US medical schools: How to Apply

[Amandeep]

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Hey, I'm a Canadian and I'm not sure how the American system of applying to medical schools works. Could someone please answer my questions:

1. What are rolling admissions?
2. When's the earliest you can apply for admission into the 2006 entering class? What is the deadline for applications?
3. Are private or public medical schools easier to gain entry into?
4. How are foreigners/Canadians viewed?

Thanks a ton! 😛

 

[Amandeep]

Okay, I don't mean to continue sounding like a dumb-a$$ Canadian:

what are secondaries? I understand its a secondary application. But what does it contain?

Not many replies. I hope I'm not being annoying. Please help!

 

[jebus]

Hey, I'm a Canadian and I'm not sure how the American system of applying to medical schools works. Could someone please answer my questions:

1. What are rolling admissions?
2. When's the earliest you can apply for admission into the 2006 entering class? What is the deadline for applications?
3. Are private or public medical schools easier to gain entry into?
4. How are foreigners/Canadians viewed?

Thanks a ton! 😛

1. Rolling admissions schools accept applications on a rolling basis until their class fills up; it really punishes the procrastinators.
2. June 01, 2005! Better get crack-a-lackin', dawg.
3. Generally, state residency helps you get into public schools. If you are out of state, it is easier to get into private schools, because they don't care: they don't have a state legislature breathing down their necks to educate an indigenous population of physicians. But some state schools accept a lot of out of state students: U. Michigan, UCSF, etc.
4. Most schools have limited spots for international students. They accept some students, but not very many.
I suggest you get the book "Medical School Admissions Requirements" from the AAMC. It answers all of your questions, and I'm sure it will answer others you'll have. And it's only 25 USD. How can you argue with that? (You can't! That's how!)
PS. Is it true that canadians have evolved with fully functional pancreases?

 

[Amandeep]

Thanks a bunch! I'm afraid it's too late though now. Can I still apply this year? I haven't started anything and I'm reading about people already getting interviews! Have I shot my chances?

 

[jebus]

Thanks a bunch! I'm afraid it's too late though now. Can I still apply this year? I haven't started anything and I'm reading about people already getting interviews! Have I shot my chances?

I hope you haven't shot your chances because if you have then I have, too!
Most schools' deadlines for the primary application is one of the following dates: October 15, 31, November 15, 30, December 15, 31. So, at the earliest you have a month and a half.
Secondaries have more essays, they tell you where to send your letters of Rec, and your application fee. (That one's important!)
You didn't ask, but the primary application fee is $150 (it might be $180, I don't remember) for the first school and $30 for each subsequent school.
And the MSAR book also has information for Canadian schools.
Don't think I didn't notice you didn't answer MY question.

 

[MoosePilot]

Thanks a bunch! I'm afraid it's too late though now. Can I still apply this year? I haven't started anything and I'm reading about people already getting interviews! Have I shot my chances?

You've probably hurt your chances. I doubt you've shot them if you get on the ball. Check out www.aamc.org and look for an AMCAS link.

 

[Amandeep]

Thanks for the information! Sorry, I didn't even notice your question and so to answer it: Yes, Canadians have evolved fully functional pancreases, as hard as it may be to believe!

Do you know anything about Mayo Medical School? I'm at there website right now and they seem too good to be true! I bet the competition is fierce to get in there!

 

[gujuDoc]

Thanks a bunch! I'm afraid it's too late though now. Can I still apply this year? I haven't started anything and I'm reading about people already getting interviews! Have I shot my chances?

Its not too late, just get started on it ASAP and get everything as soon as possible. I had several friends apply this time of the year last year......they were waitlisted at first but got in eventually. Others got in right away, even with applying this late. So you should go ahead and apply.

 

[Amandeep]

Thanks for your advice! I initially wasn't going to apply to any US medical schools. But now I've decided to apply to the ones with the lowest tuition/fees, just because MONEY is a big PROBLEM for me! I can't totally rely on bank loans!

 

[chandelantern]

Thanks for the information! Sorry, I didn't even notice your question and so to answer it: Yes, Canadians have evolved fully functional pancreases, as hard as it may be to believe!

Do you know anything about Mayo Medical School? I'm at there website right now and they seem too good to be true! I bet the competition is fierce to get in there!

Yes, mayo is too good to be true...they do not take international applicants. Did you take the MCAT's? Because you're so close (in canada) there might be some schools that wouldn't count you as an international resident, but they you would have to take the mcats for sure.

 

[jebus]

Thanks for the information! Sorry, I didn't even notice your question and so to answer it: Yes, Canadians have evolved fully functional pancreases, as hard as it may be to believe!

Do you know anything about Mayo Medical School? I'm at there website right now and they seem too good to be true! I bet the competition is fierce to get in there!

According to the MSAR book, the Mayo Clinic is redonkulously competitive. 2462 applicants and only 42 matriculants - and unfortunately no international students marticulated, but please don't let that deter you. An average MCAT of 33Q, with an avg. science GPA of 3.88, and avg. cumulative GPA of 3.9. The AMCAS deadline is November 1, 2005.
I'm gonna go to the gym, but if you have more questions someone else will answer them or I'll be back on later.
PS. I'm glad that pancreas is working out for you.

 

[Amandeep]

According to the MSAR book, the Mayo Clinic is redonkulously competitive. 2462 applicants and only 42 matriculants - and unfortunately no international students marticulated, but please don't let that deter you. An average MCAT of 33Q, with an avg. science GPA of 3.88, and avg. cumulative GPA of 3.9. The AMCAS deadline is November 1, 2005.
I'm gonna go to the gym, but if you have more questions someone else will answer them or I'll be back on later.
PS. I'm glad that pancreas is working out for you.

Holy Crap! 😱 I know that you obviously didn't post that to discourage me, but it completely has discouraged me from applying there! My science GPA is pretty low...it's about 3.49....so I don't stand a chance! I've written the MCAT and I have no idea what my score will be but I'm sure its greater than a 26...which is also less than stellar 🙁

 

[jebus]

Holy Crap! 😱 I know that you obviously didn't post that to discourage me, but it completely has discouraged me from applying there! My science GPA is pretty low...it's about 3.49....so I don't stand a chance! I've written the MCAT and I have no idea what my score will be but I'm sure its greater than a 26...which is also less than stellar 🙁

Damnation, I didn't want to intimidate you! Mayo is more selective than other major schools, it seems: harvard had 5393 applicants and 165 matriculants for 2004. If you can apply to the university of minnesota they had 2744 applicants and 218 matriculants for 2004. avg. mcat: 31Q, avg sci. GPA is 3.69, and cum GPA is 3.71. Keep in mind these are averages! (or medians, I forgot which) Half are above and half are below. Of course, if you apply early your chances go up, so start crackin'!

 

[Amandeep]

Thanks for your advice, desiredusername. I'm actually just going to apply to the private schools with the lowest tuition/fees which are: Baylor and Howard. I would have applied to the cheapest public schools but I don't think I have a good chance at that since they have a quota of in-state students to meet.

I know I should have applied early, I'm kicking myself for that now!

All this stress is wearing down my pancreas...on second thought this Canadians pancreas may not be fully functional after all.

 

[Amandeep]

Ooohh....I forgot to ask you, do you know the statistics for applicants/accepted for

Baylor and
Howard...

How are those schools? Are they really competitive too....give me some good news!

 

[chandelantern]

Ooohh....I forgot to ask you, do you know the statistics for applicants/accepted for

Baylor and
Howard...

How are those schools? Are they really competitive too....give me some good news!

According to the MSAR:

Howard median MCAT 8,8,8,O; median overall gpa 3.32, median science gpa 3.1; yes, they accept international apps

Baylor median MCAT 10,10,11P; median overall gpa 3.8, median science 3.78; yes, they accept international apps

 

[Amandeep]

According to the MSAR:

Howard median MCAT 8,8,8,O; median overall gpa 3.32, median science gpa 3.1; yes, they accept international apps

Baylor median MCAT 10,10,11P; median overall gpa 3.8, median science 3.78; yes, they accept international apps

Thanks so much! Does MSAR say how many people apply to each of these schools and how many people are accepted? That would really help! Thanks! 😉

 

[Amandeep]

Awwww......come on people...help a desperate pre-med out! Nobody has the statistics for how many people apply to Baylor and Howard University and how many people get accepted??

It's in your MSAR book sitting on your desk. Pwwease help....🙁

 

[jebus]

Thanks so much! Does MSAR say how many people apply to each of these schools and how many people are accepted? That would really help! Thanks! 😉

Howard: 4430 applicants and 107 matriculants (of these, they had 320 int'l applicants and 14 int'l matriculants).
Baylor: 4134 applicants and 168 matriculants (with 176 int'l applicants and 2 int'l matriculants). My book also says baylor had a median MCAT of 11:12:12:Q, not 31P. (31P is the national average, I think that's where the ambiguity arose.)
May I ask why you want to come to the states? Just to cover your arse? Or do you WANT to come here? I've actually been really impressed by Canadian schools, I was very close to attending McGill for my undergraduate education. They assigned me to a dorm, gave me an email address and everything. (I sort of wish I went, they offered me a full ride and now that I've been out of school for a few years that seems really attractive in retrospect.)
As an aside, to anyone reading this: Um, wanna read my personal statement? (and subsequently tell me what you think?) I will gladly reciprocate.

 

[Amandeep]

Howard: 4430 applicants and 107 matriculants (of these, they had 320 int'l applicants and 14 int'l matriculants).
Baylor: 4134 applicants and 168 matriculants (with 176 int'l applicants and 2 int'l matriculants). My book also says baylor had a median MCAT of 11:12:12:Q, not 31P. (31P is the national average, I think that's where the ambiguity arose.)
May I ask why you want to come to the states? Just to cover your arse? Or do you WANT to come here? I've actually been really impressed by Canadian schools, I was very close to attending McGill for my undergraduate education. They assigned me to a dorm, gave me an email address and everything. (I sort of wish I went, they offered me a full ride and now that I've been out of school for a few years that seems really attractive in retrospect.)
As an aside, to anyone reading this: Um, wanna read my personal statement? (and subsequently tell me what you think?) I will gladly reciprocate.

Thanks so much for these numbers....are they for the 2004/2005 application cycle?? I want to come to a US school in case I don't get into a Canadian one.....I guess you could call it covering my arse if ya want. But looking at the statistics it looks very grim. I probably won't apply.

Anyways, how long is your personal statement? If it's not too too long, I wouldn't mind reading it and giving you some form of feedback. 🙂

 

[Amandeep]

Hey i was also wondering if there's anyway to get these statistics without buying the MSAR book...aren't these numbers published elsewhere on a website or something??

 

[morgan]

desiredusername - I'll read your personal statement.

Amandeep - You do know that Howard is for blacks, right? Just making sure! 😉

 

[morgan]

Hey i was also wondering if there's anyway to get these statistics without buying the MSAR book...aren't these numbers published elsewhere on a website or something??

Buy the book.

Do you guys call black people African-Canadians?

 

[Amandeep]

desiredusername - I'll read your personal statement.

Amandeep - You do know that Howard is for blacks, right? Just making sure! 😉

I'm sorry...what do you mean that it's FOR blacks.....like, does that mean that other people of different races/colors can NOT apply...or that other racial groups don't stand a chance of getting in????

I'm confused... 😕

 

[Amandeep]

Buy the book.

Do you guys call black people African-Canadians?

Um..so there's no other way of getting the stats if it's not from MSAR?

Yup, blacks are called African-Canadians! 🙂

 

[jebus]

Thanks so much for these numbers....are they for the 2004/2005 application cycle?? I want to come to a US school in case I don't get into a Canadian one.....I guess you could call it covering my arse if ya want. But looking at the statistics it looks very grim. I probably won't apply
Anyways, how long is your personal statement? If it's not too too long, I wouldn't mind reading it and giving you some form of feedback. 🙂

All of the numbers I've spewed are from the 2004-2005 first year class.
As I said earlier, the MSAR has the canadian schools, as well. For instance, McGill had 500 resident applicants and 150 resident matriculants. The average MCAT was VR10😛S11:BS10
My personal statement is less than 5300 characters! (about a page)
I'm [email protected]

 

[jebus]

Hey i was also wondering if there's anyway to get these statistics without buying the MSAR book...aren't these numbers published elsewhere on a website or something??

I think you can go to each school's website. Frankly, if you have any questions, people here (me, namely) will likely tell you anything you need to know from the book.
Oh, and morgan, cool, thank you. Can I just send it in a PM or something?

 

[morgan]

I'm sorry...what do you mean that it's FOR blacks.....like, does that mean that other people of different races/colors can NOT apply...or that other racial groups don't stand a chance of getting in????

I'm confused... 😕

It's historically black. In a class of 107 there are 81 black people, 5 white people, 5 asian indians, one pakistani, one korean, four puerto rican, one mexican american... you get the picture.

 

[morgan]

Can I just send it in a PM or something?

yep

 

[Amandeep]

I think you can go to each school's website. Frankly, if you have any questions, people here (me, namely) will likely tell you anything you need to know from the book.
Oh, and morgan, cool, thank you. Can I just send it in a PM or something?

Thanks alot...I really appreciate it..I just don't want to be an annoying nag. I went to Howard's website and it doesn't have much information. But..now apparently according to morgan it's a school for African-Americans? Do you know anything about this because I'm not black...

 

[Amandeep]

It's historically black. In a class of 107 there are 81 black people, 5 white people, 5 asian indians, one pakistani, one korean, four puerto rican, one mexican american... you get the picture.

Oh I see...does the school actually state any kind of policy that mentions that they are biased towards admitting black people? Or is it an unmentioned type of thing?

 

[morgan]

Oh I see...does the school actually state any kind of policy that mentions that they are biased towards admitting black people? Or is it an unmentioned type of thing?

You really need to get the MSAR! 😛 "Candidates for admission and alternates are selected from those applicants who satisfy the criteria and who are most likely to serve in communities needing physician services." The criteria are character, motivation for a career in medicine, scholastic record, MCAT, and LORs. They say they will evaluate applicants regardless of national or ethnic origin... but my guess is "most likely to serve in communities needing physician services" = URMs

 

[Amandeep]

morgan, thanks for the information. I'm a Canadian-Indian....I don't think I stand a chance of getting in...the numbers are crazy! Sorry for being a bug...I really need to get the MSAR...I didn't know how important it was!

 

[jebus]

Oh I see...does the school actually state any kind of policy that mentions that they are biased towards admitting black people? Or is it an unmentioned type of thing?

If they have a policy it is a poorly kept secret. Not to be a broken record, but from the MSAR: "The Howard University College of Medicine is the oldest and largest historically black medical college in the United States..." They go on to explain their mission, and claim to have trained nearly one half of all black physicians in the US.(!)
They also say they have an obligation to provide quality medical education regardless of race, creed (even if the student is evil?), sex, or national origin, but with emphasis on poor people, specifically/historically blacks. Out of 107 students, 81 are black. That's 26 non-black students....

 

[morgan]

If they have a policy it is a poorly kept secret. Not to be a broken record, but from the MSAR: "The Howard University College of Medicine is the oldest and largest historically black medical college in the United States..." They go on to explain their mission, and claim to have trained nearly one half of all black physicians in the US.(!)
They also say they have an obligation to provide quality medical education regardless of race, creed (even if the student is evil?), sex, or national origin, but with emphasis on poor people, specifically/historically blacks. Out of 107 students, 81 are black. That's 26 non-black students....

But still, I think a Canadian-Indian would round out the class. 🙂 What does that mean exactly? From India or Native-Canadian???

I really want to kill whoever first called native people Indians. They made life so confusing. Well, lucky for me, they're already dead. 🙄

 

[Amandeep]

But still, I think a Canadian-Indian would round out the class. 🙂 What does that mean exactly? From India or Native-Canadian???

I really want to kill whoever first called native people Indians. They made life so confusing. Well, lucky for me, they're already dead. 🙄

No, I'm not Native...I was born in Canada but my parents were born and raised in India. I know it's confusing....but what can you do...LOL!

 

[Amandeep]

If they have a policy it is a poorly kept secret. Not to be a broken record, but from the MSAR: "The Howard University College of Medicine is the oldest and largest historically black medical college in the United States..." They go on to explain their mission, and claim to have trained nearly one half of all black physicians in the US.(!)
They also say they have an obligation to provide quality medical education regardless of race, creed (even if the student is evil?), sex, or national origin, but with emphasis on poor people, specifically/historically blacks. Out of 107 students, 81 are black. That's 26 non-black students....

Isn't it weird how they can claim two complete opposites? They say that they do not discriminate against race, creed or national orgin and then they go ahead and do just that! 😛

 

[jebus]

Isn't it weird how they can claim two complete opposites? They say that they do not discriminate against race, creed or national orgin and then they go ahead and do just that! 😛

Shh! You're gonna get in all sorts of trouble if you think about it too much! They don't "discriminate", per se. They just have a priority to educate those who historically have not had a chance to practice medicine/acquire an education. It makes sense insofar as they really serve a valuable service by educating URMs. (under-represented minorities). Think about it this way, in the US blacks and other URMs have higher infant mortality, lower life expectancies, lower income; less education. The system has really worked against them for years and now we can do something about it.
Howard also says they have 5 Indians and 1 Pakistani (why they differentiate is beyond me. My parents were both born in modern day Pakistan and then moved to India in 1947. So that makes me? Well, I'm Indian, I guess...). In contrast to other minority groups, Indians in the US have an over 70% college graduation rate (compared to 24% for the rest of the population) and they have a median household income of over $100,000/year. I think the median household income in the US is about $40,000/year.

EDIT: ok, my numbers were off, I went by memory and decided to look it up. The actual numbers are: 64% college graduation rate, compared with 24% for the US as a total. And a median household income of $71K, compared with a $50K for the US. All of these numbers are from www.census.gov. (I'm a numbers freak, in case you haven't noticed.) Still, these are really high and they sort of explain why, as an Indian, you will have trouble getting love. I mean, love from med school adcoms, not love in general.

 

[DesiMcatAcer]

desiredusername,
I can read your personal statement and give you some feedback of what I thought about it.

 

[Amandeep]

Shh! You're gonna get in all sorts of trouble if you think about it too much! They don't "discriminate", per se. They just have a priority to educate those who historically have not had a chance to practice medicine/acquire an education. It makes sense insofar as they really serve a valuable service by educating URMs. (under-represented minorities). Think about it this way, in the US blacks and other URMs have higher infant mortality, lower life expectancies, lower income; less education. The system has really worked against them for years and now we can do something about it.
Howard also says they have 5 Indians and 1 Pakistani (why they differentiate is beyond me. My parents were both born in modern day Pakistan and then moved to India in 1947. So that makes me? Well, I'm Indian, I guess...). In contrast to other minority groups, Indians in the US have an over 70% college graduation rate (compared to 24% for the rest of the population) and they have a median household income of over $100,000/year. I think the median household income in the US is about $40,000/year.

Wow...Indian folk are doing quite well in the US, eh? I guess Howard's policy is not so bad, seeing the way you put it.

 

[docbill]

East Indians do really well in Canada as well. So I don't know what is so impresive.

By the way, there is nothing wrong with a school prefering african americans. They are underepresented in medicine and just like other religious based schools they have every right to recruit who ever they wish. I also, personally think people of other races should not complain or think it unfair.

 

[psychMajor]

Important question!

I am Canadian and iam applying ASAP....i wrote the MCAT this august....and my marks take 6 more weeks to get to me...

.....do schools wait until they get my mcat scores then send me secondary?

thanks

 

[jebus]

Important question!

I am Canadian and iam applying ASAP....i wrote the MCAT this august....and my marks take 6 more weeks to get to me...

.....do schools wait until they get my mcat scores then send me secondary?

thanks

I'm pretty sure they do wait until they get your scores to send you a secondary. Many schools use an algorithm including your grades and your MCAT scores to determine whether or not to send you a secondary.
But when you submit your primary application to AMCAS they must verify your grades/transcript before they send your application to the schools. I'm pretty sure they do this on a first come - first served basis; they don't wait for your MCAT scores. So, among other reasons, that's a good reason to apply ASAP.

 

[docbill]

many schools automatically send you secondary .. and on that secondary they ask you if you wrote the Aug exam.

If you think you did well on MCAT and have good cGPA. And are confident then apply now.

 

[psychMajor]

many schools automatically send you secondary .. and on that secondary they ask you if you wrote the Aug exam.

If you think you did well on MCAT and have good cGPA. And are confident then apply now.

the interviews people are getting is for next year?...why are schools interviewing so early???

 

[docbill]

Yes the interviews are for people starting in Aug. or Sep. 2006. 11-12 month from now.

In the states they start much earlier. Also many schools are on rolling basis. Meaning they accept people early if they apply early and the admissions committee accepts them.

 

[gujuDoc]

Yes the interviews are for people starting in Aug. or Sep. 2006. 11-12 month from now.

In the states they start much earlier. Also many schools are on rolling basis. Meaning they accept people early if they apply early and the admissions committee accepts them.

To add to this, the first acceptances generally go out on October 15th for regular admission. For Texas schools it might be different, and for early decision they find out before the October 15th date too.