WAMC 527/3.95 Trad MD

[JakAttk]

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1. 3.95 cGPA and sGPA
2. 527 (131/132/132/132)
3. North Carolina Resident, born in NY and some extended family still there
4. White/ORM
5. Top Public Undergrad

6. Clinical Experience
100 hours home care (paid)
700 hours hospital float CNA (paid)
60 hours free clinic (volunteer - borderline clinical/nonclinical)

7. Research Experience
1200 hours in a biochemistry lab at my university's med school
No papers, posters, etc. (may have one 2nd-3rd author in submission by time I apply or interview)

8. Shadowing Experience
28 total hours
Primary care, gastroenterology, neurology, EM

9. Non-Clinical Volunteering
40 hours at an animal sanctuary
120 hours free tutoring for low-income students & interviewing potential tutors

10. Other ECs
Language learning (conversational in Spanish) (Hobby)
Engineering internship one summer

11. Honors/awards
Deans list all 8 semesters

12. Have LOR from my PI, another prof in my lab, 2 science professors, and 1 grad student who was the sole instructor of a humanities course I took.

Schools I'm considering (more than willing to remove some of the top tier schools, though I'm having trouble deciding which):

Harvard Medical School
John's Hopkins University School of Medicine
Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons
Duke University School of Medicine
University of Pennsylvania Perelman School of Medicine
New York University Grossman School of Medicine
Washington University in St. Louis School of Medicine
University of Michigan
Yale School of Medicine
Vanderbilt University School of Medicine
Northwestern University The Feinberg School of Medicine
Weill Cornell Medicine
Ichahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai
University of Chicago Pritzker School of Medicine
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill School of Medicine
Emory University School of Medicine
Keck School of Medicine of the University of Southern California
University of Virginia School of Medicine
Case Western Reserve University School of Medicine
The Warren Alpert Medical School at Brown University
University of Colorado School of Medicine
University of Rochester School of Medicine and Dentistry
Boston University School of Medicine
Albert Einstein College of Medicine
Donald and Barbara Zucker School of Medicine at Hofstra
USF Health Morsani College of Medicine
Stony Brook University School of Medicine
Geisel School of Medicine at Dartmouth
Wake Forest University School of Medicine
Tufts University School of Medicine
Brody School of Medicine at East Carolina University

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Your volunteering is suboptimal. You lack 150 hours of service orientation activities like food distribution, shelter volunteer, job and tax preparation, legal support, transportation services, or housing rehabilitation; your application is at risk of being screened out at most schools. High metrics applicants need 250 hours to stay on pace with other applicants.

Tutoring does not fulfill this requirement as it is a common academic competency activity on practically all premed applications. I love animal sanctuary, but this doesn't address service orientation competency with humans.

I don't see why I should invite you to an interview other than metrics, so what is your purpose and mission fit?

 

[JakAttk]

I don't see why I should invite you to an interview other than metrics, so what is your purpose and mission fit?

My writing so far focuses on how my clinical experience has been fulfilling and has driven me to want to take a more active role in medicine. I know that's somewhat basic but it's genuine. I don't have a particular area of medicine that I want to go into yet, though I could write about what I'm leaning toward if that would be beneficial.

Tutoring does not fulfill this requirement as it is a common academic competency activity on practically all premed applications.

Even volunteer tutoring for low-income children? I figured that would count. I've been working on finding volunteering as you mentioned, and will get as much as I can, but I don't think it's something that I'd like to delay my application for, if possible.

Thanks!

 

[Mr.Smile12]

My writing so far focuses on how my clinical experience has been fulfilling and has driven me to want to take a more active role in medicine. I know that's somewhat basic but it's genuine. I don't have a particular area of medicine that I want to go into yet, though I could write about what I'm leaning toward if that would be beneficial.

I'm not looking for a specialty. I want to know what your want to become after medical school when it comes to being a competent physician regardless of specialty.

Read

Finding Your Purpose as a Health Professional | SDN

In the 2004 Tony-award-winning musical Avenue Q, Princeton, a recent college graduate (with an English degree from a prestigious university), searches to

www.studentdoctor.net

Even volunteer tutoring for low-income children? I figured that would count. I've been working on finding volunteering as you mentioned, and will get as much as I can, but I don't think it's something that I'd like to delay my application for, if possible.

Teaching or tutoring Tier 1 K-12 students is VERY common. It counts but it won't help you stand out.

I am speaking from probability at the admissions desk so it's up to you. However, it's also better to avoid reapplication because despite your metrics, if you still don't get an offer... what's plan B?

Again, we don't know how application, but you need to be informed about what trips up high metrics applicants. It's more than numbers.

 

[Faha]

You should receive several interviews but your lack of non clinical volunteering will limit your chances at top tier schools where you will be competing with applicants who have many hundreds of hours of non clinical volunteering.

 

[JakAttk]

You should receive several interviews but your lack of non clinical volunteering will limit your chances at top tier schools where you will be competing with applicants who have many hundreds of hours of non clinical volunteering.

Gotcha. I'm going to try my best to maximize my hours, but to me, an extra gap year is not worth a top-tier school if I can get into an MD school this cycle. Do you think there are enough schools on my list that I have a good chance at, or do I need to add more mid/low-tier schools?

Thanks so much for the advice.

 

[Faha]

You could add schools such as USF Morsani, Cincinnati, UMass and Jefferson.

 

[JakAttk]

@LizzyM @Goro Would y'all mine chiming in on my school list as I finalize it? It's looking like I'll be closer to 200-220 nonclinical hours by the time I apply.

So far I've removed Yale and added Jefferson and Mayo.

 

[LizzyM]

I've seen the stat-wh0re schools accept low community service if you have all the other elements. I'd say pick the 30 (or whatever number) schools you'd most like to attend.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I've seen the stat-wh0re schools accept low community service if you have all the other elements. I'd say pick the 30 (or whatever number) schools you'd most like to attend.

my clinical experience has been fulfilling and has driven me to want to take a more active role in medicine

This isn't a purpose. What is an "active role"?

OP: I just don't have enough information to know if you have the elements to show purpose and mission fit. I understand the attitude about a gap year isn't worth doing just to get into a top brand, but the GPA/MCAT graph does not say an offer is a lock. 20% of very high metric candidates don't get an offer each year. You want to take that chance?

 

[JakAttk]

This isn't a purpose. What is an "active role"?

OP: I just don't have enough information to know if you have the elements to show purpose and mission fit. I understand the attitude about a gap year isn't worth doing just to get into a top brand, but the GPA/MCAT graph does not say an offer is a lock. 20% of very high metric candidates don't get an offer each year. You want to take that chance?

Sorry, I'm just not exactly sure what you're asking for. My writing centers primarily around my clinical experience, and how I've enjoyed it but felt somewhat limited in my capacity to support my patients. I write a lot about the patient advocacy role of a physician, and how I've seen their role as leader of the medical team gives them a great capacity to benefit their patients, which is what I hope to do. I'm clear on what I want to do, so I'm just not sure how a few hundred hours at a soup kitchen would really improve that.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Sorry, I'm just not exactly sure what you're asking for. My writing centers primarily around my clinical experience, and how I've enjoyed it but felt somewhat limited in my capacity to support my patients. I write a lot about the patient advocacy role of a physician, and how I've seen their role as leader of the medical team gives them a great capacity to benefit their patients, which is what I hope to do. I'm clear on what I want to do, so I'm just not sure how a few hundred hours at a soup kitchen would really improve that.

Because your metrics merit this specific level of response:

I'm looking for (or having you consider developing an answer for) a specific vision of you as a physician. You talk about how you've seen physicians act as leaders of a medical team as a patient advocate. I'm sure the top-name schools consider hundreds/thousands of candidates who have a strong record of leadership with tangible evidence of how they improved their communities (beyond fundraising). You want to play in the big leagues, so you should be able to hit a 95 mph slider.

There are such jobs as patient advocates and community health workers. Perhaps you have experience with your clinic-adjacent activities where you have work with them. They are not doctors, and often they help patients navigate access much better than doctors do. I won't be so flippant to suggest what doctors do best is getting procedure authorizations covered by insurance, but you can read about how that bureaucracy is what turns most practicing physicians (and dentists etc) off.

You should look up programs that embed students as patient navigators during preclinic. But I have to know you are familiar with the resources communities can access. I want you to be in a position to relate to challenges underserved patients face, and it's not just in a classroom where you are most comfortable. When you're in a group discussion with your peers who have all/mostly worked in food pantry/distribution for a few hundred hours before starting medical school to talk about food deserts, what will you do if you have nothing to say?

Hunger’s Effect on Education | Feed the Children

School supply lists have items like pencils, paper, glue, markers and notebooks – all the tools a child needs to be successful in school. But something important is missing. Students need food to perform their best in class.

www.feedthechildren.org

How Food Deserts Hurt Your Patients' Health - Jackson LLP Healthcare Lawyers

A food desert is a geographic area which lacks fresh fruit, vegetables, and other whole foods. These arise from an absence of grocery stores, farmers’ markets, and healthy food providers, and the United States is full of them (1). This problem is linked to obesity, poor diet choices, and hunger...

jacksonllp.com

How Should Physicians Counsel Patients Who Live in Food Deserts?

Physicians can improve diets of patients who live in food deserts by providing nutrition materials, training in food preparation, and promoting nutritious food availability in communities where they practice.

journalofethics.ama-assn.org

Essentially, your profile comes off as cannon fodder; nothing distinguishes you when everyone is not just "above average", and if you are qualified to receive an offer, adcoms will have no problem relegating you to their alternate list. Why should a school want you as a student and future alumnus? Sure a few hundred hours of food pantry volunteering isn't much, but it's a start to show community health faculty you can learn and understand the points made above.

You talk about advocacy, so what credibility do you have when telling a patient they have to eat and exercise? If you believe the public health data, no one is listening to doctor-advocates... they may even tune them out. How can you be a leader if your community/patients don't value your advice? Show us how you advocate for communities and patients and that you can be their witness when talking to power about making change. The outline/summary of your PS is common theme that most of your high-metrics peers (and some who are trying to compensate for lower metrics) use. I know you can't do more, but show me what you have done and how medicine adds to your purpose to make a change in your community. That's what I'm looking for (in your profile).

 

[Goro]

What the wise MrSmile is saying is that you have walk the walk, not merely talk the talk.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

What the wise MrSmile is saying is that you have walk the walk, not merely talk the talk.

Furthermore, when you are told to jump, you answer "how high", not "why?" That adage will serve you very well in medical school.

 

[JakAttk]

Because your metrics merit this specific level of response:

I'm looking for (or having you consider developing an answer for) a specific vision of you as a physician. You talk about how you've seen physicians act as leaders of a medical team as a patient advocate. I'm sure the top-name schools consider hundreds/thousands of candidates who have a strong record of leadership with tangible evidence of how they improved their communities (beyond fundraising). You want to play in the big leagues, so you should be able to hit a 95 mph slider.

There are such jobs as patient advocates and community health workers. Perhaps you have experience with your clinic-adjacent activities where you have work with them. They are not doctors, and often they help patients navigate access much better than doctors do. I won't be so flippant to suggest what doctors do best is getting procedure authorizations covered by insurance, but you can read about how that bureaucracy is what turns most practicing physicians (and dentists etc) off.

You should look up programs that embed students as patient navigators during preclinic. But I have to know you are familiar with the resources communities can access. I want you to be in a position to relate to challenges underserved patients face, and it's not just in a classroom where you are most comfortable. When you're in a group discussion with your peers who have all/mostly worked in food pantry/distribution for a few hundred hours before starting medical school to talk about food deserts, what will you do if you have nothing to say?

Hunger’s Effect on Education | Feed the Children

School supply lists have items like pencils, paper, glue, markers and notebooks – all the tools a child needs to be successful in school. But something important is missing. Students need food to perform their best in class.

www.feedthechildren.org

How Food Deserts Hurt Your Patients' Health - Jackson LLP Healthcare Lawyers

A food desert is a geographic area which lacks fresh fruit, vegetables, and other whole foods. These arise from an absence of grocery stores, farmers’ markets, and healthy food providers, and the United States is full of them (1). This problem is linked to obesity, poor diet choices, and hunger...

jacksonllp.com

How Should Physicians Counsel Patients Who Live in Food Deserts?

Physicians can improve diets of patients who live in food deserts by providing nutrition materials, training in food preparation, and promoting nutritious food availability in communities where they practice.

journalofethics.ama-assn.org

Essentially, your profile comes off as cannon fodder; nothing distinguishes you when everyone is not just "above average", and if you are qualified to receive an offer, adcoms will have no problem relegating you to their alternate list. Why should a school want you as a student and future alumnus? Sure a few hundred hours of food pantry volunteering isn't much, but it's a start to show community health faculty you can learn and understand the points made above.

You talk about advocacy, so what credibility do you have when telling a patient they have to eat and exercise? If you believe the public health data, no one is listening to doctor-advocates... they may even tune them out. How can you be a leader if your community/patients don't value your advice? Show us how you advocate for communities and patients and that you can be their witness when talking to power about making change. The outline/summary of your PS is common theme that most of your high-metrics peers (and some who are trying to compensate for lower metrics) use. I know you can't do more, but show me what you have done and how medicine adds to your purpose to make a change in your community. That's what I'm looking for (in your profile).

Thank you, this is very helpful. Is there any particular reason that this experience with underserved populations should be in a nonclinical setting? Though it was only 60 hours over a summer, my volunteer experience at a free clinic will be one of my most meaningful activities for exactly the reasons you spelled out: I learned a ton about people's struggles in healthcare access, nutrition, etc. I've also had the opportunity to speak with a diverse population of patients as a CNA, who have strengthened my understanding of these issues.

I truly do care about these issues and plan on finding opportunities to volunteer my time to alleviate them once I graduate.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Thank you, this is very helpful. Is there any particular reason that this experience with underserved populations should be in a nonclinical setting? Though it was only 60 hours over a summer, my volunteer experience at a free clinic will be one of my most meaningful activities for exactly the reasons you spelled out: I learned a ton about people's struggles in healthcare access, nutrition, etc. I've also had the opportunity to speak with a diverse population of patients as a CNA, who have strengthened my understanding of these issues.

I truly do care about these issues and plan on finding opportunities to volunteer my time to alleviate them once I graduate.

Not every person wants to go to the doctor. You also need to remove the filter of seeing people with needs as patients.

 

[Goro]

Thank you, this is very helpful. Is there any particular reason that this experience with underserved populations should be in a nonclinical setting? Though it was only 60 hours over a summer, my volunteer experience at a free clinic will be one of my most meaningful activities for exactly the reasons you spelled out: I learned a ton about people's struggles in healthcare access, nutrition, etc. I've also had the opportunity to speak with a diverse population of patients as a CNA, who have strengthened my understanding of these issues.

I truly do care about these issues and plan on finding opportunities to volunteer my time to alleviate them once I graduate.

You need to show off your altruism, off campus and more importantly out of your comfort zone. You need show that you are used to seeing and interacting with people who don't look like you.

Medicine is a service profession, after all