VA Internships - Security Clearance

[PsychStudent2582]

Hi, I have a question that I'm hoping someone can help me with, particularly someone who works or has worked at a VA and has considered internship applications and ran security background checks on the students that have been accepted for the internship position.

I had a DUI conviction years ago when I was young and stupid (before I started my PsyD program). It was a misdemeanor involving no other people, injuries, or damage. I got it expunged last year. I would like to apply to VA internship sites but I know they will be running a security clearance background check. My question is: will my DUI show up and if so, will they still accept me if it's been expunged? I don't want to go through the entire APPIC process and get matched and then lose my spot because of this. Please help!!!! Thank you in advance.

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[WisNeuro]

You can work in the VA with a DUI, I'd just make sure to list and explain it in your APPIC application/

 

[PsychStudent2582]

But it has been expunged meaning I don't have to disclose it on the appic application. I don't want to be discriminated against or minimize my chances in any way by disclosing the arrest. I just feel it would limit my chances. Between two equally qualified applicant, why would they want to pick the one with a prior arrest? Although, employers are not allowed to discriminate, hold it against me, or even ask me about the arrest if it shows up on their banckground checks as expunged. However, the VA is a government agency and I don't know if it's different for them.

 

[123EW]

But it has been expunged meaning I don't have to disclose it on the appic application. I don't want to be discriminated against or minimize my chances in any way by disclosing the arrest. I just feel it would limit my chances. Between two equally qualified applicant, why would they want to pick the one with a prior arrest? Although, employers are not allowed to discriminate, hold it against me, or even ask me about the arrest if it shows up on their banckground checks as expunged. However, the VA is a government agency and I don't know if it's different for them.

I know of someone at a VA in a similar situation. Disclose it. It will come up. This individual disclosed his DUI and made brief statement along the lines of, "even though it was expunged, I wanted to disclose." Being upfront can show some remorse. I would also suggest you get rid of the "I was young and dumb," mentality. This comes off as justifying younger age is an excuse to engage in illegal and potentially harmful activities. Try something such as, "I made a mistake, and I used this situation to learn XY & Z."

 

[PsychStudent2582]

You can work in the VA with a DUI, I'd just make sure to list and explain it in your APPIC application/

This is what I found online:

"However, if an employer requires finger prints and a signature from you releasing your official Department of Justice (DOJ) criminal record, then they will see your prior convictions and the fact that they have been expunged pursuant PC 1203.4. Pretty much any government job will conduct an official DOJ background check before extending employment, including such professions as: fire fighter, police officer, public school teacher, etc. However, an expunged conviction will not prevent you from getting hired in most government positions."

So does this mean it WILL show up on the background check (I assume the VA will conduct a live scan DOJ background check) but it will say "expunged" meaning they can't use it against me which means I can still keep my internship position (should I be fortunate enough to have matched)?

 

[psych.meout]

Look, if they are actually running a security clearance and not simply a basic criminal background check, you most definitely need to disclose it, especially on the actual security clearance forms and to an interviewer if you ever get a job requiring top secret clearance. (Working at a VA isn't one of these, they don't bother with interviews for anything less than top secret, though they might talk to some people you list on your forms) If you don't and they somehow find out about it at virtually any given point, they are going to hold it against you far more than if you were always open and honest and disclosed it in the first place. This is not only because it is a judge of character, but also because your obfuscation of the truth opens you up to blackmail if an interested party ever finds out about your deception. This third party may hold it against you to exploit any potential government information to which you are privy.

They are way more forgiving than you might think, but only of stuff you are freely disclosing without being caught in lies. If you lie to them, they are not going to do you any favors or offer leniency.

 

[CheetahGirl]

There are two different things here: APPIC application and Federal employment.

I would contact APPIC (anonymously) to inquire about whether the expunged DUI needs to be on the APPIC application (since it was expunged). But once matched to a VA (or any Federal and/or Dept of Health and Human Service job), you will have to disclose per everyone's feedback above. These extensive federal background checks are traced to your fingerprints and SSNs. I would imagine their final report would say what the charge was with 'expunged' next to it, or however it appears. The feds need to know exactly who they are giving access to, and at the level of a VA intern/extern, clearance is thorough because the information is federally protected. Once you work for the VA, background checks are a pretty big deal and not to be taken lightly (so everyone is saying 'own it' despite it being removed from your permanent record). They word it like 'Did you EVER xyx...?' Well, that answer would be 'yes.' (But I don't remember how APPIC words similar questions.)

 

[erg923]

But it has been expunged meaning I don't have to disclose it on the appic application. I don't want to be discriminated against or minimize my chances in any way by disclosing the arrest. I just feel it would limit my chances. Between two equally qualified applicant, why would they want to pick the one with a prior arrest? Although, employers are not allowed to discriminate, hold it against me, or even ask me about the arrest if it shows up on their banckground checks as expunged. However, the VA is a government agency and I don't know if it's different for them.

The people selecting/ranking your for internship aren;t running your prints or the background. All we see is the APPI. All the stuff your talking about happens after you match...and generally is not going to disqualify you. But you cant fib to the VA folks themselves when your filing out their forms.

 

[str63]

The wording on the APPI asks if you've ever been convicted of an offense against the law other than a minor traffic violation. You can check with the APPI folks to see if you need to include something that is expunged, but I'd include it. I'd also suggest to include that it was prior to your graduate program, that you've learned X, Y, and Z, and that it has been expunged from your record. This is typically what others have done. If it comes up in a background check after you match and the program decides you were being deceptive/lied on your initial application, that could potentially be grounds for revoking your match. I believe VA programs can still match with you, despite a DUI.

 

[PsychStudent2582]

Thanks everyone for your great feedback. My initial question was if the DUI would show up on the security clearance and if I would be disqualified despite it being expunged. The consensus I received from everyone's replies is that it will probably show up but I should be able to keep my match since it has been expunged. So thanks for clearing that part up.

But I wanted to clarify a few things.

An expungement basically means that it never happened. Therefore I have a legal right not to disclose it and that nondisclosure cannot be used against me. The only time I have to disclose it is if I am applying for employment with the lottery commission, applying to the military, applying for a public office, or applying for state licensure. I understand that I should (and I plan to) disclose it for positions requiring a security clearance, including the VA internships. But my plan is NOT to disclose it on the APPIC application (and I can do so legally) to maximize my chances of getting my foot in the door. Then after I've been match, I plan to disclose it to the VA or on their security form prior to the security clearance. At that point they cannot say "well, why didn't you disclose it on your appic application" because I had a legal right not to and if that made a difference then that means they would have discriminated against me if they did see that on my appic application. Am I wrong for thinking like this? I'm just so terrified of screwing up my chances. Internship is already terrifying as it is, I don't want to hurt my application in any way.

 

[WisNeuro]

People match all of the time with DUIs which have not been expunged, we've put people in our top group as long as they explained it well and it wasn't a pattern. But, if I later find out that there was a glaring omission in the APPI such as this, I hope that person doesn't ask me to write them a letter for postdoc. It would not go well.

 

[PsychStudent2582]

There is a part of me that wants to disclose it on the APPIC and put it out there so I can have peace of mind, but there's another part of me that is terrified I will be discriminated against. But seems like you're saying the VA's have matched people with DUI's before, that makes me feel a little better. Since it's going to show up in the background check anyways, I guess it's best for me to disclose it now than later. Sigh. Don't ever drink and drive.

 

[WisNeuro]

It's all about chronicity and how someone explains it. We've had people with multiple DUIs, and some recent. Those people get bumped down the list. If it happened a good amount of time in the past, once, usually not a big deal unless their explanation is not good. Where I've been, that consideration is rarely an issue in the final ranking. After the initial applications have been weeded out, it's all about the CV and experiences.

 

[PsychStudent2582]

I know of someone at a VA in a similar situation. Disclose it. It will come up. This individual disclosed his DUI and made brief statement along the lines of, "even though it was expunged, I wanted to disclose." Being upfront can show some remorse. I would also suggest you get rid of the "I was young and dumb," mentality. This comes off as justifying younger age is an excuse to engage in illegal and potentially harmful activities. Try something such as, "I made a mistake, and I used this situation to learn XY & Z."

I didn't see your response until now. Thank you, that was good advice!

 

[deleted106747]

There is a part of me that wants to disclose it on the APPIC and put it out there so I can have peace of mind, but there's another part of me that is terrified I will be discriminated against. But seems like you're saying the VA's have matched people with DUI's before, that makes me feel a little better. Since it's going to show up in the background check anyways, I guess it's best for me to disclose it now than later. Sigh. Don't ever drink and drive.

Something about the way you've worded this makes me think that you need to think this through a bit more so you can address it well on interviews IF it comes up. You're not in a group that could potentially be discriminated against, e.g. racial, sexual orientation, etc. You did something, albeit years ago, that could potentially cause significant harm to yourself or someone else. Disclose it on the application, own it, and discuss what you learned from it. As someone who used to review applicants at the VA, I would not hold it against you if you framed it that way. In fact, I might even see it as a reason to think you were a stronger clinician for it. But your mindset about it will come through on interviews.

 

[LadyHalcyon]

Hi, I have a question that I'm hoping someone can help me with, particularly someone who works or has worked at a VA and has considered internship applications and ran security background checks on the students that have been accepted for the internship position.

I had a DUI conviction years ago when I was young and stupid (before I started my PsyD program). It was a misdemeanor involving no other people, injuries, or damage. I got it expunged last year. I would like to apply to VA internship sites but I know they will be running a security clearance background check. My question is: will my DUI show up and if so, will they still accept me if it's been expunged? I don't want to go through the entire APPIC process and get matched and then lose my spot because of this. Please help!!!! Thank you in advance.

So

 

[LadyHalcyon]

ok

 

[CheetahGirl]

Here ya go. This is the employment form.

@Magick91683 - I would remove this attachment. It is not public record...it is only seen by those who are offered employment. I can see the fine print now 'not to be disturbed widely,' and some federal code by it.

You just never know who is creeping around on the web.

 

[Justanothergrad]

People match all of the time with DUIs which have not been expunged, we've put people in our top group as long as they explained it well and it wasn't a pattern. But, if I later find out that there was a glaring omission in the APPI such as this, I hope that person doesn't ask me to write them a letter for postdoc. It would not go well.

What @WisNeuro said would be my fear.

Aside from that. I wouldn't want to be at a place where my background was something I had to hide in order to fit in/be accepted. But that's a personal balance issue for me. If people don't believe in change, I don't want to be part of the placement; I know that would make me a bad 'fit'. I've known folks with DUIs place at the VA for internship and jobs. I have a record (no-DUI but substance related) and I was given the feedback that the way I addressed it during the APPI application was seen positively. Best of luck PsychStudent, whichever option you choose.