one will know that 😉 because it is just going to say P on my transcript. I feel I can afford myself few Ps while I feel having few Cs on the transcript wouldnt look the same.
Click to expand...

agreed 👍

i'm borderline B-C right now in gross & my final is on friday. it would be a nice to know my transcript would say P so i wouldn't have to bust my balls for the B 😉 ... however, when all is said and done, doesn't columbia still rank their students?

jb!🙂
 
Thanks JB & Shamrock84!
I really appreciate your advices.🙂
I heard in Columbia even if school ranks you, they don't send ranking to specializing post doc school, right shamrock84? Correct me if I'm wrong.
Anyway, tomorrow is the judgement day. Tonight is gonna be a long night!
Any fresh advices are always welcome! Good luck everyone~😉
 
akarobie said:
Thanks JB & Shamrock84!
I really appreciate your advices.🙂
I heard in Columbia even if school ranks you, they don't send ranking to specializing post doc school, right shamrock84? Correct me if I'm wrong.
Anyway, tomorrow is the judgement day. Tonight is gonna be a long night!
Any fresh advices are always welcome! Good luck everyone~😉
Click to expand...

let us know what you decide. i know i'm still hoping for an interview from columbia and an acceptance from umdnj. granted one person doesn't make much difference but it certainly keeps the hope alive!

good luck with your decision.
 
akarobie said:
I do wanna specialize but I'm not sure since I'm just pre-dent.
Here's info that I gathered from each school,

class size: 75 vs 85-90
grade: honor/pass/fail vs rank
clinic chair: don't know vs each will get their own chair 3rd and 4th year
cost: 293k vs 226K (This numbers are according to school 4yr school budget sheet, I think both schools have overestimated the room and board cost but it's more convenient to compare the price)
science class: w/ med vs only dent
location: washington heights (not so great) vs worse than washington heights (omg)
Click to expand...

though the costs they put on the websites are, more often than not grossly overestimated, i feel as though the columbia price you give there will be in the 250-275k range. i'll say with conviction that umdnj is MUCH cheaper than 226k, maybe around 150-175k, depending on living like a college student or not!
 
I wish Columbia was just P/F like Harvard with no Honors....that would really take the pressure off...😀




shamrock84 said:
i dont know how is at your school jb but i feel like having pass fail system at columbia takes away a good amount of stress. this is because there is a good % difference btw pass and honors. so one class i kind of screwed up and i know i cannot honor anymore so i just need to pass it. if it was ABC system i would still have to work for that B...this way i can work for C and no one will know that 😉 because it is just going to say P on my transcript. I feel I can afford myself few Ps while I feel having few Cs on the transcript wouldnt look the same.
Click to expand...
 
Hey, guys.
Our family had the meeting and I decided to put one more deposit to UMDNJ and extend some time to decide the d-school. It's really tough to put more huge money into deposit but I came w/ conclusion that I need more time to think about it since this is one of the most important decision in my life. So, those of you who gave me great advices, I really appreciate you all from bottom of my heart.
Any additional advice is always welcome. Thank you all of you.🙂
 
I'm currently a second year at UMDNJ, and my total debt for 4 years will be ~175k. If you're from NJ and can commute from home, then it'll significantly reduce your debt (probably to ~125k?).

Btw, even if you come to UMDNJ, you will be studying/working constantly without much break. Don't think that you'll be able to "relax" with school work since our curriculum is absolutely no joke. I can assure you that every single one of us in my class works our tails off all the time.

For clinical requirements, there are a lot more to be done at UMDNJ in order to graduate as compared to Columbia. The rationale for this is that
1. UMDNJ is a state school and has to generate more income from patient visits
2. you can practice right away in NJ after graduating from dental school as long as you pass the NERB, whereas NY requires that you do at least one year of GPR - so there's a bit of practical difference in approach to clinical education between these two schools as well.

As for neighborhoods go, Newark is a bit of a dump, but I live in Society Hill, which is literally a block away from the school and is considered to be the safest (and in my opinion, most esthetically pleasing) neighborhood in Newark. Besides, Newark is surrounded by many safe, even wealthy surburban neighborhoods within 10-15 min. of driving distance. Plus, we have a new dorm building that was opened less than 2 years ago.

It's quite true that Columbia students go on to specialize more than UMDNJ students. But I think most of that comes from the type of students that each school attracts. My general perception is that people who come to UMDNJ tend to be more practically minded people who want to start making money right away while having less debt. There are many married students in my class who would feel more of that sort of urgency.

If you have any more questions, please feel free to ask me.
 
LIer2010 said:
I'm currently a second year at UMDNJ, and my total debt for 4 years will be ~175k. If you're from NJ and can commute from home, then it'll significantly reduce your debt (probably to ~125k?).

Btw, even if you come to UMDNJ, you will be studying/working constantly without much break. Don't think that you'll be able to "relax" with school work since our curriculum is absolutely no joke. I can assure you that every single one of us in my class works our tails off all the time.

For clinical requirements, there are a lot more to be done at UMDNJ in order to graduate as compared to Columbia. The rationale for this is that
1. UMDNJ is a state school and has to generate more income from patient visits
2. you can practice right away in NJ after graduating from dental school as long as you pass the NERB, whereas NY requires that you do at least one year of GPR - so there's a bit of practical difference in approach to clinical education between these two schools as well.

As for neighborhoods go, Newark is a bit of a dump, but I live in Society Hill, which is literally a block away from the school and is considered to be the safest (and in my opinion, most esthetically pleasing) neighborhood in Newark. Besides, Newark is surrounded by many safe, even wealthy surburban neighborhoods within 10-15 min. of driving distance. Plus, we have a new dorm building that was opened less than 2 years ago.

It's quite true that Columbia students go on to specialize more than UMDNJ students. But I think most of that comes from the type of students that each school attracts. My general perception is that people who come to UMDNJ tend to be more practically minded people who want to start making money right away while having less debt. There are many married students in my class who would feel more of that sort of urgency.

If you have any more questions, please feel free to ask me.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the good information about UMDNJ.
As I said before, I was set to go to Columbia until I interviewed UMDNJ.
I was very impressive w/ the school and that's why I'm torn between these schools.
I did not know Newark had a good housing other than school dorm. How much do you pay for the rent in society hill? (I thought dorm is little expensive than I thought)
Do you know how many people matched to oms/ortho/endo/pedo this year or last year? (Unlike Columbia, school did not mention previous graduates who matched the above specialties.)
Thanks again LIer2010, I really appreciate your great information!
 
akarobie said:
Thank you for the good information about UMDNJ.

Do you know how many people matched to oms/ortho/endo/pedo this year or last year? (Unlike Columbia, school did not mention previous graduates who matched the above specialties.)
Click to expand...

If I remember correctly, I believe it was 2-6 matches per specialty for last year's graduating class.
 
So columbia students ... what are some other reason why did you picked columbia? why is columbia considered one of the best except I guess for its ivy league status.
 
For what it's worth, before I interviewed at Columbia I met with a dentist who graduated from there that told me "I basically wrote my own ticket after graduating." He said he had his pick of residencies (he chose a GPR) and got his first choice job afterwards because the reputation of Columbia is so high. He also said that it was this way for pretty much all his classmates and that older dentists who hire new grads might pay about 10-15k/yr more for an ivy league grad right out of dental school. Hope that helps.
 
SoonDent said:
For what it's worth, before I interviewed at Columbia I met with a dentist who graduated from there that told me "I basically wrote my own ticket after graduating." He said he had his pick of residencies (he chose a GPR) and got his first choice job afterwards because the reputation of Columbia is so high. He also said that it was this way for pretty much all his classmates and that older dentists who hire new grads might pay about 10-15k/yr more for an ivy league grad right out of dental school. Hope that helps.
Click to expand...

:laugh:
 
Go with what is cheaper. umdnj with living is 175k columbia with living 280k. You will get a good education at both. Because of the area you will get plenty of practice. You might think that 100,000 is not that much of a diffrence. I will make that back. But financially 100,000 to make is a lot because you are fighting interest. Interest on 100,000 year after year means you have to pay more month after month. Furthermore I don't think that employers offer more for a "better" school but they offer your salary based on production. If you think I am pulling this one out of my a** my mom own 3 offices with multiple dentists working for us. And a close family friend who owns about 26 dental offices solely pays on production. Play with the numbers on a mortgage calculator with about 6.8% interest and 15 yrs to pay it back and compare your monthly payments. I think you will make a good decsion after looking at the numbers. Best of luck to you.
 
SoonDent said:
For what it's worth, before I interviewed at Columbia I met with a dentist who graduated from there that told me "I basically wrote my own ticket after graduating." He said he had his pick of residencies (he chose a GPR) and got his first choice job afterwards because the reputation of Columbia is so high. He also said that it was this way for pretty much all his classmates and that older dentists who hire new grads might pay about 10-15k/yr more for an ivy league grad right out of dental school. Hope that helps.
Click to expand...

As you progress from a pre-dent, to a dental student and ultimately a dentist, you will eventually realize that this is a most unlikely scenario.
 
I am facing similar dilemna as urself. I am trying to decide between UCONN and UMDNJ and I have until the end of the week. I really love UMDNJ, but my vision got blurring when I was offered a full scholarship to go to UCONN. I don't know what to choose yet, but I believe UMDNJ is a great school, in terms of location, class size (not too small n' not too big), faculty (they are very interested in each n' every one of there students). Columbia has the name which will help if u want to specialize, but it all the boils down to board scores in the end, which is dependent on YOU!! Now take a look at my thread UMDNJ vs. UCONN n' give me ur take on my dilmena.
 
I already pmed the OP a reply, but then found this thread. This might help others in this decision-making time, so here it is (from the viewpoint of a Columbia student):

I'm really not familiar with UMDNJ, so I can't really comment at that school. But if you are already very intent on specializing, I would definitely choose Columbia. You do not need all honors (or any where all honors, lol) to specialize. I would say that around 1/3 of our class does specialize (ortho, OMFs, perio, pedo, or endo) and the rest do AEGD/GPR. The % of students who do match into a speciality program is incredibly high at Columbia. One of the residents told me that she's still blown away at how many students apply for specialty programs--at her dental school (Tufts, I think) the class size was twice Columbia's, but she could count on her one hand how many ppl even applied to specialty programs (while at Columbia, there's already 8-9 people applying to OMFS every year, I think). So if you want to specialize, do come to Columbia. If you already know (for SURE) that you just want to be a GP, save your $$ and go to a cheaper school. The average board scores at Columbia is generally around 90 (so basically, 1/2 of the class has gotten the right score to get into specialty programs!).

Another thing to keep in mind is that you are only as good as your competition. Don't ever underestimate the power of being around students who are incredibly driven--it will push you to work even harder! Our class is very tight and we help each other out (share notes, share audiorecording responsibilities, have a transcript) BUT people still study and work like mad. Case in point: I really really wanted to do nothing but sit on my *** for spring break, but ended up doing an externship at a NYC hospital instead. The only reason why I did the externship was because 2/3 of my class is doing one over spring break. I hated my class for peer pressuring me to work harder, but in the end I was very glad b/c I learned A LOT in that week at the hospital. When you're surrounded by people of high caliber, the bar is raised, and you'd be surprised at how high you can jump. I also think another reason why so many ppl specialize is due to peer pressure--the pressure to excel.

Our class is pretty tight. Our pictures used to be available to the public on our class website, but now it's password protected b/c so many of the pics were of us being drunk and inappropriate Overall, I'm very happy with my decision, and I have made incredible friends here within the class. I just wish it wasn't so expensive!

The only downside to the school is that our clinical training is not our forte. The state schools definitely drill their students in the clinics more (they just focus more on clinics than didactics) but that is because they are training their students to be GPs, not specialists. Columbia is training for its students to be specialists, so it is a different mindset in terms of where the focus is. As for the part of the class that doesn't specialize, they all do a 1 year AEGD/GPR, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. But it's just frustrating sometimes, when I hear about so-and-so school, whose students are already doing 1231497 procedures, and I still feel SO SLOW working at even the basics. Oh wells, you lose some, you win some.

This is a very important decision in your life, b/c not only is it where you'll spend 4 years of your life, but it can also determine your future outlook. Let me know if you have any more questions!
 
Hey, have u decided yet? I have finally decide to go to UMDNJ...(sigh). I can finally breathe.
 
JA chica said:
Hey, have u decided yet? I have finally decide to go to UMDNJ...(sigh). I can finally breathe.
Click to expand...

Is that a sigh of relief? or a sigh of settling? You should be happy!

Either way, welcome to the Jerz! See ya in August!
 
JA chica said:
Hey, have u decided yet? I have finally decide to go to UMDNJ...(sigh). I can finally breathe.
Click to expand...

Congrats on your final decision making! I can feel you how tough it was!
After the deep consideration I decided it would be best for me to attend Columbia. IMO, both schools are great. Well, I'm very excited w/ my decision.🙂 It was tough but I believe I made the right one and that is up to me from now!😀
Anyway, good luck in UMDNJ!!😉
 
operationteeth said:
any new thoughts on this subject? umdnj vs. columbia?
Click to expand...

UMDNJ is thinking of giving their med school along with 2 of their other schools away to rutgers. This will have a dramatic effect on their funding but not sure how its gonna affect the dental school. Might wanna research more into it.
 
denniss1 said:
General rule of thumb is that, unless your state school is UCLA, UCSF, Michigan, Stony Brook, or UNC, you should go to Harvard/Columbia/Penn even though your state school is cheaper.
Click to expand...

Please don't forget UW, thanks.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.