WAMC and School List Help: 4.0 GPA. 513 MCAT. Career-Changer.

[trailrunner141]

Thanks for taking the time to review my stats and lend your 2 cents. I am a 29 YO non-trad, who spent the past two years completing my pre-reqs at night while working FT during the day as a research assistant. Prior to switching to medicine, I spent 4.5 years in a field unrelated to healthcare (Finance).

I have a dilemma. I got my MCAT score back yesterday and got a 513 (130, 125, 130, 128). Because my CARS score is a 125, my post bacc program will not write a committee letter for me; instead, they will allow me to submit a letter packet (their requirement for a committee letter is a 3.0 GPA and at least a 127 in the sciences and a 126 in CARS).

I know many schools say they prefer a committee letter, and I am afraid submitting a letter packet with obstruct my chances at an acceptance. I am curious, based on my application broadly, if my fears are misguided and I should apply anyway. My stats and school list are provided below.

Again, thank you for taking the time to help me out.

My hard stats are:

1. cGPA: 3.96 (Undergraduate major was ECON, graduated in 2016 from a T30 undergrad) sGPA: 4.00 (all from a post-bacc, where I completed all of my pre-reqs, 40 credits total)
2. MCAT: 513 (130, 125, 130, 128)
3. Residency: Massachusetts
4. Race: White
5. Undergrad: Boston College, 2016 (Economics, No pre-medical coursework)
6. Clinical experience:
   1. Medical Scribe - Primary Care (850 hours)
   2. Medical Scribe - Emergency Department (750 hours)
7. Research: Research Assistant in a dry lab, working on epidemiological research applied to oral anticoagulant use and cancer prevention (3000 hours, 1 pub). This is my current full-time job, which I've held over the past 2 years as I've completed my post-bacc classes at night.
8. Shadowing: Internal Medicine, Psychiatry, Cardiology (20 hrs total)
9. Volunteering:
   1. Patient Visitor in a hospital (80 hours over the past year)
   2. Math tutor over the past year (25 hours total over the past year)
10. Other experiences (my career prior to switching to medicine):
11. Private Equity Associate in NY (4000 hours over 1 year)
12. Investment Banking Analyst in NY (13000 hours over 3.5 years)

School List: I am prioritizing schools on the East Coast, but I am flexible.

1. Albany Medical College
2. University of Arizona - Tucson and Phoenix
3. Wake Forest
4. UVM
5. George Washington
6. Lewis Katz
7. Penn State
8. Eastern VA
9. Drexel
10. Rutgers
11. UConn
12. Quinnipiac
13. U Maryland
14. U Colorado
15. Thomas Jefferson
16. Miami (Miller)
17. Tufts
18. UCF
19. NYU - Long Island
20. New York Medical College
21. Umass Chan
22. Dartmouth
23. Albert Einstein

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[chilly_md]

You have many schools that do not take OOS students without significant ties (Arizona schools, Rutgers, UConn etc).

You also lack non-clinical volunteering to the underserved, which is the bigger concern compared to your letter situation. You would have better chances and also be able to add additional schools if you gained 150 hours at a food bank, soup kitchen, homeless shelter or similar community organization. Medicine is an altruistic profession. Having none alongside you putting down years of working 70-80 hours on Wall Street (with the assumption you were well compensated at these firms) does not bode well.

Subtract out 50 hours from your scribe job and put it in as shadowing alongside the existing hours you have already listed on AMCAS.

I suggest:

Tufts
UMass
Boston
Albany
NYMC
Drexel
Temple
Jefferson
Quinnipiac
NYU LI
Einstein
Dartmouth
Rosalind Franklin
UIC (very high OOS tuition FYI)
MCW
Western Michigan
Penn State
Vermont
George Washington
Hackensack
Wake
Nova MD

 

[trailrunner141]

You have many schools that do not take OOS students without significant ties (Arizona schools, Rutgers, UConn etc).

You also lack non-clinical volunteering to the underserved, which is the bigger concern compared to your letter situation. You would have better chances and also be able to add additional schools if you gained 150 hours at a food bank, soup kitchen, homeless shelter or similar community organization. Medicine is an altruistic profession. Having none alongside you putting down years of working 70-80 hours on Wall Street (with the assumption you were well compensated at these firms) does not bode well.

Subtract out 50 hours from your scribe job and put it in as shadowing alongside the existing hours you have already listed on AMCAS.

I suggest:

Tufts
UMass
Boston
Albany
NYMC
Drexel
Temple
Jefferson
Quinnipiac
NYU LI
Einstein
Dartmouth
Rosalind Franklin
UIC (very high OOS tuition FYI)
MCW
Western Michigan
Penn State
Vermont
George Washington
Hackensack
Wake
Nova MD

I agree that 100 total volunteering hours is on the light side: it's the best I could do with: 1) a full-time job, 2) night classes, and 3) covid limiting the available options I could fit into my schedule outside of 7am-10pm monday through friday I was busy with 1&2. It's a weakpoint I hope is understandable, but I agree it's a weakpoint. As for my experience in my prior career, I don't see eye-to-eye with you in that it's a negative. Yes, I worked hard, and yes I was well-paid for it. Why is that in itself a negative? I also chose to leave that high-paying job to become a medical scribe and pursue medicine. Doesn't that say something?

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I have a dilemma. I got my MCAT score back yesterday and got a 513 (130, 125, 130, 128). Because my CARS score is a 125, my post bacc program will not write a committee letter for me; instead, they will allow me to submit a letter packet (their requirement for a committee letter is a 3.0 GPA and at least a 127 in the sciences and a 126 in CARS).

I know many schools say they prefer a committee letter, and I am afraid submitting a letter packet with obstruct my chances at an acceptance.

It's not going to matter too much. Committee letters can give a different voice on your journey to the profession and insight into the curriculum of your postbac program (including advising). However, committee letters do not have more gravitas in reviewing an application. It just offers more insight.

 

[chilly_md]

I agree that 100 total volunteering hours is on the light side: it's the best I could do with: 1) a full-time job, 2) night classes, and 3) covid limiting the available options I could fit into my schedule outside of 7am-10pm monday through friday I was busy with 1&2. It's a weakpoint I hope is understandable, but I agree it's a weakpoint. As for my experience in my prior career, I don't see eye-to-eye with you in that it's a negative. Yes, I worked hard, and yes I was well-paid for it. Why is that in itself a negative? I also chose to leave that high-paying job to become a medical scribe and pursue medicine. Doesn't that say something?

The thing is you don’t really have 100 either because tutoring really belongs in the teaching category and patient visitor is more like clinical experience.

Many applicants do their non-clinical volunteering during the weekend. There was also the fact that you could have done research part-time to cover the most recent time period when you could have done some. Unfortunately for you, some of the other schools you’d be competitive for are very service-oriented, so you would not get leeway there. You certainly can show well that you are making an informed decision to change to medicine. But applicants at this stat range can’t rely on schools that are more research-focused when their non-clinical volunteering is low.

 

[trailrunner141]

The thing is you don’t really have 100 either because tutoring really belongs in the teaching category and patient visitor is more like clinical experience.

Many applicants do their non-clinical volunteering during the weekend. There was also the fact that you could have done research part-time to cover the most recent time period when you could have done some. Unfortunately for you, some of the other schools you’d be competitive for are very service-oriented, so you would not get leeway there. You certainly can show well that you are making an informed decision to change to medicine. But applicants at this stat range can’t rely on schools that are more research-focused when their non-clinical volunteering is lo

 

[trailrunner141]

I agree that 100 total volunteering hours is on the light side: it's the best I could do with: 1) a full-time job, 2) night classes, and 3) covid limiting the available options I could fit into my schedule outside of 7am-10pm monday through friday I was busy with 1&2. It's a weakpoint I hope is understandable, but I agree it's a weakpoint. As for my experience in my prior career, I don't see eye-to-eye with you in that it's a negative. Yes, I worked hard, and yes I was well-paid for it. Why is that in itself a negative? I also chose to leave that high-paying job to become a medical scribe and pursue medicine. Doesn't that say something?

We're just going to have to disagree, then. My roles as both tutor and patient visitor are volunteer work. My badges for both literally say "volunteer" on them. And going part-time on research isn't something I have the privilege of doing - if I don't work full-time consistently, I lose my health insurance.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

We're just going to have to disagree, then. My roles as both tutor and patient visitor are volunteer work. My badges for both literally say "volunteer" on them. And going part-time on research isn't something I have the privilege of doing - if I don't work full-time consistently, I lose my health insurance.

The positions are volunteer, but you need to convince the screeners and admissions committee members who have the rubrics to argue your volunteering experience should not be categorized into those bins. It's not that you are doing volunteering work because you are. The issue is that we categorize your volunteering as tutoring and clinical volunteering. Both demonstrate service orientation, but a lot of programs want to see service orientation activities that are not clinic-adjacent and focus on alleviating others' distress (see the AAMC competency definition).

We are just giving you insight on how your description is likely to be regarded. It's possible we could be wrong, but we have seen the patterns and/or we have been in the rooms where decisions happen.

 

[YodaPineapple]

You have many schools that do not take OOS students without significant ties (Arizona schools, Rutgers, UConn etc).

You also lack non-clinical volunteering to the underserved, which is the bigger concern compared to your letter situation. You would have better chances and also be able to add additional schools if you gained 150 hours at a food bank, soup kitchen, homeless shelter or similar community organization. Medicine is an altruistic profession. Having none alongside you putting down years of working 70-80 hours on Wall Street (with the assumption you were well compensated at these firms) does not bode well.

Subtract out 50 hours from your scribe job and put it in as shadowing alongside the existing hours you have already listed on AMCAS.

I suggest:

Tufts
UMass
Boston
Albany
NYMC
Drexel
Temple
Jefferson
Quinnipiac
NYU LI
Einstein
Dartmouth
Rosalind Franklin
UIC (very high OOS tuition FYI)
MCW
Western Michigan
Penn State
Vermont
George Washington
Hackensack
Wake
Nova MD

Not OP but curious. I generally try to make sure when I apply to an OOS school the data somewhat supports a chance of getting an interview. In the case of UArizona phoenix, am I wasting my time? The data seems to support a chance, but on a second look it seems like many of their OOS students are from states surrounding Arizona. Their secondary gives ample opportunity to show interest, which I have, however I do not have what people would consider "ties". Am I wasting my time? It's not the shortest secondary, if so. thanks. @chilly_md

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Not OP but curious. I generally try to make sure when I apply to an OOS school the data somewhat supports a chance of getting an interview. In the case of UArizona phoenix, am I wasting my time? The data seems to support a chance, but on a second look it seems like many of their OOS students are from states surrounding Arizona. Their secondary gives ample opportunity to show interest, which I have, however I do not have what people would consider "ties". Am I wasting my time? It's not the shortest secondary, if so. thanks. @chilly_md

Speaking in generic terms only.

If you think you have made the case for your mission fit and alignment with their program, it's worth figuring that out and arguing your points. The MSAR data only represents the most recent class where they have data, not a history over 5-10 years.

 

[chilly_md]

Not OP but curious. I generally try to make sure when I apply to an OOS school the data somewhat supports a chance of getting an interview. In the case of UArizona phoenix, am I wasting my time? The data seems to support a chance, but on a second look it seems like many of their OOS students are from states surrounding Arizona. Their secondary gives ample opportunity to show interest, which I have, however I do not have what people would consider "ties". Am I wasting my time? It's not the shortest secondary, if so. thanks. @chilly_md

It would be more helpful to create your own WAMC for these kinds of questions about whether specific schools should be on your list.

They seem to like using OOS spots on those with Spanish speaking skills or have a Latino background. Some high stats applicants may have success (such as the 519/520 MCAT you mentioned having) but with the number of schools that are viable to apply to at that range, there isn’t really a reason for trying. Mayo AZ for example would be better, especially for those in a neighboring state who might like staying closer to home.

 

[trailrunner141]

@chilly_md and @Mr.Smile12 thank's for your input. It seems I may need to gain more volunteering and re-apply next year.