Virginia Mason

[Shanopy]

Does anyone know anything about this program? I applied on a whim and got an interview, but I don't know much about the program and I already have 10+ interviews at university programs. Virginia Mason is the only non-university affiliated program I applied to, and I am not sure if I want to move to Seattle.

Before I either waste money interviewing there (flight aint' cheap from where I live) or regret turning down an invite, could someone please give me two cents?

Thanks.

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[dry dre]

could someone please give me two cents?
Thanks.

I know very little about VM, but can say this. It's generally considered the #2 of 3 programs in Seattle (UofW above, Swedish below).

A friend interviewed there last year; part of the interview process was in the OR doing a case. I don't know if the OR time was the interview, or just something they usually do on interview day.

I understand it to be a good solid program (just rumor, YMMV). Given that UofWashington is in the neighborhood, a lot of the interesting stuff probably bypasses VM (relatively speaking). I understand that they do work hard (i.e. bad for lifestyle, good for training).

 

[Pilot Doc]

I interviewed there last year and first, the "interview" is unlike any other. You come any day you please and simply join a team for the day, doing whatever they do - rounds, conference, OR (scrubbed), etc. A unique experience.

Second, I was impressed with VM. It's a hybrid community/university program, probably similar to Carolinas Medical Center. It's a big private hospital without a medical school, but it has a broad range of residencies and employed teaching faculty. Though the conventional wisdom has it 2nd to UW, I favor VM for the following reasons.

1) Great location near downtown seattle in a nice neighborhood where you can live walking distance to work and all the amenities.
2) Most training is in one hospital, with some time at the (nearby) harborview trauma center. UW residents go to multiple hospitals all over Seattle - not my idea of fun
3) General benefits of a community hospital - earlier OR, better staff/less scut, OR experience more focused on residents doing bread and butter cases rather than watching attendings operate on zebras.

I don't know about the case mix at UW vs. VM. My suspicion is that except for the really oddball stuff (more than just whipples), VM get's it share of pathology. I bet the difference is just insurance status.

That having been said, it doesn't sound like you're interested in 1) Seattle or 2) a non-university program. You and the person you will displace from the interview schedule would be better served turning the interview down.

 

[blindsurgeon]

As a person who wanted desperately to get into a Seattle or a Portland program, and was rejected by all four, I heartily agree with that last bit of advice.

Congratulations, though,

BlindSurgeon

 

[s204367]

About VM. It too was the only non-university affiliated program i interviewed at. Spent the day with Dr. Raker, and loved it. I ended up matching at OHSU. I had done a month at both UW and OHSU, and just thought UW was a little more malignant( this was back inthe time of q2, with some 60hr shifts). Anyway, my 2 cents are that you will probably get much better surgical training at a place like VM. A former roommate of mine is a chief there now...Moraca. Heading into cardiac i think.
I ended up leaving OHSU for a few reasons..biggest of which was that my dad was on the east coast and had an MI. In addition my GF matched optho in NYC.
Here at Columbia, most of the interns have done zero central lines, and it is almost december...they seem to be a third year case here. None have done any chest tubes. None have done any lap choles, and I am not sure any 2nd year residents have either. The interns spend most of their days discharging, drawing labs, escorting patients to x-ray, CT scan, and interventional programs. Fellowships are now relatively easy to match into after GS( with the exception of plastics). You can walk into any CT or vascular fellowship from pretty much anywhere. There are even 2 peds fellows at columbia now from relatively **** programs. I would advise to resist the big name, and go to a program where you will really operate. There is a huge hepatobiliary surgeon at VM Traverso i think...
My advice..if you want to be in the northwest, if you want to learn how to operate, go to VM.
In regards to the above post....At aplace like VM you don't compete for interviews....if you look good on paper, you will get an interview. if you are not so strong......you would have never gotten the interview..VM has been know to be quite selective...so don't discourage......consider OHSU..20 categoricals/year. they always lose at least one resident, and seem to take a prelim each time from their own program

 

[s204367]

10 categoricals/yr at OHSU...roughly 20 counting prelims

 

[Shanopy]

I decided to forego my interview at U of KY to fit in VMMC. I must say I am pretty intrigued, since I've heard nothing but praises about VMMC so far. 🙂 But if I change my mind, I promise will promptly cancel.

I did a sub-internship at one of the big name places, and the interns rarely got to see the OR. The technical competency of the upper level residents weren't impressive either, although I was impressed by their patient management skills on the floor. The interns there told me that being exposed to the OR early on actually is not a good thing, since you can pick up many bad habits that may not be easily corrected. Furthermore, they seem to think that the surgical skills that actually matter to your career are obtained during a fellowship. Do you guys agree or disagree?

 

[Clancy_Clark]

Virginia Mason is a solid program. You will learn how to operate early. You will see and do amazing cases. Someone mentioned that the University of Washington likely steals all the good cases. First VM surgeons frequently operate on UW faculty/professors. Just looking at the numbers. VM does more pancreatic resections than the UW. Look at the Leapfrog data (http://www.leapfroggroup.org). VM is not too shabby in other areas. Several examples...As a R1, I saw 6 whipples in a 2 week period, 2 pheos in a 2 week period, and then 10 parathyroids in one month. VM has little or no trauma, but the VM residents benefit by spending 7 months over the first 3 years at Harborview, the trauma hospital in Seattle. Your pediatric months are spent at Children's Hospital in Seattle just like the UW residents. Can you get fellowships after VM? Yes, 3 of our 4 chiefs are going into fellowships (cardiothoracic, endocrine, and trauma). What about research? All of the attendings publish and encourage residents to submit papers. Between the R2/R3 year one of the 4 categoricals spends a year or two in the lab. I believe VM is a rare, unique training opportunity. You benefit from one-on-one teaching from the attendings, no upper level residents saying "well I think this is the way you do it". You avoid the bull of an academic university based program. Hours are long but worth it. I believe it is the best program in the NW.

 

[navysurgeon]

I did my surgery residency at the UW in Seattle. I thought the VM residents I came in contact with were very solid and good folks. There are some serious sugical stars at VM (Traverso) and they see some great pathology, especially as senior residents. I'd go to an interview there, if one wwas offered...

 

[avgjoe]

so in general it looks like everyone agrees that one doesn't have to go to the big name to get a good fellowship? And after that, is it the fellowship that matters for job offers, academic positions, etc? Kind of like how undergrad doesn't matter anymore after you get into a good med school?