WAMC/School List Review 520/3.94

[Orsted]

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WAMC/School List Help

Hello all! Before I throw myself into the fray, might as well do the ritual here to make sure I am not delusional about applying this cycle.

Full context - [General application narrative redacted for anonymity]

Demographics: ORM Male, trad applicant/rising senior, state flagship, no IAs/red flags as far as I’m aware, engineering background.

Stats: 3.94 GPA / 3.89 sGPA, 520 MCAT

Research: (1800 hours)

• 300 hours from clinical project done as a senior in high school that extended into college, 1 paper accepted for publication! (Maybe out the door before cycle begins, not sure how to count the hours here)
• 1000 hours from a REU, 2 possible papers in the works later this cycle. one first author (not that that means anything at the moment)
• 500 hours + 500 anticipated (another 1-2 possible papers later in the cycle, the woes of a trad applicant 🙁 )

7 poster presentations

Clinical: (200 hours)

• 100 hours in the brain and spine unit of a large medical center + 100 anticipated
• 100 hours shadowing (ortho, oncology, peds, ENT)

Definitely the weakest part of my application, hoping my overall life experiences can do the heavy lifting in explaining my motivations for obtaining a medical education. Struggled to get hours during undergrad due to the large number of students at my school and lack of access to a vehicle.

Nonclinical Volunteering: (150 hours)

• 150 hours. Small nonprofit I worked closely with.

Leadership: (200 hours)

• 200 hours. Student group related to my major. Mentorship.

Other: (900 hours)

• 600 hours. Club sport
• 300 hours. Robotics program

School List:
Cleared for sake of anonymity since I’ve had my questions answered here.


I understand nonclinical I will need more hours to keep pace with a lot of the top tier applicants, which we will see if I can pull that off before the 28th. Also will likely begin an engineering design capstone this year which although not pertinent to my app will likely be something I can add to my application/discuss by interview season. Pre-writing as many apps as possible at the moment to apply as broadly as I can.

I’m not a stickler for prestige and really am just trying to get admitted into an MD program. I understand my clinical is lacking but would rather not take a gap year if getting into an MD program this year is realistic.

If you can identify me from this, you didn’t 🙂

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I understand nonclinical I will need more hours to keep pace with a lot of the top tier applicants, which we will see if I can pull that off before the 28th. Also will likely begin an engineering design capstone this year which although not pertinent to my app will likely be something I can add to my application/discuss by interview season. Pre-writing as many apps as possible at the moment to apply as broadly as I can.

I'm not sure you understand. With your metrics, if you intend to keep pace with other applicants with high metrics, you should have 250 hours of service orientation activities when you submit your application (150 minimum to avoid getting screened out). You haven't listed any service orientation activities (food distribution, shelter volunteer, job/tax preparation, legal support, transportation services, or housing rehabilitation). What you have listed sounds like creative endeavors where you are applying your "research"; hence it's more an entrepreneurial/academic activity, not service orientation where you are there to comfort those who have social services needs. Your entire application has many engineering-related connections where you show off your problem-solving, and not enough that shows me you can be comfortable with sick or suffering people.

 

[Orsted]

I'm not sure you understand. With your metrics, if you intend to keep pace with other applicants with high metrics, you should have 250 hours of service orientation activities when you submit your application (150 minimum to avoid getting screened out). You haven't listed any service orientation activities (food distribution, shelter volunteer, job/tax preparation, legal support, transportation services, or housing rehabilitation). What you have listed sounds like creative endeavors where you are applying your "research"; hence it's more an entrepreneurial/academic activity, not service orientation where you are there to comfort those who have social services needs. Your entire application has many engineering-related connections where you show off your problem-solving, and not enough that shows me you can be comfortable with sick or suffering people.

To clarify: [Redacted for anonymity]

It’s using a skill I’ve developed to positively impact those less fortunate than me. Figured this would be a more useful way of spending my time than feeling like I was “checking a box” by working at a food bank or shelter.

If that’s not enough to demonstrate that I am someone who wants to care for the sick and suffering, then I’m more than open to simply doing something of the nature you suggested. Likely too late to be relevant this cycle though.

 

[Faha]

Where is your state of residence? Accumulate another 50 hours of clinical volunteering with patient contact (not shadowing) before you submit your application since many schools screen at 150 hours.

 

[Orsted]

Where is your state of residence? Accumulate another 50 hours of clinical volunteering with patient contact (not shadowing) before you submit your application since many schools screen at 150 hours.

[redacted for anonymity]

 

[Faha]

OH resident, KY/NH ties

Your stats are competitive for any school but your clinical and non clinical hours are not for top tier schools where you will be competing with applicants who have hundreds of thousands of hours each of clinical and non clinical hours.
I suggest these schools with your stats:
Toledo
Wright State
NEOMED
Ohio State
Cincinnati
Case Western
West Virginia
Marshall
Carle Illinois (you fit their profile)
Arizona State University School of Medicine and Advanced Medical Engineering (when it opens)
Texas A&M University School of Engineering Medicine (when it opens)
U Michigan
Western Michigan
Northwestern
Washington University (in St. Louis-they like high stat applicants)
Vanderbilt
Duke
TCU
Colorado
Arizona (Phoenix)
USF Morsani
Miami
Wake Forest
U Virginia
Virginia Tech
George Washington
Penn State
Temple
Jefferson
Pittsburgh
Hofstra
Einstein
Mount Sinai
New York Medical College
Vermont
UMass
Tufts

 

[Mr.Smile12]

To clarify: This is a 501c nonprofit that I help on a volunteer basis. I have done this for the past year and a half, and we work directly with schools/blind individuals to design and distribute various models to help visualize different objects/concepts. (Ex: designed/helped create a 3x3ft topographic map of a visually impaired farmer’s land, worked with their feedback thru multiple iterations until we got something that truly helped them).

Aside, sounds a lot like

All the Light We Cannot See — Anthony Doerr

www.anthonydoerr.com

It’s using a skill I’ve developed to positively impact those less fortunate than me. Figured this would be a more useful way of spending my time than feeling like I was “checking a box” by working at a food bank or shelter.

If that’s not enough to demonstrate that I am someone who wants to care for the sick and suffering, then I’m more than open to simply doing something of the nature you suggested. Likely too late to be relevant this cycle though.

How to Engineer a Health Professional Career | SDN

NOTE: In this article, “engineering” can refer to quantitative analytical subjects like physics, mathematics, computer science, or finance/economics, but

www.studentdoctor.net

Sounds interesting how you use (may have used) your "innovation center" to produce personalized prototypes. Amazing what 3D printers can do now (and I'm sure you built more things than the 3D printers). Several universities I know have done this over the last decade to craft accessories or assistive devices for disabled children or individuals (veterans). The center I know also has an incubator for non-profit and for-profits. I'm mentioning, I understand what you're doing and its impact, and it's been argued in front of adcoms before.

You're doing great things as an engineer. You can also argue that being a civil engineer involves service orientation with the logic you present (you can build accessibility ramps or lifts). It fits the bill if you want to pursue a career as a professional engineer, though. Unfortunately, that's not showing a deep appreciation or alignment with service orientation for health care providers. You cannot always engineer your way to relieve patient's suffering. (In other words, to address "if it's not enough...," I can say from my experience it isn't. And I have an engineering background.

There are many more engineering applicants like you who have done service orientation activities. Few have had the impact you have with engineering solutions to problems. I would suggest focusing on the schools that would appreciate it if you insist on applying this cycle. You should know which schools have strong engineering programs where you may fit in (WashU especially, Carle, TxA&M EnMed, AzSU when it opens, Duke, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, CWRU/CCLCM). As an in-state Ohio applicant, you will also have an advantage with your in-state public options (Cincinnati, Ohio State, OUHCOM DO).

Q&A with Carle Illinois College of Medicine: Developing Innovation and Entrepreneurship as Health Professionals | SDN

In a previous article, I discussed the advantages engineering-trained applicants bring to the health professions. For this article, we asked the

www.studentdoctor.net

 

[surelycalm]

Clinical: (200 hours)

• 100 hours in the brain and spine unit of a large medical center + 100 anticipated
• 100 hours shadowing (ortho, oncology, peds, ENT)

This is only 100 hours of clinical. Shadowing is separate.
Is the 100 anticipated before you apply? Schools don't count anticipated hours.
Did you interact with patients at the brain and spine unit?

You need a minimum of 250 hours and realistically 400-500 to be competitive. While stats and other ECs are important, lack of clinical will torpedo even a 528/4.0 applicant. They want to feel confident that you know what it's like to work in a clinical setting.

Your non-clinical is a bit iffy as well. It sounds a bit more like a school setting, which is a different category. For non-clinical they really want to see that you worked with and interacted with the underserved community. Things like working at a soup kitchen, food bank, etc.

 

[Orsted]

Clinical: (200 hours)

• 100 hours in the brain and spine unit of a large medical center + 100 anticipated
• 100 hours shadowing (ortho, oncology, peds, ENT)

This is only 100 hours of clinical. Shadowing is separate.
Is the 100 anticipated before you apply? Schools don't count anticipated hours.
Did you interact with patients at the brain and spine unit?

You need a minimum of 250 hours and realistically 400-500 to be competitive. While stats and other ECs are important, lack of clinical will torpedo even a 528/4.0 applicant. They want to feel confident that you know what it's like to work in a clinical setting.

Your non-clinical is a bit iffy as well. It sounds a bit more like a school setting, which is a different category. For non-clinical they really want to see that you worked with and interacted with the underserved community. Things like working at a soup kitchen, food bank, etc.

100 is already done, 100 more anticipated. All of this was directly interacting with patients. I’ve journaled meaningful experiences I’ve had through this, and can talk about this.

Bottlenecked by the volume of others trying to get clinical volunteering. Tried to also do a Free Clinic I was actually able to walk to but couldn’t apply my way in to their system unfortunately. Getting clinical volunteering experience during my undergrad years has been a massive challenge, really was hoping to have more before applying.

See another comment above for more details regarding what non-clinical involved.

 

[Orsted]

Aside, sounds a lot like

All the Light We Cannot See — Anthony Doerr

www.anthonydoerr.com

How to Engineer a Health Professional Career | SDN

NOTE: In this article, “engineering” can refer to quantitative analytical subjects like physics, mathematics, computer science, or finance/economics, but

www.studentdoctor.net

Sounds interesting how you use (may have used) your "innovation center" to produce personalized prototypes. Amazing what 3D printers can do now (and I'm sure you built more things than the 3D printers). Several universities I know have done this over the last decade to craft accessories or assistive devices for disabled children or individuals (veterans). The center I know also has an incubator for non-profit and for-profits. I'm mentioning, I understand what you're doing and its impact, and it's been argued in front of adcoms before.

You're doing great things as an engineer. You can also argue that being a civil engineer involves service orientation with the logic you present (you can build accessibility ramps or lifts). It fits the bill if you want to pursue a career as a professional engineer, though. Unfortunately, that's not showing a deep appreciation or alignment with service orientation for health care providers. You cannot always engineer your way to relieve patient's suffering. (In other words, to address "if it's not enough...," I can say from my experience it isn't. And I have an engineering background.

There are many more engineering applicants like you who have done service orientation activities. Few have had the impact you have with engineering solutions to problems. I would suggest focusing on the schools that would appreciate it if you insist on applying this cycle. You should know which schools have strong engineering programs where you may fit in (WashU especially, Carle, TxA&M EnMed, AzSU when it opens, Duke, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, CWRU/CCLCM). As an in-state Ohio applicant, you will also have an advantage with your in-state public options (Cincinnati, Ohio State, OUHCOM DO).

Q&A with Carle Illinois College of Medicine: Developing Innovation and Entrepreneurship as Health Professionals | SDN

In a previous article, I discussed the advantages engineering-trained applicants bring to the health professions. For this article, we asked the

www.studentdoctor.net

I appreciate the perspective. Was definitely trying to cater my school list to these things. Will see if I get any bites this cycle, but if not then I at least know what I’ll need to hammer over the next year or so.