Vascular Surgery as a DO

[sandstone]

Vascular surgery sounds pretty awesome. I noticed that there are no AOA residencies in the specialty. It looks like 96.7% of ACGME integrated (5 year) spots are filled by MDs, and 67.3% of ACGME traditional (5-7 year) spots are filled by MDs according to this link:

https://www.aamc.org/students/medstudents/cim/choicesnewsletter/winter12/264480/salaryscoresandotherstats.html

I know that it would be possible to do an AOA gen. surgery residency and then an ACGME vas. surgery fellowship, but I'm wondering if anyone out there has any more input on the possibiltiy of a DO getting into a ACGME vascular surgery residency. Thanks!

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[YShi]

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[cliquesh]

http://www.pcom.edu/graduate_medical_education/Residency_Programs/Residency_Program s.html

I saw this one. Maybe current PCOM students or residents can give more info. I am interested also.

The residency will be hard to get because there are so few spots. There were 41 vascular surgery residency spots offered last year and 1 was taken by a DO. The fellowship doesnt seem too hard to get, though. every year or every other year one of PCOM's residents goes into vascular surgery. So take that for whatever it is worth.

http://www.pcomsurgery.org/Program-Alumni.php

 

[CardioPlus]

There are AOA vascular surgery fellowships. NYCOM and MSUCOM just opened 2 new programs this year alone in Buffalo and Detroit, respectively. I couldn't get the link to work, but there are a total of 8 programs. Go to: opportunities.osteopathic.org and click 'program search.' Then just select 'general vascular surgery' as the specialty and you can get info on the different programs.

 

[gochiefs]

pro tip: vascular surgery is awful

 

[sandstone]

Thanks for the info everyone. Gochiefs, why do you say its awful?

 

[Trogghunter]

pro tip: vascular surgery is awful

I asked this same question of our head of surgery, and basically got that response. He also said that you'd probably need to go allopathic to get a vasc fellowship, but getting there could burn your bridges in the DO world. Not sure if it was bias... but that was my first year and I have no interest in surgery anyway.

 

[gochiefs]

Vascular surgery is awful because of the hours and the patient population. Once you do a rotation you'll understand. As far as fellowship training after doing a general surgery residency goes, from what I've heard, the only ones that are highly competitive are plastics and pediatric surgery. Otherwise, you basically just need a pulse and a set of hands. Now with the combining of GME programs, I don't think there should be any problems getting a vascular fellowship regardless of where you do your residency training. That's the impression that I have gotten from talking to some surgery residents.

 

[bleeker10]

I've talked/rotated with a couple vascular surgeons and while they like the field, they had many negatives to say about it. One is, as the previous poster alluded to, the patient population. These are people who come to your service because they have historically done an atrocious job of taking care of themselves. They are usually very sick (vasculopaths, DM, ESRD on dialysis, etc) and many of them are on Medicaid which doesn't pay as well for the procedures. There's also encroachment of the procedures by other fields such as IR, interventional cards, etc.

 

[da Vincis World]

I asked this same question of our head of surgery, and basically got that response. He also said that you'd probably need to go allopathic to get a vasc fellowship, but getting there could burn your bridges in the DO world. Not sure if it was bias... but that was my first year and I have no interest in surgery anyway.

If you are going to do an ACGME fellowship why would it matter if "DO world" bridges were burned?

 

[cabinbuilder]

Thanks for the info everyone. Gochiefs, why do you say its awful?

Most of the patients are elderly, poorly controlled diabetics, smokers who have no interest in quitting. Their legs and feet are slowly rotting away.

OR, you have patients who have really bad varicose veins who need stripping.


Many of these cases are taken care of by IR anymore due to the advances in stents and the really good guys and get into any artery in the body through the groin. Blood less fix and no recovery time.

 

[goooooober]

I am a current PGY-6 surgical resident at University MD program.

Some clarifications.

Integrated vascular programs are more competitive based on number of available spots, but in time, they will largely replace the current 5 years of gen surg followed by 2 yrs of fellowship.

As DO, currently the chances are much better to land the fellowship post GS.

Vascular is competitive at good programs. In fact, all specialties are very competitive at the best programs. So, you need more than a pulse to become a very good vascular surgeon (or any other doctor for that matter).

Next, while the fellowship is difficult in terms of demands, hours, patient population, etc, the field is one of the most in demand with the most opportunity to establish a largely elective practice after training (mainly endovascular at community hospitals or doing cosmetic veins). You don't even have to take gen surg call to practice it.


Finally, while the patient population is sick with DM, and heart dz and etc, you will only deal with the vasculopathy and then have your IM friends take care of the rest after your procedures.


Overall, the vast majority that do vascular are very happy with their practice, lifestyle, income and negotiating power in todays market.

Best of luck.