MD WAMC 3.9 516 CA ORM

[bayboyo]

PLEASE DO NOT QUOTE
I will edit the post afterward to remove identifying information while keeping it informative for lurkers coming later. If it gets quoted I will probably delete my account following this cycle since I would prefer not to make future posts under an account I can be easily identified through. Thanks in advance.​

1. cGPA and sGPA as calculated by AMCAS or AACOMAS
   Haven't plugged it into AMCAS but based on a sheet I've made, I have a 3.9 cGPA and 3.89 ~3.9 sGPA. I am doing an integrated master's and got a B in a class last semester which has diminished my "upward trend" since then but it wasn't a BCPM class so thankfully my sGPA was spared.
   
   I am applying traditionally so my GPA is technically not set in stone, but since I’m now taking almost entirely graduate-level classes for my senior year my undergraduate GPA effectively is.
   
   Edit: AMCAS verified GPA was 3.91 for both BCPM and regular.
   
   
2. MCAT score(s) and breakdown
   516 (130/126/130/130)
   
   
3. State of residence or country of citizenship (if non-US)
   California resident, school is in Ohio
   
   
4. Ethnicity and/or race
   South Asian
   
   
5. Undergraduate institution or category
   Small private university (Top 100 on USNews)
   
   
6. Clinical experience (volunteer and non-volunteer)
   70 Hours Volunteering in a Hospital back home (continuing service from high school but not counting the 250+ hours from back then)
   25-30 Hours Volunteering at COVID-19 Vaccine Clinics set up for high-risk individuals living in the community surrounding the university
   150 Hours Volunteering in Emergency Department at a Hospital near campus
   300 Hours Volunteering with the Crisis Text Line
   50 Hours Hospice
   The last two I will be continuing going forward into the cycle to get more stories to draw upon (all are volunteer)
   
   
7. Research experience and productivity
   On two papers, neither of which will likely be published by the time I apply. One review paper and another experiment paper. I have 1500+ hours of basic science research and will be continuing that this summer
   
   
8. Shadowing experience and specialties represented
   ~80 hours distributed among cardiology, neurosurgery, primary care, and pediatrics
   
   
9. Non-clinical volunteering
   Don't have a lot of this, did some volunteering through an organization for civic engagement on campus (such as helping out with the vaccine clinic), but most of my volunteering hours are clinical. I was going to count Crisis Text Line for this but I realized that it was more clinical. I probably have a total of 50 hours if I had to guess in non-clinical volunteering.
   
   Note: On my application, I ended up putting Crisis Text Line here because I didn't want to be missing non-clinical volunteering on my application (edited after thread replies).
10. Other extracurricular activities (including athletics, military service, gap year activities, leadership, teaching, etc)
    Student Government for my Class for all four years where I plan and run annual tradition events for the school including homecoming, a schoolwide formal dance, and other events
    President of my fraternity where I helped us come back from almost dying out as a chapter on campus due to lack of membership
    Incoming President for a Premed club that I've been in since freshman year with various other leadership positions all years
    Facilitator of a mentor-mentee program between the medical school and undergraduate premeds since sophomore year (2 years total, 100 hours spent)
    Paid virtual tutor
    
    
11. Relevant honors or awards
    Dean's High Honors all 6 semesters enrolled in the university
    Admitted into an Integrated Master's in Public Health Program at my school (left this off my application)
    Admitted into the Order of Omega and I now oversee application decisions for students who due to extenuating circumstances are unable to afford their membership fees for the semester
    
    
12. Anything else not listed you think might be important

I have an interest in neurotransmitters and addiction, which in addition to my experience on the Crisis Text Line has led me into an interest in psychiatry. However, since I was unable to shadow a psychiatrist I am unsure if this will be something I will want to mention in interviews.

I am awful at interviews, something I hope to work on by the time applications are in full swing.



Current School List (based on having pass/fail curriculum and my stats):
USF Morsani
Creighton University
Saint Louis University
Tufts University
USC Keck School of Medicine
University of Pittsburgh
Baylor
Stanford University
Case Western Reserve University
UCSF
UC Davis
UC Irvine
UCLA David Geffen
UC Riverside
UCSD
UMich
Geisel Dartmouth
Warren Alpert Brown
Harvard
Hofstra
Boston University
Duke

Looking to add schools to 30 total. At 22 but I’m having second thoughts about my potential Harvard donation. I'm also not from the Riverside area so that might also be a donation.

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[Mr.Smile12]

Crisis line is always challenging to classify, but if they are not actual patients and you have to document into an EHR, it's more likely non-clinical. The issue though is that it isn't usually patient-facing. Typical service orientation activities include food distribution, shelter work, job placement services, transportation services, and housing rehabilitation.

Be reasonable with your list. If you think it's a donation, it probably is. You have to craft your list on your mission (which you haven't really mentioned other than an interest in psych), not on your pride.

Building Your Best School List - SDN

The Student Doctor Network provides free tools, resources, and advising services to help students become health professionals.

www.studentdoctor.net

To that end, on your list, Brown and Stanford are also donations. The Jesuit schools need more service orientation hours. I don't know where you grew up in California, but understand UC programs take region into account.

 

[Faha]

I suggest these schools from your list:
USF Morsani
Creighton University
Saint Louis University
Tufts University
USC Keck School of Medicine
University of Pittsburgh
Case Western Reserve University
UCSF
UC Davis
UC Irvine
UCLA David Geffen
UCSD
UMich
Geisel Dartmouth
Hofstra
Boston University
Duke
You could add these schools:
Einstein
Mount Sinai
Rochester
Jefferson
Temple
Drexel
George Washington
Miami
Cincinnati
Ohio State
Western Michigan
Virginia Commonwealth
Eastern Virginia
Medical College Wisconsin
Kaiser

 

[bayboyo]

Crisis line is always challenging to classify, but if they are not actual patients and you have to document into an EHR, it's more likely non-clinical. The issue though is that it isn't usually patient-facing. Typical service orientation activities include food distribution, shelter work, job placement services, transportation services, and housing rehabilitation.

Be reasonable with your list. If you think it's a donation, it probably is. You have to craft your list on your mission (which you haven't really mentioned other than an interest in psych), not on your pride.

Building Your Best School List - SDN

The Student Doctor Network provides free tools, resources, and advising services to help students become health professionals.

www.studentdoctor.net

To that end, on your list, Brown and Stanford are also donations. The Jesuit schools need more service orientation hours. I don't know where you grew up in California, but understand UC programs take region into account.

I'm from the Bay Area, so I'm close to UCSF but other than that not really in the area of any of the schools. Why are Brown and Stanford donations? To clarify, I am not asking this to doubt your judgment, but to broaden my understanding of what goes into these decisions. I think I'm within range of Stanford (though on the lower end with my MCAT) and Brown has an average of 517 so I'm in range there too.

As for the point on service orientation hours, are you recommending that I don't apply to Creighton and Saint Louis University? I was hoping my clinical volunteering and university involvement could make up for my lack of service in non-clinical settings. I've done patient transport but I considered that clinical.
Also, I looked into mission statements but I'm trying to cast a broad net the things that are most important to me are P/F pre-clerkship curriculum, research opportunities, and being near good hospitals. I would say that I'm most interested in examining and treating patients at the intersection between health behaviors and health outcomes, but other than that I don't personally have a mission statement yet per se, is that an issue?

I suggest these schools from your list:
USF Morsani
Creighton University
Saint Louis University
Tufts University
USC Keck School of Medicine
University of Pittsburgh
Case Western Reserve University
UCSF
UC Davis
UC Irvine
UCLA David Geffen
UCSD
UMich
Geisel Dartmouth
Hofstra
Boston University
Duke
You could add these schools:
Einstein
Mount Sinai
Rochester
Jefferson
Temple
Drexel
George Washington
Miami
Cincinnati
Ohio State
Western Michigan
Virginia Commonwealth
Eastern Virginia
Medical College Wisconsin
Kaiser

Thanks, Faha! I noticed you added two medical schools from Ohio (Cincy and OSU) but not NEO. (1) Do you think it's a good idea for me to apply to these schools despite not declaring Ohio residency, and (2) Is there something wrong with NEOmed? I will definitely be adding Einstein, Sinai, Jefferson, Drexel, and Eastern Virginia (and probably also Cincy and OSU).
Also, I'm pretty sure I know your answer given the admissions stats in-state vs out of state, but what do you think about the Texas schools? I'd like to live there post-graduation but am not sure how important going to a Texas school for undergrad is for that.

Looks like I'll be taking both Casper and Preview

 

[Faha]

Cincinnati and Ohio State matriculate almost 100 non residents each year. NEOMED only 25, and some of those are former Ohio residents or have a connection to the school. The Texas schools admit few non residents with no connection to the state.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Why are Brown and Stanford donations? To clarify, I am not asking this to doubt your judgment, but to broaden my understanding of what goes into these decisions. I think I'm within range of Stanford (though on the lower end with my MCAT) and Brown has an average of 517 so I'm in range there too.

I can be convinced if you have a stronger mission fit. You are in range on the MCAT medians of the matriculants, but I'm not sure about the research experience you have compared to those who will go to Stanford (not sure there's enough "discovery and innovation" that you have done). Brown seems to really like Ivy alumni, but you could see if you could do it. Heck you moved from California to Cleveland... Providence can't be that bad. 🙂

By the way, you need to improve your interviewing skills if you want Stanford if you are at all less than confident.

 

[theoceanman]

You do need to get at least 150+ hours in non-clinical volunteering, especially community service, since that'll make you mission-fit. The overall idea is that you're becoming a physician, but need to serve some kind of specific population that is marginalized, underserved, rural, or in-need beyond the normal scope of an "ideal" population group that has easier access to these healthcare services. Albeit, with your crisis text line, you should potentially have enough to total 150+ hour, but that will be a screen-out at many schools.

Other than, you have strong shadowing and clinical experiences, plus an abundance of research experience that will make you competitive for many places. Like stated above, Brown is notorious for accepting Ivy-league schools/MIT/Stanford/CalTech branded school alumni, rather than other top-notch public or private universities unfortunately. With Stanford, due to the area that it is in, they highly value community service and service just in-general, where they want to see you actively involved in abundant amounts within your own community towards underserved populations. They get receive tons of applications from applicants such as yours, but these individuals who are interviewed usually have great experiences in service and higher MCAT scores as well.

In addition, if you're awful at interviews, I recommend the notorious method of improving them individually until you get a mentor or advisor to help you: this method is when you talk to yourself into a mirror while recording yourself, looking back on the recorded video, and marking improvements you can make, such as more vivid facial expressions, smiling more, using more body and eye language, etc. It personally helped me go from borderline social ineptitude to relatively solid interviewee. Best of luck, cheers.

 

[atriablack]

Any particular reason why you haven't declared Ohio residency? California residency won't give you as much of a benefit as Ohio would (as @gyngyn has mentioned in different posts). As far as I remember Ohio residency isn't terrible hard to obtain and you probably satisfied the requirements just by your on-campus housing/rent.
It might also make other midwest schools more amenable to you (though I notice you don't have many of those in your list anyways so).

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Also, why not clinical psych?

 

[bayboyo]

Thanks for all your responses, everyone!

Cincinnati and Ohio State matriculate almost 100 non residents each year. NEOMED only 25, and some of those are former Ohio residents or have a connection to the school. The Texas schools admit few non residents with no connection to the state.

Any particular reason why you haven't declared Ohio residency? California residency won't give you as much of a benefit as Ohio would (as @gyngyn has mentioned in different posts). As far as I remember Ohio residency isn't terrible hard to obtain and you probably satisfied the requirements just by your on-campus housing/rent.
It might also make other midwest schools more amenable to you (though I notice you don't have many of those in your list anyways so).

There are a lot more California state schools than Ohio schools, so I'd prefer an advantage in getting into those, especially if I can get in-state tuition (I'm slowly awakening to the pricetag of medical education), and thought it would be easier for me to match into a Texas residency program since it's geographically closer so professors at the school might have connections to Texas schools. Not sure if I'm right about that last part, it just made intuitive sense.

You do need to get at least 150+ hours in non-clinical volunteering, especially community service, since that'll make you mission-fit. The overall idea is that you're becoming a physician, but need to serve some kind of specific population that is marginalized, underserved, rural, or in-need beyond the normal scope of an "ideal" population group that has easier access to these healthcare services. Albeit, with your crisis text line, you should potentially have enough to total 150+ hour, but that will be a screen-out at many schools.

Other than, you have strong shadowing and clinical experiences, plus an abundance of research experience that will make you competitive for many places. Like stated above, Brown is notorious for accepting Ivy-league schools/MIT/Stanford/CalTech branded school alumni, rather than other top-notch public or private universities unfortunately. With Stanford, due to the area that it is in, they highly value community service and service just in-general, where they want to see you actively involved in abundant amounts within your own community towards underserved populations. They get receive tons of applications from applicants such as yours, but these individuals who are interviewed usually have great experiences in service and higher MCAT scores as well.

In addition, if you're awful at interviews, I recommend the notorious method of improving them individually until you get a mentor or advisor to help you: this method is when you talk to yourself into a mirror while recording yourself, looking back on the recorded video, and marking improvements you can make, such as more vivid facial expressions, smiling more, using more body and eye language, etc. It personally helped me go from borderline social ineptitude to relatively solid interviewee. Best of luck, cheers.

I volunteer with Medicare patients in a hospice, so if it's more the community demographic engagement that I need I think between that, local hospital volunteering, and Crisis Text Line, I have enough stories to show that I understand the different populations that a doctor needs to treat. I think becoming a better storyteller and interviewee will make a big difference in how this is conveyed so I'll definitely be using those tips. Love your profile picture by the way.

I can be convinced if you have a stronger mission fit. You are in range on the MCAT medians of the matriculants, but I'm not sure about the research experience you have compared to those who will go to Stanford (not sure there's enough "discovery and innovation" that you have done). Brown seems to really like Ivy alumni, but you could see if you could do it. Heck you moved from California to Cleveland... Providence can't be that bad. 🙂

By the way, you need to improve your interviewing skills if you want Stanford if you are at all less than confident.

Yeah, improving my interview skills is definitely something high on my radar. Do you think that if I got something published a little bit later into the year when interviews and waitlists are coming out that would make a difference? I think it's realistic that it would be out mid-cycle but if that'd be too late I might leave Brown and Stanford off my list to make space for other schools. It kind of seems like most schools' missions boil down to research, understanding patients, and a desire to move medicine forward. There are some variations on that, like diversity and a service orientation which I think I can work to fit my experiences into but research seems like it's the most clearly measurable of those. Is it usually measured in publications or is there leeway on what is considered "discovery and innovation"? One of my friends is from RI, so I doubt moving to Providence would be a problem, considering the size of the state we'd probably run into each other shopping for groceries!

Also, why not clinical psych?

That's a good question because while I do prefer holistic approaches to medicine, I realize that will not always be enough for a patient so I'd like to be in a position where I can help patients who think medications are the only path to being healthy find other solutions. Also, I'm not entirely sure yet that psychiatry is what I want to do 100%, but I have seen the damage that neurological health conditions can do, both through research and engaging with hospice patients. This is what I want to address, and I am not yet sure if I want to engage in these problems predominately preventatively or interventionally, though I realize both approaches will be necessary regardless. Again, really appreciate this question because I realize it's likely to come up in an interview and I feel better prepared for it now that I've written down my thoughts in this post.

One more question what is the latest I can submit my application and not have to worry about it lowering my chances of admission? I've heard some varying things, most have said the first two weeks of June, so would that be the 9th? Thanks again everyone for your valuable help!

 

[bayboyo]

UPDATE:
I got into and will be attending Case Western Reserve University! Thanks to everyone who replied in this thread, it made me realize I needed to do a much better job verbalizing my specific interests in medicine and I think ultimately made a huge difference in my interview performance. I submitted my primary somewhere between mid and late June and submitted almost all my secondaries in August.

I didn't include SJT scores initially because I didn't take them until after July but I got 4th quartile on CASPER and a 7 on Preview. I'm pretty sure all the schools I heard back from didn't use either score. My verified GPA was a 3.91 for both BCPM and regular.

I had one interview in October, another in December, and a final one in February which I attended after getting accepted. I sent updates after I got my publication (just a pub, not 1st or 2nd author), which I think is why I got that last interview, but I was accepted before sending that update.

Final school list:
Albert Einstein
Boston University
Brown
Case Western Reserve University
CCLM
Creighton University
Drexel
Eastern Virginia
Geisel Dartmouth
George Washington
Georgetown
Hofstra Zucker
Lewis Katz Temple
Medical College Wisconsin
Mount Sinai
Northwestern
OSU
Rochester
Rush
Saint Louis University
Sidney Kimmel Jefferson
Tufts University
UC Davis
UC Irvine
UCLA David Geffen
UCSD
UCSF
UMichigan
University of Cincinnati
University of Pittsburgh
USC Keck School of Medicine
verified 7/28/23
Virginia Commonwealth
Western Michigan
Yale

Interviews:
OSU - WL > Withdrew
Case Western Reserve University > Accepted
Rochester > WL > Rejection

I hope this helps other people out later on who are lurking in the thread, because they were super helpful to me. My only request is that you consider paying this forward to other people when your cycle ends. SDN is so full of neuroticism it is very reassuring to see people similar to you who got into medical school so it would mean a lot to me if I could inspire others to do the same.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

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