USMLE for the layperson? (Must see)

[tony montana]

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Not to get carried away with the whole experiments thing or anything, BUT, my cousin (not exactly a layperson, but I had to get your attention somehow) and I have undertaken the following one:

He is a chemistry major graduated with 3.7+ GPA, never took the MCAT
Never attended medical school nor is he interested in attending.
He will use a series of reference books (robbins,Costanzo, etc), review books, Qbanks for 3 months
At the end he will attempt an NMBE or two


So my question to you, out of the most curious curiosity, and just for entertainment purposes, don't try this at home type of thing, what do you predict he will score?

Thus the poll...

Tony

 

[doctorFred]

Not to get carried away with the whole experiments thing or anything, BUT, my cousin (not exactly a layperson, but I had to get your attention somehow) and I have undertaken the following one:

He is a chemistry major graduated with 3.7+ GPA, never took the MCAT
Never attended medical school nor is he interested in attending.
He will use a series of reference books (robbins,Costanzo, etc), review books, Qbanks for 3 months
At the end he will attempt an NMBE or two


So my question to you, out of the most curious curiosity, and just for entertainment purposes, don't try this at home type of thing, what do you predict he will score?

Thus the poll...

Tony

umm.. is your cousin unemployed?

 

[tony montana]

umm.. is your cousin unemployed?

He is doing research and can spare plenty of free time for the next 4 months.

 

[lilnoelle]

Why spend the money on this? It seems like a huge waste to me.

 

[registered user]

Does this kid burn himself with cigarettes or purposefully strangle himself to get "high"? Doesn't he have anything better to do?

You should put another option in there, something like "will quit after 4 days."

 

[lilnoelle]

You should put another option in there, something like "will quit after 4 days."

Haha.... yeah, thats the one I would've picked if it were available. I know I wouldn't do it if I didn't have to.
I DO have to and its hard to motivate myself. I can't imagine trying to take it when you didn't have to and aren't already familiar with the information.

 

[alpha06]

Hey Tony!

Just out of curiosity, what does HE think he will get on the NBME? Just trying to figure out his confidence level.

I'm sure since he is devoting soo much time to this, that he is trying to prove something, right? Or are you trying to prove something??

Just curious...

 

[tony montana]

Overfiend,

Precisely, he sees me struggling with UW and he sees what I got on my first NBME and so he dares me that if he took 3 months to prepare he could at least pass an NBME exam. He looked at my prep books, qbanks, notes etc and he feels confident with time he can acquire minimal profiency as to pass the exam.

I say he would not pass, and he responds you do not need two years of med school to pass step 1. And so I took him up on his word. I am giving him all the resources and a max of 4 months at the end of which he will take an NBME of my choice.

 

[HIJay]

i vote for nbme 3 or 4

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Review book-type resources are hard to study out of if you have had no previous exposure to the material. He might pass if he has a photographic memory, and enough time to look up details to fill in the gaps that review books/questions will leave him confused with, but I think he'll need more than 3 months to learn enough material to pass.

 

[smq123]

Does this kid burn himself with cigarettes or purposefully strangle himself to get "high"?

Those activities are sometimes more enjoyable than studying for Step 1. 🙁

Review book-type resources are hard to study out of if you have had no previous exposure to the material. He might pass if he has a photographic memory, and enough time to look up details to fill in the gaps that review books/questions will leave him confused with, but I think he'll need more than 3 months to learn enough material to pass.

Review books aren't even really enough to pass step 1. If you don't know how to think through the question, then you could have First Aid open in front of you, and it isn't really enough.

Review books don't teach you how to think through the "2-step" questions, which make up the bulk of Step 1.

 

[Law2Doc]

he responds you do not need two years of med school to pass step 1.

I think he misses the point -- you need the two years of knowledge to pass step 1. The review books only work if they are review. They probably add 10% of new knowledge and really just refresh 90% of old stuff you previously picked up in class. Unless he plans to spend 2+ years studying for the thing he is majorly outgunned. I also think you learn a lot about how to learn this kind of info while preparing for tests throughout med school, where the volume and pace is dramatically different than college.

 

[Powel6016]

It'd be funny if he aces the test.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Overfiend,

Precisely, he sees me struggling with UW and he sees what I got on my first NBME and so he dares me that if he took 3 months to prepare he could at least pass an NBME exam. He looked at my prep books, qbanks, notes etc and he feels confident with time he can acquire minimal profiency as to pass the exam.

I say he would not pass, and he responds you do not need two years of med school to pass step 1. And so I took him up on his word. I am giving him all the resources and a max of 4 months at the end of which he will take an NBME of my choice.

Well, it sounds like he's got some issues. I'm voting for failure.

 

[Law2Doc]

It'd be funny if he aces the test.

The joke would be on him; he'd now know that he has the ability to be a doctor but not the intensity to see it through. It would likely haunt him every time he feels any job dissatisfaction. It's usually best not to taste what could have been. Sort of like finding out you can throw a 90 MPH fastball after you hit 40, or getting hit on by a supermodel after you are happily married.

 

[superoxide]

It just hit me. Don't you have to be enrolled in a medical school to take the USMLEs? Doesn't your med school have to certify you to take it? or can just about anyone pay the fee and take it?

 

[smq123]

It just hit me. Don't you have to be enrolled in a medical school to take the USMLEs? Doesn't your med school have to certify you to take it? or can just about anyone pay the fee and take it?

Yes, you must be a medical student to take USMLE Step 1. Your school needs to certify your enrollment.

The OP's cousin, though, is going to take the NBME practice exam, which is online and costs $40. I don't remember whether or not I needed a USMLE registration number to purchase those tests, though. I don't think I did.

 

[superoxide]

Yes, you must be a medical student to take USMLE Step 1. Your school needs to certify your enrollment.

The OP's cousin, though, is going to take the NBME practice exam, which is online and costs $40. I don't remember whether or not I needed a USMLE registration number to purchase those tests, though. I don't think I did.

My bad. I didn't read that part. Either way it doesn't change my vote. I still think he will fail miserably.

 

[doctorFred]

or getting hit on by a supermodel after you are happily married.

well.. if it bothered you that much, you probably aren't "happily" married.

 

[Law2Doc]

well.. if it bothered you that much, you probably aren't "happily" married.

It wouldn't bother you, but every argument would set you thinking, I would think.

 

[ROBINHO]

Interesting experiment.

 

[ertugrul]

It would be more funny if he takes one of the forms before starting. Even he will not pass, we could see the improvement on scores.

BTW, do him a favour, keep him away form this mentally traumatic experience 🙂 Life will be different for him after 3 months of "enlightenment"

 

[alpha06]

Yes, you must be a medical student to take USMLE Step 1. Your school needs to certify your enrollment.

The OP's cousin, though, is going to take the NBME practice exam, which is online and costs $40. I don't remember whether or not I needed a USMLE registration number to purchase those tests, though. I don't think I did.

To take the NBME you need a usmle ID to register on their website and a valid email. Once thats done, anybody can use your email and password to take an NBME exam under your name.

 

[Terpskins99]

Yes, you must be a medical student to take USMLE Step 1. Your school needs to certify your enrollment.

The OP's cousin, though, is going to take the NBME practice exam, which is online and costs $40. I don't remember whether or not I needed a USMLE registration number to purchase those tests, though. I don't think I did.

I'm certain that any "lay" person taking an NBME cold turkey would get absolutely rocked. Shucks, I think any pre-med would get rocked too.

But 3 months worth? I think its possible to get to passing with a motivated enough student. But wow, studying pharm, physio, path and micro from scratch is going to be absolute torture. "Will give up after 4 days" is seriously the most likely outcome.

 

[HIJay]

while i also think he wont pass but i also tend to think that most med students perhaps are afraid or jealous that he will pass the nbme with just 3 mon of "studying" while we put in 2 yrs worth of torture. perhaps its our Id that keep saying he will fail miserably to protect our own ego?

in any case, i have met extremely smart ppl who never had to open a book in their lives or attend any class or study and yet ace every exams they took....so is it possible that this guy will pass nbme? sure....would i be jealous and perhaps shatter my traumatic 2 yrs of med school, probably; and perhaps thats the reason i vote no, he wont pass



and no, im not going into psych

 

[Terpskins99]

while i also think he wont pass but i also tend to think that most med students perhaps are afraid or jealous that he will pass the nbme with just 3 mon of "studying" while we put in 2 yrs worth of torture. perhaps its our Id that keep saying he will fail miserably to protect our own ego?

in any case, i have met extremely smart ppl who never had to open a book in their lives or attend any class or study and yet ace every exams they took....so is it possible that this guy will pass nbme? sure....would i be jealous and perhaps shatter my traumatic 2 yrs of med school, probably; and perhaps thats the reason i vote no, he wont pass



and no, im not going into psych

Well, I'm not afraid or jealous, just realistic. There is a ridiculous amount of information you need to get down. I'd be mad impressed if a non-med student pulled in a passing score on an NBME (especially form 3).

I also think in-class instruction is overrated. Most of what I learned in medical school I taught myself. Like I said before, if someone is incredibly efficient and can manage to retain a tremendous volume of information in a very limited amount of time, I don't see why it couldn't be done. I heard of a law student that took the MCAT's on a dare and ended up pulling a 41 following about 6 weeks of preparation. The problem is, the MCAT's are more of an intuitive exam where you can reason your way through a lot of questions whereas most of the NBME/USMLE is straight-up recall.

 

[HIJay]

Well, I'm not afraid or jealous, just realistic. There is a ridiculous amount of information you need to get down. I'd be mad impressed if a non-med student pulled in a passing score on an NBME (especially form 3).

I also think in-class instruction is overrated. Most of what I learned in medical school I taught myself. Like I said before, if someone is incredibly efficient and can manage to retain a tremendous volume of information in a very limited amount of time, I don't see why it couldn't be done. I heard of a law student that took the MCAT's on a dare and ended up pulling a 41 following about 6 weeks of preparation. The problem is, the MCAT's are more of an intuitive exam where you can reason your way through a lot of questions whereas most of the NBME/USMLE is straight-up recall.

agreed.
but there are some extreme prodigy out there who i have met , and im very impressed by them

if somehow this guy can read thro the books 1 time around and just "get it" (and i have seen ppl like that in med school and also in undergrad with electrical and chemical engineering) theyy may just have a shot in passing nbme

 

[tony montana]

Ertugrul,

I thought your idea of taking an exam before any studying was great. Here is his result:

240/800

would just hate to be a med student with that starting score...

 

[HIJay]

Ertugrul,

I thought your idea of taking an exam before any studying was great. Here is his result:

240/800

would just hate to be a med student with that starting score...

which form was that. just curious

 

[TheMightyAngus]

Ertugrul,

I thought your idea of taking an exam before any studying was great. Here is his result:

240/800

would just hate to be a med student with that starting score...

800 is the max score (>265).

 

[ertugrul]

Ertugrul,

I thought your idea of taking an exam before any studying was great. Here is his result:

240/800

would just hate to be a med student with that starting score...

 

[lankysudanese]

800 is the max score (>265).

he got 240 in the scale of the NBME exams (0-800), NOT 240/99 (which is equivalent to around 580-600 out of 800)

 

[Faebinder]

Is anyone really surprised? did everyone think that the USMLE is a true test of knowledge? Maybe if it wasnt timed then it would be testing what a person really knows vs. how fast he can spit it out.

 

[Doctor J]

Ertugrul,

I thought your idea of taking an exam before any studying was great. Here is his result:

240/800

would just hate to be a med student with that starting score...

Well, he scored marginally better than a monkey randomly pressing answer keys. That's a start.

By the way, this sounds like a bet where a ridiculously large amount of money would have to be involved for your cousin to actually commit to 3 months of step 1 study. Either that or he's the kind of guy who ate dirt on a dare as a kid.

 

[Law2Doc]

he got 240 in the scale of the NBME exams (0-800), NOT 240/99 (which is equivalent to around 580-600 out of 800)

Agreed. According to the Medfriends USMLE score estimator sites, you need a 375 on the NBME to just equate to a passing score (185) on the real thing. Sounds like OPs friend is starting well in the hole.

 

[lankysudanese]

Is anyone really surprised? did everyone think that the USMLE is a true test of knowledge? Maybe if it wasnt timed then it would be testing what a person really knows vs. how fast he can spit it out.

I can't quite follow what ur trying to say - r u claiming that the time constraints in Step 1 are a bigger challenge than the complexity of the questions? b/c i was under the impression that most people finish their sections well ahead of time (hell, some finish the whole test with hours to spare).

...and what does this have to do with the issue at hand? i'm sure that this "layperson" would have gotten a similar score if he took the NBME in tutor mode (especially at this stage, since he hasn't started studying yet)

 

[tony montana]

Well, he scored marginally better than a monkey randomly pressing answer keys. That's a start.

By the way, this sounds like a bet where a ridiculously large amount of money would have to be involved for your cousin to actually commit to 3 months of step 1 study. Either that or he's the kind of guy who ate dirt on a dare as a kid.

He is a challenge addict which I guess can be a consequence of eating pencils when he was a kid, lol

Anyway, he did form 1 NBME

 

[DrWBD]

I think calling an intelligent chemistry major, taking an exam which is mostly preclinical basic science, a "layperson" is kind of a stretch.

I predict he'll at least get a passing score if he doesn't find something more interesting to do in the three months.