veterinary neurology

[largle]

im just wondering, is the field of veterinary neurology very well established? i.e. Are there many vet neurologist specialists around and is there much demand for their services? Wat do they typically do/what kinds of cases do they see?

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[No Imagination]

Miss. State recently got (stole) a bunch of Neurologists from (LSU? Auburn? no sure where) - and basically developed the department overnight (forget about the fact that we don't have a cardiologist, oncologist, ophthalmologist... we now have like 10 neurologists running around) and no students that really want to do it - but hey, who needs to learn about treating cancer, cardiac Dz, nictitans gland prolapse; we get to learn how to read an MRI and Dx. brain tumors... 🙁 .

Anyway, rant over: Yes, it's a well established field. Is there a demand? Ergh, I guess it's a supply and demand kind of thing. From my LIMITED experience, vet. neurologists bread and butter seem to be ventral slots, Hemilaminectomy, Dorsal Laminectomy (basically Vertebral disk diseases). But, I also know quite a few surgeons who do these surgeries, and 2 GP's (who do some of them). So, you do NOT have to be a neurologist to do these surgeries (and personally, I know a surgeon who I would rather do it on my dog).

What kind of cases do they see? See above. Also, anything that needs a (brain) MRI, spinal CT, or animal that is showing neurological symptoms.

I know 2 MD neurologists, and I can say that apart from the name, there is very little overlap between MD and veterinary Neurologists.

I hope I helped with your question while with only minimal ranting...

 

[alliecat44]

IMHO, neuro is THE BEST specialty out there. In a nutshell, veterinary neurologists deal with any disorder of the brain, spinal cord, peripheral nerves and muscles. There are a bit over 100 practicing in the US today and each year there are about 5-15 residencies available, which are EXTREMELY competitive.

What does a neurologist do all day? Well, see appointments, localize lesions, develop diagnostic/therapeutic plans. Diagnostic plans can include bloodwork (including titers for infectious diseases and certain autoimmune diseases), MRI (brain, spine), spinal taps/CSF analysis, muscle/nerve biopsies, nerve conduction velocity, electromyography, EEG (rarely)....they also do surgery such as laminectomies for intervertebral disc disease and/or spinal cord tumors, spinal stabilization surgeries for spinal fractures, brain/skull surgeries for tumors and malformations.

 

[nyanko]

I know 2 MD neurologists, and I can say that apart from the name, there is very little overlap between MD and veterinary Neurologists.

Because veterinary neurologists are expected to be competent at both clinical neurology and neurosurgery, unlike in human medicine.

I agree with alliecat for what it's worth. Neuro rules. 😉

edit: NI there really isn't a cardiologist or oncologist or ophthalmologist at Mississippi State? 😱 How common is it for schools to be missing so many specialists? I have a feeling I'm about to get a major dose of being glad I chose to move here and make UCDavis my in-state....

 

[squeegee]

How common is it for schools to be missing so many specialists?

wasn't there a recent thread about someone from Illinois asking for suggested rotations for neuro and another specialty? I was also asked about our cardiology department from a fellow 3rd year at Illinois this summer...I didn't know that there were schools missing specialists until now!

 

[No Imagination]

edit: NI there really isn't a cardiologist or oncologist or ophthalmologist at Mississippi State? 😱 How common is it for schools to be missing so many specialists?

I lot of what I have said about neuro is from me being bitter. Miss. State having a neuro program is brand new as of this year, and because not enough students WANT to do neuro (at least at Miss) - they are taking time away from our Surgery elective and making us work for neuro. I guess that is fine, but when you spend 2+ years at a school, and you are finally going to step into your surgery rotation, and they hit you with "We are taking away 20% of your surgery time because we now have all these neuro cases and no one wants to do them", a lot of us are understandably bitter.

In regards to Miss State and missing specialists... I don't know what to say. I do know we don't have a Cardiologist, oncologist, or ophthalmologist. We kinda have a Dermatologist, but I think she is more of a private practice person who comes to the school every now and again. I may be wrong on that one.

Considering that there are tons of specialties popping up all the time, I am not bothered that Miss. doesn't have all of them... I mean, i doubt all schools have them all (Critical care, behavior, nutrition, avian...)

But the BIG ones, like onco and cardio... come on - I think they are more important then an entire neuro department.

We also don't have a single person who does exotics... the school - a TERTIARY referral institution REFERS exotics to other vets.

I have a feeling I'm about to get a major dose of being glad I chose to move here and make UCDavis my in-state....

I am pretty sure you are right. In another year or so I will let you know how I really feel about Miss. state, but right now - just don't want to make TOO MANY more waves... but Miss. State has not treated me (as a student) well or with any respect.

 

[nyanko]

In regards to Miss State and missing specialists... I don't know what to say. I do know we don't have a Cardiologist, oncologist, or ophthalmologist. We kinda have a Dermatologist, but I think she is more of a private practice person who comes to the school every now and again. I may be wrong on that one.

That really stinks. I agree that cardio and onco at the very least are really important. Do you have onco core courses in your curriculum and who teaches them? I love that ours are taught by oncologists, it makes them a lot more clinically relevant than if they were taught by molecular biologists (not that I have a problem with molecular biologists considering my background - that stuff's a lot more familiar to me than the clinical, haha).

Considering that there are tons of specialties popping up all the time, I am not bothered that Miss. doesn't have all of them... I mean, i doubt all schools have them all (Critical care, behavior, nutrition, avian...)

But the BIG ones, like onco and cardio... come on - I think they are more important then an entire neuro department.

We also don't have a single person who does exotics... the school - a TERTIARY referral institution REFERS exotics to other vets.

Wow, yeah, I mean I knew that stuff like behavior and nutrition were things we had that a lot of other places didn't. I didn't know critical care and exotics/avian were also.

I'm not sure that onco and cardio are MORE important than neuro - they're all under the same umbrella of the ACVIM and I'd consider them all to be of at least equal importance. Our neuro department here brings in more money to the teaching hospital I think than many of the other specialties, so maybe it was that sort of move. Either way, it sucks that they'd make a move like that at what it seems like is the expense of the students.

I am pretty sure you are right. In another year or so I will let you know how I really feel about Miss. state, but right now - just don't want to make TOO MANY more waves... but Miss. State has not treated me (as a student) well or with any respect.

👎

 

[Bill59]

These days most neurologists also do neurosurgery. They treat a lot of disc disease, epilepsy, and encephalitis. They also see brain and spinal tumors, head and spine trauma, malformations, and nerve/muscle disease.

The market for veterinary neurologists is good. Right now there are a number of schools trying to hire a neurologist and there are plenty of private practice openings. They do a lot of expensive procedures such as MRIs and spinal surgery so the earning potential is high. Most general practitioners are more than happy to refer neuro cases.

Although the earning potential is good, neuro is an intense specialty. Most of their patients are pretty sick, some are hard to diagnose and fix and there are a lot of emergencies.

 

[breenie]

I spoke with someone who used to work at Illinois was grumbling that they had a "mass exodus" a few years ago and were having a hard time retaining specialists/faculty. Also their board pass rate has been a little low due to this was my impression?

Dunno how factual vs. gossipy that is.

 

[alliecat44]

Most of their patients are pretty sick, some are hard to diagnose and fix and there are a lot of emergencies.

And all of those are huge 👍👍👍 in my book. 🙂 Those things are what makes neuro fun! Well, that and the incredible logic of neuroanatomy/neurolocalization, the profound difference you can make in an animal's quality of life, and that if you have to euthanize something it's usually for a very good reason.

 

[twelvetigers]

Our emeritus dean is a neurologist, and he just went back into the teaching hospital to see cases again. A section of our phys I was taught by him too. It seems like a fun specialty to me, thus far.

I think he's the only one we have. We have an optho, a cardio, and an onco! Glad to know we have some important bases covered.

 

[laurafinn]

Thank God for neurologists! It's a specialty that as a GP, I find invaluable. There are some types of diseases that I can address well and may refer only rarely (dermatology springs to mind), but when you've got a patient with CNS signs and a client who wants answers, it's great to have access to good neurologists -- they have a depth of knowledge and experience and ready access to advanced imaging that's unmatched by GP's. Not to mention, neurosurgery is so high stakes that it isn't something most GP's would want to do. In short, it would seem to be a good specialty to be in.