UPenn/ Hunter - Are 1-year post-bacc programs doable?

[Haqiqa]

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I heard that UPenn's post bacc program covers basic pre-meds reqs in one year - chemistry for three months in the summer, and then physics, bio, and orgo the following year. They expect you to take calculus before entering. Has anyone done this program, or any other one-year program? I am interested in looking into it in order to save on time and money, however I don't understand how these programs are feasible. Is it humanly possible to do physics, orgo, and biology in one year, and do them well? Does this put you at a disadvantage for the MCAT because all that material has been crunched into a very short time span?

I am further confused b/c schools like Columbia appear to not let you take courses in the summer because "medical schools frown upon it".

Also, has anyone here attended Hunter's post-bacc program? (I know they are not a 1-year) How did you find it?

Thanks.

 

[drizzt3117]

Scripps program is 1 year, and while it's pretty intensive, a lot of people do end up finishing it in one year. Two semesters of General Chemistry in the first summer, followed by Bio, Organic, and Physics first semester, and Physiology, Organic, and Physics second semester... I ended up staying an extra year to take upper division and took the August MCAT.

 

[Haqiqa]

Where is scripps exactly? is it in cali? urban environment or rural?

did you feel you had enough time to study and that your course load was manageable? I would love to do a one-year post bacc, but it's not worth it if your grades suffer as a result.

 

[Lshapley]

Hey,

I am actually in the Special Science program at Penn, which is the program for people who have had some or all of the pre-reqs completed. I do take general chemistry with a lot of the people who are in the pre-health program you are considering.

From my unscientific observation, it seems that there were taking Physics, Gen Chem and Bio the first semester. Apparently, a good number of students decided that this was too much and dropped out of Physics. A good number of students do find that these three sciences together (with labs) are too much. Aside from studying, it is pretty demanding, but not impossible. My impression is that the people who are able to handle the accelerated load have had advanced science courses in high school so that it isn't all like a foreign language to them.

Also, my firsthand experience of this program is that the basic science classes are very challenging compared to my experience in undergrad. You definitely have to do all of the work not only because of the difficulty of the material but also because of the quality of your peers is higher than undergrad (you are graded on a curve, at least in gen chem).

Anyway, good luck with whatever you choose.

lee

 

[lawnboy313]

I have a friend who finished the one year Bryn Mawr post-bac program--I think they start with two semesters of genchem, bio, and physics (plus labs), followed by a summer of orgo and an August MCAT. It was a tough year for her--she had never taken any of the sciences--but she finished with a 4.0 and a 30 MCAT. At Bryn Mawr the post-bacs take separate classes but are graded on a curve with the undergrads, which usually works in their benefit.

Up here in the UConn post-bac program, they make it a touch more intense than even the typical one year programs. For the 1 year programs, you usually take 12 credits of sciences a semester (3 3-hour classes and 3 1-hour labs). My advisor is having me take 14 credits per semester (physics + lab, orgo, honors genetics, and calculus this semester) and volunteer on the weekends--it's been pretty insane. Next semester I'm taking 14 credits AND prepping for a May MCAT. So far (knock on wood) I've kept my head above water, so if I can do this, I'm sure you can handle the normal one-year load. I don't exactly recommend the intensity they keep it at up here.

Regardless, part of the point of a post-bac is to prove that you can pull a big load of sciences and do well, because that's what you'll have to do in med school. A one year program shouldn't be too overwhelming if you're gonna do well in the biochem and everything else to come in med school.

 

[Lshapley]

Yeah, the Penn program I don't think is so great for people who have not had science before. One thing is that all of the post-bacs take class together, there are no undergrads (except maybe a couple token) in the class. Therefore, the competition is more intense than some other programs. Also, some of the people in the Special Science are taking courses with the people in the pre-health program, and even retaking classes they have already had. In my case, I am doing this with General Chemistry, which I took 14 years ago, and my knowledge feels like I only had regular chem in high school. However, some of the other students have had chemistry more recently and it shows. For example, the distribution of grades on the first exam ranged from 13-100 with an average of 69. The highest distribution were the 100's (5 people out of 80). I think that pretty much sums it all up.

So, yeah, I don't personally think Penn is the best program for people who are starting from scratch.

 

[Chrissy]

I am also a pre-health/special science student at penn...I took gen bio and gen chem as an undergrad 6 years ago....this summer i took 2 upper level classes at penn and did well....now i'm taking physics and orgo...i think it is incredibly incredibly hard....The basic pre-requisite classes are exactly as the previous poster mentioned....in many post bacc programs you are either in a small class (bryn mawr as an example) or with undergrads if you do a "do it yourself" program....penn is a nice mixture of the two...and when i say nice i mean not so much....you are in a big class with ALL people who are insanely focused on one thing....many of these students have moved across the country or have taken out loans to complete this program...youy better believe they are gonna study like it....bottom line is my experience has been that most people in the prehealth program struggle....the basic reqs are very hard and curved....the upper level classes, however, are much more doable....i just dont know what happens if you dont do well in all the pre-reqs then try to make up for it with upper levels....if you are looking to fly through just the pre-reqs penn WILL be hard....it's doable, but get ready for a huge challenge.

 

[drizzt3117]

Where is scripps exactly? is it in cali? urban environment or rural?

did you feel you had enough time to study and that your course load was manageable? I would love to do a one-year post bacc, but it's not worth it if your grades suffer as a result.

Scripps is in Southern California, 30 or so miles east of LA. The courseload is manageable IMO but doing a second year and taking some upper division is a good idea IMO, although some ppl just end up taking the extra courses they need for certain med schools in the summer etc. From the 2005-2006 postbac class I believe 6 people linked to George Washington, FYI and another couple will like to Drexel for the 2007 entering class (this is out of 15 ppl) A few others applied for the 2007 class and have done well last I heard.

 

[Trismegistus4]

I heard that UPenn's post bacc program covers basic pre-meds reqs in one year - chemistry for three months in the summer, and then physics, bio, and orgo the following year. They expect you to take calculus before entering. Has anyone done this program, or any other one-year program? I am interested in looking into it in order to save on time and money, however I don't understand how these programs are feasible. Is it humanly possible to do physics, orgo, and biology in one year, and do them well? Does this put you at a disadvantage for the MCAT because all that material has been crunched into a very short time span?

I did what you are describing in the Penn program, though I didn't take Gen Chem lab since I'd already had it as an undergrad, and I postponed the organic lab until now (application year.) For me, bio with lab, physics with lab, and organic lecture only was the maximum I could handle. I did well, with mostly A's, though I didn't get that 4.0 some people around here say you MUST get in a post-bacc in order to have any chance at getting into med school. Penn's advisors don't seem to think my 2 B+'s are going to keep me out of med school, though.

Another thing I don't feel I could have done (the first being take organic lab with everything else) was prepare for and take the April MCAT. I took the August MCAT, so I had the summer to study, with the only other demand on my time being one 200-level bio class. It paid off and I got a really high MCAT score, so for me I think it was worth postponing the MCAT.

There were a few people taking all three of those courses with lab, and preparing for the April MCAT. I don't know how well they did, though. I have heard that some people lose their linkages because of that issue of having to take the April MCAT before their pre-reqs are even over.

One advantage of Penn's program is its flexibility: even though I'm technically taking more than 1 year because I postponed the organic lab, I was only unemployed for one year because with the evening lab I can work full-time again.

 

[Pemulis]

The two post-bac programs on the east coast that are generally regarded as having the highest success rates are both one year programs: Bryn Mawr and Goucher. Use the search option at the upper right part of the screen, and you'll find dozens of threads about these two programs.

I'm a Goucher alum; it is totally possible to do the coursework in one year, if your program is set up to support it.

 

[Haqiqa]

thanks so much for all this feedback. i really appreciate it.

so is it possible to study for MCATS while you are still doing pre req classes? don't you need like 6 months to study for the MCATS? Or is it advisable to start studying once you are done with pre reqs. Sorry for the dumb questions, but this is all new territory for me!

 

[Haqiqa]

Hey trismegisus -

Because you took the August MCAT, that means that you will be entering med school in 2008? So the key difference between getting applications in for the following year is to take the April MCAT as opposed to the August MCAT?

thanks

 

[Pemulis]

thanks so much for all this feedback. i really appreciate it.

so is it possible to study for MCATS while you are still doing pre req classes? don't you need like 6 months to study for the MCATS? Or is it advisable to start studying once you are done with pre reqs. Sorry for the dumb questions, but this is all new territory for me!

I can only speak from my personal experience, but at Goucher, we studied for the MCAT's throughout our spring semester. Because we were either taking or had recently taken all of the pre-req's, most of the material was still pretty fresh in our heads. For most people, MCAT study came down to doing maybe an hour of Excamkracker's reading/practice questions a day, plus taking a full-length practice MCAT every Saturday for about six weeks leading up to the test. This was certainly a pain, given that we were simultaneously taking three courses, but it was by no means impossible. My class did REALLY well on the MCAT, so I think it's safe to say that this system worked, although I should point out that part of the reason for this is probably that Goucher looks for people with a history of performing well on standardized exams as part of their admissions process.

As the above demonstrates, it's certainly POSSIBLE to take three courses and adequately prep for the MCAT, but a lot of it is going to have to do with how the program you are in is set up. Your best bet is really to talk with people at the programs you are looking at. Find out how successful they've been in the past with students doing the one-year route.

 

[Trismegistus4]

Hey trismegisus -

Because you took the August MCAT, that means that you will be entering med school in 2008? So the key difference between getting applications in for the following year is to take the April MCAT as opposed to the August MCAT?

thanks

Not unless you think applying to start the year after you've taken the August MCAT is the kiss of death. If all goes well, I will be starting med school in 2007.

 

[Bearferret]

My class did REALLY well on the MCAT, so I think it's safe to say that this system worked, although I should point out that part of the reason for this is probably that Goucher looks for people with a history of performing well on standardized exams as part of their admissions process.

Is past performance on standardized tests really that good an indicator of MCAT success? Most standardized tests you take before the MCAT are more about problem-solving skills than content (I should know, I teach them for a living). The MCAT, on the other hand, is highly content-oriented.

Here's hoping the answer to my question is yes.