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psychometric

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Hi

I would like to know if any of you ever met someone or read about somebody, who obtained a PhD in psychology from the University of South Africa (UNISA) via distance?

It is a pure dissertation, usually completed under the guidance of a mentor (if you can find one, such as your previous Master's thesis advisor).


Having an MFT-degree and thinking of this dissertation option;
would this be a route to do almost what one could do , after having received a clinical PhD?

Please pour in your comments !👍
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Seriously?

We're talking about an international program that is online, not accredited, and involves no coursework. I can't imagine it would be easy to convince a licensing board you should be licensed at the doctoral level for something like that. Heck, half the time when starting a traditional doctoral program people have to repeat their master's coursework. As for academic stuff, it might help you get a teaching job at a random school that just wants all their faculty to have a PhD after their name, but that's probably about it.

I could be wrong, but this doesn't sound like much of an option at all. Unless you plan on moving to SA.
 
this is a sure way to get numerous ethics violations poured upon you. followed by malpractice suits.

and in several states using these degrees is illegal.

in fact, i can think of no reason why someone would want to do this except:


to be called "dr."

you would have no extra clinical experience. you would know dick about testing, psychometrics, etc.

no insurance panel would accept you, reimbursement would not increase, etc.

so why do it?


getting called "dr." requires some sacrifice, including time and effort through such wild activities as going to class and practicuum. get over, go to a real school and use the title, or don't and don't use the title.
 
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This shows, you guys did not read my question the way it was written.

You are reading way too much of your own insecurities into the post.

Do not post such comments, if you have no idea, what the program is about (obviously you don't).

It is an internationally recognized "research degree", which means you do not have to take classes and nobody would assume you do. You know, there are different options, people can work with, outside of the visionary realm of people who don't look beyond the edge of their plate.

MFT = therapy, PhD = research.

If you have only ranting comments; do not post, okay? It is not very intelligent !😀
 
MFT=MFT. that's it. lots of degrees have clinical components, including phds and especially psyds. a phd doesn't just mean research, though, it means coursework -- non-clinical psychology phds entering with a MS/MA don't just get to do thier dissertation and get out. those are at least 60 credits of coursework. most masters are between 30-48, max. most phd and psyds that include a masters are 90-100 credits, so yes, you will be missing something if all your phd requires is a thesis.

and if you intend for the phd to be part of a clinical career, well, i do wonder if the clinical coursework/expereince one gets in a MFT is the same as what you would do for clinical training in a clinically oriented phd. i don't know but i'm doubtful.

the other posters may not have sugar coated thier commentary, but the idea of that kind of education passing for the phd i hope to earn, well, it's not thrilling, and likely is not an asset to the field.
 
you asked for comments, so deal with it.

your question was "would this be a route to do almost what one could do , after having received a clinical PhD?"


the answer is no.

the job of someone with a clinical Phd is threefold:

1) research

you cannot just do research. you will need coursework in things like statistics, history, and core subjects regarding your area of research to be fully able to contribute to the scientific community.

furthermore, no research institute/university would hire someone to do research without any coursework therein. please see every APA job posting. note they all require a history of external funding, a publication history, and usually graduation from an APA approved program. federal grants also require you to give a rationale for your expertise in the area that you want funding for. Usually being able to point to coursework and a publication history guarantees this. but since this will not be a possibility, then you are doing no research.

also there would be grave concerns abut getting an IRB formed to do any research. who would it be composed of? how would you guarantee the safety of any subjects? which journal would allow an IRB from a separate continent than the one where the research was being done? in effect none.

2) clinical services composed of :

a) therapy- your MFT liscense may be minially adequate here. however you would run into significant liabiity if you introduce yourself as "dr". no liscensure board would allow you to sit for doctoral level liscensure due to the lack of coursework in any of the madated areas. so the "internationally recognized" degree would serve you no benefit here. other than helping you misrepresent yourself.

b) assessment- again the intenrantionally recognized dgreee would do nothing for you here. test interpretation requires significnat statistical comprehension, practice, and knowledge. you degree would have no coursework, so again there would be no benefit to yourself. the concern here is that you would be practicing beyond your education, which is a violation of APA ethics. moreover, your MFT liscense would not allow you to purchase a large majority of tests. again, the only possible benefit would be for you to defraud the public into thinking you are a clinical psychologist, when you are really an MFT.




if you want someone's opinion, then be prepared to have them say something that contradicts what you had hoped.
 
I pretty much agree here. What would be the advantages of said program over the traditional model and path? This sound like someone is trying to "backdoor" their way into the profession.

"Having an MFT-degree and thinking of this dissertation option;
would this be a route to do almost what one could do , after having received a clinical PhD?"

I seriously hope you are not suggesting that the only thing missing from a MFT degree is research and a dissertation in order to make it equatable to a Ph.D. in clinical psychology. If you think thats true, you are sorely mistaken.
 
psychometric said:
This shows, you guys did not read my question the way it was written.

You are reading way too much of your own insecurities into the post.

Do not post such comments, if you have no idea, what the program is about (obviously you don't).

It is an internationally recognized "research degree", which means you do not have to take classes and nobody would assume you do. You know, there are different options, people can work with, outside of the visionary realm of people who don't look beyond the edge of their plate.

MFT = therapy, PhD = research.

If you have only ranting comments; do not post, okay? It is not very intelligent !😀
Click to expand...

Actually I looked up the program to see since "dissertation only" got me curious, and if we really want to bring intelligence into the mix, I should point out that after 10 minutes of reading their website I apparently have a better understanding of the differences and what it will/will not do for you than you do.

That's great that it is a "research degree". All US recognized "research degrees" involve substantial coursework. A PhD in clinical psychology involves fairly extensive training in BOTH research and therapy. Had you said "Experimental psychology" my answer would have been different, albeit not by much.

You said clinical, which means licensable at the doctoral level, training in assessment, training in therapy, etc. Clinical PhDs aren't research-only anywhere in the US.

By the way, if you considered the above a rant, you're very lucky I'm holding back on what I'd really like to say right now. Clearly you are just looking for the path of least resistance and pats on the back for it, so have fun, and I won't bother taking your posts seriously anymore.
 
Ollie123 said:
Actually I looked up the program to see since "dissertation only" got me curious, and if we really want to bring intelligence into the mix, I should point out that after 10 minutes of reading their website I apparently have a better understanding of the differences and what it will/will not do for you than you do.

That's great that it is a "research degree". All US recognized "research degrees" involve substantial coursework. A PhD in clinical psychology involves fairly extensive training in BOTH research and therapy. Had you said "Experimental psychology" my answer would have been different, albeit not by much.

You said clinical, which means licensable at the doctoral level, training in assessment, training in therapy, etc. Clinical PhDs aren't research-only anywhere in the US.

By the way, if you considered the above a rant, you're very lucky I'm holding back on what I'd really like to say right now. Clearly you are just looking for the path of least resistance and pats on the back for it, so have fun, and I won't bother taking your posts seriously anymore.
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Boy, you have serious issues, still not understanding what the intention of the question entailed. I just leave it at that, since I am not into this type of "conversation."
 
ok then. what is the question you wanted an answer to?
 
erg923 said:
ok then. what is the question you wanted an answer to?
Click to expand...

I mean, having an MFT license to do therapy, and then adding on a PhD to be able to do research. I never meant getting licensed at the doc level, which could not be done anyway. Testing would not be an option either.

I just would like to do therapy and research, and thought, this might be an option to give me the tools to do both?

I hope, this is more clear than before?

It's about ---> MFT/PhD not
Clin. PhD work
 
I think I see what you are getting at, but the answer is still no. I think you are confusing a few things here.

1. A dissertation is a culmination, a "sentinel work" if you will, on a topic that is the end result of years of research training. A dissertation, in and of itself, does nothing to demonstrate that one is a competent independent researcher. Without prior research experience (years of it), and doctoral level didactic instruction in research methodology and multivariate statistics, it would be an enormously difficult endeavor, and the end product is likely to be of low quality. If I had tried to do a dissertation my first year of grad school, it would have looked like...well you know what. This program lacks the fundamental elements of what a dissertation was originally designed to be, and the skills it was designed to demonstrate.

2. This program further confuses me because what exactly is this Ph.D in? It cant be in psychology! You have no formal graduate level training or coursework in psychology. I would think that it could not be in anything really, because in isolation, a dissertation does not equate to a Ph.D in a subject. If I'm a geologist, and do a large research project in paleontology with a paleontologist, that in no way qualifies me for a Ph.D. in paleontology. You have not demonstrated doctoral level expertise or mastery of any field as a whole. A Ph.D. implies mastery of a field, partially demonstrated by research within that field. However, that research has to be founded on, and backed up by a knowledge of that field as a whole. In this case, you have just done a large researcher project. Thats all.

3. When the dissertation is complete, what are you planning to do then? You have done one research project, essentially in isolation. You have no other demonstrable experience in research, or track record of researching the phenomena which you wrote into a dissertation. Further, the program is not accredited by any US body. Speaking from an employers perspective, why would I hire you to do resesarch when there are 1000s of others who demonstrate more knowledge, more productivity, more expertise, and came from accredited programs. Who would hire you? Assuming you were working in a clinical position, why would I pick you to do research or head a project over those other people I mentioned? These are the are the real world questions you need to ask yourself. Again, if I had thrown together a "dissertation" my first year of grad school, with only rudimentary understanding of methodology, statistics, and the subject matter I'm researching, I would certainly not feel comfortable being an independent researcher after that, would you?
 
erg23....I think that was a very good description of the issues of that type of program.

psychometric....It may feel personal, but I think people are just wary of programs that may not offer what people expect. A Ph.D. is as much about learning HOW to do research, stats analysis, etc....as actually DOING the work. I know my doctoral training really enhanced my ability to understand why I do what I do, instead of a strictly "learning by doing".
 
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i would like to make one additional point:

there are some european traditions of "reading for" one's phd, which is the basis for the UNISA degree. these degrees are almost exclusively offerred in the humanities. this is form of education is not accepted in american universities or research institutes. it is universally unaccepted in the sciences.

i maintain my deep concern for any human subject research that on ewould do with an IRB on a separate continent.
 
PSYDR said:
i would like to make one additional point:

there are some european traditions of "reading for" one's phd, which is the basis for the UNISA degree. these degrees are almost exclusively offerred in the humanities. this is form of education is not accepted in american universities or research institutes. it is universally unaccepted in the sciences.

i maintain my deep concern for any human subject research that on ewould do with an IRB on a separate continent.
Click to expand...


Another remark that proofs, you have no idea what you are talking about. "Reading" is a joke, what it is , is that in Europe, students do not study the same classes 3x, but move on to the next level. Their Masters is our PhD, just for your much needed info. No other developed country acccepts American degrees , the way, they are meant to be perceived, only the US, wheras vice versa , education from AUS, EU, etc, are at a higher standard and excepted regularily. What we do here is studying classes in our BA that we did in the AA, in the Masters what we did in the BA , and so on, that leaves classes in a PhD mostly to the repitition from a Masters (mostly is a word too).
So, for someone like you to misinform students on this forum, is not a good thing, but it sure shows, you can not think outside your small "American" mind.


*MOD NOTE: deleted inappropriate diatribe. -t*
 
i have friends with phds, in phds in europe, in psych as well as biology and the humanities (oxford, cambridge, sorbonne), and for them, what you are saying is not the case at all. it requires a great deal of work, including coursework.

just by reading posts on this board, most of the posters on this board are discussing american and canadian unis., and that's where most of us are coming from. if you have no interest in practicing in north america then maybe that degree will mean something different to you, maybe it will be useful. however, like others have said, it will not be competitive in the north americas, at the very least, and if you are not interested in practicing in the us or canada, it is unlikely that you will find much helpful info on this board.

also, insulting people here based on our nationality is a low shot. really.
 
Psychometric,

Didn't you just post you were going to University of LaVerne? I think everyone was really just looking out for your interests. It may sound a bit harsh, but programs like that are suspect at best. It may have all come off as negative towards YOU, but I'd bet that was unintentional. No need for the masturbation defensiveness. I got a bit of a chuckle out of it though. Anyways, we all know you are capable of getting into a more respectable program if you want to incoporate research into your career. You just have to bite the bullet as far as time/effort/money.
 
to clarify:

1) i did not resort to ad hominem arguments. I have not made any comments about the quality of your person at any point in this discussion. i would appreciate it if you would refrain from doing so as well.


2) i did not say that all european phds read for their degrees. i simply said there was a tradition that some universities still use. i did not mean to imply anythign other than that. i apologize to psybee if he/she took my words in a different light. i have a friend at oxford currently who has coursework that is more than extensive. i have also met numerous european phds that have incredible coursework from world class faculty.

3) i made no comments on the aceptablility of this degree outside of america.

4) you asked for an opinion several times on this subject. i have given mine, which is that you will not be able to do the same thing a clinical phd would do if you receive this degree. several other posters on this board have also given you their responses. if you do not agree with the position i am taking, that is fine. you are more than free to do whatever you want.

good luck.
 
PSYDR said:
to clarify:

2) i did not say that all european phds read for their degrees. i simply said there was a tradition that some universities still use. i did not mean to imply anythign other than that. i apologize to psybee if he/she took my words in a different light. i have a friend at oxford currently who has coursework that is more than extensive. i have also met numerous european phds that have incredible coursework from world class faculty.
Click to expand...


no offense at all. i try to not get offended when someone has a different view than me or knows something i don't. i agree with what you wrote though -- i was just reading about european educational systems and how they changed between 1600's and 1900's and indeed, reading for your doctorate was standard, but no longer is. i never thought that you implied that all europeans read, rather is seemed you were standing up for the OP and trying to explain why he/she may have viewed the dissertation-only online PhD in a better light than the other posters.

i was more commenting (perhaps not very well) to the idea that our (us and canada) extensive coursework as part of the PhD is somehow an american thing, and that europeans don't have it. combining the masters with the phd seems to be more of an american thing, which may make our degrees look repetitive, but if you go in from the BA/BS it's not really. in europe and the us you still need tons of coursework and supervision to ultimately get that doctorate.
 
NewPsychStudent said:
Psychometric,

Didn't you just post you were going to University of LaVerne? I think everyone was really just looking out for your interests. It may sound a bit harsh, but programs like that are suspect at best. It may have all come off as negative towards YOU, but I'd bet that was unintentional. No need for the masturbation defensiveness. I got a bit of a chuckle out of it though. Anyways, we all know you are capable of getting into a more respectable program if you want to incoporate research into your career. You just have to bite the bullet as far as time/effort/money.
Click to expand...

At first, I wasn't paying any attention to this thread. After I read and re-read it though, this post really jumped out as the central issue that everyone was coming back to. I think one reason (among several already pointed out) that so many respondents kept asking you to repeat the question is that literally, you don't have to have a credential to conduct research. You could start right now. While it is true that a PhD is more likely to be taken seriously, it is not a requirement. So in that context, it sounds like what you are asking is "will my research actually be paid attention to." In which case, all the points made about how shady this program sounds are pretty valid. Get a PhD from a school that people have heard about, and the answer is "yes." In other words, as mentioned by NewPsyhStudent, everyone on here wants you to make a smart choice, ergo "looking out for your best interests."

The hostile replies have made everyone more suspisious that what you may be trying to do is take a short cut to something we all had to work very hard for. It is not necessarily the case, but it kind of smells like that.

Edit--I also think that the comments made so far about practicing/researching in north America are not without merit. In the US and Canada, if someone says to me that they have a PhD in clinical psychology, even though programs differ in many ways, I have a PRETTY GOOD idea of what that person had to do to get there. There is some degree of continuity there. With the UNISA degree, again, you run the risk of presenting yourself as something you are not--no matter brillliant/qualified/whatever you may be.

That's what I think anyway.
 
psychometric said:
So, for someone like you to misinform students on this forum, is not a good thing, but it sure shows, you can not think outside your small "American" mind.

*MOD NOTE: deleted inappropriate diatribe. -t*
Click to expand...

LOL, I didn't realize that being small minded was a trait that needed to be described with the term "American" in it. Might I remind you that this country of small minded fools just happens the be the most powerful nation on the earth, like it or not. We may be somewhat egocentric as a result, but it's a matter of being the elephant in the back yard. It's hard to ignore.

That said, I was going to completely ignore this topic until you got all defensive about others not understanding the value of a UNISA degree. Here is the problem, it may be a respected degree elsewhere, but it is not in the US. Whine, moan, and b!tch all you want but that's not going to change the facts. I know that my credentials here may or may not translate well overseas for practice, but I somehow doubt that my Ph.D. will not be respected by my European colleagues as a Ph.D. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong but, I will have real research to point to, real journal articles published and extensive experience on which to support my credentials earned as part of my Ph.D. program. That is the difference.

Mark
 
psychometric said:
Another remark that proofs, you have no idea what you are talking about. [/B][/I]
Click to expand...

Using bad punctuation and the wrong words (it's "proves," not "proofs") does not make you sound like you know what you're talking about, either.
 
In most European countries you do all your clinical work and classes at Masters level (testing, therapy training, etc) and you can be licensed to practice (in that country). If you want to do research/teach you do a ~3 year PhD in addition which usually has very minimal, if any course work, and mainly consists of doing a large dissertation project. I know of Europeans with this type of degree who teach or do research in the US with this degree, you don't necessarily have to have an American PhD. However, when it comes to licensing, it's a different matter... You could do a respecialization degree, which usually takes a couple of years (for which you need a PhD, but it can be from a different country). However, as you can practice with your MFT maybe you wouldn't want to. I think there are some options.. whatever the others say.
 
"small American minds" dominate the field of psychological science. Do not bite the hand that feeds you. Spoken like a true good ole egocentric American, right.....lol
 
LaLuna123 said:
In most European countries you do all your clinical work and classes at Masters level (testing, therapy training, etc) and you can be licensed to practice (in that country). If you want to do research/teach you do a ~3 year PhD in addition which usually has very minimal, if any course work, and mainly consists of doing a large dissertation project. I know of Europeans with this type of degree who teach or do research in the US with this degree, you don't necessarily have to have an American PhD. However, when it comes to licensing, it's a different matter... You could do a respecialization degree, which usually takes a couple of years (for which you need a PhD, but it can be from a different country). However, as you can practice with your MFT maybe you wouldn't want to. I think there are some options.. whatever the others say.
Click to expand...

i don't doubt it -- i am no expert, and i'm coming from an N of 3, after all.

i am not sure if the poster has a european masters or a north american one -- i'm imagining if the PhD is almost all dissertation in europe that the coursework/training in the masters or before is more intense or comprehensive. in that case, an american practice-oriented masters plus a dissertation-only phd would not be the same as a phd in either part of the world, in training, in the amount of learning (which matters! it's not just the paper or the letters after your name, it's what you learn too, that you use the rest of your life). especially since an MFT is a clinical, not a research oriented masters, and the OP says the point of the PhD would be research. one would need research-oriented coursework then, serious stats, methodology, etc.

however, while one could totally practice with a MFT here, other folks comments about the utility of an online phd for research, especially one sans coursework, for jobs, grants, etc, still does stand. in other countries it may be different, but i still wonder why someone would post on a site that overwhelmingly talks about US/Canadian schools yet get upset when we say that it would not be very useful or competitive in these countries. if he/she want to practice in other places, that's great, but don't go on this board, which the OP was familiar with and had posted on dozens and dozens of times, ask for the comments to "pour in", and then pissed off when we say that here it would be next to worthless and insult really helpful long time members and insult some of us based on our nationality.

whatever, my horse won in the derby (go big brown!) -- i'm going back to my julep.
 
The doctoral degree offered at UNISA is derived from the model of doctoral education developed in Britain and her Commonwealth. In England, Scotland, Wales and most of the Commonwealth (Canada excepted) the awarding of a Ph.D. is based on research conducted under faculty supervision. A graduate student at Oxford, Cambridge, the University of Edinburgh, or the University of New South Wales working on a n M.Phil. or Ph.D. degree requires little or no coursework at all. These are referred to as "research degrees." UNISA follows that model.

The research doctorate is intended for academics not practitioners. Many academics from Britain and the Commonwealth regard the American Ph.D. as an inferior degree because we do coursework. Many of their academics regard attending classwork as an enormous waste of time, talent and effort. Many British and European academics regard doctoral level coursework as an indicator that our undergraduate institutions and secondary school systems do such a poor job of educating us that we need to take more classes. Typically, when getting a research doctorate one obtains a taught M.Sc. or MA degree first and then begins doctoral work by registering for an M.Phil degree. After making progress on the M.Phil, one upgrades to the Ph.D. degree Despite a prejudice against doctoral level coursework, some British universities have been moving to a "new route" Ph.D. which includes some coursework.

A friend of mine is working on a Ph.D. in Psychology from the University of Kent in Canterbury England. It is by dissertation only. The dissertation process is often far more involved and lengthy than the process in the USA. The Ph.D. at UNISA could be useful in academe I suppose but it can not be used for the practice of psychology in the US.

However, I should note that a research doctorate from an established British or Commonwealth university with the Royal Charter is a highly legitimate academic degree. I am sure no one on this board would regard a degree from Oxford or Cambridge as illegitimate. However, these degrees are not appropriate for clinical practice. In the UK one gets a D.Clin.Psy or Doctor of Clinical Psychology in order to practice and this is a "taught" degree.
 
I think those are valid points, but, we are in America here, not Europe. You play the cards you are dealt and you have to work with within the dominant frame of the academic system here. I am not saying the UNISA dissertation is useless or anything. I'm just being pragmatic. We don't work that way in America, nor do we share that view of the doctorate. So why would I hire you, when I have 10 other applicants who did it the more conventional way? Further, other applicants would display years of research training, and are likely to be more competent independent researchers than someone who did one online project. No one in the states is going to hire you to do research at their institution with an online disseration from UNISA. Period.
 
Well one could be involved in a research with a bachelors degree, so I'm sure a PhD from a foreign institution will stop you from getting lower level research positions... But it will be more unlikely you'll be hired to be the PI of a number of grant funded research projects. You could always try to find a S. African working in the US and ask how their degree converted to the US system... Not quite sure how you'd go about doing this but there must be a couple some where 🙄

I'm not sure how this distance learning works however, but I do know of someone who's getting a PhD in Biology from Denmark but is doing their research in the US under a mentor who is based here. I guess that sounds similar to what you're suggesting?
 
Although this may be my "American Bias", I see many of the brightest minds from countries around the world come to the US for their education, and then go back to their home countries.

With that being said, as long as the OP goes into the situation with his/her eyes wide open, then it is their choice. Academia can be quite picky about things, and degree portability may or may not work state-side, which is a valid concern.
 
Neuropsych2be said:
The doctoral degree offered at UNISA is derived from the model of doctoral education developed in Britain and her Commonwealth. In England, Scotland, Wales and most of the Commonwealth (Canada excepted) the awarding of a Ph.D. is based on research conducted under faculty supervision. A graduate student at Oxford, Cambridge, the University of Edinburgh, or the University of New South Wales working on a n M.Phil. or Ph.D. degree requires little or no coursework at all. These are referred to as "research degrees." UNISA follows that model.

The research doctorate is intended for academics not practitioners. Many academics from Britain and the Commonwealth regard the American Ph.D. as an inferior degree because we do coursework. Many of their academics regard attending classwork as an enormous waste of time, talent and effort. Many British and European academics regard doctoral level coursework as an indicator that our undergraduate institutions and secondary school systems do such a poor job of educating us that we need to take more classes. Typically, when getting a research doctorate one obtains a taught M.Sc. or MA degree first and then begins doctoral work by registering for an M.Phil degree. After making progress on the M.Phil, one upgrades to the Ph.D. degree Despite a prejudice against doctoral level coursework, some British universities have been moving to a "new route" Ph.D. which includes some coursework.

A friend of mine is working on a Ph.D. in Psychology from the University of Kent in Canterbury England. It is by dissertation only. The dissertation process is often far more involved and lengthy than the process in the USA. The Ph.D. at UNISA could be useful in academe I suppose but it can not be used for the practice of psychology in the US.

However, I should note that a research doctorate from an established British or Commonwealth university with the Royal Charter is a highly legitimate academic degree. I am sure no one on this board would regard a degree from Oxford or Cambridge as illegitimate. However, these degrees are not appropriate for clinical practice. In the UK one gets a D.Clin.Psy or Doctor of Clinical Psychology in order to practice and this is a "taught" degree.
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You are the only one , who exactely knows his/her stuff to the last point. Bravo, you are an open-minded person. I am really glad, people like you do actually exist. My intention had never been to get licensed at the doctoral level, but utilize this degree purely for research purposes. You got it !

Thanks for the excellent post👍
 
LaLuna123 said:
In most European countries you do all your clinical work and classes at Masters level (testing, therapy training, etc) and you can be licensed to practice (in that country). If you want to do research/teach you do a ~3 year PhD in addition which usually has very minimal, if any course work, and mainly consists of doing a large dissertation project. I know of Europeans with this type of degree who teach or do research in the US with this degree, you don't necessarily have to have an American PhD. However, when it comes to licensing, it's a different matter... You could do a respecialization degree, which usually takes a couple of years (for which you need a PhD, but it can be from a different country). However, as you can practice with your MFT maybe you wouldn't want to. I think there are some options.. whatever the others say.
Click to expand...


Thanks, good post.🙂
 
Neuropsych2be said:
A friend of mine is working on a Ph.D. in Psychology from the University of Kent in Canterbury England. It is by dissertation only. The dissertation process is often far more involved and lengthy than the process in the USA.


Would it be possible to ask your friend how his/her degree would work , if your friend would want to look for a research position over here?

I don't know if that is asking too much, but it would truly interest me.

Take care😉
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I have a friend from South Africa, and yes their university system is quite different than here in the U.S.

I'm just curious, why did you choose UNISA? Do you have ties to there? Do you have a possible mentor? It just seems like it would be quite challenging logistically. Although, SA is a beautiful place to visit should you ever have to go there 😀
 
I have not spoken to him in awhile so I am unsure as to where he is in that program. If I see him I will ask and send you a message. My impression is that UNISA has a decent reputation. If you want to teach in academe, then a British or Australian doctorate might have much more cachet than one from UNISA. However, one thing to keep in mind is that though a research doctorate may give you a valid and respected degree, you will not have transcripts per se. This may be confusing to someone hiring in the USA for a teaching position. Many a foreign academic has had to give potential employers a crash course in comparative graduate education 🙂 If you are interested in getting a doctorate via this route you would first contact a faculty member interested in some area of research you are interested in at the university. They can then become an advocate for you. When making inquiries you should not ever use the term "distance learning" since that terminology is unknown and a research doctorate it is not really distance learning or online learning. The terminology is "external degree" or "external doctorate." You can get more information at http://www.degreeinfo.com
 
Thanks for the info and update. Good to know these things.

Please let me know. I am really thankful, I received your feedback😉
 
NVM..I don't want to get involved in this

(retracted statement)
 
I am South African, and have been studying in the USA for the last 6 years. the degree system is quite different. BA/undergrad degrees are 3 years, and then post-grad is a 1 year "Honours" degree, and then a 2 year MA degree, and then a 2-3 year PhD (as stated in the previous posts your last step does not have course work but is a very in depth research dissertation). UNISA in South Africa does not have a bad name at all. Although it is not one of the top 4 SA universities it does have a decent reputation. It is in fact ONLY a correspondence university; I was interested to find out since living in the USA that distance learning facilities, here in the USA, are not regarded very highly - however in SA this is quite different, UNISA is the only correspondence school in the country and is considered to be of a good standard. I did some of my Honors work at UNISA and it was FAR superior to the MA level work that I did at Teachers College (which is actually affiliated to the ivy league Columbia University). You will get very good supervision at UNISA with whatever independent research you are interested in pursuing. It will however be difficult because the British system is very strict with entering into programs without completing their very cut and dry levels prior to the PhD ie you would need to have majored in general psychology for four years (they might drop the Honors requirement) and then you would need an MA in psychology (South Africa does not have the MFT), they are ridiculously strict with this for example you cannot have an undergrad in one thing and then decide to get an MA in another discipline. This might have changed since I was educated there (I got my BA in 1994) but i remember them being very strict and I really enjoyed the freedom in the USA. I hope this helps. Good luck.
 
ProspectivePsyD said:
I am South African, and have been studying in the USA for the last 6 years. the degree system is quite different. BA/undergrad degrees are 3 years, and then post-grad is a 1 year "Honours" degree, and then a 2 year MA degree, and then a 2-3 year PhD (as stated in the previous posts your last step does not have course work but is a very in depth research dissertation). UNISA in South Africa does not have a bad name at all. Although it is not one of the top 4 SA universities it does have a decent reputation. It is in fact ONLY a correspondence university; I was interested to find out since living in the USA that distance learning facilities, here in the USA, are not regarded very highly - however in SA this is quite different, UNISA is the only correspondence school in the country and is considered to be of a good standard. I did some of my Honors work at UNISA and it was FAR superior to the MA level work that I did at Teachers College (which is actually affiliated to the ivy league Columbia University). You will get very good supervision at UNISA with whatever independent research you are interested in pursuing. It will however be difficult because the British system is very strict with entering into programs without completing their very cut and dry levels prior to the PhD ie you would need to have majored in general psychology for four years (they might drop the Honors requirement) and then you would need an MA in psychology (South Africa does not have the MFT), they are ridiculously strict with this for example you cannot have an undergrad in one thing and then decide to get an MA in another discipline. This might have changed since I was educated there (I got my BA in 1994) but i remember them being very strict and I really enjoyed the freedom in the USA. I hope this helps. Good luck.
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Great! Thanks so much for your post. I might even do something , considered totally untraditional here, which is , getting my PsyD, then PhD (dissertation -UNISA).

😉
 
psychometric said:
Great! Thanks so much for your post. I might even do something , considered totally untraditional here, which is , getting my PsyD, then PhD (dissertation -UNISA).

😉
Click to expand...

Respectfully, that just begs the question, WHY? Why on earth would you do that?

If you want a Ph.D. and you want a Psy.D., it makes more sense to just go to a balanced Ph.D. program or a research biased Psy.D. program.

Mark
 
Was going to post something -- but wow, no - I don't want to get involved. (retracts post)
 
You might feel ill prepared for the PhD (and end up hating the process) as it will be heavily quantitative in design and they will not be teaching you how to conduct statistical analysis (as they would expect you to have a sophisticated knowledge base from the MA), and a PsyD (unless it is a research weighted program) will not give adequate training in research methods. As long as you go in being very clear regarding all the pros and cons then you will make an educated decision for yourself and your own personal needs, whether that be clinical, in academia, or just for personal interest.
 
ProspectivePsyD said:
You might feel ill prepared for the PhD (and end up hating the process) as it will be heavily quantitative in design and they will not be teaching you how to conduct statistical analysis (as they would expect you to have a sophisticated knowledge base from the MA), and a PsyD (unless it is a research weighted program) will not give adequate training in research methods. As long as you go in being very clear regarding all the pros and cons then you will make an educated decision for yourself and your own personal needs, whether that be clinical, in academia, or just for personal interest.
Click to expand...


I agree. Well-balanced answer, thanks. I do have , and will obtain more analysis knowledge, but will make up my mind towards the last year of my next program (PsyD with research emphasis).

I might not go for it, but , lets see.

Thanks again for your feedback🙂
 
erg923 said:
I think those are valid points, but, we are in America here, not Europe. You play the cards you are dealt and you have to work with within the dominant frame of the academic system here. I am not saying the UNISA dissertation is useless or anything. I'm just being pragmatic. We don't work that way in America, nor do we share that view of the doctorate. So why would I hire you, when I have 10 other applicants who did it the more conventional way? Further, other applicants would display years of research training, and are likely to be more competent independent researchers than someone who did one online project. No one in the states is going to hire you to do research at their institution with an online disseration from UNISA. Period.
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Boy, keep thinking inside the box:-(
 
psychometric said:
Boy, keep thinking inside the box:-(
Click to expand...

I suggest whatever clinical program you choose (MFT, etc), please choose one that requires personal therapy as part of the process. I think you may find that very useful.
 
ProspectivePsyD said:
I am South African, and have been studying in the USA for the last 6 years. the degree system is quite different. BA/undergrad degrees are 3 years, and then post-grad is a 1 year "Honours" degree, and then a 2 year MA degree, and then a 2-3 year PhD (as stated in the previous posts your last step does not have course work but is a very in depth research dissertation). UNISA in South Africa does not have a bad name at all. Although it is not one of the top 4 SA universities it does have a decent reputation. It is in fact ONLY a correspondence university; I was interested to find out since living in the USA that distance learning facilities, here in the USA, are not regarded very highly - however in SA this is quite different, UNISA is the only correspondence school in the country and is considered to be of a good standard. I did some of my Honors work at UNISA and it was FAR superior to the MA level work that I did at Teachers College (which is actually affiliated to the ivy league Columbia University). You will get very good supervision at UNISA with whatever independent research you are interested in pursuing. It will however be difficult because the British system is very strict with entering into programs without completing their very cut and dry levels prior to the PhD ie you would need to have majored in general psychology for four years (they might drop the Honors requirement) and then you would need an MA in psychology (South Africa does not have the MFT). They are ridiculously strict with this for example you cannot have an undergrad in one thing and then decide to get an MA in another discipline. This might have changed since I was educated there (I got my BA in 1994) but i remember them being very strict and I really enjoyed the freedom in the USA. I hope this helps. Good luck.
Click to expand...

They are incredibly strict but there are ways around it. I have a bachelor's degree in agricultural economics and statistics from a U.S. university. However, before I could enroll in the master's program (MCom) in transport economics at UNISA, I first had to complete the BCom (Hons) in transport economics. Believe it or not, it took me two years to finish the 5 required modules before I earned the degree and then enrolled in the master's program. I completed my research and received the MCom in two years as well. 👍

They were good educational experiences but it is a foreign country with a different, more inflexible system.

BTW, my wife is a doctoral student in psych.
 
I'm still trying to comprehend how "online" and "doctorate" even belong in the same paragraph.

Can someone help me?
 
Aggieanthony said:
I'm still trying to comprehend how "online" and "doctorate" even belong in the same paragraph.

Can someone help me?
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The doctorate described by the original poster is known as a "research degree." In much of Europe, Great Britain and the Commonwealth countries such as Australia, the Ph.D. (or D.Phil) is awarded for the submission of a doctoral thesis that is defended in a viva voca session with a panel of faculty acting as examiners. There is no coursework involved. This is the standard method of getting a doctorate at universities such as Oxford, The University of London, Cambridge, Leiden, the Sorbonne etc ... The American system of doing classwork plus a dissertation is actually at variance with standard academic practice at these universities. Typically, in this system, students obtain a "taught" masters degree involving coursework prior to enrolling in a doctoral level "research degree" program. Actually, a student finishes an MA or MSc degree and enrolls in a M.Phil degree programme and after making progress is usually "upgraded" to the Ph.D. or D.Phil. The doctoral thesis (the term used in the UK for what we call a dissertation) is often longer and the process of doing one is more involved than in the US.

The doctoral thesis/dissertation is the product of a lengthy research process that does not *necessarily* have to be done at the university itself. This is where the confusion about "distance" comes in. These degrees are not online in any way. Instead, the doctoral student enrolled in a research degree such as this might do their research either at the university or they might do so off-site. If the student's advising faculty member feels they can supervise the research, it may be conducted anywhere. Arrangements are made on a case by case basis. Such a research degree is quite inappropriate for clinical work and would never lead to licensure.
 
Aggieanthony said:
I'm still trying to comprehend how "online" and "doctorate" even belong in the same paragraph.

Can someone help me?
Click to expand...

Neuropsych2be provided a very good description of the differences between the two systems. (North American model vs. the UK/Commonwealth/European model)

UNISA is a South African university and as such, has some unique (bizarre?) idiosyncrasies. For example, the title of the doctoral degree programs differ from those found elsewhere. For each different title, naturally, there are different qualifications and requirements. Here are a few offered in psych:

http://brochure.unisa.ac.za/brochure/data/pdf/08540.pdf

http://brochure.unisa.ac.za/brochure/data/pdf/08338.pdf

http://brochure.unisa.ac.za/brochure/data/pdf/08419.pdf

http://brochure.unisa.ac.za/brochure/data/pdf/09199.pdf

http://brochure.unisa.ac.za/brochure/data/pdf/09210.pdf
( a Doctor of Commerce in either Consulting Psych or Psych) 😱
 
UNISA was founded in 1873 in South Africa and spent most of its early history as an examining agency for Oxford and Cambridge. It also spawned the top four universities in South Africa. It is fully accredited and has 200,000 students currently. Nelson Mandela is an alumnus.

Doctoral students at UNISA are encouraged to have their theses published in a juried journal, though this is not a requirement for the degree.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Cambridge
 
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