Univ. of Mich. - why so many great applicants?

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Maxprime

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Cruising around MDApps, I've always found a surprising number of incredible applicants (last one I saw was a 3.9 and 42 I think) applying to UM out of state. Why is this program so highly valued? I'm not trying to suggest it shouldn't be, I was just curious if there was a specific reason people went after it or if it's just overall just a fantastic program.
 
As much crap as I give my friends at Michigan I have it admit it's a very well rounded school. They have loads of both clinical and research opportunities which I think is key. They have a curriculum that discourages competition and that makes a huge difference. The tuition is low after the first year and they are very generous with scholarships. Also, Ann Arbor is a great place to live. So overall I think its just a great program, I sure as hell would go if they took me. But they wont 🙁.

What I can't understand is why WashU has such high averages. It's freakin insanity...
 
Maxprime said:
Cruising around MDApps, I've always found a surprising number of incredible applicants (last one I saw was a 3.9 and 42 I think) applying to UM out of state. Why is this program so highly valued? I'm not trying to suggest it shouldn't be, I was just curious if there was a specific reason people went after it or if it's just overall just a fantastic program.
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It's a top 10 school in a nice location. Nothing too surprising about getting a lot of the top applicants to apply.
 
Michigan gets great applicants because its football team almost beat Appalachian State and its basketball team gave Harvard a heck of a game.:laugh:
 
Michigan also has a lot of other top ranked graduate programs, like MPH, MBA, etc, so some find it a great place to do a dual degree.

Also, they give auto-invites for interviews if your stats are above a certain level and if you go to a top notch undergrad institute. Not that most don't apply for all the other reasons, but some I'm sure apply because of the chance to instantly interview at a top 20.
 
I think UM has similar applicant quality with other schools in its class... UCSF, Harvard, Penn, Wash U, Duke, etc... all have an extremely high caliber of applicants and matriculants. The only US News top 10 that has somewhat lower stats than the rest is UW and that is because it has a strong in-state focus and reserves a lot of interview slots for WWAMI students.
 
Law2Doc said:
nice location
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UM is a great school, but...

The location sucks, sure its good for a college town but the high temperature today in Ann Arbor is not going to break freezing. Right now, its over 70 degrees where I am. Med school can be depressing enough, much less if you add a longer period of depressing weather in the mix.
 
ymnCheetos said:
As much crap as I give my friends at Michigan I have it admit it's a very well rounded school. They have loads of both clinical and research opportunities which I think is key. They have a curriculum that discourages competition and that makes a huge difference. The tuition is low after the first year and they are very generous with scholarships. Also, Ann Arbor is a great place to live. So overall I think its just a great program, I sure as hell would go if they took me. But they wont 🙁.

What I can't understand is why WashU has such high averages. It's freakin insanity...
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Yeah, I am very curious about that too, it seems as though they don't bother reading applications, they just pick kids strictly based on numbers
 
Doublecortin said:
Yeah, I am very curious about that too, it seems as though they don't bother reading applications, they just pick kids strictly based on numbers
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They give a decent amount of merit scholarships, which generally go to high stat applicants...
 
Doublecortin said:
Yeah, I am very curious about that too, it seems as though they don't bother reading applications, they just pick kids strictly based on numbers
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There are a lot of high numbers out there yet only a little over a hundred spots for the incoming class. Let's look at it from WashU's perspective, if you were to choose how to pick one of those applicants how would you weight the following:

1)essays: mom, professionals, writing tutors can write those
2)grades: you can easily cheat, have an easy class, easy professor, etc.
3)activities: easy to embellish
4)MCAT: controlled environment, standardized across the nation, you either know it or you don't (and a good predictor for Step scores)
5)interview: you have the person sitting right in front of you, are they the real deal or not, are they fun to talk to, will they make a great addition to the incoming class?

Keep in mind the less you weight the standardized (MCAT) and "she's sitting right in front of me (interview)" things, the more weight you give to biased sections in the app. Perhaps that is one reason why WashU focuses on interview and MCAT?
 
drizzt3117 said:
I think UM has similar applicant quality with other schools in its class... UCSF, Harvard, Penn, Wash U, Duke, etc... all have an extremely high caliber of applicants and matriculants. The only US News top 10 that has somewhat lower stats than the rest is UW and that is because it has a strong in-state focus and reserves a lot of interview slots for WWAMI students.
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Is UW restricted WWAMI?
 
drizzt3117 said:
Yes unless you demonstrate a commitment to help the underserved.
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And if you demonstrate this commitmnet do they charge you in-state tuition and give you some aid so you can actually help the underserved when you graduate?
 
Drogba said:
And if you demonstrate this commitmnet do they charge you in-state tuition and give you some aid so you can actually help the underserved when you graduate?
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No, I'm not even sure if people from Alaska, Idaho, Wyoming, and Montana get in-state tuition at UW but people not from the state certainly do not.
 
washusup said:
There are a lot of high numbers out there yet only a little over a hundred spots for the incoming class. Let's look at it from WashU's perspective, if you were to choose how to pick one of those applicants how would you weight the following:

1)essays: mom, professionals, writing tutors can write those
2)grades: you can easily cheat, have an easy class, easy professor, etc.
3)activities: easy to embellish
4)MCAT: controlled environment, standardized across the nation, you either know it or you don't (and a good predictor for Step scores)
5)interview: you have the person sitting right in front of you, are they the real deal or not, are they fun to talk to, will they make a great addition to the incoming class?

Keep in mind the less you weight the standardized (MCAT) and "she's sitting right in front of me (interview)" things, the more weight you give to biased sections in the app. Perhaps that is one reason why WashU focuses on interview and MCAT?
Click to expand...

The MCAT is simply another test like the SAT and the ACT, which tests nothing but your ability to take the test. There are lessons that Medical schools take away from the test (i.e., how you do under a time constraint; how well you can think critically), but ultimately most people who take the MCAT simply cram for it over the course of the semester prior to taking the test.

The interview, on the other hand, is the most important part. In my opinion, people who cannot handle face-to-face interaction, as well as a simple discussion about your personal application should be rejected. Interviews are extremely easy as long as you were honest in your application and your medical career. That isn't to say that some people do not struggle, but worrying about how you will portray yourself is simply stupid.

If you want to get into UW, get a good enough MCAT that gets you in the door. Then, show them who you are by breezing through an already simple interview.
 
drizzt3117 said:
No, I'm not even sure if people from Alaska, Idaho, Wyoming, and Montana get in-state tuition at UW but people not from the state certainly do not.
Click to expand...

Man there is no way to make it into the westcoast. I tried undergrad, but the UCs were chargin me crazy money.
 
washusup said:
There are a lot of high numbers out there yet only a little over a hundred spots for the incoming class. Let's look at it from WashU's perspective, if you were to choose how to pick one of those applicants how would you weight the following:

1)essays: mom, professionals, writing tutors can write those
2)grades: you can easily cheat, have an easy class, easy professor, etc.
3)activities: easy to embellish
4)MCAT: controlled environment, standardized across the nation, you either know it or you don't (and a good predictor for Step scores)
5)interview: you have the person sitting right in front of you, are they the real deal or not, are they fun to talk to, will they make a great addition to the incoming class?

Keep in mind the less you weight the standardized (MCAT) and "she's sitting right in front of me (interview)" things, the more weight you give to biased sections in the app. Perhaps that is one reason why WashU focuses on interview and MCAT?
Click to expand...

As for MCAT being a good predictor for Step scores, I've heard there is only very small correlation between the two. . .

Because MCAT is a multiple choice test, there will always be an element of luck, and the caliber of people you are competing at a particular administration. I think since it was shortened by 1/3, the element of luck will be even more significant now than it was in the past.

Just my 2 $0.02, as you could probably guess, I am not a huge fan of MCAT as I didn't do as great as I thought I should 🙁
 
.
 
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ohsekw said:
their clinical ranking is not great.
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What do you mean, clinical ranking is not great? Are you referring to primary care? That's hardly clinical ranking.

Michigan has outstanding facilities, great faculty, and nice associated hospitals with a reasonably diverse patient population (if not as much as some inner city medical schools) It's also been around for a long time, and residency directors are very familiar with their graduates. It also has a huge amount of research funding, for those interested in research.
 
.
 
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ohsekw said:
Wait really? This is news to me...and good news, at that 🙂. I don't really understand, though. I thought research was research - scientific investigation, I guess - and primary care was a metric for patient care.
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Primary care rankings are based on a number of factors, with emphasis on the number of people that go into primary care professions out of that particular medical school. This number is also quite deceptive because a lot of people that go into IM are actually going into specialties, like oncology, cardiology, gasteroenterology, etc.
 
ohsekw said:
Wait really? This is news to me...and good news, at that 🙂. I don't really understand, though. I thought research was research - scientific investigation, I guess - and primary care was a metric for patient care.
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Look at the schools that are top Primary care and you'll see, they got a DO school in the top 50 primary care rankings man, DO!

UM has quite of a bit of money, passes it around, and received lots of grants. Excellent research setting, and the hospital system is one of the best in the country.

They are also a very easy to apply school, auto-invites, post-invite secondary essays ( I did mine 3 days before the interview), super fast response allow top tier applicants to not have to worry about getting into a good med school for the rest of the year. A real stress reliever.

Ann Arbor is a great town I think, just not enough going on, but certainly one of the nicest for a school of its rank. In regards to weather, its the freakin winter, its not suppose to be above freezing...man up
 
Their excellent match list!!!
The only numbers I paid attention to in the US News ranking was how highly residency directors ranked a particular school, because that's the best indicator of perceived clinical skill. UMich is usually in the top 5.
 
albaloo said:
Their excellent match list!!!
The only numbers I paid attention to in the US News ranking was how highly residency directors ranked a particular school, because that's the best indicator of perceived clinical skill. UMich is usually in the top 5.
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I'm not sure about top 5, but it's certainly one of the better ones. Keep in mind, though, that residency matches have a heavy regional focus.
 
drizzt3117 said:
I'm not sure about top 5, but it's certainly one of the better ones. Keep in mind, though, that residency matches have a heavy regional focus.
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Based on director rankings in US News, it is indeed top 5. UM publishes this on every med school document they send out, and that statistic makes me very excited to go there.

Oh, and the good thing about living in a quiet town like Ann Arbor --> You don't have to be worried about getting mugged and having ur iPod stolen 👍
 
nhtreehugger said:
Based on director rankings in US News, it is indeed top 5. UM publishes this on every med school document they send out, and that statistic makes me very excited to go there.

Oh, and the good thing about living in a quiet town like Ann Arbor --> You don't have to be worried about getting mugged and having ur iPod stolen 👍
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Alternatively you could just move to Canada. 😀
 
Lived in Ann Arbor for 10 years and did Residency at UofM. Ann Arbor is great. UofM has tons of resources. UM med students are smart but pretty lazy which means it is pretty cush once you get in!
 
nhtreehugger said:
Based on director rankings in US News, it is indeed top 5. UM publishes this on every med school document they send out, and that statistic makes me very excited to go there.
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I don't doubt that it is, I'm simply stating that as a UM grad you'll get more attention from the top midwestern programs than the top ivies or west coast programs.
 
I want to get in dammitttt.....

Sorry just had to rant my anxiety 🙁
 
Is Michigan a DO school or Allopratic? I always thought it was an osteopathy school
 
maestro1625 said:
I lived in ann arbor on and off for about 3 years so a few things...

Ann Arbor may not be Philly, but it does have its share of crime. I know plenty of friends and neighbors who have had their rentals and apartments broken into. The moderate number of homeless wandering around town tend to cause such problems.

However, I'm also of the opinion that if you can't find entertainment in Ann Arbor or the surrounding area, then you're probably just some spoiled bitch New Yorker. Lots of good outdoor activites, a good number of decent bars and breweries (even better when you find the places not infested with undergrads) and great food choices. Between Ann Arbor and Detroit, you're unlikely to have a shortage of traveling concerts and shows either.

For the above comments about the "clinical" rankings. USNews no longer makes a true "clinical" ranking anymore. In the past, the ranking now known as the primary care rank, was a separate classification known as the "comprehensive medical school ranking" that basically looked like the current ranking system, but with the research dollars factored out. It was also-non overlapping with the research rank, so schools with the top 60 research budgets were ineligible for it... kinda strange, but I'm not sure the current system is any better.

...and as for Ann Arbor's weather: buy a coat and quit complaining. it's not that bad.
Click to expand...

What's the lowest Ann Arbor has gotten temperature wise?
 
Arc said:
Is Michigan a DO school or Allopratic? I always thought it was an osteopathy school
Click to expand...

It's definitely allopathic.

I've heard great things about it from a friend who goes there. They take the diversity thing seriously and it seems to work really well for their school's dynamic.
 
I have heard that UM gives AUTO-INVITES to applicants from TOP schools (HYPS) but does it give auto-invites to TOP UM undergrads? UM med school pays a lot of attention to pedigree (undergrad school) - seems to me anyway - but how does it treat its own?

What stats do you have to have to get an auto-invite from UM med school if you are a UM undergrad?

Just wondering. Can someone shed some light. Thanks.
 
peaceandjoy said:
I have heard that UM gives AUTO-INVITES to applicants from TOP schools (HYPS) but does it give auto-invites to TOP UM undergrads? UM med school pays a lot of attention to pedigree (undergrad school) - seems to me anyway - but how does it treat its own?

What stats do you have to have to get an auto-invite from UM med school if you are a UM undergrad?

Just wondering. Can someone shed some light. Thanks.
Click to expand...

When I went to my UM interview, I met many UM undergrads so I believe they also get auto invites...and since I'm not an ivy undergrad, I will question the statement about auto invites only to ivies...
 
peaceandjoy said:
I have heard that UM gives AUTO-INVITES to applicants from TOP schools (HYPS) but does it give auto-invites to TOP UM undergrads? UM med school pays a lot of attention to pedigree (undergrad school) - seems to me anyway - but how does it treat its own?

What stats do you have to have to get an auto-invite from UM med school if you are a UM undergrad?

Just wondering. Can someone shed some light. Thanks.
Click to expand...

There are quite a few schools that would be eligible for auto-invites (not just HYPS). All the ivies, UM, and some of the UC's (Berkeley, UCLA, possibly UCSD as well) are on that list, as well as other top private schools. Can't remember what else off the top of my head...
 
Phosphorus said:
You guys forgot to mention that UofM, as a public school, accepts a majority of their students from OOS, which attracts a lot more applications. Thanks UofM, for supporting your home state.

Yes they have great facilities, a great reputation, and they are one hell of an educational institution, but they're still bastards.
Click to expand...

University of Michigan is older than the state of Michigan (from what I remember of interview day) so it's not 100% public...thus the large numbers of OOS students
 
maestro1625 said:
I lived in ann arbor on and off for about 3 years so a few things...

Ann Arbor may not be Philly, but it does have its share of crime. I know plenty of friends and neighbors who have had their rentals and apartments broken into. The moderate number of homeless wandering around town tend to cause such problems.

However, I'm also of the opinion that if you can't find entertainment in Ann Arbor or the surrounding area, then you're probably just some spoiled bitch New Yorker. Lots of good outdoor activites, a good number of decent bars and breweries (even better when you find the places not infested with undergrads) and great food choices. Between Ann Arbor and Detroit, you're unlikely to have a shortage of traveling concerts and shows either.

For the above comments about the "clinical" rankings. USNews no longer makes a true "clinical" ranking anymore. In the past, the ranking now known as the primary care rank, was a separate classification known as the "comprehensive medical school ranking" that basically looked like the current ranking system, but with the research dollars factored out. It was also-non overlapping with the research rank, so schools with the top 60 research budgets were ineligible for it... kinda strange, but I'm not sure the current system is any better.

...and as for Ann Arbor's weather: buy a coat and quit complaining. it's not that bad.
Click to expand...

I was told that UM students get free access to the public transpo system. Do you have a car, or do you use the bus? And how is the bus system there? Thanks!
 
nhtreehugger said:
I was told that UM students get free access to the public transpo system. Do you have a car, or do you use the bus? And how is the bus system there? Thanks!
Click to expand...

yup, that's true. there's two bus systems: the blue Michigan buses (owned by the U; http://pts.umich.edu/) and the AATA buses (owned by Ann Arbor; http://aata.org/). the blue buses are free to everyone, all you have to do is walk on. there are several different lines that will take you almost anywhere throughout campus. the AATA buses are free with your mcard (student id), and they'll take you to most places in ann arbor and also to Ypsilanti (the next town over).

I have a car and only use the bus when it's sleeting outside (like today) to get to class. I'd say most people walk unless they (1) live ridiculously far away or (2) are going to North Campus (which is where the engineers are). The bus systems are really good, but as far as going shopping/etc (which would mean using the aata), I prefer to use my car just because it's quicker and more convenient. But the buses are generally packed, so you wouldn't be considered a weirdo if you used them.

Also, as an fyi: if you don't have a parking spot on campus, it's not really worth driving to class. You'd have to either drive through neighborhoods forever trying to find a place to park, or pay to park in the structure. And most of the structures aren't available for students to use during business hours because you need a faculty permit. Student permits are available, but they're expensive and tend to be in the boondocks, so they're not worth it unless you really are coming from far away (i.e. ypsi). There are also some park-and-ride options available for that.
 
j-weezy said:
University of Michigan is older than the state of Michigan (from what I remember of interview day) so it's not 100% public...thus the large numbers of OOS students
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the university of michigan....where your best hasn't been good enough since 1817

the state of michigan...lame since 1837
 
Doublecortin said:
As for MCAT being a good predictor for Step scores, I've heard there is only very small correlation between the two. . .

Because MCAT is a multiple choice test, there will always be an element of luck, and the caliber of people you are competing at a particular administration. I think since it was shortened by 1/3, the element of luck will be even more significant now than it was in the past.

Just my 2 $0.02, as you could probably guess, I am not a huge fan of MCAT as I didn't do as great as I thought I should 🙁
Click to expand...

The MCAT is not a good predictor of Step scores. They are different exams.

Yes, you can say there is an element of luck because you can get questions you are strong at or questions you are weak at but everyone is in the same situation so when you think about it, it's 'fair'.


I wish you all the best of luck in entering a medical school.
 
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