veterinary costs

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Iamnew2

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hi all
I'm not a vet - I do have multiple pets (dogs) and curious about how veterinary costs have exploded?
what's the rationale behind this? recently took my dog to the vet where we were told that something as common place in human medicine as an MRI would cost 4-6K, testings costs hundreds to thousands of dollars.
what gives?
I am shocked at the rising costs and likely what's driving a lot of animals being put down and others abandoning them due to excessive costs
curious about thoughts
thanks
 
Corporate buy ups and subsequent domino effect from that

Inflation/cost of goods/cost of equipment to run said tests especially post covid and now tariffs

Cost of doing business-paying employees, insurances, utilities, etc

As for something like an mri. Mri machines often cost millions of dollars so the facilities have to be able to pay for them. Remember human health care is often subsidized with your insurance which many pets don't have. Pets also have to have anesthesia to do an mri which is an added expense that people don't have to incur. Plus you're paying a specialist to read the images.

Literally one drug will go on back order and then we are able to finally buy it again and due to the limited quantity the price skyrockets. Prices change very frequently in regards to medication.

There's no one reason but many compounding factors and one reason I recommend looking into pet insurance for all pets and deciding if its the right call for the owner and their situation. Otherwise I do alot of not "gold standard" treatment because of cost and location limitations, but then don't expect me to know what's wrong with your pet because we ran 0 diagnostics and it didn't respond to my best guess based on limited info.

It's hard for sure. Im a vet and I have insurance on my pets should something huge happen because yes it can be expensive.
 
we were told that something as common place in human medicine as an MRI would cost 4-6K, testings costs hundreds to thousands of dollars.
what gives?
How much does a human hospital charge for that MRI? Both self pay and to human insurance? We use the same machines. But one reason something like an MRI may be more expensive in veterinary medicine is that we don’t often have imaging centers to help spread the costs around across many clinics and patients…if a hospital wants an MRI on site, they usually have to pay for their own unit and it has to generate enough revenue to pay for itself. Plus you have to staff it, you need dedicated techs to monitor anesthesia and recover the patient, (and these can’t be regular techs because there’s probably other patients being seen on er, so now you’re talking about paying someone in call to come in when you need to run an MRI if it’s after hours or having a dedicated tech, and you have to charge accordingly). There are some outpatient veterinary imaging centers run by radiologists, but those are outliers and not the norm (and also usually day clinics not emergency ones). Likewise, it’s expected that every hospital has its own ultrasound, xray machine, and in-house labs. All that equipment people want/need is expensive on top of all the other expenses of running a public business. People are expensive to employ, rent is skyrocketing. Costs are up everywhere. Honestly, the costs I’ve seen in vet med are pretty similar to what I’ve seen places that don’t take insurance in human medicine cost.

The quality of care in vet med has risen exponentially over the last twenty years or so, so it doesn’t surprise me that costs have risen. Are things expensive? Yes absolutely. Does that often impact patient care? Also Yes absolutely. But someone has to cover the costs and that’s the pet owner, because as much as we love animals, vet hospitals are not a charity (with rare exceptions) and we charge everyone one price, not inflated insurance rates to some and cheaper rates to others like for humans. People can always deny advanced diagnostics and take home “well, we can try this” medications and hope it works like we used to do before advanced diagnostics were an option, if that’s their prerogative. I keep insurance on my own pets because I know I would want advanced, high level care for my pets for most issues.
 
How much does a human hospital charge for that MRI? Both self pay and to human insurance? We use the same machines. But one reason something like an MRI may be more expensive in veterinary medicine is that we don’t often have imaging centers to help spread the costs around across many clinics and patients…if a hospital wants an MRI on site, they usually have to pay for their own unit and it has to generate enough revenue to pay for itself. Plus you have to staff it, you need dedicated techs to monitor anesthesia and recover the patient, (and these can’t be regular techs because there’s probably other patients being seen on er, so now you’re talking about paying someone in call to come in when you need to run an MRI if it’s after hours or having a dedicated tech, and you have to charge accordingly). There are some outpatient veterinary imaging centers run by radiologists, but those are outliers and not the norm (and also usually day clinics not emergency ones). Likewise, it’s expected that every hospital has its own ultrasound, xray machine, and in-house labs. All that equipment people want/need is expensive on top of all the other expenses of running a public business. People are expensive to employ, rent is skyrocketing. Costs are up everywhere. Honestly, the costs I’ve seen in vet med are pretty similar to what I’ve seen places that don’t take insurance in human medicine cost.

The quality of care in vet med has risen exponentially over the last twenty years or so, so it doesn’t surprise me that costs have risen. Are things expensive? Yes absolutely. Does that often impact patient care? Also Yes absolutely. But someone has to cover the costs and that’s the pet owner, because as much as we love animals, vet hospitals are not a charity (with rare exceptions) and we charge everyone one price, not inflated insurance rates to some and cheaper rates to others like for humans. People can always deny advanced diagnostics and take home “well, we can try this” medications and hope it works like we used to do before advanced diagnostics were an option, if that’s their prerogative. I keep insurance on my own pets because I know I would want advanced, high level care for my pets for most issues.

Human MRI are massively cheaper - around 2K, even out of pocket. I feel it's corporate medicine that's destroying veterinary practices. Seems like a desperate hunger for money. I don't think 99% of people would have 6K to pay for an MRI.
And I personally have had such negative experiences with vets - even specialist vets don't seem to be able to get the diagnoses right despite exorbitant costs.
So sad.
Greed I feel is destroying the practice of vet med.
 
Corporate buy ups and subsequent domino effect from that

Inflation/cost of goods/cost of equipment to run said tests especially post covid and now tariffs

Cost of doing business-paying employees, insurances, utilities, etc

As for something like an mri. Mri machines often cost millions of dollars so the facilities have to be able to pay for them. Remember human health care is often subsidized with your insurance which many pets don't have. Pets also have to have anesthesia to do an mri which is an added expense that people don't have to incur. Plus you're paying a specialist to read the images.

Literally one drug will go on back order and then we are able to finally buy it again and due to the limited quantity the price skyrockets. Prices change very frequently in regards to medication.

There's no one reason but many compounding factors and one reason I recommend looking into pet insurance for all pets and deciding if its the right call for the owner and their situation. Otherwise I do alot of not "gold standard" treatment because of cost and location limitations, but then don't expect me to know what's wrong with your pet because we ran 0 diagnostics and it didn't respond to my best guess based on limited info.

It's hard for sure. Im a vet and I have insurance on my pets should something huge happen because yes it can be expensive.
I understand what you are saying, I feel it's gotten insane though.
We had one of my parents dachshunds who deteriorated rapidly - vets did imaging/x-rays/US - thought he had pneumonia, started him on antifungals, then said they didn't know/weren't sure, then they said he had cancer but weren't sure but continue giving antifungals, etc. all to the cost to my parents of thousands with no understanding of what was going on - and he ended up passing within a few days/weeks.
I had a similar experience with my dachshund who developed a sudden issue - despite imaging, and hundreds of dollars didn't know what was happening.
I kept thinking to myself and even told the vet - if this happened in human medicine I'd get sued!
I had to put down my dachshund - as soon as I walked into the room and I was crying my heart out the tech comes with the payment machine - costs me close to $400 to put him down (corporate practice).
When my parents had to put down their dachshund because he developed irreversible neurological issues/advanced ivdd, he charged them $175 (his practice is not nearly as nice though). clearly I see greed as the main driving factor
sorry for the rant, I have found these experiences incredibly frustrating and greed driven.
 
We ask for payment before euthanasias because it’s far better to do it then than after the pet is dead and people are grieving even harder/crying/upset. There’s no good time to ask for payment for that, but there are costs associated with that service as well (drugs, the veterinarian’s time, the technician’s time, the receptionists time, body care/bagging/probably cremation), and people don’t pay bills after the fact very well, so when would you like to pay?

If you’re just wanting validation and to vent, may I suggest one of the many other online forums and not a place meant for the very people you’re calling greedy and trying to insult? Especially when by and large most vets are just employees and have no say in pricing.
 
I understand what you are saying, I feel it's gotten insane though.
We had one of my parents dachshunds who deteriorated rapidly - vets did imaging/x-rays/US - thought he had pneumonia, started him on antifungals, then said they didn't know/weren't sure, then they said he had cancer but weren't sure but continue giving antifungals, etc. all to the cost to my parents of thousands with no understanding of what was going on - and he ended up passing within a few days/weeks.
I had a similar experience with my dachshund who developed a sudden issue - despite imaging, and hundreds of dollars didn't know what was happening.
I kept thinking to myself and even told the vet - if this happened in human medicine I'd get sued!
I had to put down my dachshund - as soon as I walked into the room and I was crying my heart out the tech comes with the payment machine - costs me close to $400 to put him down (corporate practice).
When my parents had to put down their dachshund because he developed irreversible neurological issues/advanced ivdd, he charged them $175 (his practice is not nearly as nice though). clearly I see greed as the main driving factor
sorry for the rant, I have found these experiences incredibly frustrating and greed driven.
You've received answers for the multitude of complicated reasons why veterinary costs are high, but from your responses you are more interested in placing blame for unfortunate situations than in real understanding. I am sorry for the things you and your family have gone through - it sucks to not get a diagnosis on a beloved family member despite best efforts. If you are involved with human medicine you should know that is not rare in that field either, and it is unreasonable to expect perfection when addressing complicated medical problems. Sometimes even the most thorough diagnostics and the best care cannot fight biology.

Regardless, as Jayna said, this is not the place to air your grievances with the veterinary field. If you want to call corporations greedy I don't think most of us would disagree with you - they do exist to make money, and many of us are frustrated with the corporate takeover of the field. But if you're going to come into this space and say that veterinarians as a whole practice subpar medicine and/or are greedy, that is simply inappropriate and I would ask you take that elsewhere.
 
Going on the basis that you're here truly in good faith to learn from the inside why costs are increasing:

Simply put, capitalism. Veterinary care is paid out of pocket by the pet own, pure and simple no different than how I pay out of pocket for my mortgage, catalytic converter, and groceries. There's no subsidizing it on the front end. So the cost of care is dictated by what the market is willing to bare, no different than anything else.

This is even more true for veterinary emergency medicine. 75% of emergency and specialty practices are owned by corporations, which in turn are owned by venture capital, private equity corps or other similar business models. The entire *point* for those companies is to make year-over-year increases in income. The majority of C-suite folks in these companies are actually paid on bonuses that are a percentage of the year over year yield. Here's a YouTube video that describes how these companies work regardless of industry:

So, what does that mean for those of us at the bottom of the totem pole? Well, it means that, for now, veterinary medicine, particularly specialty and emergency medicine, is a numbers game. And let me tell you, that vibe is real. My hospital group is owned by a PE corp. Our original hospital was purchased during the pandemic pet surge when we were making millions per month, literally. We opened two more hospitals since 2022. Now? Losing money. Quite literally, my hospital is 165k in the hole as of May 1, and it's likely worse now. We're nearly 2 million dollars below targets that the corporate relays to us across all 3 hospitals. So what's happened? Across 3 hospitals, we've lost 10/21 doctors, our operations manager, a practice manager, multiple assistants and technicians. We've lost more than 10% of our staff since May 1. All due to corporate upheavals. We've had to close at least one of our hospitals 4 times overnight in the last 2 weeks because we don't have staff to fill the holes.

The problem? Cyclical to a certain extent. They built our struggling hospital in the wrong location by about 1 mile east and 1/2 mile north. The clientele difference is probably from 150k/year household income vs 60k/year. So the hospital is hemorrhaging money because they built it in an area that cannot afford an emergency veterinary hospital. And it's not that we are necessarily too expensive as a whole; we're one of the cheapest ER groups in the whole metro area I'm in. It's that some areas cannot sustain veterinary care financially. This has been a problem in rural America for decades where there's one vet for 250 square miles because that's what that area can financially support. The difference now is that the urban and suburban areas are going to experience the same for a different reason.

We're already feeling the effects in vet med. Many urgent cares owned by VCA have been closed after being open only 2 years. Blue Pearl is reducing costs for surgery and hospitalization by 20-30% and closing hospitals. More privately owned hospitals in my area are opening urgent care slots and hours and hiring doctors and staff specifically for that purpose (but not 24 hour hospitals).

We've already hit on another point: labor costs. The doctors in my practice are some of the worst paid in the area. However, that is partly because our techs are some of the best paid (if not the best) techs in the entire area. How much do you think an emergency technician should be paid? How much should a doctor be paid? In comparison to human medicine, technicians are paid 1/4-1/2 of what human nurses are paid; doctors are paid 1/3-1/2 of what human doctors are paid. I haven't had a raise in two years, however (I'm asking for one this week). And yet, I have the same level of student loans as a human doctor, and technicians still have between 30-50k in student loans for an associate degree. My student loans would be 1400/month if I was paying them right now (currently in forebarence); 550 of that is just my interest, FYI. My students loans are $8.75/hr if you look at them from the perspective of how much I need to earn to cover them.

I get your frustration. Trust me. Cause I'm the one euthanizing these animals every single shift. So I have at least one of you every day that I get to talk to about this same exact thing. And this is why the average vet is in ER med only 5 years and technicians leave the industry entirely on average in 5-7 years.

However, it's not my fault, nor my technician's or practice manager's fault. We are all hourly employees (my practice is unique in that doctors are hourly rather than salary). I am no different in level of power than the person checking you out at the grocery store.

Things will change. It's just going suck for now for everyone. What can you do to help? Go to a private practice as a client and buy everything from them, including your prescriptions. Every dollar kept in a private practice is a dollar not given to a VC or PE corp, including folks like Chewy.

Until then, good luck. Do preventative care. If something happens, get checked sooner rather than later.

Now, a few points:

MRI would cost 4-6K

Human MRI costs are between 400-12000 depending on the body part and location you're at. And humans don't need anesthesia. Anesthesia alone for a full body MRI for my pitt bull would be 1000 alone since a full body MRI takes 2.5 hours for her size of dog. So that's a huge part of it.

And I personally have had such negative experiences with vets - even specialist vets don't seem to be able to get the diagnoses right despite exorbitant costs.

Serious question: how is any doctor, human or vet, going to be right 100% of the time? That's not realistic just based on statistics, let alone in medicine. My dad was hospitalized for the entire month of Feb 2024 after a stroke event (250k bill, by the way; no way a dog would *ever* have that high of a bill for any reason). And they never figured out why he had a stroke at 57 and his GI doctor didn't realize he had an extra luminal obstruction because human doctors don't deal with a lot of obstructions in general. I called it as an obstruction 5 days because he was diagnosed because I see it every day.

It's even harder in animals because they can't talk. That's the big factor here. And we have a lot less research and knowledge.
 
Going on the basis that you're here truly in good faith to learn from the inside why costs are increasing:

Simply put, capitalism. Veterinary care is paid out of pocket by the pet own, pure and simple no different than how I pay out of pocket for my mortgage, catalytic converter, and groceries. There's no subsidizing it on the front end. So the cost of care is dictated by what the market is willing to bare, no different than anything else.

This is even more true for veterinary emergency medicine. 75% of emergency and specialty practices are owned by corporations, which in turn are owned by venture capital, private equity corps or other similar business models. The entire *point* for those companies is to make year-over-year increases in income. The majority of C-suite folks in these companies are actually paid on bonuses that are a percentage of the year over year yield. Here's a YouTube video that describes how these companies work regardless of industry:

So, what does that mean for those of us at the bottom of the totem pole? Well, it means that, for now, veterinary medicine, particularly specialty and emergency medicine, is a numbers game. And let me tell you, that vibe is real. My hospital group is owned by a PE corp. Our original hospital was purchased during the pandemic pet surge when we were making millions per month, literally. We opened two more hospitals since 2022. Now? Losing money. Quite literally, my hospital is 165k in the hole as of May 1, and it's likely worse now. We're nearly 2 million dollars below targets that the corporate relays to us across all 3 hospitals. So what's happened? Across 3 hospitals, we've lost 10/21 doctors, our operations manager, a practice manager, multiple assistants and technicians. We've lost more than 10% of our staff since May 1. All due to corporate upheavals. We've had to close at least one of our hospitals 4 times overnight in the last 2 weeks because we don't have staff to fill the holes.

The problem? Cyclical to a certain extent. They built our struggling hospital in the wrong location by about 1 mile east and 1/2 mile north. The clientele difference is probably from 150k/year household income vs 60k/year. So the hospital is hemorrhaging money because they built it in an area that cannot afford an emergency veterinary hospital. And it's not that we are necessarily too expensive as a whole; we're one of the cheapest ER groups in the whole metro area I'm in. It's that some areas cannot sustain veterinary care financially. This has been a problem in rural America for decades where there's one vet for 250 square miles because that's what that area can financially support. The difference now is that the urban and suburban areas are going to experience the same for a different reason.

We're already feeling the effects in vet med. Many urgent cares owned by VCA have been closed after being open only 2 years. Blue Pearl is reducing costs for surgery and hospitalization by 20-30% and closing hospitals. More privately owned hospitals in my area are opening urgent care slots and hours and hiring doctors and staff specifically for that purpose (but not 24 hour hospitals).

We've already hit on another point: labor costs. The doctors in my practice are some of the worst paid in the area. However, that is partly because our techs are some of the best paid (if not the best) techs in the entire area. How much do you think an emergency technician should be paid? How much should a doctor be paid? In comparison to human medicine, technicians are paid 1/4-1/2 of what human nurses are paid; doctors are paid 1/3-1/2 of what human doctors are paid. I haven't had a raise in two years, however (I'm asking for one this week). And yet, I have the same level of student loans as a human doctor, and technicians still have between 30-50k in student loans for an associate degree. My student loans would be 1400/month if I was paying them right now (currently in forebarence); 550 of that is just my interest, FYI. My students loans are $8.75/hr if you look at them from the perspective of how much I need to earn to cover them.

I get your frustration. Trust me. Cause I'm the one euthanizing these animals every single shift. So I have at least one of you every day that I get to talk to about this same exact thing. And this is why the average vet is in ER med only 5 years and technicians leave the industry entirely on average in 5-7 years.

However, it's not my fault, nor my technician's or practice manager's fault. We are all hourly employees (my practice is unique in that doctors are hourly rather than salary). I am no different in level of power than the person checking you out at the grocery store.

Things will change. It's just going suck for now for everyone. What can you do to help? Go to a private practice as a client and buy everything from them, including your prescriptions. Every dollar kept in a private practice is a dollar not given to a VC or PE corp, including folks like Chewy.

Until then, good luck. Do preventative care. If something happens, get checked sooner rather than later.

Now, a few points:



Human MRI costs are between 400-12000 depending on the body part and location you're at. And humans don't need anesthesia. Anesthesia alone for a full body MRI for my pitt bull would be 1000 alone since a full body MRI takes 2.5 hours for her size of dog. So that's a huge part of it.



Serious question: how is any doctor, human or vet, going to be right 100% of the time? That's not realistic just based on statistics, let alone in medicine. My dad was hospitalized for the entire month of Feb 2024 after a stroke event (250k bill, by the way; no way a dog would *ever* have that high of a bill for any reason). And they never figured out why he had a stroke at 57 and his GI doctor didn't realize he had an extra luminal obstruction because human doctors don't deal with a lot of obstructions in general. I called it as an obstruction 5 days because he was diagnosed because I see it every day.

It's even harder in animals because they can't talk. That's the big factor here. And we have a lot less research and knowledge.


This was a well thought out and post that definitely is to be respected. I thank you.
Just as one side comment, no human MRI is ever 12k btw. Not even if you entire body was scanned.
But your post makes sense and it's very rational. Again thank you
 
This was a well thought out and post that definitely is to be respected. I thank you.
Just as one side comment, no human MRI is ever 12k btw. Not even if you entire body was scanned.
But your post makes sense and it's very rational. Again thank you


Literally the first link on Google when searching "cost of MRI without insurance"


A couple links down. Nearly 9k for an MRI in South Jersey, which is not the highest COL in the country. I can absolutely see an MRI being 12k.

For the record, I said the same thing as everyone else. The major difference was that I have the personal example of my unicorn hospital crumbling from beneath me. I want that to be crystal clear.
 
Across 3 hospitals, we've lost 10/21 doctors, our operations manager, a practice manager, multiple assistants and technicians.
the way this number has increased every time you talk about it is nuts. 4 then 6 then 9, and now 10. Wow.

(Just to be clear for those who may be new, I’m in no way saying bats is exaggerating, just it’s such a remarkable situation and how it keeps getting worse and worse)
 
the way this number has increased every time you talk about it is nuts. 4 then 6 then 9, and now 10. Wow.

(Just to be clear for those who may be new, I’m in no way saying bats is exaggerating, just it’s such a remarkable situation and how it keeps getting worse and worse)

It's fine. I'm fine. Everything is fine 🫠. Once the dust is settled, I'm all for a play-by-play in the Rant thread. I'm keeping screen shots and notes too. Corporate was not anticipating our little rebellion.

I'm submitting a letter for a raise on Wed or Thursday. We'll see how that goes. 😅 I don't want to leave, but when local urgent cares are offering the same base pay with no overnights, my husband's patience will only go so far.
 
I understand what you are saying, I feel it's gotten insane though.
We had one of my parents dachshunds who deteriorated rapidly - vets did imaging/x-rays/US - thought he had pneumonia, started him on antifungals, then said they didn't know/weren't sure, then they said he had cancer but weren't sure but continue giving antifungals, etc. all to the cost to my parents of thousands with no understanding of what was going on - and he ended up passing within a few days/weeks.
I had a similar experience with my dachshund who developed a sudden issue - despite imaging, and hundreds of dollars didn't know what was happening.
I kept thinking to myself and even told the vet - if this happened in human medicine I'd get sued!
I had to put down my dachshund - as soon as I walked into the room and I was crying my heart out the tech comes with the payment machine - costs me close to $400 to put him down (corporate practice).
When my parents had to put down their dachshund because he developed irreversible neurological issues/advanced ivdd, he charged them $175 (his practice is not nearly as nice though). clearly I see greed as the main driving factor
sorry for the rant, I have found these experiences incredibly frustrating and greed driven.
1. I’m guessing you don’t have the full story and are going by what your parents told you. Which means maybe 50% (at best) of the info you are hearing is actually correct. That’s not to comment on your parents personally, that’s just how it is.

2. If you want to talk about doctors not figuring stuff out or making good decisions, I can tell you how my dad’s GP fumbled his case so badly that he ended up on a ventilator after being given months of antibiotics for what ended up being a fungal infection. The GP’s exceptionally poor decision making and guidance ended up costing my dad his life. Me, the greedy vet, would have referred him after 1-2 courses when it was clear abx weren’t helping. His care cost millions. Millions. He had pretty great insurance, my mom will still be paying on his medical bills until she dies.

Human docs and nurses make life-ruining fatal medical mistakes and terrible decisions on a very routine basis. Misdiagnoses included. To say that ‘vets/vet specialists never get it right’ is crazy. This is pretty classic high-horse stuff that we get from human med people all the time. Isn’t the current stat that a few hundred thousand people die from medical errors every year? And even more experience nonfatal injury? But we never seem to get it right?

Granted, I don’t think there is a similar study in vet med, hospitals track this stuff individually though.

3. If you work in a human hospital or medical office, I suggest you do some investigating on actual costs, high level imaging including interpretation is crazy expensive. Some places are charging inpatients $20+ for a dose of ibuprofen, or charging for a new mom to hold her own baby after birth, and you can’t believe that an MRI could be thousands? I had a focused repro ultrasound two months ago and that was $850 before my insurance helped out. A full abdominal ultrasound in the vet world would be around $450-650, to give a wide guesstimate based off my knowledge. And we have radiologists doing the ultrasound, not a tech.
 
Actually, after reviewing some of your post history, it seems you might be well aware of the greed that is billing and charging in human medicine, and have yourself given examples of suspicious charging. But yet, our profession is being destroyed by greed and we charge too much…? Man I could really keep going on this.
 
Actually, after reviewing some of your post history, it seems you might be well aware of the greed that is billing and charging in human medicine, and have yourself given examples of suspicious charging. But yet, our profession is being destroyed by greed and we charge too much…? Man I could really keep going on this.

Hot damn. This quote in particular:

As an independent contractor, I was getting $150k for the med director stipend.

As I've said elsewhere, the medical director position in my hospital is 80-110/hr for the whole position, including the "stipend". For reference, I'm paid 75/hr in an associate position.

There is a hell of a lot of missing information now with this background info in regards to the personal cases referenced. I absolutely thought @Iamnew2 was a lay person looking for information. Now that I know they are not just a medical professional, but a MD/DO medical director, I'm actually appalled by how things went with this thread. If *anyone* should understand how costs of healthcare work, it should be a human medical director.

After all PE and VC corps have been infiltrating human medicine (ER specifically) much longer than veterinary medicine. If anything, veterinary medicine was specifically targeted due to how well things went in human medicine for these corps.

And the statements of poor or no diagnoses despite "expensive" diagnostics? Get outta here. That's some absolute crap coming from a human doctor. If anyone should understand the difficulties in medicine, it's another doctor. Medical error is the third leading cause of death in humans. And it's not because human doctors and other health care providers are always bad at their job. It's because medicine is hard, no matter the species. No wonder I didn't get an answer to my question on if this poster expects doctors to be correct 100% of the time. It's because they already know that's an impossible ask because they themselves are a doctor 🙄

Now that we have some background info, I'd love to know how much they think veterinary care should cost when factoring in everything we've discussed?
 
Now that we have some background info, I'd love to know how much they think veterinary care should cost when factoring in everything we've discussed?
I have asked this of a few doctors who’ve complained about my estimates. Doctors complain about pricing and sometimes try to steamroll us, nurses just treat everyone in the hospital like crap after trying to self diagnose/treat their dying pet at home for weeks before finally bringing it in (we are making sweeping generalizations about professionals, right?). Most human med people have absolutely no idea what they charge for their own services on the daily. Someone else does that for them.

“$5000-7000 for emergency surgery? You’re insane! What do you drive, a Lamborghini?”

When I asked one dude (radiologist or anesthesiologist I think, can’t remember now) what he thought it should cost, he actually said ‘a few hundred at most.’ Then I hit him with ‘in today’s economy, what type of medical quality would you expect to get with an emergency hemoabdomen surgery followed by 2-3 days of ICU care for a few hundred bucks?’ And got the dumbest blank look back. We get you want to pay $5, but that’s not what it costs.

Cherry on top: Same guy also said ‘I’m going to make my GP pay for this since she clearly missed this tumor on his routine exam 6 months ago.’ Classic.

You will absolutely get what you pay for in vet med, just like you would in human med, or really any service-type field you can think of. some clinic down the road can do a spay for $150, when your GP charges $800, and you think your GP is scamming you? The first clinic is doing a hell of a lot less (sometime no) anesthetic monitoring, preop care, might only have one vet and one assistant, etc. I’m not including subsidized low cost clinics in that comparison, but a human doctor shouldn’t need to utilize those 😉
 
When I asked one dude (radiologist or anesthesiologist I think, can’t remember now) what he thought it should cost, he actually said ‘a few hundred at most.’ Then I hit him with ‘in today’s economy, what type of medical quality would you expect to get with an emergency hemoabdomen surgery followed by 2-3 days of ICU care for a few hundred bucks?’ And got the dumbest blank look back. We get you want to pay $5, but that’s not what it costs.
I have occasionally talked to clients about the cost of the exact same procedure in human medicine. Specifically a hemilam.

When we get a down dog come in (that is truly down, not an ambulatory dog with mild CP deficits), they get advanced imaging within a day. Sometimes, they might have to wait a couple days if it needs MRI, as we don't have the capacity to run ours on the weekend, but we often can get the info we need with a CT instead - though this is not the case for cervical myelopathies and we do refer those elsewhere if they come in at a time where we can't do MRI. They almost always get cut the same day as their imaging. The cost estimate? $5000-7000 for a hemilam.

I've had my own hemilam for a lumbosacral disc. I didn't even get imaging until 3 months after I first started having clinical signs, which at the time were mild, but by the time I got imaged, I was a true ambulatory paraparetic with severe pain. I didn't get cut until several months after my imaging. The cost of all of that? Over $50,000 (in 2012 dollars).

I'd be surprised if the OP of this thread actually wants a productive conversation, though. It seems more like he has an axe to grind - and as @WildZoo already said, we will be closely monitoring this thread and should OP's intentions be clearly that, they will be told to take it elsewhere.
 
but by the time I got imaged
I didn't get cut until several months after my imaging.
A whole other can of worms. We get nervous when a suspected obstruction has to wait a few hours for an ultrasound or final rad review, and human medicine has us out here waiting months for stuff. I am so sorry you had to be in pain for that long.
 
Labor and vaginal delivery:
1. Baby bats 1.0 was around 50k w/ an ineffective epidural and hospitalization for 60hrs.
2. Baby bats 2.0 was around 70k w/ awesome epidural and hospitalization for two separate rooms (mine and the adoptive family)

Labor and vaginal delivery for a dog in my hospital? 5k max.
 
... What can you do to help? Go to a private practice as a client and buy everything from them, including your prescriptions. Every dollar kept in a private practice is a dollar not given to a VC or PE corp, including folks like Chewy.
@battie,

I have been purchasing canned cat food and cat litter from a big-box PetSm**t store in my area because I thought I was being "supportive" of a merchant that hires local people to work in the store. The canned cat food does not require any prescription and the litter is a popular brand of cat litter that is often sold in many grocery stores.

I thought buying cat food and litter from that big-box local store would "help" keep people gainfully employed in their local town. The store's employees work really hard and I appreciate their hard work. Many of them live near the store and I know many of them by their first names.

Are you suggesting it would be more helpful to go to the local veterinary medicine private practices and purchase canned cat food and litter from the private practices instead of the local big-box store? Would that be more helpful/supportive?
 
@battie,

I have been purchasing canned cat food and cat litter from a big-box PetSm**t store in my area because I thought I was being "supportive" of a merchant that hires local people to work in the store. The canned cat food does not require any prescription and the litter is a popular brand of cat litter that is often sold in many grocery stores.

I thought buying cat food and litter from that big-box local store would "help" keep people gainfully employed in their local town. The store's employees work really hard and I appreciate their hard work. Many of them live near the store and I know many of them by their first names.

Are you suggesting it would be more helpful to go to the local veterinary medicine private practices and purchase canned cat food and litter from the private practices instead of the local big-box store? Would that be more helpful/supportive?
Your local vet isn’t going to be selling OTC diets and litter. Perhaps a locally owned pet store, or a local smaller chain if those are in your area
 
Human MRI are massively cheaper - around 2K, even out of pocket. I feel it's corporate medicine that's destroying veterinary practices. Seems like a desperate hunger for money. I don't think 99% of people would have 6K to pay for an MRI.
And I personally have had such negative experiences with vets - even specialist vets don't seem to be able to get the diagnoses right despite exorbitant costs.
So sad.
Greed I feel is destroying the practice of vet med.
My neck MRI was $5000….. I don’t think I’ve ever heard of someone getting a $2000 MRI if so where cause I need another one soon. This also is not accounting for that animals need to be under GA for MRIs while people do not typically.

My analogy to clients is that where I work charges $500 for a spay (which is on the higher end) vs my MILs hysterectomy cost $50,000. People get sticker shock with veterinary prices because they are used to bills after insurance.
 
I mean also add to the MRI the anesthesia required…

Routine labor and delivery for me was >$30k… with something like $15 for each dose of Tylenol.

Though I will say I went to urgent care and they had a sign that said they can take x-rays but will not go through insurance and needed to self pay. And I remember it being cheaper or about as much as we would charge for dogs/cats.

Regardless, at the end of the day it’s sort of useless to gripe about pricing as if that will make the pricing go down. It’s a capitalist society we live in, and high level medical treatment for dogs and cats are indeed a first world luxury, especially when humane euthanasia is available. Sucks when it is a treatable problem, but there is also a difference between $500 treatable and $10k+ treatable. I would argue we can all try and help find solutions for the former, but I think the latter we have to accept is a luxury that few animals should be afforded. Just like if Bill Gates got diagnosed with cancer, his chances of beating it is probably higher than any of us Joe schmoes. That is even if we are able to get fairly good treatment options at somewhere like Dana Farber.
 
I went to the ER for a migraine with worsening and new symptoms. I got full labs, an emergency CT w/ contrast, an MRI, an EKG, and a whole host of fluids and meds. I only paid $75 out of pocket. My explanation of benefits was over $24,000. People have a really horrifically skewed idea of what vet med costs because we are so used to a system subsidized by government and insurance (which is a whole other can of worms to open). I had a guy argue with me on the phone that he didn't want to pay the $205 emergency exam fee when his dog got stung by a bee and Benadryl didn't reduce the swelling because "we see this all the time, we should just have a pill for this" and "why is it over $200 just to be seen, people just walk into an ER and get care". Like sir, my specialist appointment I just paid for my deductible was $400+ and that was a schedule, routine appointment.
 
I went to the ER for a migraine with worsening and new symptoms. I got full labs, an emergency CT w/ contrast, an MRI, an EKG, and a whole host of fluids and meds. I only paid $75 out of pocket. My explanation of benefits was over $24,000. People have a really horrifically skewed idea of what vet med costs because we are so used to a system subsidized by government and insurance (which is a whole other can of worms to open). I had a guy argue with me on the phone that he didn't want to pay the $205 emergency exam fee when his dog got stung by a bee and Benadryl didn't reduce the swelling because "we see this all the time, we should just have a pill for this" and "why is it over $200 just to be seen, people just walk into an ER and get care". Like sir, my specialist appointment I just paid for my deductible was $400+ and that was a schedule, routine appointment.
The pill being......Benadryl
 
They also have a super hot girlfriend who does modeling. You wouldn't know her, she goes to a different school. In Canada.
Er mah gawd! TT necrobumped a c/o 2015 thread and was taking count of the few oldies left. WTF you’re 2012 right? I think you might be the oldest class geezer
 
Er mah gawd! TT necrobumped a c/o 2015 thread and was taking count of the few oldies left. WTF you’re 2012 right? I think you might be the oldest class geezer

C/o 2010. I prefer being thought of as a secretive centuries old swamp witch 😂

I still browse around here from time to time. Hope everything is well with you 😊
 
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