URGENT! UTSW ($110k CoA) vs Kaiser ($0 CoA)

[CheeesyBoi]

Background: I am OOS to both of these schools. I am interested in competitive surgical specialties (ortho, plastics, neurosurgery). I am married and my spouse will actively be working, however, we don't think she will be able to cover full CoA. Plus, we will be starting a family during school (which obviously increased cost of living). I am hoping to match either in Texas, California, or Utah.

UTSW pros:

• Amazing, established facilities. Parkland/Clements/Childrens are all nationally recognized hospitals that allow you to see just about everything
• Highly ranked departments in nearly every specialty with amazing learning opportunities during clerkships
• I vibed with the students I met and felt very at home with the student body
• Rigorous curriculum that (from what I understand) produces students that are very competent going into residency
• Spouse and I loved Dallas when we visited
• Current students talk about the exceptional amount of opportunity they have for research, shadowing, leadership, etc., often having to turn down opportunities since they already have so many extracurriculars going on
• 12 weeks of dedicated research time (residency resume builder)
• 75% of students match at 1 of their top 3 institutions
• Received full-tuition scholarship with acceptance offer (idk how much this actually means, but it was meaningful to me since it seemed like they really wanted me to come to UTSW off the bat)

UTSW cons:

• COA will be roughly $110k over the next 4 years (spouse will work, but likely won’t be able to cover full costs)
• Minimal nature surrounding the medical district + not the safest area to live in
• AOA with part of preclinicals (P/F) being factored as part of the scoring process

Kaiser pros:

• Literally $0 to attend medical school
• Huge on student wellness (they have a gym and good food on campus)
• Pasadena is beautiful! Cali weather is wonderful! Tons of nature nearby!
• Extended family is 1.5 hour drive away
• New school = very receptive to student feedback
• Everyone at the school is basically there to make sure you succeed

Kaiser cons:

• Unsure about the longitudinal clerkship model of teaching
• No single main hospital associated with the school. Each student gets assigned to different hospitals for certain rotations
• Hospitals are not "teaching hospitals". Worried that clinical teaching might be lackluster compared to UTSW
• Clerkship locations are anywhere from 30 min to 2.5 hour drive away, although Kaiser pays for student Ubers (but I get super car sick so idk how much I would actually be able to study during these trips). Seems like a big pain to spend potentially 2+ hours every day just commuting through LA traffic
• I am worried that since this is such a new school, name won’t be a factor when it comes to applying to residency (especially since STEP 1 is P/F)
• Limited knowledge about how STEP scores are, match rates, etc.

I just got off the Kaiser WL and have 5 days? (I think?) to decide if I want to accept the position or not. Any help or insight would be SUPER APPRECIATED THANK YOU!!!!
side note: I am also planning on asking UTSW if they would be able to match Kaiser's offer

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[DoneDone3451]

I’d take UTSW but can’t go wrong here

 

[Basalganglia4life]

Take the free medical education and run

 

[Yhwach]

Kaiser

 

[cbum]

Kaiser unless UTSW matches the COA offer. Dallas is a parking lot lol if you're into nature and it'll make your 4 years more enjoyable, then that would be a big plus for going to Cali.

 

[m1redsox]

Given your interest in surgical subs, I think UTSW is the way to go. Exceptional school, and I think the benefits (having all home programs, rubbing shoulders with well known PDs and academics, and having the name to back you) outweigh the price hike. $110k is not bad for a ~T25 school, and Kaiser is simply not well known yet.

 

[Mangoenthusiast]

I also got off the Kaiser waitlist and won’t be attending over a much pricier school… I’d be very skeptical of going somewhere that doesn’t have a home residency program in your specialities of interest. It’ll make it so much harder to match as being a “known quantity” and having people vouch for you is super important, especially with Step 1 being P/F.

I know it’s a lot of money to pay but your starting salary as a surgery attending will be 400K +, and with dedication you can pay off the debt in a few years. Vs. the price of not matching/ having to take extra research years to develop those connections will be a loss of a year or two’s salary, so anywhere from 400K to 800K if you choose to think about it that way.

However, also think about your family goals. I’m as single as a Pringle, so I don’t have to think about the cost of supporting a child or buying a home in the future like you do. If that outweighs what I’ve said above, go with Kaiser. Otherwise, I’d be compelled to pick UTSW.

 

[newkungfukenny]

UTSW. worth the investment imo

 

[CheeesyBoi]

Kaiser

Take the free medical education and run

If UTSW would match full CoA, would you think that would make a significant difference?

 

[CheeesyBoi]

Given your interest in surgical subs, I think UTSW is the way to go. Exceptional school, and I think the benefits (having all home programs, rubbing shoulders with well known PDs and academics, and having the name to back you) outweigh the price hike. $110k is not bad for a ~T25 school, and Kaiser is simply not well known yet.

That is sorta what I have been thinking. However, it is also so hard to turn down free schooling despite having more hoops to jump through when trying to match

 

[CheeesyBoi]

I also got off the Kaiser waitlist and won’t be attending over a much pricier school… I’d be very skeptical of going somewhere that doesn’t have a home residency program in your specialities of interest. It’ll make it so much harder to match as being a “known quantity” and having people vouch for you is super important, especially with Step 1 being P/F.

I know it’s a lot of money to pay but your starting salary as a surgery attending will be 400K +, and with dedication you can pay off the debt in a few years. Vs. the price of not matching/ having to take extra research years to develop those connections will be a loss of a year or two’s salary, so anywhere from 400K to 800K if you choose to think about it that way.

However, also think about your family goals. I’m as single as a Pringle, so I don’t have to think about the cost of supporting a child or buying a home in the future like you do. If that outweighs what I’ve said above, go with Kaiser. Otherwise, I’d be compelled to pick UTSW.

That is such a good point to think about. Thanks for your perspective!

 

[CheeesyBoi]

UTSW. worth the investment imo

Investments such as what was written above? Or something else?

 

[wysdoc]

Background: I am OOS to both of these schools. I am interested in competitive surgical specialties (ortho, plastics, neurosurgery). I am married and my spouse will actively be working, however, we don't think she will be able to cover full CoA. Plus, we will be starting a family during school (which obviously increased cost of living). I am hoping to match either in Texas, California, or Utah.

UTSW pros:

• Amazing, established facilities. Parkland/Clements/Childrens are all nationally recognized hospitals that allow you to see just about everything
• Highly ranked departments in nearly every specialty with amazing learning opportunities during clerkships
• I vibed with the students I met and felt very at home with the student body
• Rigorous curriculum that (from what I understand) produces students that are very competent going into residency
• Spouse and I loved Dallas when we visited
• Current students talk about the exceptional amount of opportunity they have for research, shadowing, leadership, etc., often having to turn down opportunities since they already have so many extracurriculars going on
• 12 weeks of dedicated research time (residency resume builder)
• 75% of students match at 1 of their top 3 institutions
• Received full-tuition scholarship with acceptance offer (idk how much this actually means, but it was meaningful to me since it seemed like they really wanted me to come to UTSW off the bat)

UTSW cons:

• COA will be roughly $110k over the next 4 years (spouse will work, but likely won’t be able to cover full costs)
• Minimal nature surrounding the medical district + not the safest area to live in
• AOA with part of preclinicals (P/F) being factored as part of the scoring process

Kaiser pros:

• Literally $0 to attend medical school
• Huge on student wellness (they have a gym and good food on campus)
• Pasadena is beautiful! Cali weather is wonderful! Tons of nature nearby!
• Extended family is 1.5 hour drive away
• New school = very receptive to student feedback
• Everyone at the school is basically there to make sure you succeed

Kaiser cons:

• Unsure about the longitudinal clerkship model of teaching
• No single main hospital associated with the school. Each student gets assigned to different hospitals for certain rotations
• Hospitals are not "teaching hospitals". Worried that clinical teaching might be lackluster compared to UTSW
• Clerkship locations are anywhere from 30 min to 2.5 hour drive away, although Kaiser pays for student Ubers (but I get super car sick so idk how much I would actually be able to study during these trips). Seems like a big pain to spend potentially 2+ hours every day just commuting through LA traffic
• I am worried that since this is such a new school, name won’t be a factor when it comes to applying to residency (especially since STEP 1 is P/F)
• Limited knowledge about how STEP scores are, match rates, etc.

I just got off the Kaiser WL and have 5 days? (I think?) to decide if I want to accept the position or not. Any help or insight would be SUPER APPRECIATED THANK YOU!!!!
side note: I am also planning on asking UTSW if they would be able to match Kaiser's offer

You have had a successful year with many admissions and recently withdrew from them all except UTSW.
There must be a good reason you liked UTSW so much, to make those moves.
Now you are acting panicky. What if you had never gotten the Kaiser offer? Would you still be finding faults with UTSW?
Take a moment & slow down, career goals -vs- saving on tuition.
You have a full tuition scholarship to UTSW already.
How are you figuring COA at Kaiser is zero?

 

[Mangoenthusiast]

I don't know if this impacts anything at all, but Kaiser is not full COA this year anymore, only full tuition. Unless you qualify for need-based aid that will cover their COA or a special scholarship, I assume it'll be the same cost (if not more cuz LA is expensive). Of course, I don't know what they told you specifically.

 

[CheeesyBoi]

You have had a successful year with many admissions and recently withdrew from them all except UTSW.
There must be a good reason you liked UTSW so much, to make those moves.
Now you are acting panicky. What if you had never gotten the Kaiser offer? Would you still be finding faults with UTSW?
Take a moment & slow down, career goals -vs- saving on tuition.
You have a full tuition scholarship to UTSW already.
How are you figuring COA at Kaiser is zero?

Thank you for the breath of fresh air. You're right, I wouldn't be finding reasons not to attend had I not gotten off the Kaiser WL. The thought of graduating with no debt just seems like such an opportunity and I am scared that I would regret it later if I don't take it. That being said, I also know that UTSW offered me an incredible opportunity and I am also scared that I would regret if I don't take it

I don't know if this impacts anything at all, but Kaiser is not full COA this year anymore, only full tuition. Unless you qualify for need-based aid that will cover their COA or a special scholarship, I assume it'll be the same cost (if not more cuz LA is expensive). Of course, I don't know what they told you specifically.

From my understanding, they still offer need-based aid (of which, based on FAFSA and CSS, I think I should quality for). That is a good point though. After looking at rent prices in Pasadena, we would still have to pay out of pocket for a lot of our living expenses.

 

[Yhwach]

If UTSW would match full CoA, would you think that would make a significant difference?

Yes