UPenn vs UCSF vs Yale vs UChicago vs UTSW (full COA scholarship)

[thatveganteacher]

Hi! I’m in such a fortunate position to be deciding between all these amazing schools. I’m super torn because while it has been my lifelong dream to go to an ivy, my state school (UTSW) would be completely free. Although I am inclined to take UTSW’s offer, I come from a background where most of my relatives and family friends are doctors/dentists. Many of them have been heavily encouraging me to choose the most prestigious school over UTSW, as they themselves regret not making that choice now that they are earning an attending salary/wish it had been an option. That being said, they aren’t necessarily the most informed people lol. For example, few knew of UTSW/UCSF and none knew about how high of a caliber both schools are. They also thought Yale was leaps and bounds ahead of Penn and UCSF. Any insight on where you think I should go/input from those who have had to make similar decisions and how they feel about it in retrospect would be extremely helpful!! Suggestions on which schools to rule out would also be helpful, since I’m not sure which ones to withdraw from on April 15th. For some context I do want to enjoin a career in medicine with public health leadership, health policy, or advocacy—not sure what specialty (likely something competitive…maybe derm? Don’t know if that would work all my interests). The cost for all schools except UTSW would likely be the full COA, although I am still waiting to hear back about aid from Penn and UChicago. For schools that are full cost, I would likely need to take out at least 200k in loans depending on how much my parents contribute.

UPenn

Pros:
-Layman prestige
-Research powerhouse
-Insane match list
-Seems to support interdisciplinary interests and train MD pluses (engage in medicine beyond in clinic)
-Philly seems like a nice city to be in for 4 years (visiting next weekend) w/ lots of opportunities
-All glass med school/facilities

Cons:
-Full cost (awaiting decision on matching UTSW)
-Weather
-Graded clerkships—everyone matches well but unsure if it will be hypercompetitive during clerkships (AOA after match)

UCSF

Pros:
-SF seems like such a great city to be in for 4 years (haven’t been in 10 years)
-Research powerhouse
-P/F, no AOA or rankings
-Great match list
-Public health/health equity focused (aligns with interests)
-Can get in state tuition and gov. assistance programs (food stamps) after first year

Cons:
-Full cost (100k less than Penn and Yale)
-Low layman prestige
-Hospital system is very decentralized/spread out (would need car during M3)

Yale

Pros:
-Layman prestige (my mom can say her son goes to Yale lol)
-Yale System (relaxed, collaborative, no grades)
-Has been childhood dream to go to a well-known ivy
-Very strong match list
-Seems to support interdisciplinary interests and train MD pluses (especially in health policy)

Cons:
-Full cost
-New Haven (weather, isolated, less opportunity)—not sure how tolerable living here would be…I am visiting in 1.5 weeks
-Have to take physics summer school (short one prerequisite)

UChicago

Pros:
-Health equity focus
-Layman prestige
-Strong support system nearby (extended family in Chicago)
-Chicago is a great city and Hyde Park seems really nice

Cons:
-Graded clerkships, AOA, and rankings
-Weather
-Isn’t as highly regarded in medicine
-Weaker match list comparatively
-Full cost (awaiting decision on matching UTSW)

UTSW

Pros:
-Full COA scholarship (better QOL?)
-Clinical training seems v robust
-Easy transition knowing other students
-Weather
-Closest to family (still 4 hours away)

Cons:
-Graded clerkships, AOA, and rankings
-Texas (really wanted to leave lol)
-Low layman prestige
-I feel like I’ll grow the least here with it being the easiest/most comfortable option
-Weaker match list comparatively

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[Stuaccount]

UCSF

 

[neymarpluto]

Who cares about layman prestige! You should go to the school that is the best in medical training and could support your interests. All great options but my pick would be between UCSF or Penn simply because they are better medical schools than the other options! For me Yale is out because is not ranked as high as UCSF or Penn within the medical field so financially it would not be worth it over UTSW.

 

[Brownies_15]

UTSW--debt is no joke!

 

[Mr. Macrophage]

The comments here encouraging hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt over a full ride at a T20 are genuinely absurd in my opinion @neymarpluto @Stuaccount

I would like to remind voters that interest rates are currently at 8.08% and 9.08% (with no indication of dropping in the next few years) for the life of the loan.

If you end up with $300,000 in debt, that will have grown to half a million dollars by the time you finish residency, and will continue growing at $25,000 a year until you start making a serious dent.

Even if you enter a specialty with above average pay ($400,000) and follow the White Coat Investor’s advice and live like a resident until your loans are paid off, it would take 3 years of your life to fully pay off those loans while still delaying things like a home purchase and hefty retirement funding.

tl/dr: choosing a school other than UTSW takes 3 years of your earnings away. There is no circumstance where that makes sense (in my humble opinion) unless one of the other schools reduces their debt.

 

[etxaccepted36]

The comments here encouraging hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt over a full ride at a T20 are genuinely absurd in my opinion @neymarpluto @Stuaccount

I would like to remind voters that interest rates are currently at 8.08% and 9.08% (with no indication of dropping in the next few years) for the life of the loan.

If you end up with $300,000 in debt, that will have grown to half a million dollars by the time you finish residency, and will continue growing at $25,000 a year until you start making a serious dent.

Even if you enter a specialty with above average pay ($400,000) and follow the White Coat Investor’s advice and live like a resident until your loans are paid off, it would take 3 years of your life to fully pay off those loans while still delaying things like a home purchase and hefty retirement funding.

tl/dr: choosing a school other than UTSW takes 3 years of your earnings away. There is no circumstance where that makes sense (in my humble opinion) unless one of the other schools reduces their debt.

Fully agreed here. Take that full COA and run with it. You'll get to start your life way earlier that way at an amazing school.

Plus, in my opinion, 'layman's prestige' is kind of a lame reason to choose a med school. It may carry some weight in your social circle / culture depending on your background, but to put it bluntly, do you really think bragging rights for a few years is worth half a million dollars?

For what it's worth, I'm on the waitlist at UTSW, so this goes against my personal interests. I really believe it's the best choice for you.

 

[cbum]

I agree with @Mr. Macrophage in that if you are personally taking out loans to cover the full-COA for these schools, then it’s a no-brainer to ignore the blinded by prestige outlook from your parents and people around you who are not the ones signing up to pay the huge financial debt of your choice. I’m in almost the same situation as you except a full-tuition scholarship at Baylor vs t10 OOS As and the only reason I am considering to go OOS is parental financial support.

With that being said, if your parents are financially able and very willing to cover all or a majority of the COA to Yale/Penn/UCSF, then I would consider not running with UTSW.

 

[harmonious_gazelle]

Even if your parents could afford to pay full COA at these schools, that's around 300-400k. You should go to UTSW and use that money to get a down payment on a house somewhere.

 

[hydroflaskhomie]

How badly do you want to leave Texas? If it isn't 300k bad, I would take UTSW and run.

(Current Yale student - happy to answer any Qs about your concerns about New Haven)

 

[MercifulCamper]

I made the decision everyone is telling you not to make. In hindsight it was probably somewhat dumb! LOL

But I love it out here. But I also loved UTSWs vibes and the people (what could have been my future classmates) I met when I went to visit. It was a tough decision for sure. I think you will be trained to be an equally good clinician at UTSW or UCSF. I think that's because there are so many similarities actually between the institutions (both public schools/research heavy/academic/major public hospitals within the system). Based on the grading schema it may be a bit more stressful at UTSW.

In hindsight, I think I still would pick UCSF. But I was 30% in on UTSW back then and 70% in on UCSF. I think if I had to make the decision today with my experience up to this point I would have been 40% UTSW and 60% UCSF. And perhaps in the future I will flip and wish I would've gone the other way, but maybe I won't. I think the thing that still reassures me about my choice is seeing that there is consistently not a bad match in the specialty I'm interested here from year to year. I'm really risk averse. But real talk, I also should have had some more confidence in myself to be able to succeed anywhere I went. It really wasn't that much more risky to go to UTSW. You got into these schools and these scholarships for a reason and I promise you, you will be able to succeed wherever you go.

That's all to say - you are in a tough position but you are wildly successful. You may feel like its a bit more risky for your matching prospects to go to UTSW over UCSF but for the amount of cash that risk may be worth it to you. However, you are gonna be ok whichever choice you go with and the prestige difference between the two schools is less than you actually think --- and few lay people know what UTSW or UCSF is lol (not that it matters)

 

[NotTheOne]

UCSF if your goal is to stay in academic medicine your entire life and plan on doing fellowship and want to become a chair of a department at a big name academic place.

Anything else, take the money and run. UTSW is not going to hold you back from anything.