upenn taking only ece now?

[godbless]

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hi ,
did anyone notice on the upenn website that they r gonna take only ece gpa now?
what happens to those of us like me who hav a low ece gpa?no future for us??????this yr upenn was the only place to invite me for an interview coz they used to take wes gpa................now what?even if i improve my score, what ia the future with low ece gpa?

 

[JAKE.]

I feel the future for you with a low GPA does not look that great.

As the competition begins to increase your chances will begin to decrease.

I am not sure how important a GPA is but I am guessing it carries a significant amout of weight is some schools.

There are however other schools you can apply for if you have a great Part 1 score which should give you a better chance. A lot of it has to do with luck as well as there have been others who have been successful with lower scores.

One of the posts by rahmed was very good where he stated that he feels that it is difficult to gauge criteria.....it seems to vary significantly from school to school and from year to year.....read it.

Good Luck!

 

[dentistreee]

Some schools in India have no full time faculty , and the schools run with staff mainly on a visiting basis , and the students are given high internal averages at random without conducting examinations... and ofcourse they will be getting great gpa when evaluated here in u.s.
On the contrary students who study in well reputated and strict schools ,going through all the examinations are not scoring as good as the above ones.
Does the evaluation services know about these facts...Definitely not.
They just evaluate the marks obtained from the Universities and I dont blame them too..
I am sure many guys have been putting all their efforts and hard work and now though they score good percentile in Board Exams , they are not guaranteed any admissions,just because of GPA ,

I think the evaluations should be based on the reputation of the schools in a particular country ,the time of completion of the dental programs ,both of which are again very difficult to assess.

Finally,Let the schools think that a person with low G.P.A is not competitive in the program and the one with high G.P.A will be an excellent student considering the above facts.
I think that selecting a student on the basis of the exams conducted by the boards should be the only priority and all other ways of assessing should be determined secondary.
In summary, It will be great, if much weightage is given to the NBDE scores other than looking for the GPA .
This is just my view and I will be glad if any school administration looks into it and work with the reality ....

hi ,
did anyone notice on the upenn website that they r gonna take only ece gpa now?
what happens to those of us like me who hav a low ece gpa?no future for us??????this yr upenn was the only place to invite me for an interview coz they used to take wes gpa................now what?even if i improve my score, what ia the future with low ece gpa?

 

[godbless]

hi

 

[NileBDS]

this should be brought to the notice of the dental schools exercising discrimination based on the ece gpa,
ece gpa can be manipulated rather coz we send only photocopies of our marksheets to them ,whereas wes gpa cant be manipulated coz they request direct transcripts from our dental school. so wes is more authentic, why cant dental schools see that?
ece gives lower gpa to people with more number of attempts, while wes recognises the improvement made by a person and values the end result, why cant somone who has improved be given a chance?why should one failure in one exam shadow future career options?why should a person pay all life for one failure in colg??????even if he/she secures good marks later in the same subject and in the national boards too?isnt it unfair? there can be some personal problems, some unfavourable circumstances that led to one failure once in life.........why should we not be given a chance to come out of it?

Hey Godbless.
I agree and disagree.
I mean, you (and this thread) are giving (oversea/international) GPA's way more credit than they deserve.
From my point of view, the only thing correlating high GPA's to acceptance into advanced standing programs, is high boards scores. It is logical that people with high GPA’s will achieve high scores on their board exams, however that does not mean that both of those factors were influential in his/her acceptance decision. When you hear of someone getting acceptance anywhere, YOU are the one to ask right away, "Well what was there GPA? Was it ECE or WES?”.
Do you see my point? It is all in your head. Psychology.
No schools that I know of, among the 25 or more schools offering advanced standing programs, place any restrictions whatsoever on GPA’s. All they ask for is a good NBDE score, experience and so forth.
If you know of a school which has advertised that it will not be accepting GPAs below 3.0 even for this year, let me know. I would like to know.
I have pointed out before, and you have agreed, a previous applicant was accepted somewhere (I think UPENN) with a 2.1 or 2.2 ECE GPA. That is a BARE pass. 2.0 is the borderline. 2.4 was the minimum pass at my school, but anyways, you get my point.

Please do not let your GPA hold you back. Do not relate most of the rejections you have received to your GPA.

If I may give you an example, it's like someone with a cosmetic defect of any sort. Whenever anyone is looking their way, they ASSUME that this person is starring at their imperfection, when that is not always the case.
Now about the ECE thing, I think they have their ways of verifying your records, even better than you think. Although I can not personally claim to know their reasoning behind giving some doctors lower GPA's than other evaluators as WES.
Just a small piece of information; there are tens if not hundreds of legitimate licensed evaluators in the US. I am sure and can say based on experience that you will get a different score from each and every one of them.
Moreover, you can see, and will continue to see in the future, many schools switching to ECE reports only. I think that sends a clear message that they are confident that ECE has the most reasonable standards when it comes to professional evaluations.

In conclusion, do your best. If you need to improve your GPA, for your personal reasoning’s, you may still do that if you wish. All you need to do is go to a college/community college and take some extra credits/courses which many dental schools would be happy to recommend.
Good Luck.

 

[b'lore]

In conclusion, do your best. If you need to improve your GPA, for your personal reasoning’s, you may still do that if you wish. All you need to do is go to a college/community college and take some extra credits/courses which many dental schools would be happy to recommend.
Good Luck.[/QUOTE]


hi all,
even i was under impression till yesterday that WES is valid by UPENN atleast..seems all the schools are shifting to ECE slowly..even i ahve a very very low GPA from ECE.when i spoke to an ECE evaluator around 3,4 months back regarding improvization of my GPA by doing some credits here,he told me that it isn't possible for them to evaluate the credits done here, in US,as ECE evaluates only foreign credentials...thats what i have been told..if someone has got their GPA increased after doing some courses here,please let us know..it would be helpful to some of us..
also,i have one more quick question..after how many months or years can we reapply to ECE from the first time we got the GPA done from them?
-thanks in advace,
b'lore.

 

[godbless]

Hey Godbless.
I agree and disagree.
I mean, you (and this thread) are giving (oversea/international) GPA's way more credit than they deserve.
From my point of view, the only thing correlating high GPA's to acceptance into advanced standing programs, is high boards scores. It is logical that people with high GPA's will achieve high scores on their board exams, however that does not mean that both of those factors were influential in his/her acceptance decision. When you hear of someone getting acceptance anywhere, YOU are the one to ask right away, "Well what was there GPA? Was it ECE or WES?".
Do you see my point? It is all in your head. Psychology.
No schools that I know of, among the 25 or more schools offering advanced standing programs, place any restrictions whatsoever on GPA's. All they ask for is a good NBDE score, experience and so forth.
If you know of a school which has advertised that it will not be accepting GPAs below 3.0 even for this year, let me know. I would like to know.
I have pointed out before, and you have agreed, a previous applicant was accepted somewhere (I think UPENN) with a 2.1 or 2.2 ECE GPA. That is a BARE pass. 2.0 is the borderline. 2.4 was the minimum pass at my school, but anyways, you get my point.

Please do not let your GPA hold you back. Do not relate most of the rejections you have received to your GPA.

If I may give you an example, it's like someone with a cosmetic defect of any sort. Whenever anyone is looking their way, they ASSUME that this person is starring at their imperfection, when that is not always the case.
Now about the ECE thing, I think they have their ways of verifying your records, even better than you think. Although I can not personally claim to know their reasoning behind giving some doctors lower GPA's than other evaluators as WES.
Just a small piece of information; there are tens if not hundreds of legitimate licensed evaluators in the US. I am sure and can say based on experience that you will get a different score from each and every one of them.
Moreover, you can see, and will continue to see in the future, many schools switching to ECE reports only. I think that sends a clear message that they are confident that ECE has the most reasonable standards when it comes to professional evaluations.

In conclusion, do your best. If you need to improve your GPA, for your personal reasoning's, you may still do that if you wish. All you need to do is go to a college/community college and take some extra credits/courses which many dental schools would be happy to recommend.
Good Luck.

hi

 

[godbless]

hi
.

 

[NileBDS]

hi nile,
to answer your qs precisely, the schools asking for an over 3 ECE gpa directly, NYU , TEMPLE.......NYU tells that over the phone, n TEMPLE has it on theri website.BU wants high gpa, gives priority to over 3 gpa, but is nt a restriction.

That's why I asked you specifically for schools that "advertise" gpa restrictions. The people at NYU answering the phones can say what they want, but it is the adcom which makes the decisions. They are the ones who post the requirements, and if they needed a 3.0 gpa and a %90 part I, they would have said it out loud.
Here is what it says on temples website, and I am quoting them.

"Advanced Standing
Temple University School of Dentistry offers advanced standing for the internationally trained dentist who seeks to practice dentistry in the United States. Admission to Advanced Standing is highly selective and can occur only if positions are available in the third year class. Selection factors include academic record, National Board Parts I and II scores, a comprehensive pre-clinical skills evaluation conducted by the faculty, and a personal interview. Those advanced-standing applicants offered admission will enter the third year of the curriculum. Upon completion of the graduation requirements, the student will receive a Doctor of Dental Medicine (DMD) degree. Applications for the Advanced Standing Program are available from the Admissions Office."

not everyone is lucky to get in a school with a score of 81, like you, god bless you......

I feel sorry for you, that you think all the hard work I put in for the last 3 years and efforts at interviews and waiting lists, amounts to "luck". You seem to be missing the point. The adcom does not pull names out of a hat or lottery bowl for admissions.

thanks for your encouragement, but i will not consider gonig to college to improve my gpa, coz i dunt have time to waste.

If you consider investing in your own future and career a waste of time, then I can not help you beyond this point.
I have seen people serious enough, at NYU mind you, taking additional courses to improve their gpa and getting admission later on. But again, they did not see it as a waste of time.
Good luck.

 

[godbless]

That's why I asked you specifically for schools that "advertise" gpa restrictions. The people at NYU answering the phones can say what they want, but it is the adcom which makes the decisions. They are the ones who post the requirements, and if they needed a 3.0 gpa and a %90 part I, they would have said it out loud.
Here is what it says on temples website, and I am quoting them.

"Advanced Standing
Temple University School of Dentistry offers advanced standing for the internationally trained dentist who seeks to practice dentistry in the United States. Admission to Advanced Standing is highly selective and can occur only if positions are available in the third year class. Selection factors include academic record, National Board Parts I and II scores, a comprehensive pre-clinical skills evaluation conducted by the faculty, and a personal interview. Those advanced-standing applicants offered admission will enter the third year of the curriculum. Upon completion of the graduation requirements, the student will receive a Doctor of Dental Medicine (DMD) degree. Applications for the Advanced Standing Program are available from the Admissions Office."


I feel sorry for you, that you think all the hard work I put in for the last 3 years and efforts at interviews and waiting lists, amounts to "luck". You seem to be missing the point. The adcom does not pull names out of a hat or lottery bowl for admissions.


If you consider investing in your own future and career a waste of time, then I can not help you beyond this point.
I have seen people serious enough, at NYU mind you, taking additional courses to improve their gpa and getting admission later on. But again, they did not see it as a waste of time.
Good luck.

hi

 

[cubabella]

Why don't you apply to other schools? like Californian schools. You should try something different. Instead of those schools that you mentioned it, try to apply to others. Don't care about your gpa, I saw a lot of people that have been accepted with low GPAs in Californian schools and also in NYU.
Just be confident.
I think there are schools looking for a whole package and not just GPAs.
Take care and be more positive,
God bless you and good luck!

 

[g3k]

hi nile,
if you download the application at temple, it says ece gpa wanted above 3.0......
my circumstances do not permit me to take additional courses to improve gpa n then go to dental school.circumstances vary.and u r surely lucky to get in with 81, do not underrate that, thank god........

I know your post is to Nile. But you must realize that we have approximately 20 schools to apply to. You are picking 2 schools out of the 20 schools and blaming them. Why don't you look at the other 15? Look at the glass half full, not half empty. I understand your frustration. But you must realize that the ECE have gone through all this before becoming official credential evaluators for literally all the schools (not just dental but all) in the US. If you have a problem in your specific case talk to ECE and tell them you want to know how it has been calculated.
If nothing works get a DA job. Improve other aspects of your application any and every way you can. Be determined not desparate. Good luck.

 

[Dent tex]

Hey I really appreciate your advice but since I am in godbless shoes I can understand the situation better. the schools which has majority of seats are BU, NYU and Upenn where they consider only ECE and the remaining schools where you mentioned such as california schools require clinical exam's bcoz it's been quite a while being away from clinical practice so our chances of getting admissions are actually very slim. hope you guy's see what i mean.

I know your post is to Nile. But you must realize that we have approximately 20 schools to apply to. You are picking 2 schools out of the 20 schools and blaming them. Why don't you look at the other 15? Look at the glass half full, not half empty. I understand your frustration. But you must realize that the ECE have gone through all this before becoming official credential evaluators for literally all the schools (not just dental but all) in the US. If you have a problem in your specific case talk to ECE and tell them you want to know how it has been calculated.
If nothing works get a DA job. Improve other aspects of your application any and every way you can. Be determined not desparate. Good luck.

 

[godbless]

I know your post is to Nile. But you must realize that we have approximately 20 schools to apply to. You are picking 2 schools out of the 20 schools and blaming them. Why don't you look at the other 15? Look at the glass half full, not half empty. I understand your frustration. But you must realize that the ECE have gone through all this before becoming official credential evaluators for literally all the schools (not just dental but all) in the US. If you have a problem in your specific case talk to ECE and tell them you want to know how it has been calculated.
If nothing works get a DA job. Improve other aspects of your application any and every way you can. Be determined not desparate. Good luck.

hi,

 

[tiyakapoor]

yes.. even I have heard that the schools in the east coast are sticking to ECE only in future.but I still think that if u have a decent score and an ece of 2.7 or more then u have a very bright chance.cause most of the people would have the GPA between 2.5 and 3.0 they have to take students.they cant keep rejecting everyone.
but to be honest when the GPA is below 2.5 the chances start getting slimmer. lets face it..2.0 is barely passing.atleast they want some thing higher than that..
no offence just my 2 cents

 

[godbless]

i called univ of pitts today, they r gonna update their application on april 15th for 2007 and will take only ece gpa, and preferably above 3 as told on the phone,..................somone tell me where to go

 

[Toothavenue]

Here is my 2 cents.


IF in the FIRST place, students who got low ECE gpa-posting desperately on sdn --oh what should I do now?? what is going to happen to me?..and others all telling them go to WES..they give a better GPA..!! that is why so many are NOW facing the music from schools.!!!!!!!!!! 😎

Do you all have any idea --how many people/ staff/ faculty BROWSE these forums regularly from all schools, I have a personal experience of a faculty "quoting " the EXCAT words that was written by someone on sdn..and laughing about it!!..so they also see that oh! well ece is really strict with credential evaluation and wes seems easy for such students who have LOW ece gpa..lets stick with ECE and weed out the students before they EVEN apply to our school....that is what precisely has happened. 😱

I would tell atleast NOW to stop this wes/ ece stuff ..otherwise even ALL other schools will follow through and such students will be left in quandry as to where to apply. Just pm such stuff to others and figure it out instead of posting on the forum.

there are many ways to improve application-just go about that.
Good Luck 👍


I think with Nile( Sherif) - you have a fantastic resume and record and you have really worked hard to gain this acceptance to one of the BEST schools in the country UOP --!! BEST of Luck. Of course , the DIVERSITY factor that you are from eygpt would have also played a role in your selection

As with Indians , always raising the bar on scores on NDBE--oh!!! getting ONLY the magical 90 will get you admission, 🙄 and not concentraing on what other ways are there to improve application, as caused so many people to land in misery NOW. Couple of years back, Indians with scores of 83-84 were getting into UOP/ UPENN/ CASE WESTERN ..and now--forget it..that is our own doing.. 😱

I think you should be our Moderator , as you are really well informed regarding schools. 👍 👍 🙂

That's why I asked you specifically for schools that "advertise" gpa restrictions. The people at NYU answering the phones can say what they want, but it is the adcom which makes the decisions. They are the ones who post the requirements, and if they needed a 3.0 gpa and a %90 part I, they would have said it out loud.
Here is what it says on temples website, and I am quoting them.

"Advanced Standing
Temple University School of Dentistry offers advanced standing for the internationally trained dentist who seeks to practice dentistry in the United States. Admission to Advanced Standing is highly selective and can occur only if positions are available in the third year class. Selection factors include academic record, National Board Parts I and II scores, a comprehensive pre-clinical skills evaluation conducted by the faculty, and a personal interview. Those advanced-standing applicants offered admission will enter the third year of the curriculum. Upon completion of the graduation requirements, the student will receive a Doctor of Dental Medicine (DMD) degree. Applications for the Advanced Standing Program are available from the Admissions Office."


I feel sorry for you, that you think all the hard work I put in for the last 3 years and efforts at interviews and waiting lists, amounts to "luck". You seem to be missing the point. The adcom does not pull names out of a hat or lottery bowl for admissions.


If you consider investing in your own future and career a waste of time, then I can not help you beyond this point.
I have seen people serious enough, at NYU mind you, taking additional courses to improve their gpa and getting admission later on. But again, they did not see it as a waste of time.
Good luck.

 

[joyce]

well said toothavenue...

 

[rahmed]

ECE -- BU, NYU, UPENN, TEMPLE U (3.0), U FLORIDA, UCSF, U DETROIT M, SUNY BUFFALO (also accepts BERLITZ), UCLA (also accepts IERF), LLU (also accepts IERF & ACEI), U PITT (until this year did their own evaluation but may accept ECE for the coming cycle)

ECE / WES -- TUFT, COLUMBIA U, NSU, U MN, UoP, USC, UIC, U MICHIGAN & U COLORADO (last 2 school also accept AACRAO), SUNY STONY BROOK

EVALUATOR/S UNKNOWN/ NOT MENTIONED -- MARQUETTE U, CREIGHTON U, U CONN, CASE SCHOOL OF DENTAL MEDICINE

There must be couple of other schools out there hence any errors and omissions are regretted.

rahmed

 

[tiyakapoor]

I completely agree with toothavenue.tell me something.now can u do something about the low GPA..NO.then why make it an issue and bring it in the eyes of faculty/staff.try to find some OTHER WAYS TO GET INTO SCHOOLS. LIKE IMPROVE SCORES/BETTER sop WORK EXPERENCE/IMPRESSIVE RESUME ETC ETC..
WHATS DONE 'S BEEN LONG OVER.NO POINT CRYING OVER SPILT MILK.

 

[godbless]

hi good post rahmed, it was so required!!

 

[fido!]

man...this thread is going no where......!ece or wes...what can u do now?u cannot change your g.p.a. now,can u?the damage has already been done and there is no use to cry over spilt milk...what is gone ...is gone...period!this is a very competitive world....so aspiring dentists/ would be dentists in the U.S.A. if u want to be in this competition....just stick your butts to your chair and start studying for your NBDE1 to acheive a good score!thatz it !STOP COMPLAINING!IF U CANT BEAT THEM....JOIN THEM!

 

[NileBDS]

ECE -- BU, NYU, UPENN, TEMPLE U (3.0), U FLORIDA, UCSF, U DETROIT M, SUNY BUFFALO (also accepts BERLITZ), UCLA (also accepts IERF), LLU (also accepts IERF & ACEI), U PITT (until this year did their own evaluation but may accept ECE for the coming cycle)

ECE / WES -- TUFT, COLUMBIA U, NSU, U MN, UoP, USC, UIC, U MICHIGAN & U COLORADO (last 2 school also accept AACRAO), SUNY STONY BROOK

EVALUATOR/S UNKNOWN/ NOT MENTIONED -- MARQUETTE U, CREIGHTON U, U CONN, CASE SCHOOL OF DENTAL MEDICINE

There must be couple of other schools out there hence any errors and omissions are regretted.

rahmed

Hey Rahmed.
Very informative. Thanks for taking the time in compiling this list and sharing it with us all. Proactive.
Great work ... 👍

 

[NileBDS]

Here is my 2 cents.


IF in the FIRST place, students who got low ECE gpa-posting desperately on sdn --oh what should I do now?? what is going to happen to me?..and others all telling them go to WES..they give a better GPA..!! that is why so many are NOW facing the music from schools.!!!!!!!!!! 😎

Do you all have any idea --how many people/ staff/ faculty BROWSE these forums regularly from all schools, I have a personal experience of a faculty "quoting " the EXCAT words that was written by someone on sdn..and laughing about it!!..so they also see that oh! well ece is really strict with credential evaluation and wes seems easy for such students who have LOW ece gpa..lets stick with ECE and weed out the students before they EVEN apply to our school....that is what precisely has happened. 😱

I would tell atleast NOW to stop this wes/ ece stuff ..otherwise even ALL other schools will follow through and such students will be left in quandry as to where to apply. Just pm such stuff to others and figure it out instead of posting on the forum.

there are many ways to improve application-just go about that.
Good Luck 👍


I think with Nile( Sherif) - you have a fantastic resume and record and you have really worked hard to gain this acceptance to one of the BEST schools in the country UOP --!! BEST of Luck. Of course , the DIVERSITY factor that you are from eygpt would have also played a role in your selection

As with Indians , always raising the bar on scores on NDBE--oh!!! getting ONLY the magical 90 will get you admission, 🙄 and not concentraing on what other ways are there to improve application, as caused so many people to land in misery NOW. Couple of years back, Indians with scores of 83-84 were getting into UOP/ UPENN/ CASE WESTERN ..and now--forget it..that is our own doing.. 😱

I think you should be our Moderator , as you are really well informed regarding schools. 👍 👍 🙂

That makes sense tooth.
You know, alot of people were speculating that some of the adcoms actually do browse these forums regularly, although I found it hard to believe. But apparently it is true. Several other postings confirmed that information too. I personally just found out about SDN by mere luck while at my UOP interview. I guess I was behind.
Anyways, I agree with your post. Plus the fact that ECE is gaining more and more credibility by the day, and more and more schools feel like their evaluations are more "realistic".
Thank you also for your support and nice words, however I do not think that I would make a good enough MOD. Besides, we have a great MOD here, and I think he swept over the votes in a unanimous agreement.
Prady/FIDO is doing a great job !
I will continue to offer my help and expertise on foreign trained programs throughout SDN as best I can. I am sure too that you won't be seeing much of me once I start my program. Chances are, I won't even be online as much.
One last point ... I could not agree more that me being Egyptian has definately helped my application and acceptance to UOP. Diversity is good. It is the new trend in modern High Performance Organizations (HPO's).
Good Luck, and keep intouch.

 

[fido!]

thanks nile, for ur kind words and compliments!i do appreciate it! 🙂 i know u will be busy,once u join school!hope to see u around sometimes in the future and share your valuable experience with us...!
take care and all the best 👍

Thank you also for your support and nice words, however I do not think that I would make a good enough MOD. Besides, we have a great MOD here, and I think he swept over the votes in a unanimous agreement.
Prady/FIDO is doing a great job !
I will continue to offer my help and expertise on foreign trained programs throughout SDN as best I can. I am sure too that you won't be seeing much of me once I start my program. Chances are, I won't even be online as much.