USC vs. Rutgers vs. Jefferson vs. Maryland

[GS1905]

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Hey guys, I'm trying to decide between these 4 Pharmacy Schools - USC in LA, Rutgers in NJ, Thomas Jefferson in Philly, and UofMaryland (UMB - Baltimore campus). I have my B.S. from Rutgers and I'm a resident of Jersey - never lived in any other state. I don't want to list any specific pros/cons because I feel that it will cause people to feed into my bias. I'm open to moving out of state so no restrictions there. I will also be living on my own wherever I end up - even at Rutgers. My career goals are oriented towards the pharmaceutical industry. So just point out what you think or whatever information you have about these programs/schools that you think might help me make a better decision. I already know Rutgers but feel free to point out anything I should consider about it. Any and all input will be very much appreciated! Thanks!

By the way, here are the tuition costs (for me) in case anyone was wondering (scholarships/institutional aid TBD). I'm certainly not rich so money does matter but I haven't really decided how much it should matter because sometimes the pros may outweigh such costs so I'm definitely keeping an open mind about all 4 schools.

Tuition costs only (not including other fees, living, food, etc.):
Rutgers - $15K/year (State school; in-state)
Jefferson - $34K/year, P4=$46K? (Private)
USC - $47K/year (Private)
UMB - $36K/year (however, since this is also a state school like Rutgers, it will probably reduce to in-state tuition of $18K/year for years 2-4 after I show Maryland residency status following the first year).

Looking forward to reading all the responses. Thanks again for all the help guys!

 

[oldstock]

Hey guys, I'm trying to decide between these 4 Pharmacy Schools - USC in LA, Rutgers in NJ, Thomas Jefferson in Philly, and UofMaryland (UMB - Baltimore campus). I have my B.S. from Rutgers and I'm a resident of Jersey - never lived in any other state. I don't want to list any specific pros/cons because I feel that it will cause people to feed into my bias. I'm open to moving out of state so no restrictions there. I will also be living on my own wherever I end up - even at Rutgers. My career goals are oriented towards the pharmaceutical industry. So just point out what you think or whatever information you have about these programs/schools that you think might help me make a better decision. I already know Rutgers but feel free to point out anything I should consider about it. Any and all input will be very much appreciated! Thanks!

By the way, here are the tuition costs (for me) in case anyone was wondering (scholarships/institutional aid TBD). I'm certainly not rich so money does matter but I haven't really decided how much it should matter because sometimes the pros may outweigh such costs so I'm definitely keeping an open mind about all 4 schools.

Tuition costs only (not including other fees, living, food, etc.):
Rutgers - $15K/year (State school; in-state)
Jefferson - $34K/year, P4=$46K? (Private)
USC - $47K/year (Private)
UMB - $36K/year (however, since this is also a state school like Rutgers, it will probably reduce to in-state tuition of $18K/year for years 2-4 after I show Maryland residency status following the first year).
Looking forward to reading all the responses. Thanks again for all the help guys!

To rank the schools, I am using those links below as guides,

http://pharmacy-schools.findthebest.com/

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankings...-schools/top-health-schools/pharmacy-rankings

I have to say that I am not taking those rankings too seriously. But you have probably seen people are talking about where you go to school would matter more in the future in terms of residency and/or employment prospects. For examples,

I know. new schools they are, though.

It just doesn't make it look good for pharmacy is all I'm saying. My opinion. And clearly other people feel similarly judging by how many preceptors and educators I've heard saying they don't want to precept students from newer schools. I don't want to turn this thread into a new school vs. whatever debate., though. I'm just pointing out recent events and all lumped together, it doesn't look good.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/lawsuit-against-california-northstate-cp.915119/

I can only speak for two health systems I have worked for over the past 4 years. We do not take any students for internships from the newish pharmacy school in our state, nor do we interview them for residencies. Our clinical pharmacy team is made up of all pharmacists from established programs in state and out of state, some residency trained and others hired after years of experience. Same goes for my previous hospital as well.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/the-four-ca-schools-opening-up.1056428/#post-15039840
I do not think it is right to judge a pharmacy graduate based on the schools he or she went to, but to judge him or her on his or her own merits (e.g. what he has done in pharmacy school and for his pharmacy school like GPA, researches, extracurriculars, recommendations, NAPLEX, etc.) There are many who are thinking like I do here,

As someone pointed out, St. Joe's and Midway are non-profits. So could we generalize and say that all non-profit pharmacy schools are bad? No.

A pharmacy professor from UGA was involved in some VERY shady stuff a few years ago that resulted in the NAPLEX being suspended for a time... we don't view that as an indictment against all public, state-supported pharmacy schools, do we?

I don't think there are even that many proprietary pharmacy schools. Fewer than five, I think. The two I'm most familiar with are doing very well.

There are new schools that struggle, to be sure. But there are also established schools that are consistently bottom of the barrel on NAPLEX scores and have recurrent issues with maintaining accreditation and retaining faculty.

My point is that generalizations aren't that useful. Or accurate.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/lawsuit-against-california-northstate-cp.915119/page-3

My sister graduated from northstate in its inaugural class. She passed her boards and law exams for California and national all first try. And now she's doing very well. Just pick whatever school you think is a good fit for you

But it is true that this whole stereotype and prejudice is very much alive in many ways anyway, unspoken or unofficially. So the bottom line is better safe than sorry, i.e. to go for the school that many people rank highly if you can to avoid future complication. (Sigh 🙁 )


Sorry for my rants, but I think there are 3 important factors to base your decision to select/rank the schools you want to go here:

1. schools' rankings

2. tuition

3. research-orientation


UMB scores pretty consistently on the 2 ranking lists/links I found above. If you could be sure about obtaining Maryland residency, UMB would be my #1 pick for overall sores for the school's ranking, cheap in-state tuition, and research. I recently was interviewed at a school whose residency policy allowed out of state students to change/apply for in-state status after a year. But the admission school representative there cautioned us that the university would make it very hard to obtain in-state status. Find out in details what you have to do to obtain the in-state status and how many or what percentage of out-of-state student were successful doing that in the past.

Rutgers would be my #2 pick for overall score in ranking, supercheap in-state tuition, and research. If you found out that your chance of getting Maryland's in-state tuition is less than 60%, I would go to Rutgers.

USF would be my #3 pick for ranking and negative points for superhigh tution (not sure about reseach), but I am ready to scratch this off the list anytime just because of the sky-high tuition alone.

Jefferson is my last pick, #4, for ranking and also negative point for high tuition (I dont know about its research programs there).


So, check with UMB about your chance for in-state tuition and the details of how to do it. If you can get it, then you should go to UMB. If you cannot, you should go to Rutgers.

GL 🙂

 

[GS1905]

To rank the schools, I am using those links below as guides,

http://pharmacy-schools.findthebest.com/

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankings...-schools/top-health-schools/pharmacy-rankings

I have to say that I am not taking those rankings too seriously. But you have probably seen people are talking about where you go to school would matter more in the future in terms of residency and/or employment prospects. For examples,



http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/lawsuit-against-california-northstate-cp.915119/




http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/the-four-ca-schools-opening-up.1056428/#post-15039840
I do not think it is right to judge a pharmacy graduate based on the schools he or she went to, but to judge him or her on his or her own merits (e.g. what he has done in pharmacy school and for his pharmacy school like GPA, researches, extracurriculars, recommendations, NAPLEX, etc.) There are many who are thinking like I do here,



http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/lawsuit-against-california-northstate-cp.915119/page-3




But it is true that this whole stereotype and prejudice is very much alive in many ways anyway, unspoken or unofficially. So the bottom line is better safe than sorry, i.e. to go for the school that many people rank highly if you can to avoid future complication. (Sigh 🙁 )


Sorry for my rants, but I think there are 3 important factors to base your decision to select/rank the schools you want to go here:

1. schools' rankings

2. tuition

3. research-orientation


UMB scores pretty consistently on the 2 ranking lists/links I found above. If you could be sure about obtaining Maryland residency, UMB would be my #1 pick for overall sores for the school's ranking, cheap in-state tuition, and research. I recently was interviewed at a school whose residency policy allowed out of state students to change/apply for in-state status after a year. But the admission school representative there cautioned us that the university would make it very hard to obtain in-state status. Find out in details what you have to do to obtain the in-state status and how many or what percentage of out-of-state student were successful doing that in the past.

Rutgers would be my #2 pick for overall score in ranking, supercheap in-state tuition, and research. If you found out that your chance of getting Maryland's in-state tuition is less than 60%, I would go to Rutgers.

USF would be my #3 pick for ranking and negative points for superhigh tution (not sure about reseach), but I am ready to scratch this off the list anytime just because of the sky-high tuition alone.

Jefferson is my last pick, #4, for ranking and also negative point for high tuition (I dont know about its research programs there).


So, check with UMB about your chance for in-state tuition and the details of how to do it. If you can get it, then you should go to UMB. If you cannot, you should go to Rutgers.

GL 🙂

Wow thanks so much for the in-depth analysis. I really appreciate it and it really helps! And now I'm going to go on a rant of my own haha... This is pretty similar to what I've been thinking because I also do think USC is very expensive and mortgaging my future just to be in a good school in California might not be the best idea. The biggest factor for going to a California school would be to set up my career and therefore, my future there but I feel that I could go elsewhere, save money, and later on try and get a job in California anyways. Plus from what I've been reading, the pharmacy field is apparently getting saturated and more and more people have to become willing to relocate in order to find a good job... As for Rutgers, having already graduated from there, I feel that I already know the culture there, and going somewhere else for grad school will be more exciting and I can diversify myself more doing so (learn different things, meet different types of people, gain new perspectives, etc.). The cost being so low though and the program paving the way to a good career in the industry (especially with pharma industry in NJ being the biggest in the country) definitely forces me to consider it. They have a lot of fellowship programs with the companies over here (anyone can apply, but Rutgers kids probably get priority). UMB is probably the best choice on this list as you said IF I can get those in-state tuition for years 2-4 or else I'd just be paying double the money to go to a school that is sort of similar to Rutgers, but in Maryland (but also slightly better than Rutgers). However, they do have John Hopkins right there and the industry around Bethesda, MD is growing as well, and I'm still close enough to NJ to come back and work here. Finally, the reason I'm considering Jefferson is that I really liked the school, their program/curriculum, faculty, the area, etc. Jefferson hospital is ranked #17 overall in the country in healthcare delivery and consistently ranks high across many different specialties. Their medical school program is very established and is regarded very highly. Similar things can be said of their other health science programs as well. Although pharmacy program is still kind of new there (will have had 3 graduating classes by the time I would start), they've had 100% NAPLEX pass rate thus far which is not something to be taken lightly. Only thing about them is that they are more geared towards clinical and I'd probably come back to Jersey to apply for internships here myself and the fellowship programs at Rutgers... So I guess the determining factors here would be the tuition as you said and which school I feel will prepare me the best for my future career goals.

I'm also a believer of the thinking that "it doesn't matter where you go; it matters what you make of it." I feel that you can either go to a really established school with a big class and just cruise through without becoming a focal point (as in Rutgers, USC & Maryland) or you can go to a smaller school and try and become the shining star (as in Jeff). Either way, it really comes down to whether only the end-result or the means of getting to that end result or both matter to you as an individual. And to be honest, for me, both matter. However, it's undeniable that most people will advocate the fact that your first job depends on your school but after that, your career depends on what you do at your job. So there are so many ways to look at it as you pointed out in your post. I'm just not sure which one to weigh more heavily... sighhh 🙁 (and now my biases kick in by the way)

 

[oldstock]

Wow thanks so much for the in-depth analysis. I really appreciate it and it really helps! And now I'm going to go on a rant of my own haha... This is pretty similar to what I've been thinking because I also do think USC is very expensive and mortgaging my future just to be in a good school in California might not be the best idea. The biggest factor for going to a California school would be to set up my career and therefore, my future there but I feel that I could go elsewhere, save money, and later on try and get a job in California anyways. Plus from what I've been reading, the pharmacy field is apparently getting saturated and more and more people have to become willing to relocate in order to find a good job... As for Rutgers, having already graduated from there, I feel that I already know the culture there, and going somewhere else for grad school will be more exciting and I can diversify myself more doing so (learn different things, meet different types of people, gain new perspectives, etc.). The cost being so low though and the program paving the way to a good career in the industry (especially with pharma industry in NJ being the biggest in the country) definitely forces me to consider it. They have a lot of fellowship programs with the companies over here (anyone can apply, but Rutgers kids probably get priority). UMB is probably the best choice on this list as you said IF I can get those in-state tuition for years 2-4 or else I'd just be paying double the money to go to a school that is sort of similar to Rutgers, but in Maryland (but also slightly better than Rutgers). However, they do have John Hopkins right there and the industry around Bethesda, MD is growing as well, and I'm still close enough to NJ to come back and work here. Finally, the reason I'm considering Jefferson is that I really liked the school, their program/curriculum, faculty, the area, etc. Jefferson hospital is ranked #17 overall in the country in healthcare delivery and consistently ranks high across many different specialties. Their medical school program is very established and is regarded very highly. Similar things can be said of their other health science programs as well. Although pharmacy program is still kind of new there (will have had 3 graduating classes by the time I would start), they've had 100% NAPLEX pass rate thus far which is not something to be taken lightly. Only thing about them is that they are more geared towards clinical and I'd probably come back to Jersey to apply for internships here myself and the fellowship programs at Rutgers... So I guess the determining factors here would be the tuition as you said and which school I feel will prepare me the best for my future career goals.

I'm also a believer of the thinking that "it doesn't matter where you go; it matters what you make of it." I feel that you can either go to a really established school with a big class and just cruise through without becoming a focal point (as in Rutgers, USC & Maryland) or you can go to a smaller school and try and become the shining star (as in Jeff). Either way, it really comes down to whether only the end-result or the means of getting to that end result or both matter to you as an individual. And to be honest, for me, both matter. However, it's undeniable that most people will advocate the fact that your first job depends on your school but after that, your career depends on what you do at your job. So there are so many ways to look at it as you pointed out in your post. I'm just not sure which one to weigh more heavily... sighhh 🙁 (and now my biases kick in by the way)

reading you post again, my final vote is Rutgers !

Excellent post btw !! 🙂

 

[DrDrugs2012]

My touting of Maryland is well established so I see no need to rehash. But I will say this much - unless NAPLEX pass rates are truly atrocious (<80%), then its rather meaningless. Some schools flat out do not teach to the NAPLEX - Maryland doesnt. Their curriculum barely acknowledges the existence of the NAPLEX. Other schools specifically teach to the exam. As a result, pass rates are different, but not statistically different. So at the end of the day, your ability to pass the exam is less about the school and more about the student - you. The curricula at all schools meet standards set by the ACPE so where schools distinguish themselves is in the ancillary benefits they offer. Its not about the classroom (there is truth to the idea that a pharmd is a pharmd) - its about what you do with your time advancing yourself professionally outside of the classroom and some schools are simply superior in that regard. Between a wide array of rotations to research, administration to teaching, advocacy to networking - not all schools are made equal. So I recommend you take a long hard look at where you want to go in life (with a pharmd, that is) and which school will clear the brush and pave the road. No sense wasting time doing those things yourself.

 

[oldstock]

My touting of Maryland is well established so I see no need to rehash. But I will say this much - unless NAPLEX pass rates are truly atrocious (<80%), then its rather meaningless. Some schools flat out do not teach to the NAPLEX - Maryland doesnt. Their curriculum barely acknowledges the existence of the NAPLEX. Other schools specifically teach to the exam. As a result, pass rates are different, but not statistically different. So at the end of the day, your ability to pass the exam is less about the school and more about the student - you. The curricula at all schools meet standards set by the ACPE so where schools distinguish themselves is in the ancillary benefits they offer. Its not about the classroom (there is truth to the idea that a pharmd is a pharmd) - its about what you do with your time advancing yourself professionally outside of the classroom and some schools are simply superior in that regard. Between a wide array of rotations to research, administration to teaching, advocacy to networking - not all schools are made equal. So I recommend you take a long hard look at where you want to go in life (with a pharmd, that is) and which school will clear the brush and pave the road. No sense wasting time doing those things yourself.

excellent post !! 🙂

if you had to pick one or rank the schools above, which one would you pick and in what order ??

 

[DrDrugs2012]

My opinions are trivial because I weigh things differently because I value things differently. How one places value on specific characteristics of a school changes how you evaluate a school.

For example, let us say that attending Rutgers gives a 40% chance of landing the job of dreams and life desired. Maryland might only be 30%. But Marylands chance of scoring life #2 might be 80% compared to 20% at Rutgers. So the cumulative probability of an acceptable life outcome might be higher at Maryland.

Another example might be even simpler. I value social networking a great deal higher than others. Its ever more important today considering the job situation we have today. But all social betworking isnt made equal. I am sure that Campbell in NC and Drake in Iowa network just fine among their region but that doesnt help someone looking for a job in Washington DC in advocacy.

So everyone needs to identify the traits that make pharmacy school desirable, weight them, rank them, and map out how they might variably alter their outcomes. Its the "finance" of picking schools (nothing to do with money). in many ways we all do this already... just at a far more superficial level.

 

[GS1905]

My touting of Maryland is well established so I see no need to rehash. But I will say this much - unless NAPLEX pass rates are truly atrocious (<80%), then its rather meaningless. Some schools flat out do not teach to the NAPLEX - Maryland doesnt. Their curriculum barely acknowledges the existence of the NAPLEX. Other schools specifically teach to the exam. As a result, pass rates are different, but not statistically different. So at the end of the day, your ability to pass the exam is less about the school and more about the student - you. The curricula at all schools meet standards set by the ACPE so where schools distinguish themselves is in the ancillary benefits they offer. Its not about the classroom (there is truth to the idea that a pharmd is a pharmd) - its about what you do with your time advancing yourself professionally outside of the classroom and some schools are simply superior in that regard. Between a wide array of rotations to research, administration to teaching, advocacy to networking - not all schools are made equal. So I recommend you take a long hard look at where you want to go in life (with a pharmd, that is) and which school will clear the brush and pave the road. No sense wasting time doing those things yourself.

Thanks for all the input! You touched on really great points. It definitely helps to know that NAPLEX pass rates and set up of the curriculum are pretty much insignificant measures for choosing a school (unless they are below par as you mentioned). Networking is something I'm especially putting a lot of emphasis on because my career goal of working in the industry makes networking that much more important for me. And it seems like Rutgers and Maryland would both establish this very well. I gather from your post that you know quite a bit about Maryland though. If you don't mind me asking, did you do your PharmD there? And if so, could you please elaborate on your experience?

 

[DrDrugs2012]

For professional reasons, I maintain anonimity with regards to my affiliation with Maryland's school of pharmacy. All I will admit to is that I have access to some inside information coupled with my own professional experience. While I will never reveal the access I have to folks on the inside, I am happy to draw inferences and guide students towards making better decisions for themselves.

 

[radio frequency]

Rutgers, hands down!

Not only is it the cheapest, but you want to work in industry. This is the school that is most known for industry partnerships. Seriously; go there and don't look back. Maryland would be my #2 choice. Both are great schools, but Rutgers will get you the industry exposure you want.

 

[shifraz]

Hey I'm trying to decide between Rutgers and Maryland- I'm from jersey so rutgers will be cheaper but i heard you can get residency for maryland. I know that maryland ranks higher though. As students at the two schools- can anyone tell me about pros and cons? do you like the program etc, are the teachers helpful?
thanks

 

[y0ssarian87]

Hey I'm trying to decide between Rutgers and Maryland- I'm from jersey so rutgers will be cheaper but i heard you can get residency for maryland. I know that maryland ranks higher though. As students at the two schools- can anyone tell me about pros and cons? do you like the program etc, are the teachers helpful?
thanks

Hi shifraz, I just PM'd you. Feel free to reach out!

 

[Jibby321]

Hey I'm trying to decide between Rutgers and Maryland- I'm from jersey so rutgers will be cheaper but i heard you can get residency for maryland. I know that maryland ranks higher though. As students at the two schools- can anyone tell me about pros and cons? do you like the program etc, are the teachers helpful?
thanks

Stay in state.

 

[shifraz]

aside for bat money- i want to hear if people like the schools

 

[RxStudentatUB]

Do Rutgers...they are in-state for you, probably some great alumni connected to industry and research, and they offer a competitive dual PharmD/MD program. You probably need stellar pre-requisite undergraduate grades and pharmacy school grades, but I would absolutely gun for that program if given the chance.

 

[PittPharm87]

i say rutgers

 

[RxStudentatUB]

i say rutgers

Keep yourself anonymous with these public forums, especially if things get rocky and you need a place to vent! Some of the guests and users are academia peons, I mean lovable associate professors and directors. You don't want to get caught saying the wrong thing, which might be the tiniest difference in attaining or not attaining your career goals. =)

 

[Jbrl]

To answer the question (even though this is a year old), as an NJ resident looking to get into industry, Rutgers is a pretty clear choice. Lots of connections, Fellowship Program