University vs. Community Programs

[anestheticman]

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In the final stages of freaking out about how to rank my programs, I am weighing location heavily and wondering what people think I might be losing out on by ranking a top university program well below a crappy community program simply due to its location and/or other benefits of the program like moonlighting or housing.

 

[NotAMD]

i think it depends on just how crappy the community program is vs how great the university program is... both of the St. 's in manhattan I would not consider crappy community programs and would rank them above mediocre university based programs in other locations if that is your preference. Why dont u go ahead and tell us the names of the programs so we can help?

Basing anything on moonlighting or housing IMO is ******ed.. i mean seriously.. moonlighting? how much are you really going to make? wishful thinking to believe you will have extra time you want to spend working for a SMALL increase in pay relatively.. and housing.. most places subsidized housing is only slightly better than the market if at all.

 

[anestheticman]

First I didn't mean "crappy" I was just talking out of my *** there. I meant not prestigious.

1) Harbor-UCLA (you make up to 70-80K as a CA-3 as part of the program) vs. USC/UCI

2) StLR (basically you are making about 12,000 a year extra when you factor in the housing) and StV (no housing now) vs. SUNY Downstate

Right now I need help putting these in order but have them drafted like this:

NYU
USC
StLR
Harbor-UCLA (big ? here)
SUNY Downstate
StV
UI Chicago
UCI (I hate suburbs)
Miami

Somewhere below these: StJoseph's, Maimonides, Baylor, Yale, UC Davis, Loma Linda, NYMC, and a few others

 

[Noyac]

I think you are crazy not to rank them according to the experience you will receive there. Location should be lower on your list of priorities IMHO. Prestige is difficult to rank. I think that if you go to a very prestigious program with many fellows then you will more than likely need a fellowship your self b/c you ain't gonna get to do those cases. If they have crna's, make sure they use them appropriately. Things like the eye room (great crna room) do they use them to get you out for lectures, etc. Or are the crna's doing some of the big cases that residents should be doing.

Finally, I would think all things being the same that the university program would be a better choice.

 

[NotAMD]

First I didn't mean "crappy" I was just talking out of my *** there. I meant not prestigious.

1) Harbor-UCLA (you make up to 70-80K as a CA-3 as part of the program) vs. USC/UCI

2) StLR (basically you are making about 12,000 a year extra when you factor in the housing) and StV (no housing now) vs. SUNY Downstate

Right now I need help putting these in order but have them drafted like this:

NYU
USC
StLR
Harbor-UCLA (big ? here)
SUNY Downstate
StV
UI Chicago
UCI (I hate suburbs)
Miami

Somewhere below these: StJoseph's, Maimonides, Baylor, Yale, UC Davis, Loma Linda, NYMC, and a few others

so it seems like you prefer nyc=la >chicagoe > miami
i personally would put miami ahead of chicago but assuming the above this is how i would rank them



NYU
USC
Harbor-UCLA (big ? here)
SLR
St. V
SUNY Downstate
UI Chicago
UCI (I hate suburbs)
Miami

also.. i think you may be putting a little too much emphasis on the housing at SLR.. when i went i remember it was something like 1700 for a 1br? you could just get a studio for 1000-1200 on your own in the market.. i dont remember what they said a studio was but if you make like 2400/mo and the most u are going to pay is 1200 you will be able to live fine

 

[anestheticman]

Yeah, so why St. V over SUNY Downstate then? That's a tough one.

Also I'm mostly NYC > than LA with the caveat that all my friends and family are in CA. USC is a great choice I think with a great call schedule and I liked everything about it but Harbor I'm still stuck on where to put it because of the bad things I've heard about the workload and hospital issues. Also, they are on a 2 year review cycle and getting reviewed right now and who knows how that will turn out.

For SLR I wrote down about 1000 for a studio and looking at the studio I imagined those to go for about 2000 if I were to find one on my own but maybe I am wrong.

Regardless of the housing, I think SLR is the second best choice in NYC for me and NYU is certainly not a guarantee. I just need to decide how much I want to move versus stay in CA if I can.

 

[usnavdoc]

I think that if you go to a very prestigious program with many fellows then you will more than likely need a fellowship your self b/c you ain't gonna get to do those cases. QUOTE]

This is not always the case when a program has fellows. You need to look at the volume and breadth of case assignments versus number of fellows and residents on a rotation. For instance, We have 5 cardiac fellows but they are spread out on different services such that there is only one on a rotation with you at any one time. I never feel like I am competing for cases.

 

[NotAMD]

Yeah, so why St. V over SUNY Downstate then? That's a tough one.

Also I'm mostly NYC > than LA with the caveat that all my friends and family are in CA. USC is a great choice I think with a great call schedule and I liked everything about it but Harbor I'm still stuck on where to put it because of the bad things I've heard about the workload and hospital issues. Also, they are on a 2 year review cycle and getting reviewed right now and who knows how that will turn out.

For SLR I wrote down about 1000 for a studio and looking at the studio I imagined those to go for about 2000 if I were to find one on my own but maybe I am wrong.

Regardless of the housing, I think SLR is the second best choice in NYC for me and NYU is certainly not a guarantee. I just need to decide how much I want to move versus stay in CA if I can.

I put St. V's over downstate because of location.. if you are willing to go to SLR than you are really wanting to be in manhattan... and if that is the case going to downstate is not worth it for the "university" name if you really want to live in the city. Plus St. V's is categorical with a sweet PGY1 year, i would prefer downstate because of the exact opposite, its NOT in the city, cheaper living, still access to the city.. etc.. with those two it is just about location.

I have a family member who lives on the upper west side for 1000, with a roomate, in a relatively nice place. I am from the area and SLRs housing was OK for me at best, as St. V's has estimated, it will probably save you about 2000 a year max to have the subsidized housing versus not. You can find studios for 1200.

 

[toughlife]

I think you are crazy not to rank them according to the experience you will receive there. Location should be lower on your list of priorities IMHO. Prestige is difficult to rank. I think that if you go to a very prestigious program with many fellows then you will more than likely need a fellowship your self b/c you ain't gonna get to do those cases. If they have crna's, make sure they use them appropriately. Things like the eye room (great crna room) do they use them to get you out for lectures, etc. Or are the crna's doing some of the big cases that residents should be doing.

Finally, I would think all things being the same that the university program would be a better choice.

This is great advice. .

 

[anestheticman]

I really think my experience level and education will depend on what I make of the program not whether it is attached directly to a university or not. Especially if I don't want to do a fellowship and just want to be a run of the mill anesthesiologist with an average salary in a decent city.

Here is what I have now:
NYU
USC
SLR
StV
SUNY Brooklyn
Harbor-UCLA
UI Chicago
UC Irvine
Miami

 

[NotAMD]

What was your general impression of westchester as a program(aside from hating the suburbs)?

 

[anestheticman]

It was fine. I loved the PD/chair.

If I didn't need a car and if it wasn't on probation it would be up there with the others... I'm waiting for a response from them about the probation.

You?

 

[NotAMD]

the major problems i saw were probation and that the residents seemed to work hard, but i am not sure how hard in comparison to SLR etc.. given that it is not nyc i would think it would be less hours but the residents seemed overworked and one said 70 hrs per week was a "fair" estimate also liked the pd and seems like good experience

 

[anestheticman]

i can't make decisions.