UOP vs. UCLA????

[bl1ndfolded]

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If anyone chose UCLA over UOP, please let me know why.

I got into both and am about 80% sure I want to go to UOP, but I am thinking of specializing in oral surgery and I know UCLA might be more conducive to that. Please let me know whether you are at UOP or UCLA and why you chose the school over the other (if you did have that decision to make). Thanks!

 

[drhobie7]

I chose UCLA over UOP. I wanted to live in LA. Didn't think I wanted to specialize at the time. I'm doing oral surgery next year. I would absolutely pick UCLA over UOP if you think you want to specialize. I'm not saying it's warranted, but there are some residency programs that do not take UOP seriously because it is a 3 year dental school. I think UCLA will allow you to keep all your doors open.

 

[Apico]

Just out of curiosity did you apply or get into UNLV? I will guarantee the OS experience you get here is better than either of those schools. Out of the first class graduating only one app and he matched. The 3 that are applying this yearing each have 7-15 interviews.(schools like UCSF,UPENN,LSU,etc).

If not I think either of the schools would be great. I can tell you that UOP will better prepare you clinically though.

Good Luck with your decision.

 

[Revellian]

I will guarantee the OS experience you get here is better than either of those schools.

I can tell you that UOP will better prepare you clinically though.

Would you care to back up either of those assertions?

With regards to the OP, I think if you are planning on specializing in oral surgery you'd be making a mistake not to accept UCLA for the reason drhobie mentioned. If, however, you think there's a good chance that you'll go straight into private practice, as I am, then you have a harder choice to make. If I had to do it over again I would still go to UCLA, as I have been extremely satisfied with my education here. But I can't deny the advantage of getting out and working a year earlier.

 

[vaio]

if you want to be a GP go to UOP..If you want to specialize go to UCLA. <--based on info from this site only

both are good schools..congrats

 

[drhobie7]

I met a few of the UNLV OMS applicants on the interview trail. They were cool people. I did hear they do a bunch of 3rd molar extractions. That's neat. Getting more experience in extractions at the predoc level is definitely a plus, but you can acquire this during externships. Depending on the externship, you will be able to do things no dental student can in dental school.

Not having an oral surgery residency would be a major negative for me when choosing a school. This is where you get to see the big surgeries: orthognathics, pathology resections, reconstruction, TMJ, trauma, complex implant cases, oncology. These are typically not cases for the outpatient OMS clinic. Not to mention, you can be part of regular morning rounds (if you are willing to wake up early) and conferences. UOP has Highland, which is a great program but is not really that close to UOP (it is in Oakland).

The bottom line is you can attend UCLA, UOP, or UNLV and get into a good residency program...if you have high board scores, good grades, good letters of rec, leadership/extracurricular experience, and research. Go where you think you'll be happiest.

 

[Apico]

Revellian I can back up those assertions..at UCLA how many full bony impacted thirds have you done?..Have any of your predocs placed implants? Are you guys even allowed to do tori removals? How about cysts and not the ones that come out with the tooth during extractions, can you do those?

However, as Dr.Hobie has said it would be kind of cool to have the residency. Though, I don't think we would get the experience that we do. You can also see these things on externships, which we have 1 month to do every year.

Anyways I agree as well that any of the schools will get you where you want as long as you do well.

 

[brycethefatty]

I'm a UOP student and we have a lot of collaboration with Highland. It's easy to get to know Dr. Indresano if you want to. He's very open to getting to know students who are interested in OS and very willing to help. Student here have a great success in getting matched and getting internship positions.

On the down side, in my opinion, UOP has a lot less time to prepare for the boards, and I didn't think the school made any extra effort to help find us time, or help prepare us to do really well. At UCLA you have summers "off", and no class rank to worry about. There's no way for me to know this, but didactically, UCLA is probably a lot stronger and get higher board score than UOP. Lots of pros for UCLA right there.

However, UOP is a fun school to go to, and no matter what, if you do well, you can get in somewhere.

 

[drhobie7]

Revellian I can back up those assertions..at UCLA how many full bony impacted thirds have you done?..Have any of your predocs placed implants? Are you guys even allowed to do tori removals? How about cysts and not the ones that come out with the tooth during extractions, can you do those?

However, as Dr.Hobie has said it would be kind of cool to have the residency. Though, I don't think we would get the experience that we do. You can also see these things on externships, which we have 1 month to do every year.

Anyways I agree as well that any of the schools will get you where you want as long as you do well.

At UCLA extraction experience is typically non-surgical, meaning you don't usually use a Hall drill. You can flap whatever you want. However, if you do your rotation at other sites like King Drew or VA Sepulveda you can do plenty of surgical extractions and tori removal. I did my block at UCLA/Harbor Hospital so I'm not sure about the specifics of the off site rotations. Since there are no OMS residents at the VA Sepulveda and there's only 1 GPR resident you get to do a lot. I'm sure the dental students are involved in most of the surgical cases. I doubt a dental student at any school is given full autonomy to enucleate pathology. If so, I'd hate to be that patient. Furthermore, due to the legal risk involved I doubt any general dentist (in his right mind) does excision of pathology, including cysts. Suppose a little bit is left behind, it recurs as an OKC, and the patient undergoes block resection of the mandible. The lawyers will be asking, "Doctor where did you get your surgical training?"

"Oh I got it during dental school."

Case closed.

 

[nate28]

Case closed.

I thought Case just opened?

Zing!!

But Hobie does make a good point, you need to know when to refer a specialist.

 

[Apico]

Dr.Hobie you make some good points and I agree with a lot of what you are saying. In private practice a GP should not be removing pathology unless they are prepared to deal with any possible complications ie.. recurrence,
block resection, etc.... So I agree that it should go to a specialist. However, just because an OS does the procedure does not mean recurrence is not possible. I enucleated an OKC that was positioned apical to tooth #28 2 months ago. The OS on hand came by to make sure it was done correctly, but I was the one laying the flap and using the osteotome and enucleating it. I enucleated another lesion that is most likely a residual cyst about 2 weeks ago. Again, it is supervised, but I was able to get the experience and many of my classmates have as well. That is my point. Now case closed

 

[drhobie7]

In private practice a GP should not be removing pathology unless they are prepared to deal with any possible complications ie.. recurrence, block resection, etc....

There is no general dentist in the world who is prepared to deal with block resection of the mandible. When you begin practice it'll be your choice what you want to do, however I wouldn't be surprised if you choose to refer lesions for biopsy. The legal risk is high.

I enucleated an OKC that was positioned apical to tooth #28 2 months ago. The OS on hand came by to make sure it was done correctly, but I was the one laying the flap and using the osteotome and enucleating it.

Was your treatment for the OKC the same as the residual cyst? Did you have follow up treatment for the OKC patient after the lesion was identified by histopathology? Enucleation is not the standard of care for an OKC.

 

[Sly Wolf]

Do UCLA Students get to do implants?

 

[cuneatus2]

Do UCLA Students get to do implants?

Yes

 

[shabu2]

I don't care what dental school you graduuate from, there is no way that you will gain enough experience to routinely "enucleate" OKC's or even take out thirds. You get this all from residencies, GPR, etc. With this said, you get varying experiences in school and it varies from person to person depending on interests. I highly doubt it is part of the d-school curriculum to do surgical third molar removal and block resections of mandibles for everyone. Go to UCLA if you want to specialize....no grades. Go to UOP if you want to GP....three years and EVERYONE loves it there. I had the same dilemma but ended up at Columbia. gluck.

 

[drhobie7]

Do UCLA Students get to do implants?

Placement: no
Treatment plan and restore: yes, there are plenty of cases too

 

[drhobie7]

I don't care what dental school you graduuate from, there is no way that you will gain enough experience to routinely "enucleate" OKC's or even take out thirds. You get this all from residencies, GPR, etc. With this said, you get varying experiences in school and it varies from person to person depending on interests. I highly doubt it is part of the d-school curriculum to do surgical third molar removal and block resections of mandibles for everyone. Go to UCLA if you want to specialize....no grades. Go to UOP if you want to GP....three years and EVERYONE loves it there. I had the same dilemma but ended up at Columbia. gluck.

You can go to UOP and successfully match to any specialty you want. It's an excellent school and would have been my second choice to UCLA, had staying in LA not been so important to me. Otherwise I probably would have gone to UOP.

 

[Apico]

most odontogenic keratocysts are treated similarly to other odontogenic cysts, that is, by enucleation and curettage.
(Neville, Brad Neville. Oral and Maxillofacial Pathology, 2nd Edition. Elsevier, 2002. 15.1.5.3).
<vbk:0-7216-9003-3#outline(15.1.5.3)>

When you go into remove a cyst that was approx 6-8mm in diameter you have no idea that this is a cyst in the first place. It presents as a radiolucency and the diag of a cyst, granuloma, etc comes from the histologic diag. Therefore the tx is enucleation a curettage.

I know that some surgeons like to do an ostectomy or chemical cauterization to help ensure there is no recurrence, but unless this is a recurring lesion or you can see the milky susbstance inside there is no way of knowing that is what it is. There for I dont think any OS is going to do this when you have the mental foramen a few mm away in the location I removed the cyst.

If recurrence is the case as we will be continually following up with the pt the tx will then change.

 

[Apico]

Shabu2

First of all I never said it was good idea to routinely remove OKC's etc. However it is nice to get that experience. Especially if you are going to a rural area and the people you are serving have no other option.

You are wrong about impacted 3rd's. We are required as a competency to graduate to remove them. As you know this would be a great service in private practice instead of having to refer all of them out. Now if you suspect from the radiograph that the IA may be encased by the roots or some other complicated case then yes refer it. Cone beam CT will soon be the standard of care for some procedures such as implants. Once this tech is that readily available it will not be difficult to know how complicated the case will be.

Block resections...no way..I never said that.

Implants
tx plan and restore: yes
placement: yes if you are interested in doing so

 

[drhobie7]

most odontogenic keratocysts are treated similarly to other odontogenic cysts, that is, by enucleation and curettage.
(Neville, Brad Neville. Oral and Maxillofacial Pathology, 2nd Edition. Elsevier, 2002. 15.1.5.3).
<vbk:0-7216-9003-3#outline(15.1.5.3)>

Or peripheral ostectomy. But not by enucleation alone.

 

[Apico]

yes I know that, and that is (curettage) is what was done. peripheral ostectomy is not wise in that area especially, because you don't know for sure its an OKC unless it is a recurrence or has the milky fluid.

Case closed

 

[drhobie7]

Case closed

You're funny 🙂

 

[Apico]

Thanks...good luck w/ match

 

[shabu2]

You can go to UOP and successfully match to any specialty you want. It's an excellent school and would have been my second choice to UCLA, had staying in LA not been so important to me. Otherwise I probably would have gone to UOP.

You can specialize successfully from ANY dental school, but more opportunities are available at UCLA than UOP. You should already realize this. 👍 😉

 

[Sly Wolf]

Implants
tx plan and restore: yes
placement: yes if you are interested in doing so

So UCLA students are given the opportunity to place implants if they desire to? If so That's awesome!

The more I learn about UCLA the more I love it. If only they had two half days a week

 

[drhobie7]

So UCLA students are given the opportunity to place implants if they desire to? If so That's awesome!

The more I learn about UCLA the more I love it. If only they had two half days a week

Nope. Only OMS and perio place implants at UCLA.

 

[Apico]

At UNLV you can place implants if you have the desire to

 

[icepinkish]

So UCLA students are given the opportunity to place implants if they desire to? If so That's awesome!

The more I learn about UCLA the more I love it. If only they had two half days a week

Well if you are thinking of specializing, you will most likely be spending most of your free afternoons studying anyway.

I also like UCLA more and more after learning about it, too. I have always known that UCLA is a great dental school, but I was a little disappointed with their low key interview-- no powerpoint presentations whatsoever and I thought it was because the faculty didn't care. However it seemed to be my false perception; the students all like it there and claim the faculty members to be very caring.

to OP:I would personally pick UCLA since I want to specialize, too. I enjoy being a student and do not mind being in school for another 4 years instead of 3. However you said you are 80% certain about UOP; I believe you have very good reasons of your own. If you feel you'd certainly be much happier there you should go there 🙂 . UOP is a great school, too. Good luck!

 

[bl1ndfolded]

Thank you all for your advice. It definitely does reiterate what everyone has already said: UCLA if you wanna specialize and UOP for GP.

I know UOP's curriculum may be a little more condensed since it is only 3 years, leaving little to no time to study for boards. However, I do believe that a lot of free time during the first year at UOP is spent in the lab, refining hand skills. For the past year I have been working in a dental office and have been prepping all class types of fillings and am just starting to do 7/8 crowns and stuff. I'm hoping that my background with the hand piece will leave me more time to study for boards and what not, while everyone else is in the lab. I do know that you can specialize anywhere as long as you have good board scores, grades ,referrals, etc. but it does concern me that so many people go on about the advantages of UCLA.

 

[drhobie7]

For the past year I have been working in a dental office and have been prepping all class types of fillings and am just starting to do 7/8 crowns and stuff.

Ahh the venerable 7/8ths crown. Hehe, our restorative dept. would love you. They are infatuated with partial coverage gold. I'm doing a 3/4 crown on a patient right now. Kinda neat, but definitely harder than full coverage.

FYI, whatever practice you get now with the handpiece will help you in the future. Just make sure you're doing it right. 🙂

 

[Apico]

I can tell you another good thing about UOP..UPENN endo(one of the best programs in the country..although I'm biased) takes 1 student from UOP every year..this is not by chance..they tell the UOP applicants this at their interview...again as you know it is more about how you do as to whether you'll get into a specialty or not. Good luck with your decision

 

[bl1ndfolded]

There's no way for me to know this, but didactically, UCLA is probably a lot stronger and get higher board score than UOP. Lots of pros for UCLA right there.
.

They Also Have Dr. Bibb, who is on the committee who makes the boards every year.

 

[drhobie7]

They Also Have Dr. Bibb, who is on the committee who makes the boards every year.

Dr. Bibb is a super cool lady, but I don't think the fact that she helps write board questions matters that much.

 

[Apico]

I obviously don't know who Dr. Bibb is..but I would agree with Dr.Hobie that it probably doesn't matter..as most schools have a few people on the board writing ?'s