I was just wondering if any current students from each school could give me some of their pros/cons. I have made my own list, but still want as much help as I can get. Students who have also come to their own conclusion about the two, but are not currently attending either are also more than welcome to chime in. I've got a big decision ahead of me!
UPenn vs OSU
- Thread starter Jms07016
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I had to make this decision too! Glad to know I'm not alone. Here was my thought process:
Penn
1.) Closer to home (I live in northeast PA)
2.) Family in the Philadelphia area (Havertown and St. Davids)
3.) High caseload for SA
4.) NBC- since I'm also interested in mixed animal practice
5.) Loved Columbus but Philly is very doable and I have found an apartment that is close enough to school to walk
6.) Students at both schools seem very happy and I don't really think you can make a bad choice in this case. But Penn felt more homey to me.
7.) Didn't really want to worry about residency stuff at OSU or try to fight my way through that extremely expensive first year
There was more but all in all, it just felt right. Financially, it would not have been too different since Penn's IS tuition is pricey anyway. I was lucky to have been able to make the decision without too much financial pressure. Good luck! Both schools are amazing!
Penn
1.) Closer to home (I live in northeast PA)
2.) Family in the Philadelphia area (Havertown and St. Davids)
3.) High caseload for SA
4.) NBC- since I'm also interested in mixed animal practice
5.) Loved Columbus but Philly is very doable and I have found an apartment that is close enough to school to walk
6.) Students at both schools seem very happy and I don't really think you can make a bad choice in this case. But Penn felt more homey to me.
7.) Didn't really want to worry about residency stuff at OSU or try to fight my way through that extremely expensive first year
There was more but all in all, it just felt right. Financially, it would not have been too different since Penn's IS tuition is pricey anyway. I was lucky to have been able to make the decision without too much financial pressure. Good luck! Both schools are amazing!
I'm leaning more towards Penn currently also and here is the pro/con list I've created for it. I'm from NJ so they are both OOS and Philly is only 40 mins from my house. If anyone can combat this list with their own experiences/opinions please do. I want to get involved with research, but I am still unsure what kind of medicine I want to do (oncology, nutrition, lab animal, surgery, exotics, marine mammal are all interests of mine lol).
Pros
-Large class size good for social life/networking
-Incredible case load/vet hospital
-NBC is one of the best equine facilities in the U.S.
-Lots of NIH funding/research potential is huge (dual program/summer programs)
-Close to home
-Near Philly zoo
-The students seem to really make a community for themselves
-Being located in Philly allows for networking potential with all other sorts of organizations
-All hospitals/medical schools are nearly on the same street
Cons
-I've heard that professors are relatively unapproachable outside of class
-Because the vet hospital is so big and sophisticated, it seemed somewhat inaccessible to students.
-NBC is 45 minutes away from the main campus
-Located in a huge city (I've always been more of a country person, but overall I'm not too sure)
-Tracking in my opinion wouldn't facilitate well rounded learning
Pros
-Large class size good for social life/networking
-Incredible case load/vet hospital
-NBC is one of the best equine facilities in the U.S.
-Lots of NIH funding/research potential is huge (dual program/summer programs)
-Close to home
-Near Philly zoo
-The students seem to really make a community for themselves
-Being located in Philly allows for networking potential with all other sorts of organizations
-All hospitals/medical schools are nearly on the same street
Cons
-I've heard that professors are relatively unapproachable outside of class
-Because the vet hospital is so big and sophisticated, it seemed somewhat inaccessible to students.
-NBC is 45 minutes away from the main campus
-Located in a huge city (I've always been more of a country person, but overall I'm not too sure)
-Tracking in my opinion wouldn't facilitate well rounded learning
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/End my plug for Ohio State =)
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I'm an Ohio resident... A HUGE factor for me was the absurdly large class size. OSU expanded by roughly 20-25 spots this year. Walking around on the tour, I found myself stepping over students in the hallway, they must have been in between classes. And this was without the 20-25 additional spots. OSU is compensating for loss of state funding by increasing class size and giving the large portion of this increase to OOS resident b/c of >50k tuition... In addition, OSU had a large turnover of faculty recently. Oh and do not be surprised if Ohio public employees follow Wisconsin folks in their protests (see Ohio Senate Bill 5 for details). OSU is in a fragile state, financially speaking... Great school, great tradition nonetheless. With that said, I'm essentially taking out a mortgage on my future and went with the place that "felt right" <-- nothing objective, just went with my gut... Good luck!
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Regarding SB5, I hear that it is currently minus enough Republican support to even make it out of committee, so I wouldn't worry about that too much.
ETA: Also, when was your tour? If you're talking about the tour during interviews, it couldn't have been students between classes; interviews were done during Winter break. I wouldn't take what goes on during a time when classes aren't in session (esp. on a crazy stressful day like an interview day) too seriously.
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I'm referring to a tour that I did during the school year (last year). My interview was Dec 14 and there were no students there at that time.
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Thanks for starting this Jon, working on making this impossible decision myself right now as well. Any insight everyone has would be fantastic. I'm also gonna contact 1st and 4th years from each school and get a little feedback from them. VERY tough.
-Ross
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Just a side note...I don't think any vet school could really, spur of the moment, decide to increase class size. that generally takes a couple of years in the making to happen. We are going through the process now, and it has been at least 4 years in the making. I'm presuming that OSU and other class expansions are similar (well, except when NCSU helped out post hurricane for one of the island schools and there were classes going on in the CVM at night....that was spur of the moment.)
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-90% of the profs are very approachable, i was just leaving school yesterday and ran into one in the hallway and we started talking about summer plans. After neuro this week my friend and i stayed to ask some questions and we ended up talking for 30 min about a mix of academic lecture material and random stories that were interesting. Yes, there are some profs who are PhDs and only care about their research, but majority of profs here care and are extremely approachable any time (one prof even stayed up til midnight with us 2 days in a row before our histology practical)
-i dont really understand how big and sophisticated=inaccessible. you can go to the vet hospital any time you want. the vet hospital is connected to the building where we have our lounge, anatomy lab and many other places. if you want to get experience there you just need to ask and before you know it you are emergency shadowing!
-we dont really track here like some schools do (vmrcvm does after first year and its pretty strict with the classes you take) I'm not exactly sure when we track, it is either the end of second year or beginning of first year. But you can still pick w/e electives you want. I know lots of SA people who purposefully pick some LA electives just to be more knowledgeable in that area for the NAVLE
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Well, a friend of mine doing her residency at OSU, who teaches a second-year course, reported to me that she has no idea how they are going to accommodate the extra 20 students because they already have only just enough room/equipment for their current class size. The faculty she has asked about the problem did not have a solution as of December when we last spoke about this. That sounds pretty spur of the moment to me.
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I wrote out a long PM to hebrewhammer, if anyone wants to read what i sent him PM me and i'll copy what i wrote. Its way too long and wordy to put on here since i typed it up real fast this morning.
I feel like most people know the basics about the pros for Penn, here are some side note things that I thought of which hasn't really been brought up because it is very specific.
They started new clinical curriculum this year, we have increased clinical labs first and second year. The second year students get paired with 3rd/4th year students during these labs so they get to experience exactly what is expected of them later on and get more hands on experience. During first year so far we have had a decent amount of experience in clinical labs (i got to hear heart murmurs last week!! 🙂 ) We also have a program set up with the shelter and med/surg club. If you pass a knot test and volunteer at the shelter you can do neuters your first and second year.
I know students in many places are happy and love their school, but I think Penn sticks out because of how active everyone is. Some examples I can think of (besides happy hr with dogs haha) are the VBMA and MPH (business and public health certificates). The VBMA program is offered at many schools but whereas some schools barely have any enrollment almost all of Penn's students enroll. It is a great class and I definitely recommend taking it. http://www.vbma.biz/national-chapters This site shows the diff school chapters and how many members there are. Another event coming up is the SAVMA symposium. There is a thread about this in the "vet forum". Some schools have groups of 10 or so people going. Penn has over 100. I don't even know exactly. But about half of my class and half of second years. We will probably have close to as many people as UCDavis has and they are the ones hosting it. Finally, another example are the summer trips. Thailand, VIDA trips, and Galapagos (my friend just started a new club at penn and we are starting this program). Our VIDA trip was supposed to be a co-trip with Mississippi so half from Penn and half from Mississippi. Penn students ended up having a waitlist and Mississippi couldn't fill all of their slots so people off our waitlist are now going. I love our student body and I think everyone's positive energy and willing to get involved really shows. It's really refreshing to be around this type of environment during the stressful academic days.
I feel like most people know the basics about the pros for Penn, here are some side note things that I thought of which hasn't really been brought up because it is very specific.
They started new clinical curriculum this year, we have increased clinical labs first and second year. The second year students get paired with 3rd/4th year students during these labs so they get to experience exactly what is expected of them later on and get more hands on experience. During first year so far we have had a decent amount of experience in clinical labs (i got to hear heart murmurs last week!! 🙂 ) We also have a program set up with the shelter and med/surg club. If you pass a knot test and volunteer at the shelter you can do neuters your first and second year.
I know students in many places are happy and love their school, but I think Penn sticks out because of how active everyone is. Some examples I can think of (besides happy hr with dogs haha) are the VBMA and MPH (business and public health certificates). The VBMA program is offered at many schools but whereas some schools barely have any enrollment almost all of Penn's students enroll. It is a great class and I definitely recommend taking it. http://www.vbma.biz/national-chapters This site shows the diff school chapters and how many members there are. Another event coming up is the SAVMA symposium. There is a thread about this in the "vet forum". Some schools have groups of 10 or so people going. Penn has over 100. I don't even know exactly. But about half of my class and half of second years. We will probably have close to as many people as UCDavis has and they are the ones hosting it. Finally, another example are the summer trips. Thailand, VIDA trips, and Galapagos (my friend just started a new club at penn and we are starting this program). Our VIDA trip was supposed to be a co-trip with Mississippi so half from Penn and half from Mississippi. Penn students ended up having a waitlist and Mississippi couldn't fill all of their slots so people off our waitlist are now going. I love our student body and I think everyone's positive energy and willing to get involved really shows. It's really refreshing to be around this type of environment during the stressful academic days.
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With how rigorous first term is at Penn, do you think its out of the question to adopt a dog? Would you recommend waiting?
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I think your still living in a bit of a pre-vet fantasy world being on the outside only peering in.
Large class size is only a PRO to a certain point. OSU is beyond that and I would have to say 160 students is going to be a CON. Ask where the current 280 students are supposed to eat our lunches because we have no idea. And the parking lot is full literally every day, so that will be another issue with bigger class size.
Our hospital is old, they are working on some renovations, but its still a very old facility. A CON compared to places like florida with their brand new hospital.
Our equine facility is newer, but you need to talk to students interested in equine medicine(I'm not), but I've heard a lot of negatives regarding our program.
Our summer research program is great. The MPH program I think is kind of a mute point because it's not something you can do after you've started vet school.
Columbus zoo? It's there, not seeing how thats a benefit though. Student opportunities associated it are very limited. No pro there.
I love my class, we have a ton of great people, but I don't think thats unique to OSU by any means. This 100% has to do with the people in the class, 0% to do with the location.
Who cares where the med school is? Seems pretty irrelevant to me unless your goal is to marry a real doctor.
Our faculty are great and definitely very approachable; probably one of the biggest pro's for OSU.
The idea of going over and hanging out in the teaching hospital I think is a bit of a joke. People may not kick you out, but its not really realistic to just go hang out over there in your free time (at least on the small animal side of things).
And OSU is going to tracking for clinical rotations with the 2012 students(they just keep telling us to not call it "tracking").
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I'm really not the person to ask. I'm a cat person 🙂 I have many friends who adopted dogs first semester though and they were fine. It just depends on how much time you're willing to sacrifice to take care of the dog. The pro is that since most students live in west philly you can walk home in between lunch if you need to for the dog. I would probably recommend waiting to get a dog second semester. Or get a dog early in the summer so you have time to train it. I did have one friend who got a dog at the end of summer, she never had time to train it during the school year, and he became the source of many problems during our happy hours. Last time I saw him at happy hour they attached his leash to a table so he would stop causing problems. But it really just depends on what you're willing to do. Gellabella just got a puppy this semester, you can ask her opinion if you want and see if she had any reason for waiting or if it was just random that he decided to get one second semester.
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Pre-vet fantasy? I am certainly on the outside looking in, but I'm in no way fantasizing. I'm just responding to the OP's pros and cons list based upon my own experiences. I don't know whether the class size will be a problem; the OP just said they like a large class and I pointed out that OSU has one. I don't know what the proximity of the med school or the existance of the Columbus zoo have to do with vet school or why the OP considers them a pro, but they mentioned those things in regards to UPenn so I just pointed out that OSU offers similar things. With regards to hanging out at the hospital, I'm just repeating what I was told on my tour on interview day. With the tracking, I thought I heard something like that, which is why I said currently they don't do tracking. I guess I don't see where all that fits into me being in a "pre-vet fantasy."
Anyway, to the OP, obviously both schools are great, both will turn you into a veterinarian, and both have their good points and bad points. Keep doing what you're doing, gathering all the info you can, and good luck in your decision!
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The class expansion is official. On the "Admissions" link on their webpage they state: "Each year the College admits 160 new veterinary students. Of the students admitted, up to 100 seats will be offered to students who are residents of the state of Ohio. There are up to 80 seats initially reserved for "at-large" candidates."
Just a few months ago the number listed was 140 new students. Whether the 160 new vet students are for this cycle or next, I don't know. I'm assuming it's for the class of 2015, but I could be wrong. All I know is that it is happening.
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The class size will be 160 beginning with the class of 2015.
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I thought our class size was big (125) but we have enough room for everyone in the lecture halls, anatomy lab, and the histo/path lab room. It sounds like both penn and OSU are having similar issues with budgets though. Instead of increasing Penns class size they increased the number of OOS applicants to get more tuition $. Increasing class size can make a huge difference (less profs to go around for lab questions). This can be a problem during complicated dissection days or labs in histo when everyone is like wtf is the difference??!! The more people with questions the more you have to wait til they come around to you. To help with this I would stay for the full lab period (most people left early) and then you get the profs attention for as long as you want 😀
The medical schools being near by can help with research and lab jobs. For instance, i just spoke with a lab animal director and told her that i was interested in working with swine and that i love cardiology. I was expecting a list of many labs that have 1 of these criteria. Instead, she gave me the name of a famous medical lab that does cardiovascular research on swine! PERFECT! so increasing the type of schools (medical, pharm, dentistry, etc) or increasing the # of universities nearby (Drexel/Temple) can really help with the variety of jobs/research that can be available to you.
Zoos being close is important for people who want to go into wildlife or directly into zoo med. I have no clue how open Philly zoo is with this for vet students. (random info-we had a zoo field trip for anatomy last semester haha)
Thank you for all the help everyone - this thread definitely gave me some info that I was not previously aware of! Looks like UPenn is gonna be the better fit for me after all, I'll be sending in the acceptance of my offer as soon as it arrives in the mail. If you are just reading this thread or have more to say, please continue to post because there are others in the same boat as I was.
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You're just making a lot of comments about the way you think things are with the vet school, but you haven't actually attended yet.
I'm not saying anything you're saying is wrong either, all your answers are correct. But they all have the positive spin you'd expect to find in an admissions brochure. When your sitting in the classroom every day and dealing with all the issues first hand, then it will be your reality.
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I think it's good to hear about cons from kids who currently attend as well, gives us a bit of insight into not only the golden shining things about each school. So you don't think there's much opportunity there for zoo/wildlife experience? Not at the zoo/The Wilds?
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The Wilds is a pretty good hike from Columbus, about 80 miles. But if you look at their websites, they have a lot of summer job opportunities as well as internships you can apply for. Columbus Zoo also offers internship and volunteer opportunities. I know several undergrads who have interned their during the summers, and if you check out their website and go to "join the team," you can see the volunteer (and internship) opportunities available.
ETA: I haven't PERSONALLY tried to apply for a job/internship/volunteer position at either of these places so I'm not sure how easy/difficult it is to secure one-just letting you know they are there. You might try contacting them and asking them realistically how likely it is that you could get experience there.
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I worked as an intern out at the Wilds for a summer. The position was fairly competitive. I don't know how things are with the CVM but I know they are working to expand upon this relationship because it's such an excellent educational resource.
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No, no, no... you've got it all wrong.... the exciting reason for OSU's college of medicine/hospital to be close to the CVM is that there's a Cheryl's cookie store inside the hospital....
AND
(drum roll please....)
for each A you get each quarter, you get a free cookie....
(sorry for all you OSU students that didn't know this... print out your grades and take them to redeem for free cookies for that quarter. I know they still did it spring of this past year, so I'm doubting they did away with it...)
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I got a foster dog 4 weeks before vet school started and I still have him.
It worked out fine.
But the first semester at Penn is really, really insane - with or without a dog!
My brief version of my opinion of Penn:
-love the students (and I'm a curmudgeon so that's saying a lot)
-love the hospital (me and said dog have spent a LOT of time there this year)
-dislike the lack of administrative organization and many of the professors.
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This is great guys, anyone have any other stuff to add for either?
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Since finances aren't any different, I feel like anyone debating this should already know what they want. If you don't have a preference I would talk with your sig fig and parents. Otherwise, with debt out of the picture you should have a gut feeling and know what fits you better.
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unlike my colleague, I love OSU CVM. I think that there is an opportunity to do anything you want, you just have to seek them. I wanted to spend more time in the equine ward, so now I am a student worker. There are also several positions in the small animal hospital. there are also courses offered beginning winter quarter, where you go to rounds and go the the emergency ward of the small animal hospital.
I love the class size, but its true, I have no idea where they are going to put the extra students. I was also an out of state student, from MA. I personally have been pleasantly surprised at columbus as a city. A good downtown night life, and a country feel. If you like college football, this is the place to be!
When I came to interview here, I knew I loved the atmosphere when I compared it to my interviews at other schools such as tufts. PM me if you have any more questions
I love the class size, but its true, I have no idea where they are going to put the extra students. I was also an out of state student, from MA. I personally have been pleasantly surprised at columbus as a city. A good downtown night life, and a country feel. If you like college football, this is the place to be!
When I came to interview here, I knew I loved the atmosphere when I compared it to my interviews at other schools such as tufts. PM me if you have any more questions
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Haha! Funny typo. A relic of undergrad chemistry?
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Loveeee this! I was a chem TA for 2 years and those things really stick with me! Glad to know they stick with other people too! I was at the shelter on one of my days off in sandals and one of the vets had me watch a quick necropsy and the whole time I kept thinking "omg I need to be wearing full coverage shoes!"
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And their apparent ability to read the thread before commenting. Seriously, the thing was put to rest, everyone understood what everone else meant. Leave it alone.
Anyway, if you dislike Ohio State then don't be shy, chime in (with something more than just an emoticon, preferably).
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lol its not a typo, thats how i say it. rolls off the tongue so much better than sig other
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Wait BlacKat, how are finances no different? There's a significant difference from where I stand....
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oh i thought everyone who was debating was OOS for both, and both schools are expensive
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Financially, OSU does have in its favor that it allows OOS to gain IS status for tuition purposes after year 1 (I don't think that's been said this thread). In my short opinion both are very positive schools. If money were no object I'd be looking a lot harder at Penn. But my IS is OSU and that is a big deal for me. And OSU has always been one of my very top schools (#1 in total picture, financial, preference, and close to family), so it worked well for me as an opportunity. I look forward to this fall 🙂
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Just to make a point for tuition comparison:
Attending OSU as an OOS would put the cost at: ~59,000 for year 1 then ~25,000/ year for 2-4. Total cost of tuition: $134,000
Attending Penn IS is ~32,000/year for all 4 years. Total cost of tuition: $128,000
Attending Penn OOS is ~40,000/year or $160,000.
The line is much more blurry for those who are IS at Penn. Also applicants need to consider cost of living/moving.
But then consideration must be given to the chance that state budgets will be slashed and tuition will skyrocket. To date, Penn has been affected more by cuts than OSU.
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True.... but Ohio is facing an 8 billion dollar budget shortfall that probably will be trickling through every aspect of state funding. This is, from what I've heard, a partial factor as to why class size has increased to 160....
I <3 my Buckeyes but the state budget is scaring people in all areas that receive state monies....
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Correct. However, from what I understand, Penn was the first affected -- but the other schools are rapidly catching up and are soon going to be in a very similar position to where Penn was a couple of years ago.
States have to cut their budget somewhere, and unfortunately as a profession, we haven't done a terrific job of "selling" ourselves to the "powers that be." It also doesn't help that NIH funding is looking at major cuts and that education (in general) is seeing a lot of cutbacks as well.
👎thumbdown
Overall, not a great time to be in vet school.
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Hey guys,
I have to say I was thrilled when I found this thread. I am currently accepted at osu and have an interview with upenn this friday so this could amay be a decision I will have to make (fingers crossed). I am interested in equine/large animal medicine so I was hoping I could gain some perspective on both schools in this regard. Does anyone out there know the average case load for each school in terms of equine or large animal? I am aware that both schools have great facilities but I was wondering how much time/use the students actually get at them...also I heard somewhere that at upenn if you are LA you get to live at the NBC. Is that correct?
I have to say I was thrilled when I found this thread. I am currently accepted at osu and have an interview with upenn this friday so this could amay be a decision I will have to make (fingers crossed). I am interested in equine/large animal medicine so I was hoping I could gain some perspective on both schools in this regard. Does anyone out there know the average case load for each school in terms of equine or large animal? I am aware that both schools have great facilities but I was wondering how much time/use the students actually get at them...also I heard somewhere that at upenn if you are LA you get to live at the NBC. Is that correct?
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yup there are apartments there you can stay in for free. i think Ben and Me probably knows more about it
