Urgent matter please advise.

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What is the exact wording on the letter you signed?
 
That doesn't seem like a binding contract or anything, and it occurred outside of the match which is binding. You should call and explain your dilemma and see what they say...does the offer from the nearby program have a response deadline?

Also - the program that sent you an actual contract seems like the stronger deal. You may find you have nothing binding with the distant program until they forward to you actual contracts.

For a PD: Are there any rules or binding things that programs and students have to follow in this? Do the rules we all agree to in the match or SOAP apply to this?
 
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ugh, I just wrote a post that got eaten, but in any case.. what other people have said. This is not binding but ask a lawyer to be super sure.
 
Bartelby said:
At the very least I would call the first program and explain the situation. They might let you out of the spot. If they can go down the list and still fill your seat it seems a bit heartless not to.
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I doubt they have anything that binds him to the spot anyway. He could tell them "I changed my mind" and that would be sufficient, but of course I would explain the situation to them, and no matter what they say, I would still pull the plug...

This would be a far different story if he had signed the contracts, but even then I bet they would let him out of it.
 
Your school is likely wrong. Dont take legal advice from the school - the school is interested in their image, not your happiness. Most attorneys will talk to you on the phone or in person and provide a free consultation that will answer this question quickly. An attorney with experience in employment contracts is ideal.
All the same, it is still best to let the distant program know the situation. They might guilt trip you some, but if they have any brains they will let you move on rather than have an unhappy resident.
 
Yeah. Most contracts have language that directly speaks to the amount of hell they're allowed to inflict on you if you breach.

I know this because I just considered breaching my contract, had an attorney read it, blanched and thought better of it.

This doesn't sound like a contract. And it's four whole years of your life.

This isn't legal advice, but do what you need to do to be where you want to be. Life is too short.


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wolfvgang22 said:
Your school is likely wrong. Dont take legal advice from the school - the school is interested in their image, not your happiness. Most attorneys will talk to you on the phone or in person and provide a free consultation that will answer this question quickly. An attorney with experience in employment contracts is ideal.
All the same, it is still best to let the distant program know the situation. They might guilt trip you some, but if they have any brains they will let you move on rather than have an unhappy resident.
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Either way, your dean or whomever isn't going to tell you to make waves. It doesn't make them look good and they will always guide you on the path of least resistance.

The only problem I could see is that you don't yet have a spot in the eventual residency you need. The odds for some TRI going around and blacklisting you are pretty slim, but who knows? This kind of stuff wasn't uncommon back in the pre-SOAP days. Desperate students would verbally say yes to one offer then a better one would come around before the student could sign the contract. I know of a case of this in Psych from a while back. The spurned program was reportedly really pissed off about it, but nothing they could do.
 
I think "spurned" programs need to get over themselves and realize that what is a temporary inconvenience for them is somebody else's life.

The process breeds stuff like this. If they don't like it, change the process.


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michaelrack said:
A letter of intent isn't as binding as a contract, but it does have some obligations including negotiating the final contract in good faith. You can be sued if you dont honor the letter of intent
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Maybe can be sued, but very unlikely to be worth the time or effort.
Also, there really isn't any negotiation when it comes to residency positions in reality. It's usually "this is what residents are paid here and what benefits residents get here. Show up and work or your career goes away."
I guess an easy way out of this situation is that since the student is not obligated to work there because he/she did not Match and doesn't have Match obligations he or she can say nicely "I want $10,000 more a year than usual residents are paid every year because you are 2500 miles away", and the residency program will say "no" because they don't have that money, and then the student can take the job closer to home. That would be negotiation in good faith, and very difficult to argue otherwise.
 
Since the NRMP don't have any skin in this game, I doubt repercussions are likely. It will not endear you to the program that thought they had an agreement, but slavery went away in 1865. I suggest talking to the PD asap. He/She will realize they are licked by circumstances. The longer you wait, the worse as they need to know they still need to plug an opening.
 
wolfvgang22 said:
Maybe can be sued, but very unlikely to be worth the time or effort.
Also, there really isn't any negotiation when it comes to residency positions in reality. It's usually "this is what residents are paid here and what benefits residents get here. Show up and work or your career goes away."
I guess an easy way out of this situation is that since the student is not obligated to work there because he/she did not Match and doesn't have Match obligations he or she can say nicely "I want $10,000 more a year than usual residents are paid every year because you are 2500 miles away", and the residency program will say "no" because they don't have that money, and then the student can take the job closer to home. That would be negotiation in good faith, and very difficult to argue otherwise.
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The letter of intent had an agreed upon salary, so it would be bad faith to ask for $10 k more a year, and the program would have good grounds for a lawsuit
 
MacDonaldTriad said:
Since the NRMP don't have any skin in this game, I doubt repercussions are likely. It will not endear you to the program that thought they had an agreement, but slavery went away in 1865. I suggest talking to the PD asap. He/She will realize they are licked by circumstances. The longer you wait, the worse as they need to know they still need to plug an opening.
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a letter of intent is a form of contract, and is nothing compared to slavery
 
But what are the damages of not honoring a residency employment letter of intent/contract? If he notifies them now, I'd wager almost none, as they were already offering a position outside of the match and could easily fill the spot with other unmatched persons. They would have to in good faith advertise that spot and fail to get a new person, but still, what damages can they reasonably claim from not having a resident?
 
michaelrack said:
a letter of intent is a form of contract, and is nothing compared to slavery
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I know you are right, but I have hear PDs complain that during their efforts to make residents honor a contract, they were threatened by regulatory agencies to comply with providing training summaries or else. I just don't see anyone being interested in putting any teeth into this.
 
FlowRate said:
But what are the damages of not honoring a residency employment letter of intent/contract? If he notifies them now, I'd wager almost none, as they were already offering a position outside of the match and could easily fill the spot with other unmatched persons. They would have to in good faith advertise that spot and fail to get a new person, but still, what damages can they reasonably claim from not having a resident?
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Honestly I'm not totally sure how true that is given my assumption that this is a DO TRI. I can't imagine it's all that competitive to have people burning a year at Grand Blanc Genesys or wherever.
 
michaelrack said:
The letter of intent had an agreed upon salary, so it would be bad faith to ask for $10 k more a year, and the program would have good grounds for a lawsuit
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A letter of intent that does not specify any terms for breech is merely an agreement made in good faith and is not a legally binding contract. This guy needs to talk to a lawyer and make sure that he's in the clear, but there is a very good chance he is in the clear if there were no terms of breech listed in the letter.

What makes a contract a contract is terms, not intent. Without terms, a contract is meaningless.
 
When you're torn what to do, doing what's right is usually be best bet. If you're unsure, it's usually the one that's hard.

So call up the program you signed the letter of intent with and tell them you don't want it any more. One of a handful of things will happen:

1. They will be understanding and accommodating and wish you well. This is probably unlikely since you're creating a lot of work for them.
2. They will be upset and angry. They may even call you names and hang up the phone on you. This is fairly likely and likely fair: you are in fact reneging.
3. They will threaten you with lawsuits if you don't show up on July 1st.

1 and 2 are winners and you get what you want. If you wind up with 3, you are no worse off than where you are now and you can call the lawyers and figure out what to do.
 
notdeadyet said:
When you're torn what to do, doing what's right is usually be best bet. If you're unsure, it's usually the one that's hard.

So call up the program you signed the letter of intent with and tell them you don't want it any more. One of a handful of things will happen:

1. They will be understanding and accommodating and wish you well. This is probably unlikely since you're creating a lot of work for them.
2. They will be upset and angry. They may even call you names and hang up the phone on you. This is fairly likely and likely fair: you are in fact reneging.
3. They will threaten you with lawsuits if you don't show up on July 1st.

1 and 2 are winners and you get what you want. If you wind up with 3, you are no worse off than where you are now and you can call the lawyers and figure out what to do.
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Too cynical by half, but the point stands that the OP needs to man up and call the program before his other offer evaporates.

I am surprised no PDs have weighed in here...what gives?

Regardless, a lawsuit seems really farfetched without a signed contract to contest. So what if you piss somebody off - they will get over it.
 
Psychotic said:
Too cynical by half, but the point stands that the OP needs to man up and call the program before his other offer evaporates.

I am surprised no PDs have weighed in here...what gives?

Regardless, a lawsuit seems really farfetched without a signed contract to contest. So what if you piss somebody off - they will get over it.
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I weighed in privately (as I prefer to do, since I hate having others watch me get on the scale...), but what I said was pretty similar:
.... I'm no expert on the legalities of the letters of intent. I presume this is nothing like the Match or SOAP where there are serious ramifications of going outside the process. I have to think that the 2500-mile program would release you from a letter of intent like that if they knew the circumstances. They'll probably be able to replace you easily, too. Does the letter or anything mention any consequence of withdrawing your intent? If not--I think you're safe. Do you have a school student affairs office which could more knowledgeably advise you? What about the GME office of the local program? Get more information--don't be shy. This is major life-affecting stuff for you.
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There you go. High level ignorance at its best.
 
Psychotic said:
Too cynical by half, but the point stands that the OP needs to man up and call the program before his other offer evaporates.
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I actually don't see the cynicism there. You agree to something of consequence and change your mind, it's bound to potentially irritate folks. Is that really cynical? Maybe I'm not giving folks enough credit.

I remember deciding to back out of a medical school admission offer very late when a cheaper state school offered me a seat WAY late in the game and it made for several uncomfortable calls. Definitely worth it, but not fun to do.
 
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