UPenn-Presbyterian Residency

[PharmD/DPM]

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I'm a 3rd year Scholl student and I'm very interested in the Penn-Presbyterian program in Philadelphia, can anyone give me any insight or information on this 4 year PM&S-36 residency? Does anyone know or heard anything about it? Thanks.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

I don't know much about this program but I have not heard great this about the 4 year PM&S 36. From what I've been told they get about the same number of cases but they stretch them out over 4 years. Therefore, you could either do a fellowship or start practicing in that amount of time.

As for Penn-Presby, they do have a 1 year fellowship in podiatric research. Maybe the 4 years includes that?

 

[dpmgrad]

I'm a 3rd year Scholl student and I'm very interested in the Penn-Presbyterian program in Philadelphia, can anyone give me any insight or information on this 4 year PM&S-36 residency? Does anyone know or heard anything about it? Thanks.

Penn Presbyterian program is one of the two 4 years Podiatric Sugical Residency programs in the country. Penn Presbyterian have converted over to the PM&S-36 but is still a 4 year program. The last year is NOT a fellowship year. They are a well rounded program where you see everything from forefoot to reconstructive rearfoot surgery. It is also a very academic program. After all, the Presbyterian Manual was produced by this residency program. They do have some great attendings at the program as well. Dr. Michael Downey and Dr. Scott Malay are great teachers.

As for numbers in the program, I have been told that they have problems getting their forefoot numbers. However, things may have been changed now for the better. If you are interested in the residency program, I do highly recommend that you should do an externship at the residency program. This will allow you to learn more about the residency program. In the past, they have taken some non TUSPM students. If you have any other questions about Penn Presbyterian, feel free to PM me. I know most of the residents and attendings there.

 

[Podman]

Penn Presbyterian program is one of the two 4 years Podiatric Sugical Residency programs in the country. Penn Presbyterian have converted over to the PM&S-36 but is still a 4 year program. The last year is NOT a fellowship year. They are a well rounded program where you see everything from forefoot to reconstructive rearfoot surgery. It is also a very academic program. After all, the Presbyterian Manual was produced by this residency program. They do have some great attendings at the program as well. Dr. Michael Downey and Dr. Scott Malay are great teachers.

As for numbers in the program, I have been told that they have problems getting their forefoot numbers. However, things may have been changed now for the better. If you are interested in the residency program, I do highly recommend that you should do an externship at the residency program. This will allow you to learn more about the residency program. In the past, they have taken some non TUSPM students. If you have any other questions about Penn Presbyterian, feel free to PM me. I know most of the residents and attendings there.

Hey dpmgrad, I think St. Barnabas (Bronx) is also a 4 yr PM&S 36. I got the chance to speak with their director - it seems very demanding in terms of the hours and the on-calls, and the fact that it is a level I trauma - but i'm very tempted to make the trip and pay them a visit. Have you heard much about that program?

 

[dpmgrad]

Hey dpmgrad, I think St. Barnabas (Bronx) is also a 4 yr PM&S 36. I got the chance to speak with their director - it seems very demanding in terms of the hours and the on-calls, and the fact that it is a level I trauma - but i'm very tempted to make the trip and pay them a visit. Have you heard much about that program?

Thank you for correcting me. In fact, another 4 year program is the Wyckoff Heights PM&S-36 program in New York. As for the St. Barnabas program in the Bronx, it is a pretty busy program and also work a great deal with Orthopedic Surgeons there. Being that it is in not a very nice part of Bronx, you will be busy with trauma. I have heard mixed things about the program. Perhaps, krabmas can comment further about the program since more NYCPM students are interested in that program. I would recommend you visiting the program so that you can learn more about it.

 

[krabmas]

Thank you for correcting me. In fact, another 4 year program is the Wyckoff Heights PM&S-36 program in New York. As for the St. Barnabas program in the Bronx, it is a pretty busy program and also work a great deal with Orthopedic Surgeons there. Being that it is in not a very nice part of Bronx, you will be busy with trauma. I have heard mixed things about the program. Perhaps, krabmas can comment further about the program since more NYCPM students are interested in that program. I would recommend you visiting the program so that you can learn more about it.

thanks for recommending my expertise but I know nothing about NY programs since I do not want to stay in NY. Yes many NY students go to these programs but I cannot keep them straight and all the names sound the same to me. Lots of Saints.

 

[PharmD/DPM]

Thanks for the info dpmgrad. Actually, I will be externing at Penn Presbyterian in April later this school year. I'm looking forward to it.

 

[Podman]

Thank you for correcting me. In fact, another 4 year program is the Wyckoff Heights PM&S-36 program in New York. As for the St. Barnabas program in the Bronx, it is a pretty busy program and also work a great deal with Orthopedic Surgeons there. Being that it is in not a very nice part of Bronx, you will be busy with trauma. I have heard mixed things about the program. Perhaps, krabmas can comment further about the program since more NYCPM students are interested in that program. I would recommend you visiting the program so that you can learn more about it.

thanks for the info dpmgrad...

btw, have u decided when u would start the fellowship in switzerland 🙂 ?

 

[cool_vkb]

thanks for the info dpmgrad...

btw, have u decided when u would start the fellowship in switzerland 🙂 ?

We have a fellowship in Switzerland? Wow! i heard there was one in russia. can u elaborate what other countries we have fellowships. and do u still operate in the same scope of practice as of USA or u can do things with greater autonomy in foreign countries.

cud u be able to practice podiatry there suppose if u wanna stay there or fell in love with a cute swiss gal and wanna stay there. 😍

 

[Podman]

We have a fellowship in Switzerland? Wow! i heard there was one in russia. can u elaborate what other countries we have fellowships. and do u still operate in the same scope of practice as of USA or u can do things with greater autonomy in foreign countries.

cud u be able to practice podiatry there suppose if u wanna stay there or fell in love with a cute swiss gal and wanna stay there. 😍

no, those are orthopedic foot and ankle fellowships and I don't think we can practice podiatry over there - its an educational opportunity to further advance your training.

In terms of locations, I don't know all of them perse but I know a DPM from my school who completed a fellowship in Italy.

 

[dpmgrad]

We have a fellowship in Switzerland? Wow! i heard there was one in russia. can u elaborate what other countries we have fellowships. and do u still operate in the same scope of practice as of USA or u can do things with greater autonomy in foreign countries.

cud u be able to practice podiatry there suppose if u wanna stay there or fell in love with a cute swiss gal and wanna stay there. 😍

The purpose of these short term fellowship is to allow for the DPMs to get some additional training in other aspects of reconstructive foot and ankle surgery and foot and ankle trauma surgery. These are strictly educational opportunites, as Podman had pointed out in his posting. We are not there to function as a Podiatric surgeons in these fellowships. Over the next few years, I am sure that there will be more short term fellowship opportunities.

Currently, there a couple of short term fellowship opportunites for DPMs (in last year of residency training or after completion of residency training). One is the Kurgan Ilizarov Mini-Fellowship in Kurgan, Russia. One can apply for this fellowship either through ACFAS or Smith Nephew directly. Another fellowship opportunity will be the AO/ASIF Trauma Fellowship. One can do the AO/ASIF fellowship in the US, Austrailia, Austria, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Chile, China, Colombia, France, Germany, Great Britain, Hong Kong, Israel, Italy, Mexico, New Zealand, Singapore, Spain, Switzerland, Thailand. AO/ASIF attempts to place DPMs in sites where there are a lot of foot and ankle trauma and reconstructive surgery. There are some other fellowship opportunites for DPM in Italy (sponsored by SBi and ? Orthofix) and Greece.

 

[dpmgrad]

thanks for the info dpmgrad...

btw, have u decided when u would start the fellowship in switzerland 🙂 ?

I will be doing my AO/ASIF fellowship in Switzerland from Jan 2007 - Feb 2007 with Dr. Kaj Klaue.

 

[dpmgrad]

thanks for recommending my expertise but I know nothing about NY programs since I do not want to stay in NY. Yes many NY students go to these programs but I cannot keep them straight and all the names sound the same to me. Lots of Saints.

You had mentioned to me before that you were not considering any of the programs in NY. Sorry about that. How are your externships coming along?

 

[cool_vkb]

The purpose of these short term fellowship is to allow for the DPMs to get some additional training in other aspects of reconstructive foot and ankle surgery and foot and ankle trauma surgery. These are strictly educational opportunites, as Podman had pointed out in his posting. We are not there to function as a Podiatric surgeons in these fellowships. Over the next few years, I am sure that there will be more short term fellowship opportunities.

Currently, there a couple of short term fellowship opportunites for DPMs (in last year of residency training or after completion of residency training). One is the Kurgan Ilizarov Mini-Fellowship in Kurgan, Russia. One can apply for this fellowship either through ACFAS or Smith Nephew directly. Another fellowship opportunity will be the AO/ASIF Trauma Fellowship. One can do the AO/ASIF fellowship in the US, Austrailia, Austria, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Chile, China, Colombia, France, Germany, Great Britain, Hong Kong, Israel, Italy, Mexico, New Zealand, Singapore, Spain, Switzerland, Thailand. AO/ASIF attempts to place DPMs in sites where there are a lot of foot and ankle trauma and reconstructive surgery. There are some other fellowship opportunites for DPM in Italy (sponsored by SBi and ? Orthofix) and Greece.

Sir, but a does a profession called PODIATRY exists in these countries. i mean leave these fellowships aside. Are there any native podiatrists in these countries doing practice. Iam just curious.

 

[dpmgrad]

Sir, but a does a profession called PODIATRY exists in these countries. i mean leave these fellowships aside. Are there any native podiatrists in these countries doing practice. Iam just curious.

I know that Podiatry exists in some of these countries (Great Britain, Austrailia, and Italy). However, Podiatrist in these countries usually do very limited amount of surgery, if they do any surgery at all. Most of these Podiatrist still does conservative management of the foot and ankle ailments. In Canada, it depends on where the Podiatrist is practicing.

For these fellowships, we are going to be trained by Orthopedic Surgeons or Foot and Ankle Orthopedic Surgeons The Kurgan Fellowship and AO/ASIF Fellowships were designed for Orthopedic Surgeons and Trauma Surgeons. Over time, these fellowship opportunities were extended to the DPM community.

 

[cool_vkb]

I know that Podiatry exists in some of these countries (Great Britain, Austrailia, and Italy). However, Podiatrist in these countries usually do very limited amount of surgery, if they do any surgery at all. Most of these Podiatrist still does conservative management of the foot and ankle ailments. In Canada, it depends on where the Podiatrist is practicing.

For these fellowships, we are going to be trained by Orthopedic Surgeons or Foot and Ankle Orthopedic Surgeons The Kurgan Fellowship and AO/ASIF Fellowships were designed for Orthopedic Surgeons and Trauma Surgeons. Over time, these fellowship opportunities were extended to the DPM community.

Ok Sir, now i get it. thank you.

Thanks man i really appreciate your and jonwills kindness and genorisity. i know u guys r already in practice yet you take out some time from ur schedule to answer our questions. thank you for that and may god bless u guys.

 

[krabmas]

You had mentioned to me before that you were not considering any of the programs in NY. Sorry about that. How are your externships coming along?

I am at my last one in NJ (UMDNJ) and have a few places to visit.

 

[dpmgrad]

I am at my last one in NJ (UMDNJ) and have a few places to visit.

Cool, you are almost done with your externship. I am sure that UMDNJ is keeping you busy. Are you planning to go to EAST CRIP besides CENTRAL CRIP? If so, feel free to drop by and say hi since I will be going to EAST CRIP for my residency program's interviews.

 

[cool_vkb]

If so, feel free to drop by and say hi since I will be going to EAST CRIP for my residency program's interviews.

i thought u r already in practice! what do u mean u have to go for "residency interview".

 

[dpmgrad]

i thought u r already in practice! what do u mean u have to go for "residency interview".

Yes, I am already in practice. However, I am also a faculty for my residency program now as well. I will be going to EAST CRIP along with the residency director and other program faculty to interview prospective students for my residency program.

 

[cool_vkb]

Yes, I am already in practice. However, I am also a faculty for my residency program now as well. I will be going to EAST CRIP along with the residency director and other program faculty to interview prospective students for my residency program.

wow tats gr8.

 

[krabmas]

Cool, you are almost done with your externship. I am sure that UMDNJ is keeping you busy. Are you planning to go to EAST CRIP besides CENTRAL CRIP? If so, feel free to drop by and say hi since I will be going to EAST CRIP for my residency program's interviews.

I'll be at east also. for sure I'll stop by.

 

[presby]

Hello, I am currently the chief resident at Presby and can answer any questions you may have about the program. We are a 4 year program (the original/1st 4 year program) for our training experience, not for podiatric surgery numbers. We have always prided ourselves as being a rigorously academic program. Our foot/ankle/lower leg surgical numbers are probably comparable with those of other aggressive surgical programs that include full foot/ankle/lower leg cases (I'm not sure what other program's numbers are for sure) but our program does much more primary medical management of our own patients (we admit to our service) and spend more time on outside rotations especially regarding surgical services that are not ortho/podiatry (i.e. 3 months general surgery, 3 months vascular surgery and hand/plastics...). We get primary call on all foot/ankle/lower leg trauma from our ED - We have earned this by responding quickly to all calls and treating everything they send us from tinea/ingrown nails to major trauma. We take IN-HOUSE call 24 hours a day every day. We do not scrub foot/ankle cases with ortho as we have enough cases from our attendings. No one has had problems with numbers as of yet nor with passing forefoot and rearfoot boards on 1st attempt. We will continue to be a 4 year program to insure the integrity of the program and the complete experience, not because we are short on numbers. We do a good mix of everything surgically up to tibial tuberosity and value/respect our attendings' experience greatly. We have an open door policy regarding visiting/externing and I encourage if you are considering this residency, you are HIGHLY advised to visit. We don't set quotas on who we take/don't take and every year the selection is comparative based on the students available. Our interview involves an academic portion, a social (mixer), and a formal social interview by all attendings and residents. Please let me know if you have questions/concerns. The best way to reach us is the on-call pager which the intern carries. Hope this is helpful.

 

[whiskers]

Hello, I am currently the chief resident at Presby and can answer any questions you may have about the program. We are a 4 year program (the original/1st 4 year program) for our training experience, not for podiatric surgery numbers. We have always prided ourselves as being a rigorously academic program. Our foot/ankle/lower leg surgical numbers are probably comparable with those of other aggressive surgical programs that include full foot/ankle/lower leg cases (I'm not sure what other program's numbers are for sure) but our program does much more primary medical management of our own patients (we admit to our service) and spend more time on outside rotations especially regarding surgical services that are not ortho/podiatry (i.e. 3 months general surgery, 3 months vascular surgery and hand/plastics...). We get primary call on all foot/ankle/lower leg trauma from our ED - We have earned this by responding quickly to all calls and treating everything they send us from tinea/ingrown nails to major trauma. We take IN-HOUSE call 24 hours a day every day. We do not scrub foot/ankle cases with ortho as we have enough cases from our attendings. No one has had problems with numbers as of yet nor with passing forefoot and rearfoot boards on 1st attempt. We will continue to be a 4 year program to insure the integrity of the program and the complete experience, not because we are short on numbers. We do a good mix of everything surgically up to tibial tuberosity and value/respect our attendings' experience greatly. We have an open door policy regarding visiting/externing and I encourage if you are considering this residency, you are HIGHLY advised to visit. We don't set quotas on who we take/don't take and every year the selection is comparative based on the students available. Our interview involves an academic portion, a social (mixer), and a formal social interview by all attendings and residents. Please let me know if you have questions/concerns. The best way to reach us is the on-call pager which the intern carries. Hope this is helpful.

"One must tame the inner Id in order to experience the Super Ego's delight; so long as the Super Ego does not become a tyrant in it's own right leading to unjust guilt of a shamed character overwhelmed by nefarious guilt. Thank-you, Ego...my mediator and my dearest friend."

I was curiously struck by your use of "you" "we" and "our" instead of "I," "me," "my," "mine" indicating that behind this post is a poster who seemingly is cognizant that other beings in the universe do exist.

Although I am not intimately aware of your program, I have a deeper sense of it's refreshing quality I call "team work."

Thanks for the info.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Hello, I am currently the chief resident at Presby and can answer any questions you may have about the program. We are a 4 year program (the original/1st 4 year program) for our training experience, not for podiatric surgery numbers. We have always prided ourselves as being a rigorously academic program. Our foot/ankle/lower leg surgical numbers are probably comparable with those of other aggressive surgical programs that include full foot/ankle/lower leg cases (I'm not sure what other program's numbers are for sure) but our program does much more primary medical management of our own patients (we admit to our service) and spend more time on outside rotations especially regarding surgical services that are not ortho/podiatry (i.e. 3 months general surgery, 3 months vascular surgery and hand/plastics...). We get primary call on all foot/ankle/lower leg trauma from our ED - We have earned this by responding quickly to all calls and treating everything they send us from tinea/ingrown nails to major trauma. We take IN-HOUSE call 24 hours a day every day. We do not scrub foot/ankle cases with ortho as we have enough cases from our attendings. No one has had problems with numbers as of yet nor with passing forefoot and rearfoot boards on 1st attempt. We will continue to be a 4 year program to insure the integrity of the program and the complete experience, not because we are short on numbers. We do a good mix of everything surgically up to tibial tuberosity and value/respect our attendings' experience greatly. We have an open door policy regarding visiting/externing and I encourage if you are considering this residency, you are HIGHLY advised to visit. We don't set quotas on who we take/don't take and every year the selection is comparative based on the students available. Our interview involves an academic portion, a social (mixer), and a formal social interview by all attendings and residents. Please let me know if you have questions/concerns. The best way to reach us is the on-call pager which the intern carries. Hope this is helpful.

What were your numbers last year?

 

[whynotfeet?]

Just heard from a resident in Philly that a 1st year at Presby. Is a single mother of two(which I do not have a problem with, so don't boo me), who hasn't passed her boards yet? How is someone practicing without a license?

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

😕

Which part of boards I, II, or both???

 

[whynotfeet?]

Hello Feelgood. Can't comment on Boards 1 and 2. EIther way step 3 is not passed. Those of you(including me) who like facts and not gossip:

Call hospital get name of 1st year res.

Follow this link to verify license in PA http://www.licensepa.state.pa.us/default.asp?bpoaNav=|

 

[jonwill]

Hello Feelgood. Can't comment on Boards 1 and 2. EIther way step 3 is not passed. Those of you(including me) who like facts and not gossip:

Call hospital get name of 1st year res.

Follow this link to verify license in PA http://www.licensepa.state.pa.us/default.asp?bpoaNav=|

In Penn, I don't think that you can practice without passing part III. I have some friends at West Penn and they all had to take and pass part III before starting there. I'm not sure if this was a residency policy or state law.

DPMGrad works in Penn doesn't he?

 

[dpmgrad]

In Penn, I don't think that you can practice without passing part III. I have some friends at West Penn and they all had to take and pass part III before starting there. I'm not sure if this was a residency policy or state law.

DPMGrad works in Penn doesn't he?

In Pennsylvania, the residents must obtain the Pennsylvania Professional State License, in order to obtain medical malpractice insurance during the residency training. Pennsylvania state bylaws require all Podiatrists to pass PMLexis (NBPME Part 3) in order to obtain the Professional State License. The only exception to this rule will be the residents that are in a VA Podiatry residency program. Since the VA hospital are federally run, residents in the Pennsylvania VA hospitals have until the end of their first year of their residency training to take and pass the PMLexis. Majority of the Pennsylvania hospitals will not let the residents start their residency training until they have passed the PMLexis. The reason for this is that the hospital faces a huge liability when they have a resident providing patient care without medical malpractice insurance. However, there are a few hospitals that may let a resident start without medical malpractice insurance by having the resident rotate through rotations that have very little patient contact, such as Radiology and Pathology, while the resident is waiting to take the December administration of the PMLexis.

 

[whynotfeet?]

Just curious, what happens if they don't pass Dec. boards? Are you guys forced to cancel contract or are you still able to "wing-it" for another 6mos. We don't have this problem in NYC b/c we are not licensed. Instead we are issued residency permits which are "temporary licenses". After our 1st year most residents take boards and get full license but I have met some who just renew permit.

 

[dpmgrad]

Just curious, what happens if they don't pass Dec. boards? Are you guys forced to cancel contract or are you still able to "wing-it" for another 6mos. We don't have this problem in NYC b/c we are not licensed. Instead we are issued residency permits which are "temporary licenses". After our 1st year most residents take boards and get full license but I have met some who just renew permit.

I think that this will depend on each individual hospital. I know that majority of the hospitals in Pennsylvania (including my hospital) will not allow the resident to even start the residency training without passing the PMLexis and obtaining the state license. For the few hospital that allow the residents start without passing the PMLexis in June, I would assume that they would probably end up firing the resident if he/she does not pass the December administration of PMLexis. However, I had heard of one or two hospitals that managed to let the resident stay on for the whole year without the PMLexis in the past.

When I was a resident in Pennsylvania, I thought that it was a stupid requirement in Pennsylvania to require all starting residents to take and pass the PMLexis prior to starting the residency training. If the resident did not pass, it would screw a new graduate out of a residency program and the residency program would be inconveniently be short of a first year resident. Now that I am practicing in Pennsylvania, I discovered that the PMLexis requirement does give the residency program another national assessment tool to help determine level of academic and clinical competency of the entering first year resident. The reason why I included clinical competency is that the PMLexis has a series of cases where the test taker must make some clinical decision making. There are also a few states, such as Texas, that also require the new graduate take the PMLexis prior to the start of residency training. In states that don't require the incoming resident to take the PMLexis until end of the first year residency training, some of the residency programs are requiring the incoming resident to take and pass the PMLexis at the start of the residency training. For example, I know that the residency director at Grant Medical Center in Columbus, OH requires the first year residents to take and expect to pass the PMLexis at the start of the residency training.

 

[whynotfeet?]

Excellant post DpmGrad. Very informative about PA politics.