Walking Away

[medicinesux]

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no, not me. At least not yet.

But came across this story about a corporate lawyer making six figures turning it all in for the life of a full time beach bum


http://www.bankersball.com/2007/07/02/interview-leaving-biglaw/


Lucky bastard!

 

[dragonfly99]

sounds fun

But don't ditch medicine at least until you finish residency. I'm sure medicine actually is more fun when you don't have all these people breathing down your neck, have some say in your workplace and make more $. Definitely being a fellow is better than being a resident...

This guy's life as a lawyer sounded pretty painful...moral of the story is you don't want to end up doing something you think is pointless, if you are a thinking person.

 

[maceo]

great interview. That guy seems to understand what life is about. I like the part where he says people tolerate corporate lawyers rather than value them .. just like in anesthesia.. the surgeon tolerates anesthesia rather than values them. that is most surgeons not al.

 

[medicinesux]

sounds fun

But don't ditch medicine at least until you finish residency. I'm sure medicine actually is more fun when you don't have all these people breathing down your neck, have some say in your workplace and make more $. Definitely being a fellow is better than being a resident...

This guy's life as a lawyer sounded pretty painful...moral of the story is you don't want to end up doing something you think is pointless, if you are a thinking person.

Yeah, I keep telling myself that everyday. Just 8.5 months to go here but I find with each passing day my desire to walk away only grows stronger and stronger as my observations about all that sucks about medicine in this country is only further and further extended and reaffirmed. You would think it would get harder to want to leave but for me it is the other way around. How twisted is that? At this rate, I am afraid by next June someone is going to have to physically wheelbarrow me down the street and dump me in front of the hospital in order to get me to June 30, 2009.

 

[dragonfly99]

you sound depressed

even your screen name is depressing

If you aren't enjoying your job, try to find as many things outside work as possible that you enjoy. It might make it easier to work hard, and work well, when you ARE at work. Sounds paradoxical but it can be true. Also, making more nonmedical friends (i.e. nondoctors) in your city can be helpful, at least I thought so. That way every social event doesn't degenerate into kvetching about the hospital...

 

[BlondeDocteur]

As someone nearly married to one corporate lawyer and friends with scores of others here in New York, trust me that no one would ever do that job if it didn't pay what it did. No one is intrinsically motivated by the thought of helping big corporations sue each other, buy each other, chop each other up, etc.

As imperfect a creature as it is, medicine is still different, in a good way.

 

[medicinesux]

you sound depressed

even your screen name is depressing

If you aren't enjoying your job, try to find as many things outside work as possible that you enjoy. It might make it easier to work hard, and work well, when you ARE at work. Sounds paradoxical but it can be true. Also, making more nonmedical friends (i.e. nondoctors) in your city can be helpful, at least I thought so. That way every social event doesn't degenerate into kvetching about the hospital...

I wouldn't say I am a depressed person, far from it. In fact, I believe we live in an amazing world with so many incredible opportunities and it depresses me to think I am missing out on so much being married to healthcare. A marriage gone terribly bad and I want a divorce. In fact, I believe this "funk" I am in is entirely environmentally induced. How do I know this? In between switching specialties, I had a year off where I had taken a job in a very different career- one in which I always yearned to try. I didn't do "research" nor did I do a prelim year so I wouldn't lose my skills as some recommended. What the **** is that anyway???? I had this time away and I was going to make the most of it. Let's just say I felt like a caged bird released into the wild. A year out of medicine reminded me how good life could be when you had time to embrace it. I had an incredible year- more than I would've ever expected. I LOVED waking up every morning and going to work- imagine that? In fact, it didn't even feel like work at all. I felt respected, appreciated, and actually felt like I was making a difference in the lives of others. My stress level went from like an 11 down to a 1. The hours were to die for- 35-40 hr weeks, no weekends ever, no call (huh? what is that?), no pager going off in the middle of the night, no getting stuck to god knows when each and every day, no dreading monday mornings anymore, no fear of getting sued, no "I am mightier than God" attitudes or malignant personalities to contend with, oh and i could call in sick without feeling like I committed murder. I could go and on. My very best day as a resident didn't even come close to my very worst day that whole year. And that is the God honest truth.
Maybe that is why I am having such a hard time. There are others who want out of medicine but don't have the courage to do it or simply don't know what else they would want to do so they just stick it out and go through the motions. But I know exactly what I would do. I find myself constantly comparing my life now to what it was like then. We have all heard of the saying that the "grass isn't always greener on the other side". I sometimes think people say that just to make themselves feel better over their current dire situation. But let me tell you, the grass WAS truly greener on the other side- as green as the greenest grass in all of Ireland. I hope to return one day.

 

[uclabruins47]

I wouldn't say I am a depressed person, far from it. In fact, I believe we live in an amazing world with so many incredible opportunities and it depresses me to think I am missing out on so much being married to healthcare. A marriage gone terribly bad and I want a divorce. In fact, I believe this "funk" I am in is entirely environmentally induced. How do I know this? In between switching specialties, I had a year off where I had taken a job in a very different career- one in which I always yearned to try. I didn't do "research" nor did I do a prelim year so I wouldn't loose my skills as some recommended. What the **** is that anyway???? I had this time away and I was going to make the most of it. Let's just say I felt like a caged bird released into the wild. A year out of medicine reminded me how good life could be when you had time to embrace it. I had an incredible year- more than I would've ever expected. I LOVED waking up every morning and going to work- imagine that? In fact, it didn't even feel like work at all. I felt respected, appreciated, and actually felt like I was making a difference in the lives of others. My stress level went from like an 11 down to a 1. The hours were to die for- 35-40 hr weeks, no weekends ever, no call (huh? what is that?), no pager going off in the middle of the night, no getting stuck to god knows when each and every day, no dreading monday mornings anymore, no fear of getting sued, no "I am mightier than God" attitudes or malignant personalities to contend with, oh and i could call in sick without feeling like I committed murder. I could go and on. My very best day as a resident didn't even come close to my very worst day that whole year. And that is the God honest truth.
Maybe that is why I am having such a hard time. There are others who want out of medicine but don't have the courage to do it or simply don't know what else they would want to do so they just stick it out and go through the motions. But I know exactly what I would do. I find myself constantly comparing my life now to what it was like then. We have all heard of the saying that the "grass isn't always greener on the other side". I sometimes think people say that just to make themselves feel better over their current dire situation. But let me tell you, the grass WAS truly greener on the other side- as green as the greenest grass in all of Ireland. I hope to return one day.

great minds think alike. too bad i still have 1.5 years to go. f***. if i had no debt i would've been out of this mess long time ago.

 

[BlondeDocteur]

Why did you go back? Why switch medical specialties-- why not stay in the field you loved during your year off?

 

[dragonfly99]

Well, Medicinesux,
I think you have good reasons for quitting medicine.
I think if you have a comparable job you can do, and pay back your loans, then you could just quit now. I have a conservative personality so I generally would say to someone that they should finish residency and perhaps get their license first, so they don't burn any bridges. But it doesn't sound like you want to do medicine at all - any kind of medicine. And that's fine.

By the way, environmental depression is real. I wasn't saying you would be depressed with our without being a resident - I just said you sound depressed. I personally think I was depressed when I was a resident, so it's not some insult. I do think that things get better as you go up the food chain - less people bothering you, you get more respect from nurses, etc. BUT if you don't like doing medicine whatsoever, that won't make things that much better.

To play devil's advocate once more, if you are a 2nd or 3rd year resident in fp or IM, for example, if you finish residency you could work part time (like in an urgent care or whatever) and make OK money, even if/when you decide to enter some other career.

 

[medicinesux]

To answer the above questions....I had already matched at my current specialty when I had taken that job (I will refrain from getting too specific in fear of outing myself which I rather not do at this time). Looking back and knowing what I know now, I probably would've never gone through the match and happily stayed in that job. It killed me inside knowing I would have to give it up and return to the hells of residency. But I thought maybe I should give it one more go and things might be better in a different specialty and I had already matched and committed...wrong!..it was pretty much the same medicine bullcrap in the same broken american healthcare system but just in a different form.
So why not just quit now? Well the loans don't go away. When you have 6 figures of school loans, you really don't want to commit financial suicide. Sometimes I wonder if school tuitions are jacked up so high so people wouldn't be dropping out like dead flies along the way? If I was going into primary care and was only going to make 150K a year, I would quit in a heartbeat (even with the debt)- no a lot faster than that- make it a nanosecond. However, I am 8 months shy of finishing residency in my current specialty which pays a bit more than that enabling me to escape a lot sooner to my freedom. I have learned that money does not buy happiness, it can actually complicate one's life more. It can be like a drug where people are willing to sign their lives away for it. I have learned that my mental well being and happiness is worth more than a measly 150K a year. I'd rather work job 😀 😍👍 and make 100K a year than work job 😴😡:cry: and make 150K a year. But because of the debt AND the fact that I am NOT going into primary care, it makes leaving for me a very tantalizing decision.

 

[sirus_virus]

To answer the above questions....I had already matched at my current specialty when I had taken that job (I will refrain from getting too specific in fear of outing myself which I rather not do at this time). Looking back and knowing what I know now, I probably would've never gone through the match and happily stayed in that job. It killed me inside knowing I would have to give it up and return to the hells of residency. But I thought maybe I should give it one more go and things might be better in a different specialty and I had already matched and committed...wrong!..it was pretty much the same medicine bullcrap in the same broken american healthcare system but just in a different form.
So why not just quit now? Well the loans don't go away. When you have 6 figures of school loans, you really don't want to commit financial suicide. Sometimes I wonder if school tuitions are jacked up so high so people wouldn't be dropping out like dead flies along the way? If I was going into primary care and was only going to make 150K a year, I would quit in a heartbeat (even with the debt)- no a lot faster than that- make it a nanosecond. However, I am 8 months shy of finishing residency in my current specialty which pays a bit more than that enabling me to escape a lot sooner to my freedom. I have learned that money does not buy happiness, it can actually complicate one's life more. It can be like a drug where people are willing to sign their lives away for it. I have learned that my mental well being and happiness is worth more than a measly 150K a year. I'd rather work job 😀 😍👍 and make 100K a year than work job 😴😡:cry: and make 150K a year. But because of the debt AND the fact that I am NOT going into primary care, it makes leaving for me a very tantalizing decision.

Kinda hard to break up with a girl with huge tits, especialy if you are big on tities. Maybe you ought to make a decision without staring at her chest, your happiness is worth more.

 

[dr0277341283141]

medicinesux, i grok in fullness.

 

[ghost dog]

Kinda hard to break up with a girl with huge tits, especialy if you are big on tities. Maybe you ought to make a decision without staring at her chest, your happiness is worth more.

Medicinesux,

Have you ever thought about practicing in Canada after finishing residency? It might be tough to transfer from the American to Canadian system, but Canadian healthcare is significantly different in it's approach to patient care. You may find it more satisfying, and with less malignant personalities (or that may be just the residency experience! everyone has to do it). There will certainly be LESS LAWSUITS, and your malpractice premiums will be DRAMATICALLY LOWER. You won't have to deal with insurance companies dictating what procedures / consults, etc are covered in that the government pays for everything. Another huge advantage is that all of your billings go through one entity: the provincial government. Due to this fact, your billings are rarely (if ever) rejected. I would like to see an American physician make that claim! Due to the nature of the above set-up, you don't have to hire personnel dedicated solely to "track down" patients who fail to pay their bills, or to harass insurance companies who repeatedly reject billings. I can't imagine the headaches that would result from this.

However, if you are in an "ultra-high" paying specialty like neurosurgery or ortho, the income may be significantly less if you where to practice in Canada.

I am a family doctor who practices family medicine and chronic pain in Ontario, Canada . I will be on track for billing approximately $420,000 this year , with 17 % overhead. Given, I am in an unusual situation. However, one of my family medicine friends who solely practices family medicine billed $390,000 (with 30% overhead) last year. He told me this figure was about average for his family practice group (of 20 doctors). Neither he or myself work "insane hours"; I work 25-30 hours per week, and he puts in 45-50 hour weeks (1 weekend walk in shift per month). I take home / phone call once per year, as I am in a HUGE call group (about 280 doctors).

Medicinesux,

Don't let residency colour your picture of what practicing medicine is actually like; when you (finally) finish, it will be a different ballgame altogether.

If you can, come over to Canada. We'd love to have you!

GD.

 

[jettavr6]

Kinda hard to break up with a girl with huge tits, especialy if you are big on tities. Maybe you ought to make a decision without staring at her chest, your happiness is worth more.

Well stated!

 

[galactica2001]

I wouldn't say I am a depressed person, far from it. In fact, I believe we live in an amazing world with so many incredible opportunities and it depresses me to think I am missing out on so much being married to healthcare. A marriage gone terribly bad and I want a divorce. In fact, I believe this "funk" I am in is entirely environmentally induced. How do I know this? In between switching specialties, I had a year off where I had taken a job in a very different career- one in which I always yearned to try. I didn't do "research" nor did I do a prelim year so I wouldn't loose my skills as some recommended. What the **** is that anyway???? I had this time away and I was going to make the most of it. Let's just say I felt like a caged bird released into the wild. A year out of medicine reminded me how good life could be when you had time to embrace it. I had an incredible year- more than I would've ever expected. I LOVED waking up every morning and going to work- imagine that? In fact, it didn't even feel like work at all. I felt respected, appreciated, and actually felt like I was making a difference in the lives of others. My stress level went from like an 11 down to a 1. The hours were to die for- 35-40 hr weeks, no weekends ever, no call (huh? what is that?), no pager going off in the middle of the night, no getting stuck to god knows when each and every day, no dreading monday mornings anymore, no fear of getting sued, no "I am mightier than God" attitudes or malignant personalities to contend with, oh and i could call in sick without feeling like I committed murder. I could go and on. My very best day as a resident didn't even come close to my very worst day that whole year. And that is the God honest truth.
Maybe that is why I am having such a hard time. There are others who want out of medicine but don't have the courage to do it or simply don't know what else they would want to do so they just stick it out and go through the motions. But I know exactly what I would do. I find myself constantly comparing my life now to what it was like then. We have all heard of the saying that the "grass isn't always greener on the other side". I sometimes think people say that just to make themselves feel better over their current dire situation. But let me tell you, the grass WAS truly greener on the other side- as green as the greenest grass in all of Ireland. I hope to return one day.

that's EXACTLY how I feel (I've actually done research as my job before starting internship). It's like hitting the rock bottom - working all the time, having a disturbed biorythm

 

[KidDr]

Medicinesux,

Have you ever thought about practicing in Canada after finishing residency? It might be tough to transfer from the American to Canadian system, but Canadian healthcare is significantly different in it's approach to patient care. You may find it more satisfying, and with less malignant personalities (or that may be just the residency experience! everyone has to do it). There will certainly be LESS LAWSUITS, and your malpractice premiums will be DRAMATICALLY LOWER. You won't have to deal with insurance companies dictating what procedures / consults, etc are covered in that the government pays for everything. Another huge advantage is that all of your billings go through one entity: the provincial government. Due to this fact, your billings are rarely (if ever) rejected. I would like to see an American physician make that claim! Due to the nature of the above set-up, you don't have to hire personnel dedicated solely to "track down" patients who fail to pay their bills, or to harass insurance companies who repeatedly reject billings. I can't imagine the headaches that would result from this.

However, if you are in an "ultra-high" paying specialty like neurosurgery or ortho, the income may be significantly less if you where to practice in Canada.

I am a family doctor who practices family medicine and chronic pain in Ontario, Canada . I will be on track for billing approximately $420,000 this year , with 17 % overhead. Given, I am in an unusual situation. However, one of my family medicine friends who solely practices family medicine billed $390,000 (with 30% overhead) last year. He told me this figure was about average for his family practice group (of 20 doctors). Neither he or myself work "insane hours"; I work 25-30 hours per week, and he puts in 45-50 hour weeks (1 weekend walk in shift per month). I take home / phone call once per year, as I am in a HUGE call group (about 280 doctors).

Medicinesux,

Don't let residency colour your picture of what practicing medicine is actually like; when you (finally) finish, it will be a different ballgame altogether.

If you can, come over to Canada. We'd love to have you!

GD.

this sounds pretty sweet!

 

[CambieMD]

you sound depressed

even your screen name is depressing

If you aren't enjoying your job, try to find as many things outside work as possible that you enjoy. It might make it easier to work hard, and work well, when you ARE at work. Sounds paradoxical but it can be true. Also, making more nonmedical friends (i.e. nondoctors) in your city can be helpful, at least I thought so. That way every social event doesn't degenerate into kvetching about the hospital...

That is good advice. There is no dream job. I use to hate medicine. I was always trying to sneak out of the hospital.
As a med student I did the bare minimum. I hated medicine. It wasn't until I started working hard and devloped empathy that I started to really enjoy medicine.

The strangest thing that happened was I actully discovered that I was good @ something in medicine.

Give medicine a chance and change your depressing screen name.

Cambie

 

[jabramsface]

Medicinesux,

less if you where to practice in Canada.

I am a family doctor who practices family medicine and chronic pain in Ontario, Canada . I will be on track for billing approximately $420,000 this year , with 17 % overhead. Given, I am in an unusual situation.
Medicinesux,




GD.

I'm Canadian.

I'm applying through CaRMS but will likely not match, due to the competitive nature of my preferred specialty, as well as the fact that I am an average applicant.

Thusly, I will probably end up in family medicine. I don't want to practice classic family medicine however. I would lose my mind.

But then I read your post about chronic pain management and $420k. I've not heard of any family doctor pulling in that much.

If I were pulling in $420k a year, I'd be far happier with a career choice that I did not initially want. Doing FM as a backup for 150k would make me irritable and a poor physician.

So, the way I see it is that if I'm not going to do what I love, I might as well be paid well so that I can love the time I'm not at my job - face it, money buys opportunities to enjoy life.

So, how did you get to where you are at? And why is your situation unusual(besides the fact that you are pulling in far more than most specialists)?