WAMC and School List Advice | Trad, 3.96 cGPA, 519 MCAT, ORM

[premedstudenthere]

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PLEASE DO NOT QUOTE THIS MESSAGE

Hi everyone! I have been using SDN as a tool throughout the application process, and decided it was time to make an account to make a WAMC!

1. cGPA and sGPA: 3.96/3.96
2. MCAT: 519 (130/129/131/129)
3. State of residence or country of citizenship (if non-US): Minnesota
4. Ethnicity and/or race: ORM
5. Undergraduate institution: T5 according to U.S. News
6. Clinical experience (volunteer and non-volunteer)
   1. 40 current hours for health screenings/advocacy in underserved communities (+ 80 more in the following semesters)
   2. 320 hours of hospital volunteering
      1. This includes some time from high school as well. I believe my advisor told me that that was okay.
   3. Also just started a new volunteer position (understandably I hear anticipated hours are not weighed very heavily)
7. Research experience and productivity:
   1. 1100 hours in neuroscience research lab, no publications yet, will thesis there.
   2. 50 hours working on another psychology study internationally, we submitted for publication
      1. Just to clarify, I listed this under research on AMCAS since it hasn’t yet been accepted as a publication.
8. Shadowing experience/specialties represented
   1. 50 hours across anesthesiology, internal medicine, oncology, ophthalmology, orthopedic surgery, radiology, neuroradiology
9. Non-clinical volunteering
   1. 300 hours of ESL tutoring those in other community
   2. 25 at homeless shelter (+ 25 anticipated from this summer)
10. Other extracurricular activities (including athletics, military service, gap year activities, leadership, teaching, etc)
    1. 300 hours as an associate/senior associate/Vice president for a consulting club in college (worked with organizations that are medically adjacent, NDA'd though so I apologize for not being able to elaborate!)
    2. 500 hours as a TA for chemistry/math
    3. 50 hours as a college tutor
    4. 80 hours as a volunteer/director for a mental health advocacy program
11. Relevant honors or awards
    1. I have some basic awards/grants for my research projects during the summer/semesters
    2. GPA honor (omitted from AMCAS since I included my research awards in the description for my research and didn't think this was significant)
12. Anything else not listed you think might be important
    1. I recently took CASPER/PREview. I do not know what my scores are but I can update them here if they may significantly impact my application. My biggest worry is that my state school requires PREview, and if I did poorly, I may get screened out (of course, there is nothing I can do now but prepare secondaries!)
    2. Physician parents/went to Albert Einstein as well as Colombia. Not sure how much that matters

Current School List:

• Albany Medical College
• Albert Einstein College of Medicine
• Boston University Aram V. Chobanian & Edward Avedisian School of Medicine
• Case Western Reserve University School of Medicine
• Columbia University Vagelos College of Physicians and Surgeons
• Geisel School of Medicine at Dartmouth
• Harvard Medical School
• Mayo Clinic Alix School of Medicine
• Medical College of Wisconsin
• Northwestern University The Feinberg School of Medicine
• Ohio State University College of Medicine
• Sidney Kimmel Medical College at Thomas Jefferson University
• Stanford University School of Medicine
• Tufts University School of Medicine
• University of Chicago Division of the Biological Sciences The Pritzker School of Medicine
• University of Iowa Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine
• University of Massachusetts T.H. Chan School of Medicine
• University of Michigan Medical School
• University of Minnesota Medical School
• University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine
• University of Rochester School of Medicine and Dentistry
• University of Wisconsin School of Medicine and Public Health
• Washington University in St. Louis School of Medicine
• Western Michigan University Homer Stryker M.D. School of Medicine
• Zucker School of Medicine at Hofstra/Northwell

I initially submitted my school list knowing it leaned toward the top-heavy side, as I was hoping to receive feedback on how to create a list that’s more balanced and realistic based on my stats. I recognize that I may not have some of the metrics that other applicants do, so I would really appreciate any suggestions or guidance you might have on which schools I might consider adding or removing.

I’m particularly interested in academic medicine, which is why I applied to schools with pathways or strong support in that area, such as WashU. I also included many Midwest schools since I’m originally from the region. Many of the programs I selected have a strong focus on research. While I don’t have publications or presentations, I’ve poured a lot of effort and passion into my research project, and I was hoping that would still carry weight in my application.

Please let me know if it would be helpful for me to share any additional information. Thank you all so much!

 

[premedstudenthere]

Actually, although I do plan on removing my post later into the application cycle, I do not mind having this post quoted, especially as it may be helpful when referring to specific things in my post!

 

[Mr.Smile12]

PLEASE DO NOT QUOTE THIS MESSAGE

Hi everyone! I have been using SDN as a tool throughout the application process, and decided it was time to make an account to make a WAMC!

1. cGPA and sGPA: 3.96/3.96
2. MCAT: 519 (130/129/131/129)
3. State of residence or country of citizenship (if non-US): Minnesota
4. Ethnicity and/or race: ORM
5. Undergraduate institution: T5 according to U.S. News
6. Clinical experience (volunteer and non-volunteer)
   1. 40 current hours for health screenings/advocacy in underserved communities (+ 80 more in the following semesters)
   2. 320 hours of hospital volunteering
      1. This includes some time from high school as well. I believe my advisor told me that that was okay.
   3. Also just started a new volunteer position (understandably I hear anticipated hours are not weighed very heavily)
7. Research experience and productivity:
   1. 1100 hours in neuroscience research lab, no publications yet, will thesis there.
   2. 50 hours working on another psychology study internationally, we submitted for publication
      1. Just to clarify, I listed this under research on AMCAS since it hasn’t yet been accepted as a publication.
8. Shadowing experience/specialties represented
   1. 50 hours across anesthesiology, internal medicine, oncology, ophthalmology, orthopedic surgery, radiology, neuroradiology
9. Non-clinical volunteering
   1. 300 hours of ESL tutoring those in other community
   2. 25 at homeless shelter (+ 25 anticipated from this summer)
10. Other extracurricular activities (including athletics, military service, gap year activities, leadership, teaching, etc)
    1. 300 hours as an associate/senior associate/Vice president for a consulting club in college (worked with organizations that are medically adjacent, NDA'd though so I apologize for not being able to elaborate!)
    2. 500 hours as a TA for chemistry/math
    3. 50 hours as a college tutor
    4. 80 hours as a volunteer/director for a mental health advocacy program
11. Relevant honors or awards
    1. I have some basic awards/grants for my research projects during the summer/semesters
    2. GPA honor (omitted from AMCAS since I included my research awards in the description for my research and didn't think this was significant)
12. Anything else not listed you think might be important
    1. I recently took CASPER/PREview. I do not know what my scores are but I can update them here if they may significantly impact my application. My biggest worry is that my state school requires PREview, and if I did poorly, I may get screened out (of course, there is nothing I can do now but prepare secondaries!)
    2. Physician parents/went to Albert Einstein as well as Colombia. Not sure how much that matters

Current School List:

• Albany Medical College
• Albert Einstein College of Medicine
• Boston University Aram V. Chobanian & Edward Avedisian School of Medicine
• Case Western Reserve University School of Medicine
• Columbia University Vagelos College of Physicians and Surgeons
• Geisel School of Medicine at Dartmouth
• Harvard Medical School
• Mayo Clinic Alix School of Medicine
• Medical College of Wisconsin
• Northwestern University The Feinberg School of Medicine
• Ohio State University College of Medicine
• Sidney Kimmel Medical College at Thomas Jefferson University
• Stanford University School of Medicine
• Tufts University School of Medicine
• University of Chicago Division of the Biological Sciences The Pritzker School of Medicine
• University of Iowa Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine
• University of Massachusetts T.H. Chan School of Medicine
• University of Michigan Medical School
• University of Minnesota Medical School
• University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine
• University of Rochester School of Medicine and Dentistry
• University of Wisconsin School of Medicine and Public Health
• Washington University in St. Louis School of Medicine
• Western Michigan University Homer Stryker M.D. School of Medicine
• Zucker School of Medicine at Hofstra/Northwell

I initially submitted my school list knowing it leaned toward the top-heavy side, as I was hoping to receive feedback on how to create a list that’s more balanced and realistic based on my stats. I recognize that I may not have some of the metrics that other applicants do, so I would really appreciate any suggestions or guidance you might have on which schools I might consider adding or removing.

I’m particularly interested in academic medicine, which is why I applied to schools with pathways or strong support in that area, such as WashU. I also included many Midwest schools since I’m originally from the region. Many of the programs I selected have a strong focus on research. While I don’t have publications or presentations, I’ve poured a lot of effort and passion into my research project, and I was hoping that would still carry weight in my application.

Please let me know if it would be helpful for me to share any additional information. Thank you all so much!

Welcome to the forums.

My own notes: I don't pay attention to activities with fewer than 50 hours unless it's shadowing. If you submitted your application for the 2025-2026 cycle, I don't think you have a lot of clinical experience to keep pace with other high-metrics applicants.

You also lack significant non-clinical experience, specifically service orientation activities. You only claim 20 hours of food distribution, and you must have 150 hours to avoid getting screened out at most schools. You could also fill the gap with activities such as shelter volunteer, job/tax preparation, legal support, transportation services, or housing rehabilitation. For high-metrics applicants, you should have at least 250 hours to keep pace with your high-metrics peers. Be aware your peers may have hundreds to thousands of hours more than you.

Bombing PREview shouldn't prevent you from being considered for your in-state program. There's scant evidence that bombing PREview screens you out.

Yeah, if your parents went to NYC schools, you probably should try. Are your family members significant donors to those schools? (There are safeguards since you won't be the first child of an alumnus to apply.)

On research productivity, read

Research Experience and Faculty References: Profile of the Accepted Applicant 2025 | SDN

Prehealth applicants worry about the importance of a research experience in the application process. Research experience offers a rewarding opportunity to

www.studentdoctor.net

 

[premedstudenthere]

Welcome to the forums.

My own notes: I don't pay attention to activities with fewer than 50 hours unless it's shadowing. If you submitted your application for the 2025-2026 cycle, I don't think you have a lot of clinical experience to keep pace with other high-metrics applicants.

You also lack significant non-clinical experience, specifically service orientation activities. You only claim 20 hours of food distribution, and you must have 150 hours to avoid getting screened out at most schools. You could also fill the gap with activities such as shelter volunteer, job/tax preparation, legal support, transportation services, or housing rehabilitation. For high-metrics applicants, you should have at least 250 hours to keep pace with your high-metrics peers. Be aware your peers may have hundreds to thousands of hours more than you.

Bombing PREview shouldn't prevent you from being considered for your in-state program. There's scant evidence that bombing PREview screens you out.

Yeah, if your parents went to NYC schools, you probably should try. Are your family members significant donors to those schools? (There are safeguards since you won't be the first child of an alumnus to apply.)

On research productivity, read

Research Experience and Faculty References: Profile of the Accepted Applicant 2025 | SDN

Prehealth applicants worry about the importance of a research experience in the application process. Research experience offers a rewarding opportunity to

www.studentdoctor.net

Hi Mr. Smile,

Thank you for the welcome!

I see, thank you for your honest feedback! I want to clarify that my ESL tutoring is with adult immigrants in my neighboring community (it looks like I may have accidentally deleted that part). Would that count then for service orientation?

My parents have not donated to their schools before.

Thank you for all of the help, especially the link to research. I assumed my sights were aimed too high but I will have to do some serious rethinking. Would you advise then to chop most of the T10's (T20's?) off of the list and amend the rest of the list? I have already spent money sending them my primaries, so I do not mind filling out their secondaries, but definitely want to have a more realistic application for many schools!

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Hi Mr. Smile,

Thank you for the welcome!

I see, thank you for your honest feedback! I want to clarify that my ESL tutoring is with adult immigrants in my neighboring community (it looks like I may have accidentally deleted that part). Would that count then for service orientation?

My parents have not donated to their schools before.

Thank you for all of the help, especially the link to research. I assumed my sights were aimed too high but I will have to do some serious rethinking. Would you advise then to chop most of the T10's (T20's?) off of the list and amend the rest of the list? I have already spent money sending them my primaries, so I do not mind filling out their secondaries, but definitely want to have a more realistic application for many schools!

Teaching always has some element of service orientation; it's not a mutually exclusive trait. In fact, helping other people is the base of service orientation and is in just about every volunteering, teaching, or customer service experience. However, you aren't teaching people to comfort them from their suffering or difficult social circumstances.

Every premed applicant (practically speaking) has some teaching, tutoring, or mentoring activities, and these are activities we expect of people who have been successful navigating the academic system. Teaching ESL to adult immigrants is great, but it won't help you stand out, and when it comes to selecting candidates, your activity doesn't tell us more about what you know about serving people from a position where you are not a subject matter expert.

Maybe faculty who are on the committees may differ, but after running through a few dozen to hundred applications to see so many applicants who teach science to grade school children in underserved communities, English to immigrants, or sports to disabled community members, they come to see that these activities are just about a penny a dozen. It's not going to be enough to get you up the staircase towards an interview.

Furthermore, we need teachers in this world. Many premeds probably would be teachers if only our society would pay teachers more (money or respect). Seriously, look at all the hours you have listed under tutoring or teaching (ESL, college tutor, chemistry/math): 550 hours. It's more than your hospital volunteering. Where you spend your time is where your heart resides, and you don't have enough clinical experience to offset the teaching hours. Why didn't you want to be a teacher? If you want an academic career, why not a Masters or PhD (not SMP)?

Thank you for all of the help, especially the link to research. I assumed my sights were aimed too high but I will have to do some serious rethinking. Would you advise then to chop most of the T10's (T20's?) off of the list and amend the rest of the list? I have already spent money sending them my primaries, so I do not mind filling out their secondaries, but definitely want to have a more realistic application for many schools!

What's done is done. You could have posted a few months ago before spending money on your primaries, but we can't worry about the money you have sent out. I would ask you why you included the schools you did; what is your mission fit with them and how will they nurture your purpose as a physician. The top schools will always have the resources to make applicants think they're in Candyland; frankly, many of the middle tier schools do too. Besides, the middle tier also belong in the "academic medicine" family; I'm pleasantly surprised what I learn from the curriculum deans at those schools. You can buy into the sunk cost fallacy; we admissions officers (actually, it's the schools' CFOs) love knowing you'll still send us money.

 

[premedstudenthere]

Teaching always has some element of service orientation; it's not a mutually exclusive trait. In fact, helping other people is the base of service orientation and is in just about every volunteering, teaching, or customer service experience. However, you aren't teaching people to comfort them from their suffering or difficult social circumstances.

Every premed applicant (practically speaking) has some teaching, tutoring, or mentoring activities, and these are activities we expect of people who have been successful navigating the academic system. Teaching ESL to adult immigrants is great, but it won't help you stand out, and when it comes to selecting candidates, your activity doesn't tell us more about what you know about serving people from a position where you are not a subject matter expert.

Maybe faculty who are on the committees may differ, but after running through a few dozen to hundred applications to see so many applicants who teach science to grade school children in underserved communities, English to immigrants, or sports to disabled community members, they come to see that these activities are just about a penny a dozen. It's not going to be enough to get you up the staircase towards an interview.

Furthermore, we need teachers in this world. Many premeds probably would be teachers if only our society would pay teachers more (money or respect). Seriously, look at all the hours you have listed under tutoring or teaching (ESL, college tutor, chemistry/math): 550 hours. It's more than your hospital volunteering. Where you spend your time is where your heart resides, and you don't have enough clinical experience to offset the teaching hours. Why didn't you want to be a teacher? If you want an academic career, why not a Masters or PhD (not SMP)?



What's done is done. You could have posted a few months ago before spending money on your primaries, but we can't worry about the money you have sent out. I would ask you why you included the schools you did; what is your mission fit with them and how will they nurture your purpose as a physician. The top schools will always have the resources to make applicants think they're in Candyland; frankly, many of the middle tier schools do too. Besides, the middle tier also belong in the "academic medicine" family; I'm pleasantly surprised what I learn from the curriculum deans at those schools. You can buy into the sunk cost fallacy; we admissions officers (actually, it's the schools' CFOs) love knowing you'll still send us money.

That is fair enough; I used teaching to lay out my "Why I want to be a doctor"; I think I conveyed it well enough, but definitely a valid question. Also, to clarify, when you initially said "You could also fill the gap with activities..." would those be activities that I update the adcom's on through a letter?

Also yes, I definitely believe many other schools have that as a priority! Do you have any recommendations for where I could amend my list? I of course will go for schools that fit my theme, but given what you said about my application it seems I may be way too uncompetitive for a certain percentage of schools (no matter how much application money I send them haha), especially since my school list is top-heavy anyways.

Will also tag @Faha for school list input! (I saw another thread did this, but I apologize if I wasn't supposed to tag you).

 

[Mr.Smile12]

That is fair enough; I used teaching to lay out my "Why I want to be a doctor"; I think I conveyed it well enough, but definitely a valid question. Also, to clarify, when you initially said "You could also fill the gap with activities..." would those be activities that I update the adcom's on through a letter?

Also yes, I definitely believe many other schools have that as a priority! Do you have any recommendations for where I could amend my list? I of course will go for schools that fit my theme, but given what you said about my application it seems I may be way too uncompetitive for a certain percentage of schools (no matter how much application money I send them haha), especially since my school list is top-heavy anyways.

Will also tag @Faha for school list input! (I saw another thread did this, but I apologize if I wasn't supposed to tag you).

So I want to know exactly what that means to set your career up for academic medicine. What mentors and projects are you looking to do? If you do bench work, in my opinion, you should go for the MD/PhD route. There's more in academic medicine that involves surveys, lit searches, and academic/educational assessments. You have to grant-write and IRB-request for all of those circumstances too.

 

[Faha]

Your list is good but top heavy so I suggest adding more schools and consider these:
Hofstra
Mount Sinai
USF Morsani
Miami
George Washington
Colorado
Vermont

 

[Pile O' Nephritis]

My two cents: Teaching is a good way of explaining why you want to be a doctor — all doctors have to "teach" to some degree, and teaching is largely a form of service (just look at programs like Teach for America) so it makes sense the physician path appeals to you.

If asked, you can explain and substantiate which things you want to do as a physician that you cannot do as a teacher. What skills, opportunities, communities, resources, certifications, etc does being a physician open up to you that make being a physician a more attractive way of serving your community? What's stopping you from doing those things now and why will the DO or MD degree allow you to do them?

(You've already submitted your PS so I'm not sure how much this helps, but I wanted to chime in, in light of the above discussion.)