UPENN vs USC Discussion

[ssik]

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I am a So Cal native and do believe I want to practice here. Assuming I put forth equal effort wherever I go, which school do you think would give me the most choices and opportunities in the future? Which would open more doors? As of now, my interests are many: research, academia, general dentistry, and some specialties... Naturally, as a predent, I don't know what I want to do yet.

Aside from this, I think the climate, general location, chair time, PBLness vs non-PBLness, clinical skills, attractiveness of people, blah, blah, blah are negligible issues to me. These are things I can deal with and will deal with regardless of where I go.

 

[Jake8]

Look for some recent opinions about USC, then look for recent posts about UPENN. Personally hands down UPENN.

 

[xhamburgersamx]

Well at USC, you can always find a cute undergrad walking around near the d-school !😀

 

[prydA]

Well at USC, you can always find a cute undergrad walking around near the d-school !😀

i think upenn has cute girls too

 

[Doc Ock]

Interesting enough both schools are very similar.

Situated in bad areas of town

tuition about the same (http://www.dental.upenn.edu/academic/DMDprogram/dmd-tuition.html)
UPenn about $275 K and USC about $276 K.

Both Schools are getting new deans (say why exactly did they fire UPenn's dean anyway? No one from UPenn wants to say, but she was fired)

Western Regional Boards are NOT administered at UPenn (unlike Tufts and NYU where you can take WREBs). So that might be a consideration if you are wanting to practice in California (it is always easier to take a board exam at your home school).

 

[gryffindor]

Western Regional Boards are NOT administered at UPenn (unlike Tufts and NYU where you can take WREBs). So that might be a consideration if you are wanting to practice in California (it is always easier to take a board exam at your home school).

Moot point. Looks like the WREB is administered at Temple, so gather up your patients from Penn and have them meet you across town for the exam. Don't let a regional board exam get in the way of your decision of which dental school to attend. This shouldn't even be a factor to consider when deciding between dental schools.

 

[DrReo]

UPenn 👍

 

[seaweed719]

FYI,

UPenn's tuition and fee (including living expenses):
Total
$82,928
$83,432
$85,900
$83,256
--------
$335,516


USC's tuition and fee (including living expenses):
(http://dentistry.usc.edu/doctoral.aspx?id=912)
$101,974
$99,573
$97,852
$67,880
----------
$367,279

Not sure why USC's total expenses in the fourth year suddenly drops to $67880 from an average of ~$99000 in the previous three years.

 

[DrReo]

FYI,

UPenn's tuition and fee (including living expenses):
Total
$82,928
$83,432
$85,900
$83,256
--------
$335,516


USC's tuition and fee (including living expenses):
(http://dentistry.usc.edu/doctoral.aspx?id=912)
$101,974
$99,573
$97,852
$67,880
----------
$367,279

Not sure why USC's total expenses in the fourth year suddenly drops to $67880 from an average of ~$99000 in the previous three years.

It's two trimesters.

 

[xhamburgersamx]

So what's up with UPENN? Are there a lot of problems there as well? USC seems to generally have unhappy students (probably those with just an USC acceptance with no choice). Any upenn students out there?

 

[Doc Ock]

Well, it seems USC overestimates living expenses and UPenn underestimates living expenses. So let us look only at what they say is education expense.

USC=74418+73017+71296+47963= 266694

UPenn=68163+68076+70554+69291=276084

So UPenn is more expensive than USC in education expense by $9390

So UPenn wins the title of the most expensive DSchool in the nation!

 

[ssik]

I forgot to exclude the cost thing too... The prices for the 2 schools are very comparable.

So the school with the best opportunities for a future So Cal dentist?

I think USC would open more doors locally but it seems that UPENN currently has a better reputation in the dental world.

I'm a strong believer that the system by which the world functions is centered upon the concept of "connections"... My prime example would be George W. Bush... Please tell me his father's presidency did not help get him elected. (i know money helps too)

 

[xhamburgersamx]

I forgot to exclude the cost thing too... The prices for the 2 schools are very comparable.

So the school with the best opportunities for a future So Cal dentist?

I think USC would open more doors locally but it seems that UPENN currently has a better reputation in the dental world.

I'm a strong believer that the system by which the world functions is centered upon the concept of "connections"... My prime example would be George W. Bush... Please tell me his father's presidency did not help get him elected. (i know money helps too)

Southern California is probably super saturated with USC graduates so finding a job probably would be slightly easier through these "connections." I know so many people (in other fields) get hooked up with jobs through USC - it's unbelievable. But you should go somewhere you will be happy for four years but then again, you can just suffer and reap the benefits in the future.

 

[Doc Ock]

This being an apple rather than an orange...but as an FYI,

USC grad Ortho is very well connected. Very , Very strong alumni connections. Very interconnected with their study groups. Strong financial support for the Ortho Clinic among the Ortho alumni.

 

[johnyjohn6]

Is this a serious debate? I would think most people agree that UPenn is a much better decision. UPenn is an ivy league founded by Benjamin Franklin for God's sake. Penn was founded by a founding father. A founding father of the United States of America. It would be un-American to choose USC over UPenn.

 

[katy5787]

I interviewed at both schools and if I were you I would definitely pick Penn. As I'm sure you've read on here, USC has too many problems right now. No school is going to be perfect, but Penn is definitely a good school with a great reputation. Plus, if you're from Cali, you should try living somewhere else for a little while. I'm from PA and I'm going to UCLA because I want to do just that. This might be one of the last chances you have to really explore a new place while you don't have a job or family etc.

 

[JessD]

UPENN 100%! 👍

 

[hellonurse]

Is this a serious debate? I would think most people agree that UPenn is a much better decision. UPenn is an ivy league founded by Benjamin Franklin for God's sake. Penn was founded by a founding father. A founding father of the United States of America. It would be un-American to choose USC over UPenn.

hahaha


I would pick UPenn..many of the dentists practicing in southern CA went to southern CA schools. Maybe it would be to your advantage to go to school at an IVY league and be different.

 

[SWIMnPOLO]

I guess if you plan on being locked up in your apartment all day studying, then you might as well go to UPenn.

But if you care about having a life, enjoying nice weather, activities, sporting events, etc. USC is the place to go.

 

[whlee84]

I guess if you plan on being locked up in your apartment all day studying, then you might as well go to UPenn.

But if you care about having a life, enjoying nice weather, activities, sporting events, etc. USC is the place to go.

This is the worst assumption EVER. so, people in phillie don't have a life? they don't have sporting events? they don't have activities? come on, dental school is all about what you make of it, not the location of the school.

and yes, if you want nice weather all year around, go to USC. but do you really want "nice weather" to determine where you'll live for the next 4 years?

 

[xhamburgersamx]

This is the worst assumption EVER. so, people in phillie don't have a life? they don't have sporting events? they don't have activities? come on, dental school is all about what you make of it, not the location of the school.

and yes, if you want nice weather all year around, go to USC. but do you really want "nice weather" to determine where you'll live for the next 4 years?

None of my friends at upenn are happy but neither are any of my friends at usc. Point being, dental school makes life suck for 4 years. The general consensus amongst the dental students i know is that usc is very relaxed for the first year and extremely difficult, stressful the last 3. Upenn is academically difficult/stressful throughout. USC has nice weather throughout, ocean, college sports, etc. Upenn cold

 

[DrReo]

I guess if you plan on being locked up in your apartment all day studying, then you might as well go to UPenn.

But if you care about having a life, enjoying nice weather, activities, sporting events, etc. USC is the place to go.

It's more like, go do your research for PBL!

 

[ssik]

It's more like, go do your research for PBL!

PBL is used to substitute certain classes (pre-clinical) which would usually be taught in lecture format. PBL means you do your own research and read on your own, then come together and discuss what you've learned with others in a small group.

In the traditional lecture setting, I've heard people often miss class and just end up watching it on video or listening to the audio lecture and following the notes that were taken. Some students do this on a regular basis... Isn't this similar to PBL in that the student is going through the material on their own? In the end, each individual student must memorize and master the material on their own.

The PBL format seems to work for some people.

 

[HupHolland]

PBL is used to substitute certain classes (pre-clinical) which would usually be taught in lecture format. PBL means you do your own research and read on your own, then come together and discuss what you've learned with others in a small group.

In the traditional lecture setting, I've heard people often miss class and just end up watching it on video or listening to the audio lecture and following the notes that were taken. Some students do this on a regular basis... Isn't this similar to PBL in that the student is going through the material on their own? In the end, each individual student must memorize and master the material on their own.

The PBL format seems to work for some people.

Geez, I really hope that PBL is not a substitute for pre-clinical courses! What type of problem based learning will you be doing in dental anatomy, operative, fixed, remo, etc??? I support evidenced based dentistry in theses areas, but PBL? Please!

Hup

 

[xhamburgersamx]

Geez, I really hope that PBL is not a substitute for pre-clinical courses! What type of problem based learning will you be doing in dental anatomy, operative, fixed, remo, etc??? I support evidenced based dentistry in theses areas, but PBL? Please!

Hup

Almost all the basic sciences are taught using PBL but everything pre-clinical is taught in lectures or in the sim lab. There are lectures, USC is not `100% pbl Some topics such as practice management is better taught in small groups hence an advantage of PBL there. etc.

 

[Columbia07]

Geez, I really hope that PBL is not a substitute for pre-clinical courses! What type of problem based learning will you be doing in dental anatomy, operative, fixed, remo, etc??? I support evidenced based dentistry in theses areas, but PBL? Please!

Hup

I'm not going to flame you for asking such a ridiculous question; however, I will clarify what the pre-dent was trying to say.

The basic medical sciences are taught in PBL format here. The pre-clinical courses (Perio, Amalgam, Composite, Posterior Fixed, Anterior Fixed, Removeable, Perio Surgery, Endo, Pedo, Ortho, etc) ALL have lectures and more than enough hours in the simulation lab. Most of these courses meet for an average of 12-14 hours of simulation lab/week with some having an additional 5-20 hours/week of homework assigned. The pre-clinical courses taught here more than prepare you for the clinic.

Take this as an example: FIRST posterior-fixed exam (5 weeks into the course) 3 hours to prep and provisionalize a reverse 3/4 crown on #14--they don't screw around here. The rest of our exams are FPDs, which need to be prepped and provionalized in 3.5 hours.

 

[HupHolland]

I'm not going to flame you for asking such a ridiculous question; however, I will clarify what the pre-dent was trying to say.

The basic medical sciences are taught in PBL format here. The pre-clinical courses (Perio, Amalgam, Composite, Posterior Fixed, Anterior Fixed, Removeable, Perio Surgery, Endo, Pedo, Ortho, etc) ALL have lectures and more than enough hours in the simulation lab. Most of these courses meet for an average of 12-14 hours of simulation lab/week with some having an additional 5-20 hours/week of homework assigned. The pre-clinical courses taught here more than prepare you for the clinic.

Take this as an example: FIRST posterior-fixed exam (5 weeks into the course) 3 hours to prep and provisionalize a reverse 3/4 crown on #14--they don't screw around here. The rest of our exams are FPDs, which need to be prepped and provionalized in 3.5 hours.

ahh, no flaming necessary. just confused.

thanks for the clarification,
Hup