Uncomfortable filling a CIIs for a patient, please guide!

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ksu

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Hello SDNers,

Have a difficult situation at work and thought to get advice here. I work at a major chain and there is a patient who threatens to report me if I do not fill his CIIs. Patient says he travels back and forth from Florida, has been prescribed Oxys and Morphine for back pain by a local doctor in NC! He has FL medicaid but begs not to bill it to Medicaid! He comes to the pharmacy and when told we dont have a certain strength, he asks what strength we have and that his Dr will write for it! So basically all these red flags and the last time he came to the pharmacy I basically ignored him answering everything in short. So he comes in next day complaints to my PIC and says I will report the other pharmacist if she ignores me/does not fill my prescriptions. The PIC tells me that we verify the scripts with the Doctor and they are legit and should fill it!!! That shocked me. Every tech in my pharmacy knows he is a crook. What should I tell my Supervisor if she calls about this? I feel very uncomfortable filling those Rxs for him even if the "nurse" at the doctor's office verifies them. I feel like the doctors illegitimate also. How do I further investigate it? How do I reply to the patient and my PIC and my Supervisor? Please guide!
 
As this is an issue involving multiple states, the DEA is the only group that can really do anything. Feel free to contact them.
If you're not comfortable filling this RX, just document everything and tell the patient to come back when the PIC is there. Your documentation will protect you from any negative outcomes from the board of pharmacy if things are as sketchy as you say.
You can also give the patient a printout of the DEA's guide to preventing diversion that mentions red flags, of which this contains 3 or so if they claim that there is nothing unusual about their request. They can then contact the DEA if they feel their guide is inappropriate.
 
if you have doubts and believe it has high abuse potential, you have every right to refuse filling it. walgreens and cvs will back you. just be frank that you're not comfortable filling his meds. theres nothing wrong with that. your company will be on your side (especially if its walgreens). ...do not say you dont have the med, or you do not have that strength. thats asking for a fight. just say you're not comfortable filling his prescription.
 
With the DEA cracking down on the chains, I don't think your supervisor will have an issue refusing it if you don't feel comfortable filling a c-II. It's not like they need that one script to stay in business.

Also call Florida Medicaid and report the fraud.
 
Most of the time the board will do nothing about these controlled rx refusal cases because they themselves know what is really going on. They are more interested in mis-fills or noncompliance with board's rules on operation and such. If anything, they'll just remind you to "handle" it a little bit more ...delicately, shall I say. Like others have said, the DEA is coming down hard on everyone about the abused controlled substances so you should stay strong with your professional judgement. I agree with the other that you can just refuse this guy and tell him to either come back when your PIC, who agrees to fill it, works on staff or go to another pharmacy to fill it if he needs it right away. My state board clearly says that if I am not comfortable filling anything Rx, I need to, by obligation for the care and safety of the patient, direct the patient to another pharmacy or resources to get the Rx fill. So as long as you provide him with another option to get the medication, you've done your duty. And again, please document document document ... and get someone else in your pharmacy to be your witness during the occasion (such as your techs) although I'd assume that your pharmacy has a camera to film the whole incidence.
 
If you work for a chain, you can also call a store near the MD and see what they think of him.
 
Hello SDNers,
How do I further investigate......

Run the PDMP report and see how this patient buys drug. If you do not have password, perhaps you may ask you friend in the same chain to run for you. In general, HIPPA law allows health care professional to share confidential information to another health care professional for timely health care management. Your state may be slightly different.

In Wisconsin, dispenser can delegate another person to run the report, meaning: pharmacist can ask technician to run the report. (http://dsps.wi.gov/pdmp/faq)
Here is the quote:
"Q: Can dispensers and practitioners delegate to another person the task of accessing and querying the PDMP for patient data?
A: Yes. Under the law, dispensers and practitioners may delegate the task of accessing and querying the PDMP for information. However, the licensed dispenser or practitioner has to verify the delegation and remains responsible for the delegate’s use of the PDMP."

In California, you can run yourself and give to another health care professional:
SOURCE: https://pmp.doj.ca.gov/pdmp/cures_faq.html
  1. Who has access to CURES information?
  2. As defined in Health & Safety Code Section 11165(c) “CURES shall operate under existing provisions of law to safeguard the privacy and confidentiality of patients.” In July 2009, pre-registered users including prescribers, pharmacists, law enforcement, and regulatory boards will be able to access a patents prescription history in order to identify and prevent the potential abuse of prescription drugs. The Prescription Monitoring Program system provides patient activity reports in an effort to combat pharmaceutical drug diversion. The role of the Prescription Monitoring Program system trusts that well informed prescribers and pharmacists can and will use their professional expertise to evaluate their patients care and assist those patients who may be abusing controlled substances. Patent activity report information is available to licensed healthcare prescribers and pharmacists authorized to dispense controlled substances.

    Data obtained from CURES shall only be provided to appropriate state, local and federal persons or public agencies for disciplinary, civil, or criminal purposes and to other agencies or entities as determined by the Department of Justice, for the purpose of educating practitioners and others in lieu of disciplinary, civil, or criminal actions. Data may be provided to public or private entities, as approved by the Department of Justice, for educational, peer review, statistical, or research purposes, provided that patient information, including any information that may identify the patient, is not compromised. Further, data disclosed to any individual or agency as described in this subdivision shall not be disclosed, sold, or transferred to any third party.
    SOURCE: https://pmp.doj.ca.gov/pdmp/cures_faq.html
That means in California, you can share CURES report to other health care professional for the purpose of educating other health care professional about the drug use of this patient and therefore discuss the decision about: dispense or not.

In extreme cases, verifying that the script was indeed written is not enough if the doctor is pill mill doctor. This explanation came from a law office that represented a chain pharmacy:

SOURCE: http://www.fdalawblog.net/fda_law_b...harmacists-corresponding-responsibility-.html

"Presented with the above evidence, the DEA stated that even if the pharmacist had verified
with the physician “each and every” prescription, the evidence showed he still violated his corresponding responsibility because many of the prescriptions “patently served no legitimate medical purpose.” Id."

(Again, that was about extreme case of a pharmacist that blatantly and blindly filled script.)


Hello SDNers,
How do I reply to the patient and my PIC and my Supervisor? Please guide!

I have pharmacist in the district who refused to fill Birth Control.
I have pharmacist in the district who refused to fill Abortion therapy (Percocet, Doxycycline, Misoprostol....).
They are still working part time as relief.

Controlled Substance: That's a different angle.
Allow me to remind you, your District Manager has seen complaints about many refusals. The main issue here will be: how you refused and how strong your reason is.

The patient may make up stories and complain that you are rude or impolite. Therefore, during the conversation with your boss, you have to give your boss no reason to think that you are rude or impolite. You need to present the nicest way of refusal and with reasons.

Imagine if you talk with your boss and you talk in confrontational tone, what would the boss think?
If this pharmacist is talking confrontational tone with me, perhaps this pharmacist is also confrontational during heated conversation with outraged patient.

See? Avoid that trap by being on your nicest behavior with your boss, at least during this explanation.

Now, back to technical refusal.
Arm yourself with news article about pharmacies being dragged into investigation because they blindly fill scripts from doctors that over prescribe.
Explain up front at the start of the conversation to your boss:

Boss, we are both on the same side here so allow me to share with you the reasons that support my action in the front line. First of all, I am very scared for us to be dragged into drug investigation by the drug police. I just read again last night about the the fact that the DEA suspended licenses of 6 Walgreens pharmacies in Florida until May 2014. That means 6 pharmacies can not sell any controlled substance for almost 10 months. That must really hurt business seriously and must have brought down profits for the whole district. Imagine the headache of attorney, court, evidences...That's why I am very careful so that we are not dragged into red flag cases. In this case, the red flags are.....
Red flag number 1 is: Patient told me not to try Medicaid because as pharmacist, once we try to bill Medicaid and we find out the medication is being refilled early, we can not fill early even with cash. Pharmacists in general often refuse script for the reason that the script is "too early to fill" and maybe that's why this person is hiding the fact that this medication is too early to fill.

Red flag number 2 is: I reviewed the DEA law and found out that currently, the DEA, drug police, has official regulation stating that the pharmacist will be prosecuted if we blindly fill prescription that is questionable and has no valid legitimate medical purpose. DEA’s regulations (21 C.F.R. § 1306.04 (Code of Federal Regulation) mandates "Pharmacist Corresponding Responsibility". This means pharmacist must verify that the doctor is not blindly prescribing outside of usual scope of practice and standard of care and the law also further stated that any pharmacist who blindly fills will be held to the same treatment with the doctor in the court of law.

SOURCE: http://deachronicles.quarles.com/20...ng-responsibility-and-red-flags-of-diversion/

"In layman’s terms the regulation states that the pharmacist is in the same position as the practitioner who issued the prescription (but without having actually conducted a medical examination of the patient) and must exercise professional judgment to determine whether a prescription for a controlled substance was issued for a legitimate reason........it is clear that a pharmacist cannot simply defer to the prescribing practitioner and must exercise his/her independent judgment when determining whether a prescription was issued for a legitimate medical purpose by a practitioner acting in the usual course of professional practice."

SOURCE: http://deachronicles.quarles.com/20...ng-responsibility-and-red-flags-of-diversion/


Finally, the drug police (DEA) stated this:

SOURCE: http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/pubs/manuals/pharm2/pharm_content.htm
"The law does not require a pharmacist to dispense a prescription of doubtful, questionable, or suspicious origin. To the contrary, the pharmacist who deliberately ignores a questionable prescription when there is reason to believe it was not issued for a legitimate medical purpose may be prosecuted along with the issuing practitioner, for knowingly and intentionally distributing controlled substances. Such action is a felony offense, which may result in the loss of one’s business or professional license (see United States v. Kershman, 555 F.2d 198 [United States Court Of Appeals, Eighth Circuit, 1977])."
SOURCE: http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/pubs/manuals/pharm2/pharm_content.htm

SOURCE: http://www.fdalawblog.net/fda_law_b...harmacists-corresponding-responsibility-.html
Those are reasons that supported my justifications to refuse to fill this red flag case. I did refuse very politely and the patient simply was complaining because patient did not get what they want.



Good luck....Now...the law is on your side...please look in your heart and find a good nice way to present to patient who is in pain...
 
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Wow! Are you kidding me with this?
If you're concerned for legal consequences surrounding the dispensation of a script, DON'T FILL IT. A pharmacist is NOT a detective/lawyer. Perform whatever investigation, time/resources permitting, and make a decision regarding your filling of a script. If your PIC or supervisor wish to use their credentials and fill the suspect script, suggest a time for all interested people to meet at the pharmacy and complete the transaction.
If a patient threatens you with blackmail, while the patient is present, contact the police and FBI.
NEVER discuss control drug inventories with patients or people that are not licensed to prescribe/dispense them. The safety and lives of the pharmacy staff can be compromised, as a result of giving that information out to the general public.

I'm not sure where Pharmacists are getting their crystal balls tuned up anymore. Perhaps if you start practicing pharmacy within the scope of the LAW and not your 'delusions of being fired mentality', the profession can improve. I understand the saturation effect, but being an insecure 'Yes' pharmacist will NOT ensure job security or career longevity. It will create the kind of stress that will destroy your family and make you miserable. If you're fired for practicing pharmacy within the scope of the law: get a good attorney. Stop guessing why you can be fired and ask your chain why they can fire their pharmacists.
If your PIC has professional/personal issues with you, confront them. Bring a resolution to the issues and demand the same respect given to customers, be afforded to you as well. Sympathize with your PIC. Inform them that you appreciate the misery they are in with their abusive/detached spouse and pain of being an absent parent (or whatever other reasons they may have for their pain) but those reasons combined with their irrational fears of why they can be fired from their job, are unacceptable reasons for their work behavior. Working together, with the other pharmacists, will ensure job security.

Reading the responses to this post are dumbfounding. Are any of the respondents, attorneys? Didn't think so. Your analysis of the law (when your not a lawyer) is nonsense. Don't you love when a patient comes in and explains pharmacology to you. Same thing. The time you spend preparing for being fired from your job, would better be served being the pharmacist you were hired to be. The paranoia and professional insecurity isn't ameliorated playing super pharmacist. Do your job, the law is designed to protect You, not the bad guys.
 
JUST SAY NO!. I AM NOT COMFORTABLE FILLING THIS PRESCRIPTION.

He can report you to anyone he wants. Have your supes office number handy.
 
Wow! Are you kidding me with this?...

Practicing under the fear of being fired leads to more mistakes and rash decisions. I know at one point when I wasn't financially secure it was stressful at times worrying about losing my job. Since I've had my financial situation squared away going to work has been much better. They don't need me and I don't need them.
 
Let your PIC be aware of the situation. Call local stores where that Dr. is located and ask if they fill for him or what is the situation there. Document. Give your DM a heads up of the situation. And call your state board if need be and explain what is coming before you.
 
Wow! Thank you all for your guidance...I needed it. I was even more scared when my PIC said I need to fill it as the doctor verifies the rx each time. It is mind boggling how she pretty much forced me to fill it. I will definitely start my own investigation of the prescriber.
 
First things first.
Your PIC cannot force you to fill a script. Did she put a gun to your head? I'm thinking, no. What if she demanded a million dollars from you, would you give it to her? I doubt it. Although reading your last response, I'm not sure. Not much PIC mind control going on here young Jedi, just your inexperience. You realize you're dispensing dangerous drugs to patients? I hope you do.

So did you also get a private investigator license when you graduated pharmacy school? The things these new schools are enticing students with, never ceases to amaze me. I'm guessing no. So when you "investigate" the prescriber, remember if your chain promises scripts to be filled in 15 minutes, that leaves roughly less than 5 minutes for you to play detective.
I'm guessing all the other patients, legally acquiring medications, won't mind waiting while your mental faculties are congested with patients trying to circumvent the law to feed their addictions. Does that seem fair? Of course not.
Learn to make confident decisions and stand by them. Consistency in your actions will better protect you from making mistakes.
 
Not that I'm saying anything that hasn't already been said, but if the patient threatens to report me to the state board for not filling a C2 opiate written out of state, I will happily let them. I, and probably every corporation in America, would love to have written documentation from a state board saying that we are to fill all out of state prescriptions for oxycodone regardless of if we think it to be questionable. Of course, they're never going to step in and do that, so that's the patient stepping in and posturing.

Your PIC can't make you do anything. Tell the patient to come back when they are in. My staff pharm and I disagree on a number of scripts, so the patients that I fill and they won't fill know to call and find my schedule in advance so they don't have any problems getting their meds. If this is such an issue, your PIC should have a chat with the patient.
 
No one can compel you to fill a script. They can report you to anyone they want. Next time he threatens to report you, give him the phone number of the corporate office or whatever line is appropriate to make complaints. Do not let let him pressure you into filling a prescription you don't want to.
 
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