Utah Moran and Casey Oregon Residency Programs

[WhoWhatWhere]

Hey guys,

I'm from the west coast and was wondering if anyone could provide a comparison of these two programs. Which has better surgical training? Better chance of matching for fellowship? etc? Thanks!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[JMK2005]

Both are well respected programs, though I don't have first hand experience.
Depending on which fellowships, you may want to pick the program that has more faculty in that area.

 

[WhoWhatWhere]

I'm looking to go into Retina. One particularly stronger in this area than the other?

 

[doctortom]

Both are excellent programs that are notoriously difficult to match at (Both are complete package programs: training, reputation, location etc.). I would give the edge to Casey based on reputation alone. Another thing to keep in mind is that Moran does not have any ACGME accredited fellowship programs; all fellowships are by voluntary faculty I believe.

 

[DrMassacre]

Both great programs but I would definitely rank Moran over Casey.

 

[MstaKing10]

If you are interested in retina, Casey has one of the most well respected and sought after fellowships in the country. Ultimately, both programs are fantastic, you would get excellent training either way.

 

[EyesKnowIt]

Both have excellent academic reputations and are extremely competitive Ophthalmology residencies to match at. Saying that, for residency I would rank Moran higher than Casey because they are known to have some of the highest surgical numbers in the country. But you'll be competitive for retina fellowships coming from either program.

 

[EyesOnThePryze]

I have spoken to the Casey Residency PD, a retina doc himself, who has wondered why more Casey residents don't tend to go into Retina. Perhaps it has to do with the type of applicants they tend to take, perhaps not.

On the Utah side of things, just getting an interview is extremely difficult. I believe they interviewed fewer than 30 this year. OHSU interviewed about 50. So unless you get an interview to both next year, this question is of little relevance at the present time.

Both great programs but I would definitely rank Moran over Casey.

Why do you say definitely?

 

[WhoWhatWhere]

I have spoken to the Casey Residency PD, a retina doc himself, who has wondered why more Casey residents don't tend to go into Retina. Perhaps it has to do with the type of applicants they tend to take, perhaps not.

On the Utah side of things, just getting an interview is extremely difficult. I believe they interviewed fewer than 30 this year. OHSU interviewed about 50. So unless you get an interview to both next year, this question is of little relevance at the present time.



Why do you say definitely?

Good point about getting the interviews first. 30-50 interviews? That's crazy competitive...

 

[EyesOnThePryze]

Good point about getting the interviews first. 30-50 interviews? That's crazy competitive...

If you're a great applicant, then you have as good a shot as anybody.

50 is about par for the course, especially at sought-after programs. Typically you see a ratio of 10 interviewees for 1 spot. Casey has 5 spots, Utah has 3.

 

[WhoWhatWhere]

Both are excellent programs that are notoriously difficult to match at (Both are complete package programs: training, reputation, location etc.). I would give the edge to Casey based on reputation alone. Another thing to keep in mind is that Moran does not have any ACGME accredited fellowship programs; all fellowships are by voluntary faculty I believe.

What the significance of a residency program not having ACGME accredited fellowship programs? Would this be a disadvantage for a resident coming from that program trying to get a fellowship?

 

[doctortom]

What the significance of a residency program not having ACGME accredited fellowship programs? Would this be a disadvantage for a resident coming from that program trying to get a fellowship?

Sorry for the confusion. The large majority of ophtho fellowships are not ACGME accredited as they do not formally recognize most ophtho subspecialties. I remembered reading on Moran's website that they were not ACGME certified and got that confused with whether they were AUPO FCC compliant.

 

[4424]

Just to clear up, both Casey and Utah have retina fellowships. Retina fellowships are not ACGME certified but the good ones are AUPO certified. Casey has definitely the superior fellowship. I can't speak for either when it comes to the residency but I would say Casey holds an edge with reputation. Can't go wrong, both great choices.

 

[WhoWhatWhere]

Retina fellowships at both Casey/Oregon and Moran/Utah are in compliance with AUPO.

http://www.aupofcc.org/programs_in_compliance.html?specialty=retina

Thanks everyone! Looks like both are top-notch programs. I just hope to get an interview at either!

 

[eyesteve]

As was mentioned by Dr. Tom, (most) ophthalmology fellowships, including the Moran (see website) are not ACGME accredited. In fact, if you go to the SF match fellowship training requirements website you will see that, "Since the American Board of Ophthalmology and the ACGME have not officially defined any sub-specialty areas in Ophthalmology, no fellowships can be ACGME accredited..."

As has been pointed out, however, both the Moran and Casey retina fellowships are in compliance with the AUPO, which is a governing body formed in 2005 to promote "uniform standards for fellowship training." Hopefully you can see that the ACGME accreditation is a non-issue with ophthalmology fellowships at the present time, as none are ACGME accredited; instead of ACGME, look for the AUPO compliance or whatever other approval system the sub-specialty has chosen to use as its standard. For example, pediatric ophtho uses the American Association for Pediatric Ophthalmology.

Dr. Tom mentioned that at the Moran, "All fellowships are by voluntary faculty I believe." To my knowledge this is not accurate. As far as I know, the fellowships (cornea, glaucoma, retina, neuro) are all directed by outstanding faculty that are not simply voluntary faculty (they are in fact employed by the University of Utah and not solely in private practice) and the fellowships are extremely competitive. Yes, there are likely attendings that see some private practice patients, but that is the exception, not the rule, and is fairly typical at other institutions as well, I believe.

In terms of the residency, as correctly stated, the Moran typically only interviews about 30 applicants for its 3 positions (10:1 ratio like other programs), and those 30 spots are indeed competitive. If you are interested in the program, I recommend doing an away rotation so the faculty can get to know you and you can see if you would be a good fit.

It is my understanding that the Casey Eye Institute is also a wonderful program and I imagine you would be well trained either way. Best of luck!

 

[MstaKing10]

NO fellowship is ACGME certified. This is a governing body that is in charge of accrediting ophthalmology residencies only. AUPO is the governing body that does the same for fellowships. The rules for fellowships are much more lax and accreditation by the AUPO is completely voluntary. Some (though very few) great programs are not AUPO certified out of choice. The same cannot be said of residency programs and ACGME accreditation of course.

There is talk of having the ACGME take over fellowship accreditation but this would be a huge mistake for many reasons.

In any case, the Casey retina fellowship is one of the tops in the country. The Utah fellowship is not quite as competitive though still solid. As far as residency programs, I think they are both very solid.

 

[chapung]

Does anybody know how these two programs compare to the University of Washington? Especially interested in the reputation of OHSU vs UW.. Would love to do residency in the pacific northwest

 

[EyesOnThePryze]

Washington is an up and coming program with an enthusiastic and dynamic chairman. The department is currently at the tail end of a big expansion and has hired a ton of faculty over the last few years, many who are young and also enthusiastic. That being said, I believe they are still some time away from being an established, top level residency program in the same vein as OHSU.

Their residents, IMO, seemed somewhat overworked given all the trauma that comes through Harborview, the enormous county hospital that spawned life flight and is one of the best trauma centers in the country.

I think their residents do okay for fellowships, don't remember being blown away.

 

[eyespin]

I go to a medical school with a top 5 ophthalmology program. Numerous ophthalmology attendings at my institution have said that Utah is a very well respected program and in the near future will quite possibly be a top 5 program. They are known to have many clinical heavy hitters and have tons of funding for vision research. But as many have said, just to get an interview is really difficult...

 

[EyesKnowIt]

I also believe some years back Utah's Ophtho residency program was ranked 8th best in the nation by Ophthalmology Times.

 

[BumpityBump]

Anymore information on Utah's program from anyone who has interviewed or rotated there?