VA internship competitiveness?

[mackereltabby]

Dear all, I will be applying to several VAs this internship cycle and I’d like some feedback on whether I am a competitive applicant. I want to work at a VA because of the rotation opportunities in Geropsychology and palliative care. However, I’ve never worked at a VA before as a practicum site and I’m worried this may hurt my chances. For context, I’m in a counseling psychology PhD program, and I’ve just started my third practicum experience in neuropsychology at a teaching hospital where I’ll get experience working with older adults and also running rehabilitation groups. I’ve worked in an outpatient setting providing brief EBTs to mostly middle aged and older adults through a large teaching hospital. I’ve also worked in an inpatient mental health facility for children and adolescents providing CBT and DBT based group and individual therapy. I should have 500 hours of intervention and hopefully around 50 hours of assessment before I apply. I’m also worried the lower assessment hours may hurt my chances since I just started my neuropsych practicum. Any thoughts, advice, or suggestions? Thank you!

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[summerbabe]

VA psychologist and internship faculty here so here's my n=1 impressions.

If you are applying to VAs with tracks in gero and palliative, those are 2 of the less popular subfields so your odds are probably better than if applying to a neuro or trauma track or even a non-track VA.

50 assessment hours is low, especially if your VA's gero program is more neuro-heavy than CLC focused (our name for the dementia unit that also does some rehab and other stuff) & 500 intervention is also on the lower end. You don't need an overwhelming amount of adult/older adult hours but child hours won't help your application.

How will the rest of your application look? Do you have anything that stands out, such as if you've published/presented more than average? How far along in your dissertation?

And how many individual supervision hours will you have? Low direct hours plus low individual supervision hours is not an ideal comfo. Good luck!

 

[mackereltabby]

Thank you so much for taking the time to respond!! I really enjoy working with older adults and it has been my concern that my transcript doesn’t represent that. My program puts a lot of emphasis on getting a range of experiences, so after I worked with mostly older adults outpatient I was encouraged to work with children and adolescents in inpatient. I have 6 total pubs, 1 first author, 3 second author, and 3 third author. The 1st author pub is a conceptual theory based piece on suicide in minority groups, not data based, so that may not count for as much. My dissertation should be in pretty good shape by the start of internship with some data coding left to do - I’m doing a mixed methods dissertation on how trainees death anxiety influences their emotional responses towards LGBTQ and BIPOC clients at risk for suicide. I have particular research interests in suicide risk and protective factors among older adults that I’d like to pursue in the future.
In terms of hours, I should have more like 575 direct by the time I apply. Also, I have provided feedback in brief therapy on clients’ digitally-reported GAD-7 and PHQ-9 scores as part of a digital/in person hybrid therapy intervention, but I’m not sure if that feedback can be counted as assessment. I have about 100 individual supervision hours. Thanks again for responding!

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Your publication record sounds pretty solid, so I wouldn't worry too much about that. RE: providing feedback, that typically (per my understanding) does count as assessment time, but I'd double-check to be sure. I'd also double-check that administering and providing feedback on just a couple very brief self-report measures, rather than a more in-depth assessment battery, "counts" as assessment.

RE: the interest in older adults, I'd say just explain it in your essays and interviews exactly the way you did here--that it's an area of interest you want to further explore and focus on for internship and your career, and that you know this in part because you've gotten experience with a range of age groups per your grad program's requirements.

Overall, I'd say the application sounds reasonably competitive and you should go ahead and apply broadly. There are certainly some flagship VAs, but outside of those, much of the competitiveness (as with many internship sites) is tied to location.

Edit: I forgot to mention that not having prior VA experience won't help, but it's not insurmountable, especially if the placement just hasn't been available to you. Anecdotally, I never had VA experience in grad school (like you, it wasn't available in my grad program), but I ended up at VAs for both internship and fellowship.

 

[summerbabe]

Your pubs should put you near the top of an intern class for a typical VA IMO.

At my VA, we have a pretty lengthy rubric so everybody gets a score within each major category and the score is aggregated to help determine who gets an interview so having a few things where you’ll max out the score is helpful, to balance things where you’ll be scored lower (like no previous VA experience).

Also, I have provided feedback in brief therapy on clients’ digitally-reported GAD-7 and PHQ-9 scores as part of a digital/in person hybrid therapy intervention, but I’m not sure if that feedback can be counted as assessment.

I certainly don’t know the APPIC rules by heart but I would consider this as part of your therapy/intervention hours (since it sounds like this is part of measurement based care, as opposed to answering a specific diagnostic question, even if it’s brief like using an RBANS as a cognitive screener followed by feedback to the patient).

You’ll be asked on the APPI to log which measures were used as part of your assessment hours and how many integrated reports you wrote so discrepancies will likely be noted by staff (eg this person seems to have a lot of hours for the # of times they administered their noted measures).

 

[Sanman]

Makes sure that you have above 500 intervention hours to make the cutoff for some internships. 50 hours of assessment is on the lower side, I would focus on getting as many quality brief assessments are you can in on your neuropsychology rotations. Get familiar with testing instruments like the RBANS and DRS-2 you have not already. You are not going to have huge quantity, so focus on quality. Outside of VA Boston and a few other major geropsych centers, geropsych is a less competitive specialty. Find a place with CLC and HBPC rotations if possible. Staffing for both of these areas was hit hard during the pandemic. Make sure that the rotations where you are applying are currently available.

The good news is that if you are geographically flexible, you should be able to match and there are plenty of jobs that will be available to you as there is a national shortage of well-trained geropsychologists. I also suggest joining APA 12/2 (geropsychology) and PLTC (psychologists in long-term care) if you have not. PLTC in particular is always looking for student reps and it could help to boost your applications.

 

[coffee&CBT]

I agree with everyone that you sound competitive! I was wondering about the individual supervision hours...I just looked back to see what I applied with and I had 165 individual supervision hours when I applied to internship (and I only did a 4 year PhD program). I am not sure how much that matters, but thought I would mention it.

 

[Dazen]

Makes sure that you have above 500 intervention hours to make the cutoff for some internships. 50 hours of assessment is on the lower side, I would focus on getting as many quality brief assessments are you can in on your neuropsychology rotations. Get familiar with testing instruments like the RBANS and DRS-2 you have not already. You are not going to have huge quantity, so focus on quality. Outside of VA Boston and a few other major geropsych centers, geropsych is a less competitive specialty. Find a place with CLC and HBPC rotations if possible. Staffing for both of these areas was hit hard during the pandemic. Make sure that the rotations where you are applying are currently available.

The good news is that if you are geographically flexible, you should be able to match and there are plenty of jobs that will be available to you as there is a national shortage of well-trained geropsychologists. I also suggest joining APA 12/2 (geropsychology) and PLTC (psychologists in long-term care) if you have not. PLTC in particular is always looking for student reps and it could help to boost your applications.

I’m applying in a year and change, so I’ve done some research on sites and started a list but certainly haven’t searched broadly. How common is a 500 therapy hour requirement? I’ve seen 500-600 combined therapy and assessment pretty frequently, but haven’t come across that specific number yet. For context, I’m at ~370 therapy/~125 assessment now, so it wouldn’t be impossible to hit, but I’ll likely have lower hours next year because my pracs are more specialized and less high volume.

 

[Sanman]

I’m applying in a year and change, so I’ve done some research on sites and started a list but certainly haven’t searched broadly. How common is a 500 therapy hour requirement? I’ve seen 500-600 combined therapy and assessment pretty frequently, but haven’t come across that specific number yet. For context, I’m at ~370 therapy/~125 assessment now, so it wouldn’t be impossible to hit, but I’ll likely have lower hours next year because my pracs are more specialized and less high volume.

It varies internship to internship. If you have an idea of places you want to apply, take a look at their requirements now. Some have cutoffs in the 400 and 500 intervention hour range. Some also have a minimum number of integrated reports as well. If you aren't applying to any of those places, don't sweat it too much. But application time is not when you want to find out that your choice programs have a cutoff.

 

[deuce22]

Dear all, I will be applying to several VAs this internship cycle and I’d like some feedback on whether I am a competitive applicant. I want to work at a VA because of the rotation opportunities in Geropsychology and palliative care. However, I’ve never worked at a VA before as a practicum site and I’m worried this may hurt my chances. For context, I’m in a counseling psychology PhD program, and I’ve just started my third practicum experience in neuropsychology at a teaching hospital where I’ll get experience working with older adults and also running rehabilitation groups. I’ve worked in an outpatient setting providing brief EBTs to mostly middle aged and older adults through a large teaching hospital. I’ve also worked in an inpatient mental health facility for children and adolescents providing CBT and DBT based group and individual therapy. I should have 500 hours of intervention and hopefully around 50 hours of assessment before I apply. I’m also worried the lower assessment hours may hurt my chances since I just started my neuropsych practicum. Any thoughts, advice, or suggestions? Thank you!

Would agree with all others have shared. I would also encourage to make sure you meet each site's minimum hours requirements to ensure that is not a barrier to being considered for an interview. I don't review applications but often part-take in interviews for our VA internship and residency programs. I can say that having/not having VA experience is considered when attempting to assess fitness with the program, but isn't an absolute no-go, particularly for someone interested in/with experience working with older adults (since that's the majority of VA patients). It can be helpful to have some experience doing things "the VA way" so it is less of a learning curve once the year starts, so if you have a chance to talk to others who have worked in VA settings that'll give you something to talk about in terms of knowing what you are getting into.

Many internships will have specific gero tracks (often with only 1-2 slots) or are general so have X number of slots and then try and recruit trainees with a variety of interests to ensure they can all get the rotations they would want. You might mix it up in applying to places with both gero and general tracks (that have rotations you'd want to experience) to have the best shot matching somewhere that could support your training goals. Good luck!

 

[cara susanna]

I got a VA internship with no VA experience because I had solid research credentials (4-5 pubs) and they were looking for people with stronger research backgrounds. I also got interviews at a few other VAs despite no VA experience, even though I didn't match to them. I had a good amount of assessment hours though (150 maybe?) and integrated reports written.

 

[WisNeuro]

I got a VA internship with no VA experience because I had solid research credentials (4-5 pubs) and they were looking for people with stronger research backgrounds. I also got interviews at a few other VAs despite no VA experience, even though I didn't match to them. I had a good amount of assessment hours though (150 maybe?) and integrated reports written.

Likewise, no VA experience prior to internship in the VA. But, pubs and well over the minimum assessment and intervention numbers, scads of reports. And, well-known letter writers.

 

[RxPsych]

I got a VA internship with no VA experience because I had solid research credentials (4-5 pubs) and they were looking for people with stronger research backgrounds. I also got interviews at a few other VAs despite no VA experience, even though I didn't match to them. I had a good amount of assessment hours though (150 maybe?) and integrated reports written.

This makes me feel a bit better. I'm applying to probably 9 VAs and 6 AMC or hospital systems with no VA experience. As a student it's understandable to be worried about matching but given my programs near 100% match rate (par 2 outlier students) for the past 7 years, I shouldn't be very worried. I should have near 800 combined intervention/assessment hours (excluding master's hours, combined will put me over 1000) and close to 100 integrated reports, with 4-ish pubs (2 first author, 2-3 second and third author), and a handful more manuscripts under preparation/in review. Letter writers will be one ABPP-CN, one non-boarded neuropsych but they are the director of neuropsych at an AMC, and my primary research mentor/DCT (cross-cultural assessment) research.

Fingers crossed.

 

[mackereltabby]

Would agree with all others have shared. I would also encourage to make sure you meet each site's minimum hours requirements to ensure that is not a barrier to being considered for an interview. I don't review applications but often part-take in interviews for our VA internship and residency programs. I can say that having/not having VA experience is considered when attempting to assess fitness with the program, but isn't an absolute no-go, particularly for someone interested in/with experience working with older adults (since that's the majority of VA patients). It can be helpful to have some experience doing things "the VA way" so it is less of a learning curve once the year starts, so if you have a chance to talk to others who have worked in VA settings that'll give you something to talk about in terms of knowing what you are getting into.

Many internships will have specific gero tracks (often with only 1-2 slots) or are general so have X number of slots and then try and recruit trainees with a variety of interests to ensure they can all get the rotations they would want. You might mix it up in applying to places with both gero and general tracks (that have rotations you'd want to experience) to have the best shot matching somewhere that could support your training goals. Good luck!

Thank you so much, this is very helpful!!

 

[mackereltabby]

Makes sure that you have above 500 intervention hours to make the cutoff for some internships. 50 hours of assessment is on the lower side, I would focus on getting as many quality brief assessments are you can in on your neuropsychology rotations. Get familiar with testing instruments like the RBANS and DRS-2 you have not already. You are not going to have huge quantity, so focus on quality. Outside of VA Boston and a few other major geropsych centers, geropsych is a less competitive specialty. Find a place with CLC and HBPC rotations if possible. Staffing for both of these areas was hit hard during the pandemic. Make sure that the rotations where you are applying are currently available.

The good news is that if you are geographically flexible, you should be able to match and there are plenty of jobs that will be available to you as there is a national shortage of well-trained geropsychologists. I also suggest joining APA 12/2 (geropsychology) and PLTC (psychologists in long-term care) if you have not. PLTC in particular is always looking for student reps and it could help to boost your applications.

Thank you so much, this is so helpful. I will definitely look into PLTC!

 

[mackereltabby]

I agree with everyone that you sound competitive! I was wondering about the individual supervision hours...I just looked back to see what I applied with and I had 165 individual supervision hours when I applied to internship (and I only did a 4 year PhD program). I am not sure how much that matters, but thought I would mention it.

Ah good point! I should have more like 140 when I apply - I wonder if that is still on the lower side? I always have 2 hours per week to meet my program requirements.