Unhappy physicians

[gumbyj]

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I have been looking through tons of threads on here lately trying to find out what I can expect from medical school and residency. I see these threads about the horrible divorces and the toll medicine takes on your family. On the whole the attendings, residents and medical students here seem to be pretty unhappy...

Is happiness and a decent work-life balance (50-60hours/week) even possible in medicine?

The fields I am interested in [right now - I know this will change] are radiology, PM&R and psych (very different I know).

 

[thlaxer]

I have been looking through tons of threads on here lately trying to find out what I can expect from medical school and residency. I see these threads about the horrible divorces and the toll medicine takes on your family. On the whole the attendings, residents and medical students here seem to be pretty unhappy...

Is happiness and a decent work-life balance (50-60hours/week) even possible in medicine?

The fields I am interested in [right now - I know this will change] are radiology, PM&R and psych (very different I know).

The physicians I've talked to were all pretty happy. Sure they wish they could spend more time with their families, but overall they were all very encouraging and supportive when they learned I was interested in pursuing medicine. Most of them are in academic medicine though, so maybe that makes a difference? I was a bit surprised when I saw all the negativity on here. There's a lot of doom and gloom.

 

[DrMidlife]

radiology, PM&R and psych

Those are good choices for having good life balance.

Denial and ignorance cause a lot of problems, from what I see. Don't tell your significant other that med school and residency won't be a problem - you don't know that. It's hard to manage, so don't pretend it won't be out of fear you'll piss off your SO.

Also, among my 6 friends (of both sexes) over 40 who got unceremoniously dumped by their spouses this year, after 15-30 years of marriage (6. friends. OMG.), nobody was a doctor.

Best of luck to you.

 

[gumbyj]

Those are good choices for having good life balance.

Denial and ignorance cause a lot of problems, from what I see. Don't tell your significant other that med school and residency won't be a problem - you don't know that. It's hard to manage, so don't pretend it won't be out of fear you'll piss off your SO.

Also, among my 6 friends (of both sexes) over 40 who got unceremoniously dumped by their spouses this year, after 15-30 years of marriage (6. friends. OMG.), nobody was a doctor.

Best of luck to you.

Thanks a lot for the advice. I am extremely realistic about what medicine will entail. I anticipate not having very much time to see each-other in M3 and M4 as well as residency.

Although, I will say that we are both working full-time and in school now. I have class half the nights of the week and he has class half the nights of the week and he works a very strange shift, so as it is we see each-other maybe 1-2 hours/day (we live together). He also has class all day on Saturdays. Honestly, I am thinking that medical schools (with the exception of 3rd year maybe) won't be super different from where we are at now.

Can anyone comment on what the medical school/residency experience is like for women who have a spouse who isn't in medicine?

 

[artsydoc]

My husband is not in medicine. I've only completed my M1 year but I have to say so far I've had very little time to be with him. If you have 2 hours a day to spend with your significant other in any year of medical school you may be very lucky, or very smart! I think we were feeling the strain by the end of the year, and that helped inform my decision to not do much over the summer other than shadow a few Drs. and spend time with him, and make sure we went on lots of dates, did some traveling together and that I cooked his favorite meals, ran the household errands, basically did more than an even share of all the things that fell to him during the year. The more supportive and excited your spouse is about your future career the better off you'll be. There were a few times during the year when I was ready to go to the Dean's office and say I'm through, but he was the one who convinced me to stay. (which I'm glad of!) Schedule time for each other just as you schedule studying and in so far as it's possible make sure he really can handle the fact that there will be (more than a few) evenings where all you'll have time to do with him is scarf down some leftover Chinese and give him a kiss before you need to head back to the books. It should actually help that he has a demanding schedule himself. The couples who seem to have it the hardest on the non medical side are the ones whose SO's followed them to school but didn't have friends or employment of their own once they got there. The school schedule might make a difference as well. My school has exams every two weeks, which demands always being on top of things, maybe a block schedule could be more forgiving. Good luck, one year in so far, and going strong in school and on the relationship front, so I'm optimistic it can be done!

 

[Abider]

Thanks a lot for the advice. I am extremely realistic about what medicine will entail. I anticipate not having very much time to see each-other in M3 and M4 as well as residency.

Although, I will say that we are both working full-time and in school now. I have class half the nights of the week and he has class half the nights of the week and he works a very strange shift, so as it is we see each-other maybe 1-2 hours/day (we live together). He also has class all day on Saturdays. Honestly, I am thinking that medical schools (with the exception of 3rd year maybe) won't be super different from where we are at now.

Can anyone comment on what the medical school/residency experience is like for women who have a spouse who isn't in medicine?

You might try a search. Many of our illustrious ladies of medicine have commented on this issue. It's a good question to ask.

Regarding overall happiness: You've got a sampling problem. Too many physicians in training and not enough physicians in practice posting on sdn. The more accurate subsets for specialty specific satisfaction would be the resident forums where residents and attendings are in conversation about the nature of practice in each field. Because it is really field-specific. The medical career advising sites publish well updated and broad data along these lines.

But there' a lot of untidiness in these types of data. Like, are more people in one field unsatisfied or does the culture of that field and it's entry requirements select for certain types of perpetually dissatisfied people. These types of questions can never be answered. We have only broad sweeping associative data sets. But the fit for a certain field and one's over all contentment is very individual--pertaining to one's self and the fit for that specialty including it's demands and one's life goals.

If you want to give significant time to your family there are obvious differences in fields that you should look at. Hours and training and hours in practice as well as the ability to construct a practice that will fit your needs--averages are not universally useful in this context and access to this type of intel takes culling a lot of individual cases to arrive at a guess for your own situation.

This is perhaps the most powerful use of sdn and trumps all of it's short-comings--the ability to sift through targeted searches of individual cases en mass on short order.

 

[Abider]

Additionally one of the confounders for the answers you seek here is the that you're getting time slices that are very state of mind dependent.

For example, if I had journaled all my thoughts about M-1--god what a horrible thought--you would conclude that either I'd lost it or that medical school was atrocious. So M-1 was appallingly boring for me...but maybe you'd like it. There are people who love nothing more that studying for tests all day, that hate clinical settings. I'm fairly certain that I'm the opposite breed, and so on.

So there's lot's of problems with deriving your potential satisfaction in medicine from reading here.

One of the benefits of extensive clinical experience for me was that despite thinking M-1 was horrible I knew that not only was it temporary but that it lacked in any semblance to my future career.

You should work as much as you can to gain glimpses of actual medical practice. More than glimpses if you can swing it.

 

[QofQuimica]

I have been looking through tons of threads on here lately trying to find out what I can expect from medical school and residency. I see these threads about the horrible divorces and the toll medicine takes on your family. On the whole the attendings, residents and medical students here seem to be pretty unhappy...

Medicine is like everything: some parts suck, some don't. Some people like it, some don't. As others have pointed out, you tend to get more gripers than cheerleaders posting on a message board. Who wants to write a tome about how great their life is? When you're happy, you're out there living your life, not posting about it on SDN. When you're not happy, you vent. You don't want to vent IRL, so you come on SDN. It's not a coincidence that the "crappy" thread has twice as many posts as the "happy" thread.

Is happiness and a decent work-life balance (50-60hours/week) even possible in medicine?

Not during residency for the most part. A 50-60 hour/week rotation feels like a freaking vacation to your average resident. During most of med school and as an attending in many specialties, yes, it's very possible.

The fields I am interested in [right now - I know this will change] are radiology, PM&R and psych (very different I know).

All of which would allow you to work 50-60 hours/week as an attending. You just better hope you don't fall in love with surgery. 😉

 

[gumbyj]

All of which would allow you to work 50-60 hours/week as an attending. You just better hope you don't fall in love with surgery. 😉

Ha, it is funny you should mention that - I actually have quite the obsession with surgery/neurosurgery - I love everything about it EXCEPT the lifestyle. And we all know what the lifestyle in surgery and surgical sub-specialties will be... I don't want to make that kind of sacrifice in my personal life.

I wonder how many people come across that conundrum in medical school - love a specialty, but hate the lifestyle? And in the end, which do you chose.

 

[HoltMD]

Unhappy people will always be unhappy, even if they become a surgeon. 😀

 

[didanawisgi]

Medicine is like everything: some parts suck, some don't. Some people like it, some don't. As others have pointed out, you tend to get more gripers than cheerleaders posting on a message board. Who wants to write a tome about how great their life is? When you're happy, you're out there living your life, not posting about it on SDN. When you're not happy, you vent. You don't want to vent IRL, so you come on SDN. It's not a coincidence that the "crappy" thread has twice as many posts as the "happy" thread.

That was my first thought after reading the initial post. Who would pick up the computer while watching a movie with their family to say on SDN or on their blog, "Things are good. Just thought y'all should know." As you look at all the negative comments posted by doctors, think about what percentage of practicing physicians those actually represent.

Another thing to think about - what would you do if you weren't to become a doctor? At the company I'm currently working for, I'm progressing as though medicine weren't in the picture. My stats from undergrad aren't phenomenal, so this is my very cushy safety net. I've recently been placed on somewhat of a fast-track to project management, and looking at the hours and schedule those people above me have, it looks just as bad if not worse than a doctor's. Flying here and there every other week, 12 hour days, a cell phone that doesn't have an off switch or silent button. The thing is, I wouldn't be happy unless my work environment had the stresses and pressures offered there or, where I hope to end up, in the OR. Do you think that, if you weren't a doctor, you'd be happy with sitting in a cubicle crunching numbers from 9-5 so you can fly out the door just as all the other drones stuck in rush hour did? That's certainly an easier lifestyle and one more conducive to time at home, but I know I wasn't happy there (9-5 drone stuck in a cubicle...stuck between the old guy singing to himself and the asberger's guy giving himself the ply-by-play on what link he's clicking.... *shudders*).

 

[yossarian444]

Attendings and residents (non-surgeons) I work with seem much happier than the complainers that post on SDN. Who knows, maybe it's all a show and after work everyday they go home and post how much they hate their life!

To the person above who said they anticipate not being able to see their SO much during M3/4 years: for me and most people I know it was the exact opposite. Some rotations M3 year I had all the time in the world (others, not so much), and the last half of M4 year is a joke - I hadn't had so many weeks of doing absolutely nothing since I was a teenager. M1 and M2 years...well, those just suck.

 

[NightGod]

Attendings and residents (non-surgeons) I work with seem much happier than the complainers that post on SDN. Who knows, maybe it's all a show and after work everyday they go home and post how much they hate their life!

To the person above who said they anticipate not being able to see their SO much during M3/4 years: for me and most people I know it was the exact opposite. Some rotations M3 year I had all the time in the world (others, not so much), and the last half of M4 year is a joke - I hadn't had so many weeks of doing absolutely nothing since I was a teenager. M1 and M2 years...well, those just suck.

One EM doc I talked with said on multiple occasions that MS4 was probably the best, most relaxing year of his life. Other than the stress of match at the end of it, he loved it.

 

[FiremedicMike]

I have been looking through tons of threads on here lately trying to find out what I can expect from medical school and residency. I see these threads about the horrible divorces and the toll medicine takes on your family. On the whole the attendings, residents and medical students here seem to be pretty unhappy...

Is happiness and a decent work-life balance (50-60hours/week) even possible in medicine?

The fields I am interested in [right now - I know this will change] are radiology, PM&R and psych (very different I know).

Truthfully, I think a lot of the traditional path physicians who post here feel that doctors have the patent on self sacrifice. I feel many of these people believe that they're the only ones on the planet who alter the physiology of their bodies through years of little sleep and hard work, and that combined with their student loans should somehow entitle them to be bitter and treat everyone like crap.

There are some non-trad physicians who post here who are bitter, but most of the non-trad physicians/med students/residents who post here seem to be much more balanced in their views of "how bad" it is..

I work around 80-100 hours per week currently between 2 jobs (which is down from 4 jobs that I had up until April), I miss birthdays, first and last days of school, holidays, etc. My sleep cycle is so screwed up that I'm certain I'm losing years off my life because of it. I'm probably suffering from PTSD, and I'd go be evaluated and diagnosed if I thought it really made a difference to write it on paper.

What I've found with my lifestyle and hours is that you just have to make your moments at home count. It certainly helps that I was already a firefighter when my wife and I met, and my kids have not known me as anything else. Love your children, love your wife, and make your own balance with the cards you are dealt.

 

[wholeheartedly]

I think everyone has already made good points. Another important thing to keep in mind is that a lot of how happy someone is in life is determined by some sort of internal set point.

Some people will find ways to be positive and happy and resilient despite major setbacks and challenges, and others will be miserable and unhappy regardless of the good in their life. Whether or not they're in medicine has little to do with it for some people; they'd be unhappy and bitter regardless of what they did. (and that's not to say that medicine isn't a daunting challenge)

 

[FrkyBgStok]

Many doctors haven't seen the grass on the other side. I (as well as many on this forum) have worked numerous jobs they realize that when you have a bad day, that doesn't mean the job sucks. Some jobs truly do suck, but all jobs suck at some point. Some don't realize that and they are venting from what they don't know. Couple that with the people who went into medicine for the wrong reasons, you are going to have a vocal minority.

 

[Abider]

While I agree that most of you who have that Doug the thug type stuff in you will have greater appreciation for the opportunity that a medical seat offers it's worth noting that medicine does have certain unique personal compromises. Some of which I never want to be content with or be comfortable wearing.

But yeah if you really know what it's like out there busting your butt for peanuts then all of this will be par for the course in the struggle of being alive.

But let's not let that turn us into macho braggarts calling anybody who complains wimpy or whatever. A hard day is a hard day. And nobody needs to compete in a struggle off while they're unwinding and verbally decompressing. Don't be that guy.

 

[FiremedicMike]

While I agree that most of you who have that Doug the thug type stuff in you will have greater appreciation for the opportunity that a medical seat offers it's worth noting that medicine does have certain unique personal compromises. Some of which I never want to be content with or be comfortable wearing.

But yeah if you really know what it's like out there busting your butt for peanuts then all of this will be par for the course in the struggle of being alive.

But let's not let that turn us into macho braggarts calling anybody who complains wimpy or whatever. A hard day is a hard day. And nobody needs to compete in a struggle off while they're unwinding and verbally decompressing. Don't be that guy.

I'm not trying to say anyone who's complaining is a wimp, I'm merely commenting that physicians are not the only ones who give a large piece of themselves, physically and psychologically, to their profession. I feel that in many cases, traditional path medical students and physicians lose sight of this fact (or never knew it to begin with), and that it allows them to feel their suffering is worse than everyone else, then they lament on how awful medicine is.

 

[Abider]

I'm not trying to say anyone who's complaining is a wimp, I'm merely commenting that physicians are not the only ones who give a large piece of themselves, physically and psychologically, to their profession. I feel that in many cases, traditional path medical students and physicians lose sight of this fact (or never knew it to begin with), and that it allows them to feel their suffering is worse than everyone else, then they lament on how awful medicine is.

Dude, I totally agree with what you're saying. 100%.

The problem come with excess. I'm sure you realize that working 80-100 hours a week is suboptimal for your health. Something to do only when you have to. The problem with medical culture is that nobody knows the guy who works hard to balance his life. We just get the heavily praised and whitewashed stories of martyrdom.


I'm interested taking a crap on these dominant medical themes, which don't pertain to your comments specifically.

 

[Belle Melodie]

My husband is not in medicine. I've only completed my M1 year but I have to say so far I've had very little time to be with him. If you have 2 hours a day to spend with your significant other in any year of medical school you may be very lucky, or very smart! I think we were feeling the strain by the end of the year, and that helped inform my decision to not do much over the summer other than shadow a few Drs. and spend time with him, and make sure we went on lots of dates, did some traveling together and that I cooked his favorite meals, ran the household errands, basically did more than an even share of all the things that fell to him during the year. The more supportive and excited your spouse is about your future career the better off you'll be. There were a few times during the year when I was ready to go to the Dean's office and say I'm through, but he was the one who convinced me to stay. (which I'm glad of!) Schedule time for each other just as you schedule studying and in so far as it's possible make sure he really can handle the fact that there will be (more than a few) evenings where all you'll have time to do with him is scarf down some leftover Chinese and give him a kiss before you need to head back to the books. It should actually help that he has a demanding schedule himself. The couples who seem to have it the hardest on the non medical side are the ones whose SO's followed them to school but didn't have friends or employment of their own once they got there. The school schedule might make a difference as well. My school has exams every two weeks, which demands always being on top of things, maybe a block schedule could be more forgiving. Good luck, one year in so far, and going strong in school and on the relationship front, so I'm optimistic it can be done!

Very helpful post. 👍

 

[FiremedicMike]

Dude, I totally agree with what you're saying. 100%.

The problem come with excess. I'm sure you realize that working 80-100 hours a week is suboptimal for your health. Something to do only when you have to. The problem with medical culture is that nobody knows the guy who works hard to balance his life. We just get the heavily praised and whitewashed stories of martyrdom.


I'm interested taking a crap on these dominant medical themes, which don't pertain to your comments specifically.

Yep, the human body was not designed to go from sleep to 110mph in the span of 2-5 minutes. This is one thing I share with on-call physicians. I'm not sure if it's good or bad but at this point I'm just used to it. On my first day after the firehouse (we average 17 runs per shift, usually 1-4 after midnight), it's great if I get a nap, but if not, I can do just fine.

The sad thing is, my current work scenario is by choice. For several months I was working only my FD job, 2-3 24 hour shifts per week. Still not ideal, but I was significantly more relaxed. Then I got bored and applied for/was hired by MedFlight which was a long-time goal for me. Now I'm working 3 12 hour shifts every two weeks on top of my 24/48. I'm back to being exhausted again lol. The upside is I'm surrounded by brilliant people and taking care of patients circling the drain for hours at a time. I'm playing with drugs that I'll never see at the FD and actually managing physiology as opposed to just "hurry up, get us to the ED!!".

It's been my experience that working these hours is a labor of love, and those who say otherwise are usually lying. Yeah we get down and tired of dealing with the BS patients, the crappy hours, the bureaucracy, the sacrifice to our psyche, but we keep coming back for more. Deep down, even when we're bitching about it, we love it.

 

[QofQuimica]

There's a lot of disillusionment that goes on during the process of medical training. You have your ideas of what it's going to be like to be a physician, and then you get there and it isn't what you expected. The idealists find that reality doesn't conform to the ideal. You bust your butt to help people, and they repay you by spitting in your face (sometimes literally). The people with dollar signs in their eyes find out that the money isn't nearly as good as they expected. The ENT or bust guy finds himself doing gen surg because he couldn't get into an ENT residency. And so on.

While disillusionment can happen in many jobs, it's a lot harder for young physicians to quit and move on when they're sitting on a quarter of a million dollars worth of debt. The need to pay off that kind of debt is not something that typically motivates tinkers, tailors, soldiers and spies. So if you're feeling trapped in a job you don't like, and you don't see a realistic option for getting out (and especially if you're a trad with no other marketable skills besides being a physician), it's not surprising that you'd be miserable.

Ultimately, people have to find a way to make peace with the unpleasant sides of medicine. For some, it's accepting a decrease in salary for a job that is lower stress or has fewer hours. For some, it's taking a non-clinical job. For some, it's retraining into a different specialty. For some, it's retraining into a different career altogether. Eventually, that's what I'm going to do. I'll go back to school (probably part time) to get another masters and retire into being a medical ethicist.

 

[startoverat40]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/may/24/domestic-workers-abuse-violence
Every year, millions of women leave their own families in Africa and Asia to look after other people's in the west. But many domestic workers find themselves abused, beaten, raped, even murdered. Foreign Reporter of the Year Dan McDougall travels from Manila through the Middle East to London to hear their stories

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/gal...-domestic-workers#/?picture=347801358&index=8


your life doesn't suck!

 

[didanawisgi]

For some, it's retraining into a different career altogether. Eventually, that's what I'm going to do. I'll go back to school (probably part time) to get another masters and retire into being a medical ethicist.

I'm surprised to hear this. After reading your posts on and off throughout the years, I hadn't picked up on the fact that you were this ... unhappy(?) with your choice to become a doctor. Could you go into more detail in how you came to this decision?

 

[FiremedicMike]

I'm surprised to hear this. After reading your posts on and off throughout the years, I hadn't picked up on the fact that you were this ... unhappy(?) with your choice to become a doctor. Could you go into more detail in how you came to this decision?

Yep, me too.. Although she did just finish up a rather brutal intern year (from her other posts), perhaps that's part of the problem?

 

[Abider]

Yep, me too.. Although she did just finish up a rather brutal intern year (from her other posts), perhaps that's part of the problem?

Q's always been interested in ethics. It sounds like an awesome idea to me. Plus her field is probably flexible enough to make for a very smooth transition into whatever else.

When you're focused on getting in it probably seems like a terminal objective.. But it turns into a series of rooms with other doors too. It's not necessary to stay put once you've settled your debts.

With regards to your schedule, keep in mind you're already in a class by yourself as a premed. So you could stand to go a little easier on yourself. When I see 20-somethings kids put on 30 lbs or more in medical school with all the performance anxiety it makes me sad, not celebratory about their academic superlatives. But that's me...you know...actually thinking about doing what we're supposed to know by training.

 

[Law2Doc]

There's a lot of disillusionment that goes on during the process of medical training. You have your ideas of what it's going to be like to be a physician, and then you get there and it isn't what you expected. The idealists find that reality doesn't conform to the ideal. You bust your butt to help people, and they repay you by spitting in your face (sometimes literally). The people with dollar signs in their eyes find out that the money isn't nearly as good as they expected. The ENT or bust guy finds himself doing gen surg because he couldn't get into an ENT residency. And so on.

While disillusionment can happen in many jobs, it's a lot harder for young physicians to quit and move on when they're sitting on a quarter of a million dollars worth of debt. The need to pay off that kind of debt is not something that typically motivates tinkers, tailors, soldiers and spies. So if you're feeling trapped in a job you don't like, and you don't see a realistic option for getting out (and especially if you're a trad with no other marketable skills besides being a physician), it's not surprising that you'd be miserable.
....

While I don't disagree with what Q wrote, I guess I can offer the opposite perspective. Most days I have a blast. Like Q, I had a tough (in terms of hours) internship, but didn't actually hate it. There was a ton of camaraderie and everybody worked hard to watch each others back and carry each other along, with lots of gallows humor and joking 24/7. I feel like on this path there's always so much to learn, and never feel bored. Part of the blessing of coming to this field as a nontrad is that by the time you know enough that it feels stale, it will be time to retire. I get a kick out of doing all the things I never dreamed I'd be doing when I was a lawyer before I upset the turnip cart. Where else do they let you stick people with sharp objects, shove tubes and cameras up their noses, mouths and other orifices, do chest compressions until you hear ribs cracking, and not lock you up? The key difference is idealism. Folks in my prior field lose that faster than the average med student, so it wasn't really a shock when I saw all the things that disillusion some.

I thought house of god was a must read before going into medicine --it's an all too true example of residency life, (give or take the sex) -- the terms used by those residents are frowned upon, but the truisms hold up. You can't be idealistic, can't take things too seriously and always be humble about how little you really know or will ever know. And enjoy the ride. It's a crazy, hysterical ride if you have a warped sense of humor and can appreciate the ridiculousness of it all, and get a kick out of the cool moments that sustain you between the not so cool and dehumanizing moments.

 

[wholeheartedly]

L2D I think that's the most positive post I've seen of yours on here Thanks for that insight.

While I don't disagree with what Q wrote, I guess I can offer the opposite perspective. Most days I have a blast. Like Q, I had a tough (in terms of hours) internship, but didn't actually hate it. There was a ton of camaraderie and everybody worked hard to watch each others back and carry each other along, with lots of gallows humor and joking 24/7. I feel like on this path there's always so much to learn, and never feel bored. Part of the blessing of coming to this field as a nontrad is that by the time you know enough that it feels stale, it will be time to retire. I get a kick out of doing all the things I never dreamed I'd be doing when I was a lawyer before I upset the turnip cart. Where else do they let you stick people with sharp objects, shove tubes and cameras up their noses, mouths and other orifices, do chest compressions until you hear ribs cracking, and not lock you up? The key difference is idealism. Folks in my prior field lose that faster than the average med student, so it wasn't really a shock when I saw all the things that disillusion some.

I thought house of god was a must read before going into medicine --it's an all too true example of residency life, (give or take the sex) -- the terms used by those residents are frowned upon, but the truisms hold up. You can't be idealistic, can't take things too seriously and always be humble about how little you really know or will ever know. And enjoy the ride. It's a crazy, hysterical ride if you have a warped sense of humor and can appreciate the ridiculousness of it all, and get a kick out of the cool moments that sustain you between the not so cool and dehumanizing moments.

 

[FiremedicMike]

House of God by Sammual Shem? I've heard House of God mentioned several times on these forums, just wanted to make sure that was the right one before I bought it on iTunes.

 

[QofQuimica]

I'm surprised to hear this. After reading your posts on and off throughout the years, I hadn't picked up on the fact that you were this ... unhappy(?) with your choice to become a doctor.

I'm not. I was speaking in general, not specifically about myself. But I also don't expect to keep seeing patients until the day I die. Hence the need for a retirement career.

Could you go into more detail in how you came to this decision?

Like Abider said, I have a long-standing interest in medical ethics. What gave me the specific idea to eventually become an ethicist myself is that my ethics preceptor in med school did that as *his* retirement career. 🙂

 

[NightGod]

House of God by Sammual Shem? I've heard House of God mentioned several times on these forums, just wanted to make sure that was the right one before I bought it on iTunes.

Read it, don't watch it. Everything I've heard is that the movie is utter crap.

 

[Abider]

Read it, don't watch it. Everything I've heard is that the movie is utter crap.

Wow, I didn't even know it was a movie.

On topic of doc unhappiness and movies...and for a good laugh at watching docs drink booze and smoke cigs in a hospital...watch: The Hospital with George C Scott. It's awesome.

 

[NightGod]

Wow, I didn't even know it was a movie.

On topic of doc unhappiness and movies...and for a good laugh at watching docs drink booze and smoke cigs in a hospital...watch: The Hospital with George C Scott. It's awesome.

When I first read House of God it took me a while to adjust to statements about docs walking around smoking pipes and everyone taking cig breaks in the nurses' station.

 

[didanawisgi]

I'm not. I was speaking in general, not specifically about myself. But I also don't expect to keep seeing patients until the day I die. Hence the need for a retirement career.


Like Abider said, I have a long-standing interest in medical ethics. What gave me the specific idea to eventually become an ethicist myself is that my ethics preceptor in med school did that as *his* retirement career. 🙂

Ah... okay. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[ucsfstudents]

You can definitely be happy in medicine. The key is to find an area you are passionate about, prioritize your values, and maintain a work life balance. Some people do it better than others.

 

[COMedic2Doc]

I think medicine is very worth going into for the right reasons, if money is a main motivator probably not a good idea to pursue medicine considering the overwhelming debt in both time and finances. That said, there are many students that go straight from high school to college to medical school to residency. Therefore they never see any other job or any other position when they're whining about how horrible life as a physician is for them. This can be said of any career field, job, or any other walk of life.

I have met surgeons who absolutely loved their career choice, sure residency sucked but they knew that going in and then they have consciously guarded their lifestyle with decisions of giving up extra cases, shifts, etc after becoming an attending. I have also worked with a surgeon who's notoriety included throwing knives across the OR and was borderline insane due to burnout.

So as with any position, choose to be happy, choose to enjoy the ride, keep your family on the same page with you by choosing to spend time with them and you'll find medicine very rewarding and a great career. Enjoying medicine is entirely possible, but it's all about making choices for your ideal of the better life or better career and then defending those decisions.

 

[Law2Doc]

When I first read House of God it took me a while to adjust to statements about docs walking around smoking pipes and everyone taking cig breaks in the nurses' station.

Yeah the days of pipes are over, and now it's just the nurses who still smoke (outside)l there are a few things in the book that are very seventies, but a lot about resident life that still rings true. The movie was awful, don't waste your time with that.

 

[FiremedicMike]

Read it, don't watch it. Everything I've heard is that the movie is utter crap.

I meant iBooks, is that the correct author though?

 

[NightGod]

I meant iBooks, is that the correct author though?

Yeah, that's definitely the right one.

 

[Abider]

Watched The House of God movie last night on netflix. Pretty bad. Seriously with the racial stereotypes in1984?... I guess it was awhile ago. A lot of the jokes were corny as F@ck too.

But if one thing came through alright it might be the frightening aspect of being an intern.

Definitely not worth watching, I only half watching while surfing the net.

Oh I forgot though there was some interesting actor appearances...Michael Richards was Dr. Pinkus, senior resident jogger psycho. Joe Piscopo was the uber-dork chief resident. Didn't recognize the fatman. Some others I can't remember.

 

[ShyRem]

I went through medical school with a husband and two children. Through that process we were homeless for the first 6 weeks, I spent MS3 2 hours away from home working the typical 60-90 hour weeks and got home on occassional weekends, spend 3 months away from home during MS4 so I could be near where I was going to interview for residency. My family moved across the country and halfway back again (but to be fair, they had a BIG say in those moves).

We are still happily married and celebrating our 19th wedding anniversary this year. My children are happy, healthy, and we have a good relationship. Parent, not necessarily friend, relationship. My daughter is applying to colleges this coming year and has her eyes set on medical school. (initially she said NO WAY, but has now been seriously considering the possibility). My son is too much of a teenage boy interested in athletics to figure out what he wants to be when he grows up.

Now, was it difficult? Depends on what you mean by that. My husband worked nights while I was in school days for the first two years. Time together was precious, but we always took time to make sure we knew we appreciated each other. I studied at the couch to be near the family as much as possible. I eschewed the bar scene after exams in favor of quiet nights with popcorn and a family friendly movie.

Did it suck? Definitely at times it did.

Now I am two years into an internal medicine residency. I work an average of 6 days a week, anywhere from 9 to 12 hours a day during residency. Indeed, a 60 hour work week feels like "a freakin' vacation." No lie there. I almost miss the 30 hour calls because it meant I would have more time off in one chunk. Now it's all a little here, a little there other than vacation. But it could definitely be worse.

Is it tough during residency? Sure. Is there light at the end of the tunnel? Yup. Already signed my contract. I know that in 12 months I will have a job, my son will finish high school where he wants, my husband will live in a town he likes very much. And we can start paying off some freakin' debt (which is the biggest monkey on our backs and a source of much stress). We remind ourselves often there are better days coming and it will all be worth it. My husband and children are outrageously proud of me and tell me so daily. They are still my rock, my foundation, my soft place to land, they take care of me, and I depend mightily on them. I hope someday to be able to make some of their dreams come true as they have helped me make mine come true.

While my husband isn't in medicine, he was a police officer. So we are accustomed to odd hours, long shifts, being unable to get time off when you want, missing special days, ballgames, etc. I think that made the journey a bit easier for us as our children were used to having holidays moved around to accomodate schedules. On the whole, I've made about half my son's basketball games, met my daughter's dates most of the time, see my kids and husband daily even if it's just for an hour or so.

Divorce. I've seen plenty. Most attendings I talk to have been divorced at least once. Most residents, however, tend to get married. How long they stay married I don't know yet. We'll see.

So here I sit. One year from being done. In debt up to my eyeballs. Would I do it again? Yup. But only if my husband and children were by my side. They would tell you I balanced things well. I will tell you it IS a balance. You have to choose between being a gunner for that 100% on the exams vs. spending time with family (unless you are one of those freaks of nature that don't ever need to study, get everything the first time, put things together without thinking, and have a photographic memory that never forgets anything they ever read). I chose balance. And I'm happy with my choices.