Undergraduate and Have a Couple Questions

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[Cornfed101]

I think 2 is the best, but this greatly depends on what you want to do. I can see it being difficult to get meaningful clinical experience until you are 18 just because a lot of hospitals have rules about allowing people to volunteer/work until they are college aged (viewed as 18). #2 just gives you a little more time, which is the resource you have the most of right now. Don’t rush. I wouldn’t recommend the 3 year plan. I just turned 30 and will be matriculating this summer, and I don’t feel that old. You have lots of life left to work.

 

[LizzyM]

Slow down. Plan on the 2 year masters and a gap year during which you'll be applying and working. During your masters and/or during your gap year you should live away from your parents.

I have interviewed very young applicants and life experience is often the point that is lacking. Give yourself some time to gather life experiences including dealing with people who are grief-stricken, angry,or merely disgruntled. Medicine requires scientific knowledge but also some emotional intelligence and the ability to work with strangers who are not at their best.

 

[KnightDoc]

Hi guys, I have been learning more about the pre-med process and have a couple questions regarding the way I'd like to complete this path.

So to give a bit of background, I am currently a 16 yr old undergraduate freshman majoring in neuroscience at a T20 university in the US. My cGPA is 4.0 and sGPA is 4.0 after 2 full-time semesters (6 credits during short-summer semester and 15 credits during fall semester). My demographics(if this is relevant this early on) is white/middle eastern male.

Because I am so young, the problem of being seen as immature or too young on a traditional path for medical schools arises and I have a couple different tracks to medical school (and misc questions) that I was hoping I could get feedback on. I'll start by giving the different tracks to medical schools available to me that offer different benefits and disadvantages. To preface, these tracks would be aiming at mid-tier to high-tier med schools although there are exceptions.

Track 1: So I could first go through the traditional pathway of 4 yrs ug majoring in neuroscience, which would put me at age 19 when applying and 20 when hearing back/attending from medical schools. This track would allow me to take 13-14 credits per semester which is more than manageable. I would also have a lot of time to do clinical/ non-clinical and all the likes. The main disadvantage is that most med schools have an age range of 21-31 and an average of 23, which would put me way under. I could also be able to fit in a research program during a summer (which I think is good for getting a letter of rec and possibly a lucky publication but was hoping this could be confirmed.

Track 2: I could go through with that same traditional pathway of 4 yrs ug but additionally add one year for an MS in neuroscience or something related. Advantages include that I would be able to push my age back 1 year (20 applying 21 hearing back) and would also be able to foster more research experience/ clinical non-clinical. I would also have a chance to attend a higher tier university if GPA and other experiences stay on track (which from reading these forums, I think would give me a foot in the door at that university and more opportunity for meaningful rec letters). Disadvantages include that I would have to wait another year.
I could also be able to fit in a research program during a summer.

Track 3: I could do 4 yrs ug and 2 years MS, which is pretty similar to Track 2 except I would have to wait 2 years rather than 1 until applying. Would put me at the average age range.
I could also be able to fit in a research program during a summer.

Track 4: I could do 3 yrs ug and 0 years MS, which would put me at 18 when applying and 19 when attending. I would have to take 16-17 creds per semester. To start with the disadvantages, I would have a hell second year with 17 creds first semester (Orgo 1 and Physics together) and 17 second semester (Orgo 2, synth lab, another Physics). Additionally, I would have really little time to pursue much during the school year outside of the current research I am doing, which would mean I would be doing a majority of my clinical/non-clinical during the summer while also probably doing research. I probably would not be able to do any special research programs either. Additionally, this track would make me look both like a loof and a complete robot to med schools which is super negative. I do realize that this track would totally eliminate chances at T20 med schools and minimize chances at T20-T50. However, the main benefit is that I know that if I just check the boxes for clinical/ non-clinical and research, and focus most of my time on GPA and MCAT, I would have a decent shot in getting into some sort of med school in the US.

Track 5: Last track, I promise 🙂. So for this path, I would do 3 years ug in the same fashion as above, but I would also slap on 1-2 years MS on top (would 1 or 2 be more sufficient here, if at all) to highly improve my clinical/non-clinical + research experiences. Same benefits as the previous tracks that had MS except for the fact that my ug would have been a bit rushed and overly focused on GPA/MCAT. This track feels the most flimsy because it seems like I am standing in the middle of 2 opposite rounds here, the super fast track and the slow track, and trying to merge them.


All in all, my brain is super cluttered with these different tracks and I am pretty new to all this. Any feedback/help would be super appreciated.

Happy holidays!

Given that you are clearly aware of the disadvantage you are already at by being so young, why do you have any tracks that involve accelerating your progress, especially given that they would involve a hell second year? Is this part a troll, or did you just throw them in to see if we would read to the end? 🙂

 

[Damson]

Given that you are clearly aware of the disadvantage you are already at by being so young, why do you have any tracks that involve accelerating your progress, especially given that they would involve a hell second year? Is this part a troll, or did you just throw them in to see if we would read to the end? 🙂

I don't really get the ire in your post. Nothing wrong with applying early and getting into professional school earlier if one is qualified. My buddy is a 20 year old junior who got numerous interviews at MD schools. Came in with AP credits to clear general bio and chem; did orgo fresh sem 1, orgo 2 phys 1 fresh sem 2, phys 2 biochem soph sem 1, studied for MCAT winter break, took it in January and earned 51x. Sent his app in right after soph year ended in May, and got interviewed. He took his education very seriously from the start, he knew undergrad gpa isn't a game - the adcoms apparently saw this.

To @Wonderchild. Keep up your GPA streak. Remember that undergrad is not a joke. It's the real deal. It's not for partying or fortnite or TV show marathons. Maintain a serious attitude from the start like you are now, and don't let anything else other than ECs, occasional socials and relax, and maintaining relationship with professor, sidetrack you, as you move into fresh sem 2 and beyond. Don't let the toxicity on SDN scare you off, that's just how it is sometimes. Take everyone's posts with a grain of salt, but read them closely and make the vast wisdom you can find on here your own. You can get in to medical school at 19/20 years old if you really want to; don't let the average med school matriculant stats scare you into conforming to the norm. You determine whether or not you're mature enough. If the european and balkan secondary school graduates can get into med/dental school at 18, who cares most applicants over in the states are doing? You do you, and you got this.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

I am not an adcom, but my 2 cents as a parent of slightly younger current T20 undergrad. It all comes down to how mature you think you are or how you sound to adcoms at the time of interviews. If you are confident then track 1 is not bad. Doing 15 hrs per semester gives you enough time for ECs needed for medical schools. You also have summers to get lot of volunteer hrs. I know gap years is being advocated now a days but not every one needs to take them.

There are 20+ medical schools with BSMD programs and lot of them have accelerated programs so few 20 year olds matriculate to medical school. May be you can target those.

 

[caterwaiter]

You can get in to medical school at 19/20 years old if you really want to; don't let the average med school matriculant stats scare you into conforming to the norm. You determine whether or not you're mature enough.

I'm sure the OP knows that they have the academic capabilities required to get into medical school on an accelerated timeline, but I don't think the question is unwarranted. There are SO many things to see, people to meet, experiences to have and to share with others....all of which could make OP both a *more* qualified applicant and (more importantly) a more empathetic and compassionate physician. Academia is a bubble, and it may be wise to venture outside of it for awhile.

 

[Damson]

I'm sure the OP knows that they have the academic capabilities required to get into medical school on an accelerated timeline, but I don't think the question is unwarranted. There are SO many things to see, people to meet, experiences to have and to share with others....all of which could make OP both a *more* qualified applicant and (more importantly) a more empathetic and compassionate physician. Academia is a bubble, and it may be wise to venture outside of it for awhile.

OP can accumulate these necessary experiences during semesters and in between semesters, without having to spend gap years. My friend acquired an interview at UCLA among others by doing so. It depends on how the OP will manage his time.

 

[LizzyM]

My buddy is a 20 year old junior who got numerous interviews at MD schools.

But does he have an offer yet?

Regarding the comment about schools that start right out of HS. Keep in mind that those schools are six or seven years so those admitted to medical school at 18 are really starting medical school at 21 after several years of what we would consider pre-med curriculum. In this country, the 7 year BS/MD medical students are often sorely lacking in maturity compared with traditional (and non-traditional) matriculants.

I'd strongly recommend living on one's own (or with non-relative roommates) and working in a lab or clinical role or being in a full-time volunteer role (e.g. City Year, Peace Corps, etc) for 1-2 years before applying if in OP's situation.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

But does he have an offer yet?

Regarding the comment about schools that start right out of HS. Keep in mind that those schools are six or seven years so those admitted to medical school at 18 are really starting medical school at 21 after several years of what we would consider pre-med curriculum. In this country, the 7 year BS/MD medical students are often sorely lacking in maturity compared with traditional (and non-traditional) matriculants.

I'd strongly recommend living on one's own (or with non-relative roommates) and working in a lab or clinical role or being in a full-time volunteer role (e.g. City Year, Peace Corps, etc) for 1-2 years before applying if in OP's situation.

Is OP living at home and commuting to school?

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

The BS/MD students have the highest rate of attrition from medical school itself at 4.8% where as the overall rate is 3.3%
https://www.aamc.org/system/files/r...tesandattritionratesofu.s.medicalstudents.pdf
From 1993-1994 through 2012-2013, more medical students left medical school fornonacademic than foracademic reasons, according to data reported by medical school registrars in the AAMC Student Records System (SRS). The total national attrition rate remained relatively stable at an average of 3.3% over those 20 years. Additionally, attrition rates appeared to vary by type of degree program. For academic years 2003-2004 through 2012-2013 combined, students in MD-MBA combined degree programs had the lowest overall attrition rate (0.8%), and students in combined bachelor’s-MD programs had the highest overall attrition rate (4.8%).

There could be two reasons for this.
1. They decided medicine is not for them late due to lack of strong experiences during UG (given that they are accelerated programs they tend to spend less time on ECs)
2. only 5% of matriculated students are from BSMD, so smaller dataset.

 

[KnightDoc]

There could be two reasons for this.
1. They decided medicine is not for them late due to lack of strong experiences during UG (given that they are accelerated programs they tend to spend less time on ECs)
2. only 5% of matriculated students are from BSMD, so smaller dataset.

....or, they dropped out because they made a commitment at a very young age before they had an opportunity to think for themselves and understand what they are getting into. Lack of adequate ECs is certainly part of this, but it is mostly immaturity, and undue parental pressure, which could equally apply to any 17, 18, 19, or 20 year old.

Smaller data set is BS, because it's still 1,000 students per year, and it's consistent across years, so it's actually a pretty robust, consistent subset of the data.
BS/MDs are selected in HS, and it stands to reason they will drop out at a statistically higher rate than people who have had more time to season and gather experiences, and be subject to the relatively greater scrutiny of the regular admission process. There is a reason more schools don't offer them, and this is it!!!

 

[ciestar]

Where is the track that you just take four years to graduate undergrad and take a gap year or two doing something non-academic? That is my vote.

 

[tessellations]

Where is the track that you just take four years to graduate undergrad and take a gap year or two doing something non-academic? That is my vote.

Was just about to post the same thing. Unless OP has an absolutely burning need to get a masters degree, I would personally save the money and work for two years after college in a healthcare or research related job. I think this would allow them to get some valuable life experience and medical school ECs, as well as make some money instead of pouring money into another degree.

 

[Damson]

Depends on the OP's individual circumstance. If he's qualified to get in right after 3~4 years, and his family is willing to fully fund his medical education, I say go for it.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

....or, they dropped out because they made a commitment at a very young age before they had an opportunity to think for themselves and understand what they are getting into. Lack of adequate ECs is certainly part of this, but it is mostly immaturity, and undue parental pressure, which could equally apply to any 17, 18, 19, or 20 year old.

Smaller data set is BS, because it's still 1,000 students per year, and it's consistent across years, so it's actually a pretty robust, consistent subset of the data.
BS/MDs are selected in HS, and it stands to reason they will drop out at a statistically higher rate than people who have had more time to season and gather experiences, and be subject to the relatively greater scrutiny of the regular admission process. There is a reason more schools don't offer them, and this is it!!!

I know you are big on undue parental pressure 🙂 However, I do agree with you on that for BSMD programs. So many people told me that we are making a mistaking by not pressuring our son to accept a good BSMD program.

However difference of 1.5% is too small given the data size variation, but even if ignore that it appears undue parental pressure is much less than you advocate for 😎

 

[KnightDoc]

I know you are big on undue parental pressure 🙂 However, I do agree with you on that for BSMD programs. So many people told me that we are making a mistaking by not pressuring our son to accept a good BSMD program.

However difference of 1.5% is too small given the data size variation, but even if ignore that it appears undue parental pressure is much less than you advocate for 😎

Except it's not a difference of 1.5%; it's a difference of 50%! -- basic math, the difference between 3.0 and 4.5 is 1.5, or 50%!!!!!!!! Good thing you don't have to worry about standardized tests anymore!! 🙂

The difference between 30 and 45 students out of 1,000 dropping out, every year over 20 years, is HUGE for the schools, and is not too small to be ignored if it can be easily avoided, which is why gap years are such a thing and why BS/MD is limited to 5% rather than 50% of a class!!!!

I don't know if it's undue parental pressure or just basic immaturity (to an extent, they are one and the same), but a 50% difference in attrition rates is very significant, no matter how you choose to rationalize it. Why do you think a sample size of 1,000 per year out of 20,000 per year, for 20 years, is small???? It's significant and consistent.

Looked at another way, it's 300 less doctors in the country than there would have been without BS/MD programs over the past 20 years. Maybe nothing in your circle, but a big deal anywhere in the country with an unfilled MD position!! That's 3 incoming classes at NYU, and it's forever, since you can never go back in time and reclaim that lost seat!! 🙂

 

[Damson]

I started working in a lab 1.5 years ago and already joined a second one this past September and really am not too dependent on my parents. At the most, I ask them for a ride to my lab or to college but that is really it. As far as maturity goes, I feel at the very least on par with other freshman and sophomore students - the only issue for medical schools being the number on my birth certificate.

However, I do understand your earlier point about gaining other, more emotional experiences during this time. Because of that, I am swaying towards doing a 3 years ug plan and 2 years MS but taking a light load during 2 summers, which would still leave me at 14-15 credits per fall and spring semester.

A good research masters like the one at UMiami might suit you. Research broadly

 

[KnightDoc]

I did get accepted into a BSMD program at age 15. I chose not to attend for 2 reasons.

1. I did not want to cap myself at a T80 US medical school when I felt that after 3-4 years of ug alone, I could reapply and get into that same medical school. Their average MCAT is 512 and average gpa is 3.7. I am also in-state for them.

2. The city the medical school was located in was really empty, lacking a pool (I am a competitive simmer) and really only having social things to do at parties or restaurants. As a 15 year old, it made more sense to go to the T20 university because it is located in a bigger city and has a lot of fun, social activities that I could use to develop myself further. I really did not want all my main experiences in life ( from age 15-22) to come from 1 really small, capped city. I felt that I could achieve higher by attending the T20 and treat the med school I was accepted into as a sort of "safety".

What med school do you think you have as a "safety"? You don't have the BS/MD med school anymore! Those programs exists so those schools can get their hooks into kids like you early. You turned them down.

Take a look at their regular admission IS admit rates. Those are your chances. If you are as good as you claim to be, you have a better chance now to get a yield protection R than an A from whatever school you are talking about. 🙂

The mere fact that you would post this shows you are not ready. It's not fatal, and you still have time, but there are a million little things you can say or do that an adcom will find immature when the time comes, notwithstanding the encouragement you are receiving from some here. Just ask them if they have first hand experience guiding a 19 or 20 year old into a med school acceptance.

There is a reason only around 1/3 of each school's entering class comes right from UG, and that includes the 5% who are BS/MD. It is a long shot that a 19-20 year old not coming from a BS/MD program would be among them, but, yes, anything is possible. Good luck!!! 🙂

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

[/QUOTE]

The mere fact that you would post this shows you are not ready

That seems to be harsh on OP. Do you have any experience with 19 or 20 yr olds failing in large scale in med school? 🙂 I know few 20 years olds who went to medical schools and successful.

 

[caterwaiter]

I think it should be noted that one's self-judged sense of maturity and "life experience" are not the same thing. As the wise LizzyM has already said, emotional intelligence and the ability to work with strangers (not peers) different than yourself are highly regarded.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

I think it should be noted that one's self-judged sense of maturity and "life experience" are not the same thing. As the wise LizzyM has already said, emotional intelligence and the ability to work with strangers (not peers) different than yourself are highly regarded.

It's also hard for strangers on SDN to assess OP's maturity and advise whether they need gap years or not 🙂

 

[KnightDoc]

That seems to be harsh on OP. Do you have any experience with 19 or 20 yr olds failing in large scale in med school? 🙂 I know few 20 years olds who went to medical schools and successful.

No, but I know for a fact that a med school associated with a BS/MD program turned down by an applicant does not become "sort of a safety school" three or four years later. Thinking otherwise is a sign of immaturity. Don't take my word for it -- ask any of the adcoms here.

 

[Damson]

No, but I know for a fact that a med school associated with a BS/MD program turned down by an applicant does not become "sort of a safety school" three or four years later. Thinking otherwise is a sign of immaturity. Don't take my word for it -- ask any of the adcoms here.

You're talking about OP's remark "I felt that I could achieve higher by attending the T20 and treat the med school I was accepted into as a sort of "safety"."

I don't think the OP meant that he thinks he's still accepted to the med school after turning down the combined BSMD program. But even if that's what he meant, it still isn't a "sign of immaturity", it just means he's misinformed.

The OP believes that his GPA and MCAT outcome will set him firmly in the range of top tier MD schools, and that the school he was originally accepted to in the BSMD will be a safety anyway. He's misinformed - stellar stats do not guarantee acceptance. But he seems to know what he's supposed to do, covering himself with plenty of ECs and research and maintaining a ~4.0. He's got this.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

No, but I know for a fact that a med school associated with a BS/MD program turned down by an applicant does not become "sort of a safety school" three or four years later. Thinking otherwise is a sign of immaturity. Don't take my word for it -- ask any of the adcoms here.

It's instate and if he has stats above the schools average and has other required ECs, what's wrong with him treating that as a safety school when he is applying? I don't think he thinks he can get in based on his BSMD outcome only.

 

[ciestar]

It's instate and if he has stats above the schools average and has other required ECs, what's wrong with him treating that as a safety school when he is applying? I don't think he thinks he can get in based on his BSMD outcome only.

Because there is no such thing as a “safety” med school. Only real exception being if you live in a lucky state.

 

[KnightDoc]

It's instate and if he has stats above the schools average and has other required ECs, what's wrong with him treating that as a safety school when he is applying? I don't think he thinks he can get in based on his BSMD outcome only.

What's wrong with it is the ton of posts here every year from candidates who simply cannot believe they didn't receive an II or an A at this school or that based on their awesome application.

I know you know that yield protection is a real thing. In fact, if it were me, not only would I not treat my IS school that I turned down as a BS/MD candidate as a "safety," I wouldn't even waste the time and money applying because I'd be that afraid of receiving a R after turning down an A previously, but that's just me!

I not only don't think it's a safety based on the BS/MD application, I think it's more likely than not a R because he previously turned down an acceptance there. They would know they are his "safety" and would treat his application accordingly.

Bottom line - I don't think you get to go home again. I think it's pretty universally accepted that you don't get accepted to any school where you previously turned down an A. I don't think there is a BS/MD exception to this rule. Maybe the adcoms can correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

One of my classmates was an MIT grad. Read novels in anatomy and bio chem class. Dropped out after first semester with all A's, said med school was boring. Some really bright people just dont find it challenging enough.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

What's wrong with it is the ton of posts here every year from candidates who simply cannot believe they didn't receive an II or an A at this school or that based on their awesome application.

I know you know that yield protection is a real thing. In fact, if it were me, not only would I not treat my IS school that I turned down as a BS/MD candidate as a "safety," I wouldn't even waste the time and money applying because I'd be that afraid of receiving a R after turning down an A previously, but that's just me!

I not only don't think it's a safety based on the BS/MD application, I think it's more likely than not a R because he previously turned down an acceptance there. They would know they are his "safety" and would treat his application accordingly.

Bottom line - I don't think you get to go home again. I think it's pretty universally accepted that you don't get accepted to any school where you previously turned down an A. I don't think there is a BS/MD exception to this rule. Maybe the adcoms can correct me if I'm wrong.

I seriously doubt they hold BS/MD rejection as reason to reject traditional route if explained in the secondaries (especially for in-state).

 

[KnightDoc]

I seriously doubt they hold BS/MD rejection as reason to reject traditional route if explained in the secondaries (especially for in-state).

Do you honestly think any school wants to be someone's safety? If not, what could someone who previously turned down an acceptance and now has stellar stats possibly say by way of explanation (especially for IS), since the goal is, was, and always has been a better school anyway?

Dear Adcom: I turned down your guarantee because I thrive on making things difficult for myself (plus, I REALLY needed the prestige of a T20 UG), but now I don't care about prestige for med school (after all, everyone knows UG prestige is the only prestige that really matters), but care about the lower IS tuition that I didn't care about when I went to the trouble of applying previously, and I really need you to give me another chance. Plus, I LOVE your mission (whatever it happens to be).

I'd subject the applicant to a lie detector test and then report him to AMCAS after he failed it. 🙂

All kidding aside, I know your kid is going to do great (based on where he is, how he's doing, and the impressive level of success he's achieved to date), and that you won't care about the money you spend on applications, but mark my words -- you are going to be shocked when you see the great schools he gets into while being rejected by the schools attached to BS/MD programs he previously turned down. You're not going to understand it, and will probably attribute it to the incomprehensible randomness of the process, but you'll be wrong. You'll then have a little more wisdom to share with the gang on CC.

If you've been paying attention here, you'll realize that the schools really don't care about any of us (or our kids). They care about filling their classes with the best possible applicants. They have an avalanche of applications to sift through, and a limited amount of time and resources to do so. They are going to be loathe to waste a precious interview spot on a candidate who previously successfully navigated the gauntlet of the BS/MD process, only to turn them down. Fool them once, shame on you...

 

[Damson]

Do you honestly think any school wants to be someone's safety? If not, what could someone who previously turned down an acceptance and now has stellar stats possibly say by way of explanation (especially for IS), since the goal is, was, and always has been a better school anyway?

Dear Adcom: I turned down your guarantee because I thrive on making things difficult for myself (plus, I REALLY needed the prestige of a T20 UG), but now I don't care about prestige for med school (after all, everyone knows UG prestige is the only prestige that really matters), but care about the lower IS tuition that I didn't care about when I went to the trouble of applying previously, and I really need you to give me another chance. Plus, I LOVE your mission (whatever it happens to be).

I'd subject the applicant to a lie detector test and then report him to AMCAS after he failed it. 🙂

All kidding aside, I know your kid is going to do great (based on where he is, how he's doing, and the impressive level of success he's achieved to date), and that you won't care about the money you spend on applications, but mark my words -- you are going to be shocked when you see the great schools he gets into while being rejected by the schools attached to BS/MD programs he previously turned down. You're not going to understand it, and will probably attribute it to the incomprehensible randomness of the process, but you'll be wrong. You'll then have a little more wisdom to share with the gang on CC.

If you've been paying attention here, you'll realize that the schools really don't care about any of us (or our kids). They care about filling their classes with the best possible applicants. They have an avalanche of applications to sift through, and a limited amount of time and resources to do so. They are going to be loathe to waste a precious interview spot on a candidate who previously successfully navigated the gauntlet of the BS/MD process, only to turn them down. Fool them once, shame on you...

I received an interview this cycle from the same DO school I turned down after being accepted to its BS-DO program. They are just not the same thing. You aren’t “A” to the medical school until you send in the AMCAS/AACOMAS application with all of the BSDO requirements completed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[KnightDoc]

I received an interview this cycle from the same DO school I turned down after being accepted to its BS-DO program. They are just not the same thing. You aren’t “A” to the medical school until you send in the AMCAS/AACOMAS application with all of the BSDO requirements completed.


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I really haven't paid too much attention to DO, so I'm not sure if it's different, but congratulations!!!! I seriously doubt AMCAS application is the standard, though, and I'm sure the med school has records of who was accepted BS/MD and chose not to attend.

Also, n=1. Did you have any other combined program acceptances? If so, how are those applications going?

 

[caterwaiter]

It's also hard for strangers on SDN to assess OP's maturity and advise whether they need gap years or not 🙂

OP quite literally asked for advice from strangers on the internet 🙂 And they've gotten a lot of it. Up to them now to choose the path that feels right for them.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Do you honestly think any school wants to be someone's safety? If not, what could someone who previously turned down an acceptance and now has stellar stats possibly say by way of explanation (especially for IS), since the goal is, was, and always has been a better school anyway?

Dear Adcom: I turned down your guarantee because I thrive on making things difficult for myself (plus, I REALLY needed the prestige of a T20 UG), but now I don't care about prestige for med school (after all, everyone knows UG prestige is the only prestige that really matters), but care about the lower IS tuition that I didn't care about when I went to the trouble of applying previously, and I really need you to give me another chance. Plus, I LOVE your mission (whatever it happens to be).

I'd subject the applicant to a lie detector test and then report him to AMCAS after he failed it. 🙂

All kidding aside, I know your kid is going to do great (based on where he is, how he's doing, and the impressive level of success he's achieved to date), and that you won't care about the money you spend on applications, but mark my words -- you are going to be shocked when you see the great schools he gets into while being rejected by the schools attached to BS/MD programs he previously turned down. You're not going to understand it, and will probably attribute it to the incomprehensible randomness of the process, but you'll be wrong. You'll then have a little more wisdom to share with the gang on CC.

If you've been paying attention here, you'll realize that the schools really don't care about any of us (or our kids). They care about filling their classes with the best possible applicants. They have an avalanche of applications to sift through, and a limited amount of time and resources to do so. They are going to be loathe to waste a precious interview spot on a candidate who previously successfully navigated the gauntlet of the BS/MD process, only to turn them down. Fool them once, shame on you...

As others said there is no safety concept for medical schools and most people apply to their instate schools (regardless of stats) given the cost difference and other factors.

I do fully understand the randomness of the whole application process and intend to advise my son to apply broadly including one of the school he rejected BSMD admission. He will explain that he realized that he didn't want go thru accelerated program given his age and will seriously consider going to that school given admission. Let's see how the outcome will be next year 🙂

 

[Damson]

As others said there is no safety concept for medical schools and most people apply to their instate schools (regardless of stats) given the cost difference and other factors.

I do fully understand the randomness of the whole application process and intend to advise my son to apply broadly including one of the school he rejected BSMD admission. He will explain that he realized that he didn't want go thru accelerated program given his age and will seriously consider going to that school given admission. Let's see how the outcome will be next year 🙂

I want a son too

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

I really haven't paid too much attention to DO, so I'm not sure if it's different, but congratulations!!!! I seriously doubt AMCAS application is the standard, though, and I'm sure the med school has records of who was accepted BS/MD and chose not to attend.

Also, n=1. Did you have any other combined program acceptances? If so, how are those applications going?

I seriously doubt they keep track of BS/MD rejections and then check during traditional medical school cycle. Very few who goes thru BSMD process reject acceptances. Too much pressure to accept 🙂

 

[KnightDoc]

I seriously doubt they keep track of BS/MD rejections and then check during traditional medical school cycle. Very few who goes thru BSMD process reject acceptances. Too much pressure to accept 🙂

I think you are 1,000% wrong. As you said, there are relatively few people to keep track of, they do it anyway for regular admission, and they do care about yield. I can't guarantee that they'll never accept anyone regular who turned down a BS/MD offer, but I promise you they know who these people are.

Just to make sure we are talking about the same thing, I don't think the school rejecting the candidate for BS/MD admission makes a difference in a later regular decision application, but when they offer an acceptance BS/MD and that offer is turned down (I wouldn't use the term "rejected" to avoid confusion), that candidate has "Yield Protection" in bright neon lights all over the application, and it is very much in the school's interest to know who those people are.

You don't have to take my word for it. Maybe some of the adcoms will chime in. If not, you'll see for yourself next year. I'm not wishing it on your son. I'm just telling you that any school that offered your son a precious BS/MD acceptance and had it turned down is going to be wary about possibly wasting an interview slot on him the second time around when they have thousands of applicants (and undoubtedly at least hundreds who look just like him) who haven't already turned them down for a T20 offer in the past.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

I think you are 1,000% wrong. As you said, there are relatively few people to keep track of, they do it anyway for regular admission, and they do care about yield. I can't guarantee that they'll never accept anyone regular who turned down a BS/MD offer, but I promise you they know who these people are.

Just to make sure we are talking about the same thing, I don't think the school rejecting the candidate for BS/MD admission makes a difference in a later regular decision application, but when they offer an acceptance BS/MD and that offer is turned down (I wouldn't use the term "rejected" to avoid confusion), that candidate has "Yield Protection" in bright neon lights all over the application, and it is very much in the school's interest to know who those people are.

You don't have to take my word for it. Maybe some of the adcoms will chime in. If not, you'll see for yourself next year. I'm not wishing it on your son. I'm just telling you that any school that offered your son a precious BS/MD acceptance and had it turned down is going to be wary about possibly wasting an interview slot on him the second time around when they have thousands of applicants (and undoubtedly at least hundreds who look just like him) who haven't already turned them down for a T20 offer in the past.

OK, with your advise I will ask him not to apply to same school. Let's get back to OP 🙂

 

[KnightDoc]

OK, with your advise I will ask him not to apply to same school. Let's get back to OP 🙂

I thought we were all settled on OP and agreed that we would meet back here in two years to advise him on his reapplication! 🙂