VA Career

[bcliff]

How much can a psychologist who has worked with the VA for several years expect to earn? How difficult is it to work up the ranks of the VA into more managerial/supervisory/administrative positions? Are there other institutions that have equal research/clinical opportunities and commensurate compensation?

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[sardonic]

I'm also curious about this. I know where to find the pay scales G1-G14 or whatever it is, but I don't know where (at what level) a psychologist would enter, and how high one can expect to climb in terms of G level and increments within that level.

 

[WisNeuro]

Salary depends on location, locality adjustments vary pretty significantly. Salaries are publicly available and are listed on OPM's website for each jurisdiction. I'm about 89 starting and will get at least a 3k raise every year for the 1st three years, and whatever cost of living adjustment congress decides on. Most psychologists are GS-13. When you come right out of a 1 year postdoc, you are gs 12 for one year and get to 13 when you get another year in, after that it's all about steps. GS-14 is for supervisors of departments, GS-15 is for high level admin, i.e., chief of psychology, etc.

As for climbing the ranks, really depends on the VA. Better chance if there is a training program. But also depends on who is there in those positions and when they plan on either retiring or leaving for something else.

 

[erg923]

How much can a psychologist who has worked with the VA for several years expect to earn? How difficult is it to work up the ranks of the VA into more managerial/supervisory/administrative positions? Are there other institutions that have equal research/clinical opportunities and commensurate compensation?

My Ph.D was conferred in 2012. My base salary is 87k (13-1) at the moment.

I do not think all Admin positions are GS-14 for psychologists, but most are. The pay scale with location adjustment is publically available on the internet. GS-15, I think, is saved for VISN level admin/supervision.

Kaiser seems commesurate with VA in regards to pay.

 

[sardonic]

Thanks!

I knew about this: http://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries-wages/2014/general-schedule/

But it's helpful to know GS-13 is where people typically begin.

 

[erg923]

Thanks!

I knew about this: http://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries-wages/2014/general-schedule/

But it's helpful to know GS-13 is where people typically begin.

Well, no, not quite. Thats 2 years of post-doctoral experience.

No experience beyond internship enters GS-11 step one. One year post-doc experiernce enters G2-12 step one.

 

[sardonic]

Got it, thank you! It still seems reasonably quick to get to GS13, which is good to know.

 

[bcliff]

I appreciate all the info!

Is it common to do internship and post doc at a VA, and then stick around after licensure? What is the peak salary range for a VA psychologist?

 

[sardonic]

I appreciate all the info!

Is it common to do internship and post doc at a VA, and then stick around after licensure? What is the peak salary range for a VA psychologist?

Take a look at this: http://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries-wages/2014/general-schedule/

 

[WisNeuro]

Briar, check out the 2015 pay schedules for a few of the places you think you may want to be. The 2014 schedules posted do not include the last COLA raise.

http://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries-wages/2015/general-schedule/

Look at the Gs-13 and see what the upper step levels are like. 6 figures is attainable in many places about 4-6 years in. Also, some VA's give an auto step for boarding.

Also, whether or not you are looking into the VA or other places. Don't just consider salary. Look at 401k (and how much of a company match there is), pension if there is one, leave time, insurance, etc. These things definitely make a difference.

 

[deleted106747]

Also student loan repayment. I just accepted a position at a VA with the base GS salary, but it has retirement, pension, and student loan repayment which substantially improves the overall amount I will be compensated.

 

[erg923]

I also have the 5 year loan repayment....which is basically a reibursement of what you paid at the end of each year.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Also student loan repayment. I just accepted a position at a VA with the base GS salary, but it has retirement, pension, and student loan repayment which substantially improves the overall amount I will be compensated.

Yep, VA benefits are great. Although with things like relocation reimbursement, student loan repayment, and signing bonuses, keep in mind that at least the potential for these things must be listed in the actual job posting in order for them to even be an option. If they aren't explicitly listed as available, then even if HR or the folks hiring you wanted to give it to you, they couldn't.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

100% to the above post.

Also…if a position is posted as a GS-12, that is probably it. If it lists GS-12 to GS-13…then you can apply for consideration for the GS-13. Some people think it is like negotiating for a regular job where they can raise the salary….that is very very hard to do in the VA setting once a job is approved.

 

[Fan_of_Meehl]

How much can a psychologist who has worked with the VA for several years expect to earn? How difficult is it to work up the ranks of the VA into more managerial/supervisory/administrative positions? Are there other institutions that have equal research/clinical opportunities and commensurate compensation?

The money is good as is the stability/benefits. The bureaucracy is stifling and you have to fight your way through a lot of BS nonsense every day just to get to the good stuff (applying principles to help real people in their lives). I have lamented to my colleagues that some days I feel like a pigeon continuously pecking red lights to make them turn green (if you work in the VA, you probably know what I mean) due to mindless repetitive tasks we have to do over and over again to keep the masters off our backs.

That being said, I have absolutely positively no desire to 'work up the ranks of the VA into more managerial/supervisory/administrative positions.' The federal union is strong and aggressively protects workers against, in many cases, appropriate supervision/discipline. Add to that the fact that you are going to spend most of your time forcing inane policies/practices down the throats of your clinician supervisees and sapping/diverting their energies from their true (demanding) task of helping emotionally troubled veterans...not something I would want to do on a daily basis.

All in all I love being a 'front line' clinician because I can feel really good at the end of the day having done some meaningful work with veterans and nudged them a little closer to a better quality of life and reduced suffering. I think that I would have a hard time enduring the nonsense at the VA if there wasn't that little 'food pellet' of primary reinforcement built into my day. The administrative/managerial positions appear (to me at least) to spend their entire time peddling nonsense, sophistry, public relations, and 'Game of Thrones' type petty power struggles over whose little bureaucratic fiefdom can command the most influence or the biggest budget or the most workers. Not for me, thanks. You can easily make up the salary gap between a GS-13 and a GS-14/15 with a few extra hours of private practice on the side.

 

[bcliff]

Thanks everyone for sharing!

Have there been any updates on RxP in the VA? I had heard whispers that the VA was interested in allowing psychologists, with the requisite training, to prescribe.

What about in NM and LA (and IL?) - Do 'medical' psychologists (is that the PC term?) have the ability to prescribe in those states' VAs?

*edit: I've been up late googling RxP and the VA, and I stumbled upon this gem - Thought I'd share:

http://scholarship.shu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1464&context=student_scholarship

 

[Fan_of_Meehl]

Thanks everyone for sharing!

Have there been any updates on RxP in the VA? I had heard whispers that the VA was interested in allowing psychologists, with the requisite training, to prescribe.

What about in NM and LA (and IL?) - Do 'medical' psychologists (is that the PC term?) have the ability to prescribe in those states' VAs?

*edit: I've been up late googling RxP and the VA, and I stumbled upon this gem - Thought I'd share:

http://scholarship.shu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1464&context=student_scholarship

Not here in Louisiana. Heard some rumblings second-hand about it but nothing seems imminent.

 

[deleted106747]

I also have the 5 year loan repayment....which is basically a reibursement of what you paid at the end of each year.

Can you tell me how this works for you? I have heard different things, that the VA decides how much you pay each month and therefore how much they will reimburse, or that you pay your amount and they reimburse, that they decide the total amount of your loan reimbursement, etc. Thank you for any insight!

 

[erg923]

Can you tell me how this works for you? I have heard different things, that the VA decides how much you pay each month and therefore how much they will reimburse, or that you pay your amount and they reimburse, that they decide the total amount of your loan reimbursement, etc. Thank you for any insight!

You pay, they reimburse what you paid, up to 12,000 per year for 5 years. So long as your minimum payment amount isn't over a grand each month, it works.

 

[erg923]

I have lamented to my colleagues that some days I feel like a pigeon continuously pecking red lights to make them turn green (if you work in the VA, you probably know what I mean) due to mindless repetitive tasks we have to do over and over again to keep the masters off our backs.

That being said, I have absolutely positively no desire to 'work up the ranks of the VA into more managerial/supervisory/administrative positions.' The federal union is strong and aggressively protects workers against, in many cases, appropriate supervision/discipline. Add to that the fact that you are going to spend most of your time forcing inane policies/practices down the throats of your clinician supervisees and sapping/diverting their energies from their true (demanding) task of helping emotionally troubled veterans...not something I would want to do on a daily basis.

All in all I love being a 'front line' clinician because I can feel really good at the end of the day having done some meaningful work with veterans and nudged them a little closer to a better quality of life and reduced suffering. I think that I would have a hard time enduring the nonsense at the VA if there wasn't that little 'food pellet' of primary reinforcement built into my day. The administrative/managerial positions appear (to me at least) to spend their entire time peddling nonsense, sophistry, public relations, and 'Game of Thrones' type petty power struggles over whose little bureaucratic fiefdom can command the most influence or the biggest budget or the most workers. Not for me, thanks. You can easily make up the salary gap between a GS-13 and a GS-14/15 with a few extra hours of private practice on the side.

It makes me never want to document a pain level above 4.

 

[irish80122]

Thanks everyone for sharing!

Have there been any updates on RxP in the VA? I had heard whispers that the VA was interested in allowing psychologists, with the requisite training, to prescribe.

What about in NM and LA (and IL?) - Do 'medical' psychologists (is that the PC term?) have the ability to prescribe in those states' VAs?

*edit: I've been up late googling RxP and the VA, and I stumbled upon this gem - Thought I'd share:

http://scholarship.shu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1464&context=student_scholarship

Is this the same person that wrote the article above on prescription privileges? If so I find it ironic. http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2009/03/oral_surgeon_guilty_of_medical.html

 

[erg923]

The administrative/managerial positions appear (to me at least) to spend their entire time peddling nonsense, sophistry, public relations, and 'Game of Thrones' type petty power struggles over whose little bureaucratic fiefdom can command the most influence or the biggest budget or the most workers. Not for me, thanks. You can easily make up the salary gap between a GS-13 and a GS-14/15 with a few extra hours of private practice on the side.

I largely agree. I have really soured on pursuing supervisory positions, at least in my VA. My boss is great, but I largely see her job as "enforcement" of policies and procedures that are designed to look good, but in reality of little functional utility or benefit for clinicians or patients. Example: The way we do treatment plans and the idea of a MHTC.

 

[deleted106747]

You pay, they reimburse what you paid, up to 12,000 per year for 5 years. So long as your minimum payment amount isn't over a grand each month, it works.

Thanks. I was told that they have upped it to $120,000; I wonder if that means a bigger amount paid each year or a longer pay period. I wouldn't want to pay more than $12,000 a year even if reimbursed, at least not the first year.

I largely agree. I have really soured on pursuing supervisory positions, at least in my VA. My boss is great, but I largely see her job as "enforcement" of policies and procedures that are designed to look good, but in reality of little functional utility or benefit for clinicians or patients. Example: The way we do treatment plans and the idea of a MHTC.

It seems to me it's a lot of putting out fires. I don't know that I'd want that for a career.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

The "Administration" world seems less and less desirable (not just in the VA). It's amazing how many meetings and paperwork comes with those jobs, so it is no wonder many push to have some clinic and/or research time.

 

[Fan_of_Meehl]

The "Administration" world seems less and less desirable (not just in the VA). It's amazing how many meetings and paperwork comes with those jobs, so it is no wonder many push to have some clinic and/or research time.

Right...more and more those positions seem to select for clinically inept sadomasochistic control-freak types. Not my idea of good 'peers' or colleagues to have to interact with on a daily basis.

 

[WisNeuro]

Admin differs pretty greatly site by site. Not so great at my last site, actually terrible, but my section supervisor and psych chief where I am now are very supportive. My section supervisor is also a fairly big name in our field, so that helps with networking and the like.

As they say, "if you've seen one VA, you've seen one VA."

 

[kestrelcry]

I also have the 5 year loan repayment....which is basically a reibursement of what you paid at the end of each year.

Where can one find out more about this? Is it just a MIRECC thing? I've heard about the ERsomething-something-letter-can't-remember, but this sounds different?

 

[erg923]

EDRP. It's not connected to MIRREC.

 

[kestrelcry]

EDRP. It's not connected to MIRREC.

There's the letters! I gave up on looking into it because I was told it was only for research positions. Bugger. Should I have been asking about it on postdoc interviews?

 

[Old at heart]

Totally tangential, but wondering if any VA person could say whether you have remote access to your email? I'm in the reciprocal offer situation for postdoc and wondering if it's even worth sending an email to my top site (a VA) or waiting to call on Tuesday morning. Thanks

 

[erg923]

There's the letters! I gave up on looking into it because I was told it was only for research positions. Bugger. Should I have been asking about it on postdoc interviews?

It's in the job posting. If its not in the specific job posting on USAJOBS that you apply for/get, then you don't get it. It not something you can just request.

 

[erg923]

Totally tangential, but wondering if any VA person could say whether you have remote access to your email? I'm in the reciprocal offer situation for postdoc and wondering if it's even worth sending an email to my top site (a VA) or waiting to call on Tuesday morning. Thanks

You can request remote access to the VAs network (including email), but you have to have good reason. HBPC psychologists usually do, as well as supervisors and administrators. Most psychologist don't. And I have little desire to have work intrude into my home life, frankly.

 

[deleted106747]

Totally tangential, but wondering if any VA person could say whether you have remote access to your email? I'm in the reciprocal offer situation for postdoc and wondering if it's even worth sending an email to my top site (a VA) or waiting to call on Tuesday morning. Thanks

I have home access to email and the medical record. I wanted it because I have young children and if there is a work task that absolutely needs to be done that same day, it allows me to still leave on time to pick them up/cook dinner/etc. and finish the task later. I try to limit checking it if there's nothing that needs to be done. I believe this is dependent on whether your supervisor allows it or not.

It's in the job posting. If its not in the specific job posting on USAJOBS that you apply for/get, then you don't get it. It not something you can just request.

Yes, it has to be in the job posting. I learned that this go around: if it's not in the posting, it's not offered for the job. But if it is, you should be able to get it.

 

[postdocdilemma]

original post deleted
Thank you for the feedback!

 

[WisNeuro]

I imagine there may be a VA site or two out there who will hire you for couples work, but it will be a search. From what I've seen at several sites, they are hiring MFT's to do the couples work. Better bet would be a general mental health job where they would let you carry a couple or two in addition to your other patients. But, as for psychologists in the VA who only or primarily do couples work, I have yet to meet one.

Take that with a grain of salt, n=3 for VA's I've worked/trained at. But those were large metro VA's with a wide variety of services.