WAMC 22 M 4.0 GPA 518 MCAT; No Research

[HotBoot]

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I'm going to be applying this upcoming cycle and wanted some review of my upcoming application.

VA Resident, ORM

GPA/MCAT: 4.0/518

Clinical: 1k hours as a scribe (2.5 years). Will be starting a new clinical job around the time of application with more hands on patient experience

Non-clinical: 200 hours (1 activity of 100 hours over a year)

Shadowing: 70 hours (Pulm 40 hours, ENT 10 hours, Primary care 5 hours, GI 10 hours, Peds 5 hours)

Research: None

LOR: 1 physician (should be good), 3 professors (likely average)

Leadership: Training a new scribe

Writing: I've been told that my PS is good but not special.

Obviously I have to perfect my school list, however I wanted to some feedback on how my application is looking and whether I have a good shot this upcoming cycle. Obviously I don't have research, but I am slightly concerned that 200 non-clinical hours isn't enough. Of these one is about 100, while the rest come from 3 activities ranging from 30-60 hours, although I do feel I can talk about them fairly well.

Tentative School List from Admit.org:

Reach: UVA, Emory, Colorado, Cincinnati, Iowa, USF

Target: VCU, EVMS, Pitt, NOVA, Albert Einstein, Dartmouth, Tufts, Miami, Tulane

Baseline: Virginia Tech, Temple, Drexel, Western Michigan, Rosalind Franklin, Penn State, Wake Forest

I will also likely add some DO schools.

 

[phantasmo]

lgtm just make sure to add even more to target. you need to apply to many bc of yield protection risks.

your app is very high risk for "slip through cracks". high stat enough to where mid tiers/low tiers think you'll get t20-30 offers, but 0 research so that t20-30 wouldn't want.

you're in a unique case here where, if you can afford it, it's very worth it to apply to 50-60 schools imo. much lower cost than the risk of reapping and losing a year

 

[Faha]

What are the hours and activities for your non clinical volunteering?

 

[HotBoot]

your app is very high risk for "slip through cracks". high stat enough to where mid tiers/low tiers think you'll get t20-30 offers, but 0 research so that t20-30 wouldn't want.

This was part of my concern, although I wasn't sure how much of the yield protection story is actually true.

 

[HotBoot]

What are the hours and activities for your non clinical volunteering?

100 hours Ronald McDonald (>1 Year)
50 hours Habitat for Humanity
60 hours of hospital volunteering I wouldn't consider to be clinical (Mostly wayfinding and administrative tasks)
An additional 30 hours of hospital volunteering that I'm a bit torn about. I think it would classify as clinical, as I was interacting with patients in a more medical setting, however I may classify it as non-clinical.

 

[phantasmo]

This was part of my concern, although I wasn't sure how much of the yield protection story is actually true.

its very true.

you're ORM 518 with no research and it looks like no narrative.

that's a sitting duck to get shafted. really learn how to craft a narrative asap, and build that in the essay. fake it if you need to.

bc at the moment, all the t20's are going to take 520+ god narrative ORM's and 505-515 URM over you. so your goal is to snipe a t21-40 or so to contribute your stats (because you're certainly not contributing a grand mission to them)

you got this though I believe in you

edit to add: i would really shoot very hard for uva. connect with them, go to sessions, express insane interest. that's realistically your ceiling. the VA resident would help a lot.

 

[Faha]

I suggest these schools with your GPA 0f 4.0 and MCAT of 518 with no research:
UVA
Virginia Tech
Virginia Commonwealth
Eastern Virginia
West Virginia
George Washington
Wake Forest
NOVA MD
USF Morsani
Miami
Tulane
TCU
Rosalind Franklin
Iowa
Medical College Wisconsin
Western Michigan
Oakland Beaumont
Colorado
Drexel
Temple
Jefferson
Penn State
Pittsburgh
Hackensack
Hofstra
New York Medical College
Albany
Rochester
Vermont
Quinnipiac
Tufts

 

[Mr.Smile12]

My opinion is not as dire. If you don't have research, it's not the end of the world, but it would be hard to know why you would thrive at schools where a scholar year is available. If research interests you, find a program with a strong support system for student research. That said, most applicants have research, but that's also because a lot of students push for a graduation thesis or do postbac research.

I do agree that your nonclinical community service just touches the threshold for not getting screened out at most schools. However, if anyone were to yield protect you, having low community service/service orientation is a good reason to screen you out, especially compared to other applicants. Many of the yield protection schools like service, and they also have past history. So unless you have a strong mission fit, you're going to be on the chopping block.

I will agree that among the schools in your state, UVA should go for someone with your metrics who is in-state. I do not believe in-state programs yield protect, but they can exclude based on mission fit. You should still apply to all of your in-state options, including VCOM DO.

I don't think creating a narrative is as easy as selecting one from a deck of cards (or a chatbot). We also aren't talking about just the personal essay; it's got to be apparent in all of your materials, including your letters which you don't write or control. If you cannot see your vision as a physician, you won't be able to convince a stranger on an adcom.

Take a look at Faha's list, and start doing your research on how each one can satisfy your expectations to be the doctor you want to become (not counting any path towards a specialty unless it's important like a 3-year track to primary care).

 

[HotBoot]

My opinion is not as dire. If you don't have research, it's not the end of the world, but it would be hard to know why you would thrive at schools where a scholar year is available. If research interests you, find a program with a strong support system for student research. That said, most applicants have research, but that's also because a lot of students push for a graduation thesis or do postbac research.

I do agree that your nonclinical community service just touches the threshold for not getting screened out at most schools. However, if anyone were to yield protect you, having low community service/service orientation is a good reason to screen you out, especially compared to other applicants. Many of the yield protection schools like service, and they also have past history. So unless you have a strong mission fit, you're going to be on the chopping block.

I will agree that among the schools in your state, UVA should go for someone with your metrics who is in-state. I do not believe in-state programs yield protect, but they can exclude based on mission fit. You should still apply to all of your in-state options, including VCOM DO.

I don't think creating a narrative is as easy as selecting one from a deck of cards (or a chatbot). We also aren't talking about just the personal essay; it's got to be apparent in all of your materials, including your letters which you don't write or control. If you cannot see your vision as a physician, you won't be able to convince a stranger on an adcom.

Take a look at Faha's list, and start doing your research on how each one can satisfy your expectations to be the doctor you want to become (not counting any path towards a specialty unless it's important like a 3-year track to primary care).

Thank you for your response. One of my concerns was that my community service hours would be too low, especially considering my lack of research. Out of curiosity, what would you consider to be an adequate number of non-clinical hours. You mentioned that I should have to not get screened out, but how much would you consider to be a good amount? One of my regrets coming into this cycle is not getting more involved in the community and getting more volunteer hours.

This may be a hard question for you to answer, but how confident should I be this cycle?

 

[HotBoot]

its very true.

you're ORM 518 with no research and it looks like no narrative.

that's a sitting duck to get shafted. really learn how to craft a narrative asap, and build that in the essay. fake it if you need to.

bc at the moment, all the t20's are going to take 520+ god narrative ORM's and 505-515 URM over you. so your goal is to snipe a t21-40 or so to contribute your stats (because you're certainly not contributing a grand mission to them)

you got this though I believe in you

edit to add: i would really shoot very hard for uva. connect with them, go to sessions, express insane interest. that's realistically your ceiling. the VA resident would help a lot.

Quick question. How would you go about crafting a narrative and what does that actually entail. For example, part of the reason I volunteered at the Ronald McDonald House and Habitat for Humanity is that I have an interest in housing inequality and non-medicine determinants of health. Obviously as Mr.Smile mentioned crafting a narrative goes above a couple of essays, however would touching on that interest in my activities and personal statement help form that narrative. One of the Doctors I worked with as a scribe, for example, created a program focused on addressing these social determinants. Would it be beneficial to touch on that and the impact it had on me, even though I wasn't necessarily personally involved?

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Quick question. How would you go about crafting a narrative and what does that actually entail. For example, part of the reason I volunteered at the Ronald McDonald House and Habitat for Humanity is that I have an interest in housing inequality and non-medicine determinants of health. Obviously as Mr.Smile mentioned crafting a narrative goes above a couple of essays, however would touching on that interest in my activities and personal statement help form that narrative. One of the Doctors I worked with as a scribe, for example, created a program focused on addressing these social determinants. Would it be beneficial to touch on that and the impact it had on me, even though I wasn't necessarily personally involved?

You can't say you are a star baker if you've only baked one cake. Your passion for a topic is shown by the number of hours spent engaged in the topic. That is true of employment and in demonstrating your purpose.

Finding Your Purpose as a Health Professional - SDN

The Student Doctor Network provides free tools, resources, and advising services to help students become health professionals.

www.studentdoctor.net

In many posts we have advised 150-200 hours of service orientation activities (food distribution, shelter volunteer, job/tax preparation, legal support, transportation services, or housing rehabilitation) when you submit your application to avoid getting screened out at most schools. You should have 250 minimum for recognizable brand-name schools to keep pace with your peers. Tutoring/teaching/mentoring are academic competencies and don't count because every prehealth applicant has some experience especially with underserved students and communities (so it won't help you stand out).

Rule of thumb: 50 hours is 1 hour every week for a year. 50 hours hardly makes one an expert on a topic. Arguably, it takes 10K hours, but that's what medical school and residency is for.

 

[HotBoot]

You can't say you are a star baker if you've only baked one cake. Your passion for a topic is shown by the number of hours spent engaged in the topic. That is true of employment and in demonstrating your purpose.

Finding Your Purpose as a Health Professional - SDN

The Student Doctor Network provides free tools, resources, and advising services to help students become health professionals.

www.studentdoctor.net

In many posts we have advised 150-200 hours of service orientation activities (food distribution, shelter volunteer, job/tax preparation, legal support, transportation services, or housing rehabilitation) when you submit your application to avoid getting screened out at most schools. You should have 250 minimum for recognizable brand-name schools to keep pace with your peers. Tutoring/teaching/mentoring are academic competencies and don't count because every prehealth applicant has some experience especially with underserved students and communities (so it won't help you stand out).

Rule of thumb: 50 hours is 1 hour every week for a year. 50 hours hardly makes one an expert on a topic. Arguably, it takes 10K hours, but that's what medical school and residency is for.

One last question that just dawned on me while speaking with you is regarding my time volunteering in the hospital. The most memorable moments from volunteering at the hospital for me would be delivering gifts and flowers to mothers and kids and speaking to patients. I wouldn't consider these hours (~90 in total) to be clinical, however I'm not sure that they necessarily fit into the community service bucket either. How would these hours be viewed by reviewers and is the best way to maximize them by drawing on those experiences with patients?

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

One last question that just dawned on me while speaking with you is regarding my time volunteering in the hospital. The most memorable moments from volunteering at the hospital for me would be delivering gifts and flowers to mothers and kids and speaking to patients. I wouldn't consider these hours (~90 in total) to be clinical, however I'm not sure that they necessarily fit into the community service bucket either. How would these hours be viewed by reviewers and is the best way to maximize them by drawing on those experiences with patients?

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.

I think the argument is stronger for clinical volunteering than non-clinical. Your efforts help patients feel more comfortable and indirectly help them cope with a very stressful environment (i.e., the hospital). It's not the same as a retail transaction, though I know we can split hairs and details.

Taking people back into the time machine, remember "candy stripers"? It sounds like you are doing very similar tasks without the uniform.

Candy Stripers: A Journey of Hospital Volunteers in United States

Find Out About Candy Stripers, A Journey of Hospital Volunteers in United States

www.volunteerfdip.org